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Sarries v Exeter
maynas (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 18:25
What is it with the fixturelists ? The best two teams in the Premiership last met during the Autumn internations, when both were short of their best players, and now meet up for the return fixture during the 6 Nations. Can you imagine any other sport (or indeed form of entertainment) with a large paying public that would allow this to happen?

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Rupes (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 18:38
Yes. In football, international friendlies often take place without the "best" players.

They have a large paying public, plus are put in at times when other matches are taking place.

If you're asking whether a sport should have top level action on the same day as an international match, then that's different and I'll need to think a bit longer.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
maynas (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 18:49
In Football they suspend Premiership activity when there are international games at the weekend??
The fact that some good players don't play because they are "injured" is neither here or there



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/01/2018 18:49 by maynas.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
The Bard (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 19:12
County cricket?

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 19:20
Quote:
The Bard
County cricket?

I think you'll find the quote was in relation to "any kind of entertainment"! smiling smiley

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
18 January, 2018 19:50
The top 2 tiers of English football have a break when internationals are on. So championship as well as the premier league.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
VR1997 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 07:33
Exeter would have been thrilled when they saw when they were playing us.

They will only lose 2/3/4 players and we have (autumn) and could have 2/3rd's of our team missing.

Exeter will of course suffer in the coming seasons as their fringe Internationals progress.
Quins are another team that suffers enormously.

Still unfair on all clubs who contribute many players to the International window (which is getting bigger).

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
primavesi (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 08:23
That is why the playoffs system, despite all the moaning, is actually a fair system.


The only way I can see to avoid these clashes would be to cut the premiership to 10 teams but with 13 teams having a share in the league that is never going to happen.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 08:46
Sorry Primavesi, I dont think the play offs are going to achieve their objective this season.
The play off system does not work if the league is so tight that there are only a few points between being in top 4 and 6th. Like this season.....

Lose two games in the international windows and find yourself not qualifying for the play offs. That's not fair

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
primavesi (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 08:52
Not perfect for sure, but better than not having it. If you come 5th or 6th in the league after a whole season you are probably not the best team in the league and you must have lost some non international window games in the process.

You could fix that problem you mention by having a wild card round between 3rd to 6th like in NFL but that would just mean more games which is the last thing we need.

A 10 team premiership would of course negate all these problems.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 09:27
You could also try & sort fixtures so players of 4 teams with most representatives will play each other during AIís & return fixtures during 6N
We always play Chiefs during international window (this season twice) & always Gloucester away!



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
The Bard (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 10:10
Playing games for reduced points during international breaks is another option

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Convex Hull (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 10:23
It is a farce, and one of the three reasons that I don't have a season ticket anymore.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Rupes (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 11:04
So solve this riddle:

The clubs know that the Prem is a decent product, so want to keep it on tv as long as possible with no mid-season breaks.

The clubs are allegedly concerned about player welfare, but want to make the season longer.

The vast majority of the players want to play international and Lions Rugby.

There are existing contracts in place with sponsors and broadcasters for many seasons.

Across the season, the league has to be fair to all. Not just fair to some for a few weeks. Otherwise, the league loses integrity and it becomes a selective showcase, which the RFU and Premiership Rugby should never sanction.

It's not all about Saracens. If, deemed a top fixture, Saracens vs Exeter is moved to when both teams supposedly have full squads available, how is that fair on Gloucester vs Sale?

How do we know that, if Saracens vs Exeter was played when full squads were meant to be available, injuries and loss of form wouldn't rob both teams of lots of players?



What to do?! And so the issues of sports administration in the real world rumble on....

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 11:12
As far as I can see the last time we played Exeter with a full strength team was the 2016 Premiership final.

The way the fixtures are arranged at the moment totally rejects the existence of the AIs and the 6N and who plays in them. It really wouldn't be that difficult to do.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 11:44
Not sure I agree Rupes. Due to under representation of Glos and Sale in the international windows it would not really impact them when they played their fixtures. Its completely fair to play the game anytime in the season.

We on the other hand could have 12 players on international duty which makes a bit of a difference. The idea of the play offs was to take into account a small number of players missing but the way our players are putting their hands up for international selection amongst all the 6N's teams we are starting to creak a little.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Rupes (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 12:27
I take the point, I think it's actually fairly unsolvable until you re-organise the world calendar and we all know how far off that is.

I'm just uncomfortable with the principle of moving fixtures for one / two / three clubs and not others.

For example, how do you judge the threshold of how many players will be away, before you say "we need to move a fixture"? And how can you pre-empt player selection for internationals when the fixtures come out?

Take that to its end, how do you then judge the value of player X to a club over player Y? So if a club only has 1 player selected, but he's of huge value to them, is it fair that they have to play without him?

Really tricky problem and, as I've said above, I don't think you can resolve it properly and keep all parties happy, until you solve the world calendar.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
primavesi (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 12:35
What about some kind of seeding system then, based on the previous season or seasons, to ensure that top seeds do not play each other during the window. This would have the added bonus of evening up the league a bit and reducing thrashings, as the lower seeded teams would play the big teams when they were without their top players.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 12:56
Quote:
primavesi
What about some kind of seeding system then, based on the previous season or seasons, to ensure that top seeds do not play each other during the window. This would have the added bonus of evening up the league a bit and reducing thrashings, as the lower seeded teams would play the big teams when they were without their top players.

This is pretty much along the lines I was thinking of. I agree with Rupes that you have to remove subjectivity from any formula but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Something along the lines of you don't play anyone within X league positions above you at the end of the previous regular season during the international windows. Fairer to to the teams with lots of internationals of all countries and gives a shot to lower placed teams as well.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
VR1997 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 13:36
Rupes has said it in 2 words 'World Calendar'.

Until that is sorted we will be having these discussions (as we have in the past) every season.

Fate has dealt us a poorer hand this season clubwise with injuries to major players and the massive progress of our players who are now automatic International choices.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 15:45
Well we just have to deal with don't we we cannot pick and choose fixtures, o believe one year we were moaning we had tigers at Welford road during the AIs or 6N an we put 50 points past them that day... I'm sure we can deal with it it's part and parcel of being successful

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
boomer! (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 17:30
To date I have been to all of our games at Sandy Park, but with up to 10 of our starting XV off on 6N duty I won't this year. Pity because I do like the Chiefs supporters, you'll always have a good craic with them; but 440 mile round trip is a long way to go to watch our decimated team on a hiding to nothing against that Exeter machine.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
The Bard (IP Logged)
19 January, 2018 17:37
What you certainly can do with the calendar is make sure you donít play the same team in both international periods. That is surely a no-brainier!

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 01:18
Quote:
VR1997
Rupes has said it in 2 words 'World Calendar'.
Until that is sorted we will be having these discussions (as we have in the past) every season.

The World calendar is certainly one of the problems. It's definitely not the only one though. I don't believe there is one single solution, rather a series of measures which together improve the situation; resolving it entirely is going to be a tall order but we can certainly make steps in the right direction without a change in the world calendar.

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 08:35
Agree Gazzafez. Too many moving parts to be solved easily.

In no particular order; scrap the LV, Summer International tours to be Saxons ones (ie developmental both for players and coaches no 31 players) more emphasis on the A league, reduce the Premiership to ten teams and likewise the Championship. Invest in the Championship to make it a professional league like the French D2. Use the extra time freed up to ensure that first team rugby isn't played on the same weekend as Internationals.

Simple ... if only smiling smiley

 
Re: Sarries v Exeter
maynas (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 10:10
Quote:
The Bard
What you certainly can do with the calendar is make sure you donít play the same team in both international periods. That is surely a no-brainier!

Yes this should be a simple fix and was partly my point starting this thread. Totally robs the 2 legs of any balance and real enjoyment for the fans.
I also think the 6 Nations is too long, donít remember rest weekends in the past and thereís none in the World Cup, they should definitely cut that out.
Finally do we really need 6 Nations ? Italy pretty useless most years, would have better games versus Georgia, Romania etc. Cut it to 5 and have automatic promotion/relegation to the next tier down. That would make the wooden spoon match really worth seeing!
I know, wont happen, turkeys for Xmas etc but I also donít we the current model as sustainable.


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