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Jock Shock
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:39
Well who'd a thought it?
Scotland deserved that but England were pretty rubbish.
Back row in particular were way off the mark. Simmonds has overtaken Hughes in the pecking order. Care and Brown both had poor games IMHO.
Door is wide open for Ireland now that England didn't even manage an LBP.

 
Re: Jock Shock
Rolls (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:55
I thought Robshaw had a good game, Hughes didn’t. Ford,Brown and Care indifferent. All in all the Scots really played like they wanted it, the crowd was like a couple of extra players. Our penalty count was awful, Lawes gave away a couple of shockers, Underhill’s yellow a nightmare. A couple of huge, tight decisions went against us, such is life. Onward and upward.

 
Re: Jock Shock
villagesarrie (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:02
Scotland definitely deserved that. Robshaw was very good,thought the decision to put Hughes in the starting line up backfired and really we were poor, out thought and out muscled. Oh well, just as long as we beat Tiggs tomorrow,

 
Re: Jock Shock
PhillFez (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:04
Hughes wasn't match fit in terms of awareness let alone around the pitch.


Discipline poor, Lawes extremely dumb to kick out of the ruck let alone out of the No.9 hands
Scotland were up for it and deserved it

 
Re: Jock Shock
The Bard (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:08
Lack of intensity in the first half cost us dear. Certainly not Nigel’s finest game; how he could penalise Launchbury but then award Scotland penalties when they haven’t released and also off their feet.
For England the usual ‘suspects ‘ failed to deliver and questions over their future will get louder.
Maitland looked very sharp and solid for Scotland

 
Re: Jock Shock
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:43
The back row failed to perform as a unit. The work at the breakdown was the poorest seen from England in a long time - including the number of turnovers conceded. That's not including the stupid penalties. The lack of intensity was apparent for all to see. Stats are there to see.
Check out the other forums for a non-partizan view; the same names crop up all the time.

 
Re: Jock Shock
vap (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:50
Back row is the biggest problem. So many turnovers. And it happens against so many teams. But it's not very surprising when we are playing the same not really a 7 as we played at the last world cup, and a 4 at 6.
Billy is so good that he hides the lack of anyone else when he plays. But when he's not there the fatal weakness is clear to see. To everyone except anyone in the England camp who dare not speak ill of the coach.

 
Re: Jock Shock
King Zak (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 20:25
Fantastic atmosphere at Murrayfield and thoroughly deserved win for Scotland Two questions though; how did Russell get MotM ahead of Barclay and what did Faz do in the tunnel pre-game???

Oh,bonus question; Briown,Hartley,Hughes - why???



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: Jock Shock
ninjafez (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 09:04
Quote:
King Zak
Fantastic atmosphere at Murrayfield and thoroughly deserved win for Scotland Two questions though; how did Russell get MotM ahead of Barclay and what did Faz do in the tunnel pre-game???
Oh,bonus question; Briown,Hartley,Hughes - why???


Braclay was absolutely outstanding yesterday.. thought Scotland got away with a number of hands on the ground in the first half



Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

 
Re: Jock Shock
Coughie (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 09:45
The England camp know perfectly well what the risks are of playing without a specialist 7. It doesn't help however, when the specialist 7 then comes on and gets himself yellow-carded at a crucial time of the match.

Lack of collective intelligence was the problem with England IMHO. Vastly pedestrian and predictable in attack.

The forwards trained with Georgia, maybe the backs need to train with Llanelli?



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

 
Re: Jock Shock
Innings (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:03
If rumour is right, England left their energy drained on the training pitch at Pennyhill Park on Wednesday.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Jock Shock
maynas (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:19
Quote:
Innings
If rumour is right, England left their energy drained on the training pitch at Pennyhill Park on Wednesday.

Could be, they played like a team that was tired or unfit. Hughes looked back too soon. Lawes in wrong position and bain dead. Underhill a shocker, so unnecessary. May seemed under orders to kick not run. General lack of passion. Hope they are suitably humbled as they can play s much better than this.

 
Re: Jock Shock
Rolls (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:27
If the rumour of our players being knackered after Pennyhill Park is true then our coaches seriously need to have a good look at the training regime. EJ says the team is 40% fitter than when he took over. Really? Were we that unfit before? Yesterday on the pitch the Scots ran rings round us, we were the ones that looked tired, lacklustre and jaded. I think England has not been quite as good as they like to think in spite of the impressive results stats, yesterday we were truly found wanting, will EJ change anything? I doubt it, he has an idea and sticks with it, I hope we get a few of our boys back for the Chiefs game, see you there.

 
Re: Jock Shock
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:30
Feel some of the talk about Hughes is a touch unfair.

If you get an off bottle of milk you blame the dairy not the milk. Poor by Jones who has form for rushing back "essential" players; Billy, Maro, Mako, Kruis, etc

I thought the pack looked lethargic rather than not up for it but I guess only the players really know.

 
Re: Jock Shock
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:57
You cannot possibly blame a training regime for losing a match.... That's a ridiculous excuse sorry

 
Re: Jock Shock
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 12:39
Also notice that England U20 lost to Scotland as well, although the women saved England from a complete whitewash with a very convincing win.

 
Re: Jock Shock
John Tee (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 15:29
Quote:
Seany_Boy0511
You cannot possibly blame a training regime for losing a match.... That's a ridiculous excuse sorry

Seriously.....???

I hope you are joking. Recovery time is key...absolutely key.
If the tank is empty that is your best ever excuse.
The question should be why we lacked intensity at the start....and why the game was over by halftime.

If....if... they were overtrained to the point that that impacted into the game then someone needs a huge bollocking. The whole regime should answer for that....
Trainers, physios, conditioners...they should all know.

 
Re: Jock Shock
Innings (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:41
And what were the senior players, the ones who have to run the show on the day, saying to the coaches about the ridiculous notion that the right programme is a savage training day on the Wednesday, flying on Thursday and playing the most pumped-up team in the programme on the Sunday?



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Jock Shock
F-F-F-FEZ (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 20:55
I, like many of you it seems, have been discussing/ranting about this game. Things we said that went beyond individual critiques and staff responsibilities, which by now are thoroughly exhausted included;

- the path to glory is littered with momentary failures so look at the big picture, but;
- just because we've won 23/25 doesn't imply future similar outcomes (complacency)
- ditto regarding our Scotland stats in particular
- if England have the embarrassment of riches player-wise that we do, the proportionate lack of success is a management/selectors issue (from top down)
- central contracting
And it went on....
It's tough being a sports fan but it's even tougher going out there every "Saturday" and doing the business.

 
Re: Jock Shock
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 15:52
Quote:
Innings
And what were the senior players, the ones who have to run the show on the day, saying to the coaches about the ridiculous notion that the right programme is a savage training day on the Wednesday, flying on Thursday and playing the most pumped-up team in the programme on the Sunday?

What? England had to play Leicester too! smiling smiley


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