Saracens

Talk in the pub yesterday was whether we would ever see Farrell play at 12 for Sarries as well as England on a regular basis?

Colours to the mast I would prefer Farrell playing 10 for England but I do think that his overall game is benefitting from him playing at 12 for England or maybe he's just showing his quality by rising to the challenge?

That said at the point at which Barritt goes I could see advantages in having at least the option of Farrell at 12. Ofc you could play Lozo there but not sure whether you'd want him organising the defensive line?

Anyway. Thoughts for a rainy monday afternoon

It could be a good option.... but will we benefit from having 3 play makers on the park? OF.AG and AL?
With England it's just the 2 OF and GF...

Would it confuse things?

I'd keep him as 10 with the option of moving to 12 if needed however we do need to be bringing on a permanent replacement for BB at sometime to make the current set up continue...and that is no mean feat..

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It's more likely Farrell will stay 10 and Loz play at 12 in my view.

I'd only ever play Faz at 12 if George Ford was at 10.. and as Ford will probs never play for Sarries I'd expect Faz still to be 10 and Loz more at 12 as someone mentioned earlier also Nick Tompkins will eventually step in at 12 also in the next few years

As has been said, I would think that we could happily have two playmakers at 10 & 12, but I think it might be more suited to having Liam at 15 rather than Goodey running into the line. It seemed to work well for the Lions.

Our hand may be forced:

BB 32 at the start of next season. Our irreplaceable rock.
MB 34 silky skills, effortless style, excellent defence, decent kicker! ageing
DT 29 in September, exciting but injury prone
NT 23 excellent prospect, is he suited to the attritional nature of playing 12?
AL 25 more a 10/15, 13 at a push, 12 if needed from bench for me

Dom Morris impressed me for Storm against Glaws but even before he went off injured I was questioning whether he is built strong enough for the centres.

Faz is proving me wrong with England but the question I have is do we want our star playmaker to be so exposed to the physicality demanded at 12? Look around the league at the injuries and I'd suggest 12 leads a disturbingly high list. And whilst neither he nor Brad have top end pace, Brad does seem to have decent pace on the turn and over the first 5 yards.

Edits to remove an unplanned smiley!

Perhaps a Faz/Loz/Sanjay combo is an option, or a plan B, for when Alex is unavailable, but not full time for me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 19/02/2018 15:51 by Sara'sman.

I think we may need to bring in a 12 as it is a pivotal part of our defensive game and we don't seem to have a ready made replacement for BB..

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I personally think Loz's best position is 12. Long term I'd like to see Faz at 10 with Loz outside him (but only when BB retires which I still refuse to believe will ever happen)

Quote:

Matty Sarrie
I personally think Loz's best position is 12. Long term I'd like to see Faz at 10 with Loz outside him (but only when BB retires which I still refuse to believe will ever happen)

Unfortunately that is inevitable hopefully not for another season or two yet though

The long-term strategy for replacing Brad is one of the more interesting decisions McCall and co will have to make, given that Brad's been a mainstay for 10 years and probably our MVP for 5.

If we want to replace like for like we'd have to buy quite big - some decent (if ambitious) options out there - Teo, Danty, Serfontein, Henshaw, Laumape

If we want to move to a 2nd 5/8 approach then (largely thanks to England) we basically have a ready made one in Loz/Faz. Then your 13 becomes very important defensively, like JJ for England, so either you buy in, you trust Nick to step up or you trust Duncan to stay fit.

Whilst I think Faz is getting better all the time at 12, I'd still much rather see him at 10 for both England and Saracens.

Loz could definitely be the answer at 12 going forward.

Agree with a lot of what has been said here. 10 is the key position on a rugby pitch and to keep a world class fly half like Owen out of that position you need a seriously good alternative (such as Ford, Sexton, Hodgeson etc) and then they compliment each other brilliantly with often spectacular results. But as it is unlikely that we will be bringing in a truly world class fly half (as we already have one) I think we should keep him at 10 and start looking to fill Brad´s seriously big boots at 12. Maybe that is Loz, although I think that would still leave us a player short.

this is where tom griffiths's injury this year was really disapointing as i was hoping for him to get some game time in the AW.... always thought he could really make 12 his own but we do have RBT in the Acad who is shining...

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Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

RBT?

Presumably - Ruben Bird Tulloch, he looked good in the AW Cup

Lots of interesting views. I also view this through the prism of Malins hopefully coming through into the equation. The situation with Goode also becomes interesting as a second playmaker in the centres might lend weight to a different sort of attacking fullback?

Bosch I'd guess is in the last season of his contract and whilst I really want to see Taylor with Sarries for many seasons I do worry about how often he has taken knocks.

What I'd really like is for us to be increasingly flexible tactically including mixing things up with Williams or even Lozo at fullback. I think we have the players to be able to do that (with a bit of judicious recruiting as spaces open up in the centres)

One other thing that feels apparent is we are starting to assemble some very quick backs. Spencer, Lozo, Lewington all pretty rapid with Tompkins and Williams also no slow pokes

Nick T deserves a chance. It is not written in stone that 12 has to run the defence. Faz could probably do that.

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Disagree. Fly-half isn't a position to run defence from.

Quote:

OldMarovian
Disagree. Fly-half isn't a position to run defence from.

In most circumstances, I would agree. It seems to me that, given the pace at which Faz has developed over the last few seasons, he may be able to succeed without impairing his other skills.

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He' seems to rise to any challenge set but I think it would be difficult and place an unnecessary burden on him. Also good as he is I don't want to be too dependant on him. Remember he's not with the team about half the season!

Fair point! Tompkins to deputise in defence management

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Farrell is a 10. Always has been his best position and one of the main reasons we are top of the pile in Europe.

This 12 thing has come from EJ and his inability to drop Ford.

If Faz was to play 12 for us you would need Beauden Barrett at 10 for it to be any better than it is today!

Have to say Wayoutwest I used to be 100% with that view but know I am a little less certain.

I don't expect anything other than seeing Farrell return to flyhalf for us but it is fun to hypothesise.