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Today
sarricen (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 17:07
Comfortably one of the worst performances Iíve seen by us in a long time. Yes, I know games like the Valentines Day Massacre were bad, but it felt like we put in effort then.

It feels like thereís no effort or desire out there today, Isieckwe, Brits and Burger withstanding

 
Re: Today
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:02
One of the worst performances by the crowd too sad smiley

Supporters. The clue is in the name. When a small group of Leicester supporters standing in front of the East stand (including one absolute kn0b) can make more noise than the East stand itself then we need to take a look at ourselves too IMO.

edit.
I get that I criticise players and coaches too but not at the game. Also this leaving early rubbish annoys me too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/02/2018 19:08 by OldMarovian.

 
Re: Today
RustySword (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:11
Let the judging begin. Players, coaches, supporters, sack the whole useless lot of 'em.

And get that big pot out of reception and DHL it to Clermont Ferrand, we obviously don't deserve it.

 
Re: Today
vap (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:17
Surely, OM, crowd and team feed off each other? We started out all positive, and were ok even after a couple of converted tries, but after about the 50th turnover we sort of gave up being quite such positive supporters. Our team didn't seem to care, and they were being paid to be there while we.............

 
Re: Today
The Bard (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:19
Clermont are in absolute free fall since they beat us, they lost at home to oyonnax yesterday and relegation is not impossible!
Crowd were flat, but you do need something the feed from!

 
Re: Today
london pride (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:29
I get that I criticise players and coaches too but not at the game.
[code]


[/code]
But you can't expect the supporters not to criticise on a performance that was well below par,They can't applaud a performance like that, and other than sit in silence there is very little else they can do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/02/2018 19:30 by london pride.

 
Re: Today
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:31
Quote:
vap
Surely, OM, crowd and team feed off each other? We started out all positive, and were ok even after a couple of converted tries, but after about the 50th turnover we sort of gave up being quite such positive supporters.

I get that but surely it's when its not going well (for whatever reason) they need the extra support. Even if I'm not really feeling it shouting Sarries, Sarries at the top of my lungs a couple of times when we have an attacking or defensive set piece cost nothing.

Just felt flat today even early on. Everyone supports in their own way I just wish we could have encouraged them a bit more today.

 
Re: Today
Innings (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 19:36
Asking the crowd to makes some noise and get some atmosphere does depend on seeing something worth the noise. That performance was so bad that it made Tigers, who were pretty dire, look excellent. I can only assume that Sarries and England were all suffering from a collective brain-fart over this weekend.

Ir would be simplistic to name-check anyone, but really, what can you hope for when practically every player was guilty of simply abandoning the ball, in contact, in turnovers, dropping it, failing to compete for loose ball and usually coming off worst in the contest in the air? As for the same player butchering tries, two minutes apart, when one was an 85% probability of a score and the other a 100% certainty for any professional winger - don't start on that.

There were three bright spots. Scott Spurling is not everyone's favourite player, but today he was about our most successful carrier. Max Malins showed that he is a brighter prospect than perhaps we'd though hitherto. The tempo and directness than he brought to the game were rewarded by his two tries, his only two chances, whereas the rest of the team could still be playing, for all the probability of anyone else scoring. Tom Whiteley should have been on an hour earlier than he was. He was far more reliable, productive and creative than any other back, bar Malins.

Good Luck writing up that one JO'G.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Today
Rolls (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 21:59
Agree with that. Our subs came on and really laid it down, Spurling, Malins, Whitely did great, Iím becoming more of a fan of Spurling by the game, he tries hard and carries the ball well, I hope we keep him going. As for the two tries missed in two minutes - no names, no pack drill - well, heís better off away and good luck to him, how you can be clear, over the line and still put it into touch well, search me, Wyles, Maitland,Ashton and Strettle would have scored EVERY time. Some of our starters were great, but omg, some werenít. As for getting the crowd behind you, some of it must come from the teamís performance, we were there, we paid our money, it should work both ways. Onwards and upwards.

 
Re: Today
ultrasarrie (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 22:58
We were really poor today. The players talk about forgiving skill errors but not accepting a lack of effort but quite frankly there was a severe lack of drive, hunger and want throughout that game - Earle didn't even try to tackle Tuilangi as he neared the try line, and was joking with Jordan Murphy about his botched try - does he not care anymore? Linespeed was non existent at times and in general we were just too passive in D.As alluded to above some of the youngsters who came off the bench at the end completely changed that, and we looked dangerous in the last 15.

We were only two really basic handling errors away from winning that game. If Earle puts the ball down and Segun catches it in the last play that's +10 plus two potential conversions. A real shame because Exeter managed a try in the last minute of their game v saints to win, so if we don't beat them next week (which I don't think we will) then the gap between 1st and 2nd will widen and we will most probably have to play wasps either home or away in the semi - I would much rather play Gloucester/Leicester.

The crowd was pathetic. Genuinely awful. Some of the most empty and half hearted chanting of 'Sarries' I have ever heard - If you're going to shout, you may as well belt it out. Be proud of the team you support. We hear all the time about the lift it gives the players so the attitude of 'it doesn't do anything' is quite simply wrong. I know the performance didn't help but it really should be our job as fans to try and spark a change - otherwise there is no home advantage. For vast swathes of that match I could hear everything the players were saying, and even Mark McCall shouting from his box it was that bad. We really do need to improve the atmosphere in the stadium and generate noise from all 4 stands not just the east and north stands!!

 
Re: Today
nicsue (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 23:19
I felt that many of the England players yesterday and Sarries today just looked plain tired. The chap next to me reckoned it was the cold got to them.
As for support - the new chaps behind us just didn't stop chatting all game - drove me bonkers. Was a very stop start game - must have been difficult for the players to concentrate, it certainly was for us. Loved it when the young ones came on - you could see they were used to playing together.
Not hopeful for next week.

 
Re: Today
Coughie (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 23:20






~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

 
Re: Today
sarricen (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 05:16
First time Iíve seen a sarries coach question to commitment of players. Says it all really. We lost almost every collision. Handling was a disgrace

 
Re: Today
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 08:57
Yesterday was terrible - it wasn't until Malins came on and Loz went to 13 that we started running around a bit.

Earle's two misses are inexcusable to be honest, but he'll know that.

Think Malins may be well be due a start next week. Loz should play in the centres because if he doesn't we look so one paced.

 
Re: Today
GerryK (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 08:57
It very much felt like watching the England game again, very similar errors all the way through

 
Re: Today
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 09:00
Quote:
OldMarovian
One of the worst performances by the crowd too sad smiley
Supporters. The clue is in the name. When a small group of Leicester supporters standing in front of the East stand (including one absolute kn0b) can make more noise than the East stand itself then we need to take a look at ourselves too IMO.

edit.
I get that I criticise players and coaches too but not at the game. Also this leaving early rubbish annoys me too.


Well someone thinks the support was good...no outstanding .... perhaps you sit in a quiet section..


From Nick Isiekwe..via Twitter...

Not the result we wanted today but so happy for @max_malins7 getting two tries and @RotimiSegun for the debut! Support was outstanding as always! we go again next week 🙏



SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
Help for Heroes

 
Re: Today
beshocked (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 09:03
ultrasarrie agree

Earle looks like he's given up now he's signed for Quins.

Butchered 2 finishes and shirking tackles. Very disappointing.

Injuries to Clark and Vailanu didn't help.


Just think Sarries are lacking a bit of carrying power.

Burger worked hard but offered little go forward.


Malins was at least a highlight. His first try was excellent, beating 4 men in close quarters like that. 2nd try wasn't bad either!

 
Re: Today
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 09:06
Looking at it again all credit to Tigers!

Watch how when we attacked they seemed to know exactly who would take the ball into contact and had 3 players involved. No ground made, slow ball. So we box kick as we have run out of ideas, the box kick is either too long or there is no chase. Tigers win the ball, gain quick ball and move it around the park, find the gaps, score trys.

What it needed was for someone to see what was going on and change the play. Even just kicking for touch rather than box kicking would have been better and slowed Tigers down.

Ah well there is always the next game....

 
Re: Today
Adey (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 09:45
Agreed that Tigers deserve more credit than theyíve been given. They worked very hard when they had the ball and executed their game plan of extended rests for their forwards perfectly.

Two good tries for Malins but as predicted thereís now the Ďhe must start the next match/ superstar in the makingí brigade out in force. He came on against a tired Tigers team towards the end of the match. Heís definitely a prospect but letís not throw him under the bus straight away, give him more time.

Two butchered scores in two minutes. I donít suppose itís anything to do with Earle signing for Quins. Heís just not a natural finisher or generally up to it. Ashton, Maitland, Strettle and Wyles all have that instinct that they see a gap and they score. Whether itís a clean pair of heels through the smallest gap or a ridiculous spin in mid air, double jointed risking injury movement to get the ball down, they get the down! Nathan doesnít. In the coaches we trust...

Letís not worry to much. A team missing so many current internationals along with injuries to Billy and Rhodes, we were always going to struggle.

 
Re: Today
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 09:58
I've been a season ticket holder for 19 of the last 20 years and I left 15 mins early, something I've never done before. It was dire yesterday, particularly the first half. The crowd feeds off effort and intensity, that's the bare minimum requirement of the team, and there was none.

 
Re: Today
TimH (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 10:31
Wasn't even the worst performance of the season - any one remember Clermont in the snow?

This was a blip. A blip imposed by international window and painful injury list.

End of. Move on.

 
Re: Today
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 10:35
Quote:
GerryK
It very much felt like watching the England game again, very similar errors all the way through

Our group were all saying exactly that.

I watched the second half on the recording last night. The two failed attempts by Nathan do not make good viewing when you see it in detail at all.

The two tries by Max M were quite astonishing. There's clearly an option there if Loz plays as well so we could rest Brad or Cello.

However - as I see it there is only one game to go against Chiefs, so it will be all hands to the pumps before a three week break and the cavalry return.

 
Re: Today
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:58
Quote:
TimH
Wasn't even the worst performance of the season - any one remember Clermont in the snow?

Ironically one of the things that made that game bearable for me was the noise and "atmosphere" made by the Clermont supporters. It also made me chuckle seeing suitcases in the stand, that's certainly one way to get your sandwiches and thermos past security.

Agree with the general view that the performance and even gameplan was very similar, with similar issues as a result to the England defeat. Good as Leicester were they basically came with a gun and we spent 70 minutes giving them ammunition.

 
Re: Today
beshocked (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:23
Quote:
Adey
Agreed that Tigers deserve more credit than theyíve been given. They worked very hard when they had the ball and executed their game plan of extended rests for their forwards perfectly.
Two good tries for Malins but as predicted thereís now the Ďhe must start the next match/ superstar in the makingí brigade out in force. He came on against a tired Tigers team towards the end of the match. Heís definitely a prospect but letís not throw him under the bus straight away, give him more time.

Two butchered scores in two minutes. I donít suppose itís anything to do with Earle signing for Quins. Heís just not a natural finisher or generally up to it. Ashton, Maitland, Strettle and Wyles all have that instinct that they see a gap and they score. Whether itís a clean pair of heels through the smallest gap or a ridiculous spin in mid air, double jointed risking injury movement to get the ball down, they get the down! Nathan doesnít. In the coaches we trust...

Letís not worry to much. A team missing so many current internationals along with injuries to Billy and Rhodes, we were always going to struggle.

Well youngsters do need game time to thrive and Malins looks like a quality prospect.

It might have been 2 tries vs a tiring Tigers but they weren't walk ins.

Very little space to work with.

Malins showed more attacking ability in his small cameo than the entire rest of the team did in 80 minutes.

 
Re: Today
Neville (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:35
It wasn't great yesterday apart form the last 15.

If wed come away with a bonus point it would have been a travesty as Tigers were comprehensively better than us, until the end.


For me the problem was at 9 where Ben had a mare. It happens . Lets move on and play like we know we can against Chiefs


We will need to, or else well be beasted again!

 
Re: Today
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:50
Well it was disappointing... I do not agree with anyone leaving early... Would you buy a theatre ticket to a west end show and then walk out early? Very unlikely....

That aside, I believe some ( not all) at Allianz Park have only known success so when on the very odd occasion Sarries have a shocker (which happens in any sport) they do not know how to accept that.. there was a time when we would never get close to Leicester Tigers home or away, Malins is superb and has a bright future as long as we can keep him, it Nathan Earle doesn't care about Sarries then the coaches wouldn't play him, yes he definitely should have scored at least one of those tries, but just because he didn't doesn't mean he doesn't care... Rustysword not sure what your on but asking to sack our most successful coaching team is pure stupidness and If you're trying to be ironic it certainly hasn't come across that way.

The atmosphere was not brilliant but as usual the north and east stand lead by example and hopefully it carries on for the rest of the season.

It's a blip, we cannot win every game but in the words of Brian Ferry let's stick together... And re group and show chiefs next week just what we are capable of

 
Re: Today
VR1997 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:52
I went to the game yesterday hoping we would get a win but felt last week only showed that we defended well with a bit of class from Liam, nothing else. I was very nervous.
Arriving at the ground early it was evident that the Olympic bar area was very flat and lacking in noise and atmosphere, even pre match warming up seemed flat.

Being put on the back foot early and stoppages mean't we got no rhythm to the game.Tigers were much bigger, more aggressive and dominated the first 50 minutes. Tigers 7 points in the second half were gifted by a poor pass, fumble and no chase all in a split second. Added to the non tries we could and should have come away with undeserved point/points.

However our team consisted of a mainly second/third choice players, only 2/3 names om the team sheet were our number one players. none on the bench would have been in our first choice squad (IMO).

The youngsters came on and did well yesterday but I agree with Adey let's not push them to fast and starting a game is different from playing the last 15 minutes.

But this is a team sport and nothing is guaranteed. Who would have thought Worcester would beat Exeter at Sandy Park and the yesterday lose to London Irish. Wigan beating Manchester City and many more.

As for players looking tired Mark has said that at this time of the year they don't do a lot of physical work during match weeks. England players have had 3 weekends off in the last 6 weeks so I believe tiredness plays a very small reason for poor performances

Lets get through next week with no more injuries and go full steam ahead from Quins onwards. We need Billy, Vincent, Mike, Christopher, Will, Sione and Calum back but that may not happen with some.

We must remember and feel proud that with a full strength first 23 we are by far the best team in England and Europe.

Go Sarries

 
Re: Today
Barty II (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 14:06
Quote:
Seany_Boy0511
Rustysword not sure what your on but asking to sack our most successful coaching team is pure stupidness and If you're trying to be ironic it certainly hasn't come across that way.

Seany, I reckon your sarcasm-o-meter might need fresh batteries...

 
Re: Today
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:28
Sometimes these little quips just waft right over your head ................and away. It probably needed a little smiley(Sm161)(just to make sure there was no waft(Sm124)).

 
Re: Today
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 18:23
Quote:
Seany_Boy0511
That aside, I believe some ( not all) at Allianz Park have only known success so when on the very odd occasion Sarries have a shocker (which happens in any sport) they do not know how to accept that.. there was a time when we would never get close to Leicester Tigers home or away,


And then there are plenty of us who remember shivering away at Bramley Road, or having games at Enfield abandoned for a frozen pitch or cheering Lynagh's drop goal vs Newcastle at Vicarage Road etc etc.

You're right, once upon a time we were really crap. I remember it.

But we're not@#$%&now. I don't think it is wrong to hold these players to a different standard to those we held some of those in the 00s to. I expect more from the team we put out yesterday than the team we put out and drew with Leicester at home in 2003.

>> pint for anyone who can correctly name the team that day. Final score was 19-19.

 
Re: Today
Innings (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 13:57
The team that day was Saracens, and I claim my pint. Perhaps you could add a second pint to anyone who can name the Saracens players that day.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Today
Rupes (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 17:16
Just a thought - over the past 2/3 seasons, when the internationals have been away / injured, the club has made a point of saying that it's one squad, no-one is a first team / second team etc...

...and the results during those periods generally endorsed that view. Winning the AW Cup, for example.

So now that the squad is not winning during those periods (and I include the 7 or 8 losses in a row during the Autumns), does that mean that the squad is not as strong as it was? I just get the feeling that those halcyon days of any player being able to rotate in/out with no effect on the team are over.

I may be wrong, but there is definitely a pattern forming.


Now, 2003 and the draw. Minus Google, let's start with Chesney, Hill, Sorrell, Bracken, they're the (allegedly) easy ones to get. Question marks: Haughton, Arasa, Little, Chuter, Flatman, Horan, Diprose, Grau, Cole, starting to struggle now...

 
Re: Today
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 17:53
I also think the standard and quality of opposition need to be taken into account as well the premiership is by far the most competitive which, is why England have such a good set of players to choose from, so for Sarries to have 6 or 7 in the squad is a fantastic achievement

 
Re: Today
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 18:34
Quote:
Rupes
Now, 2003 and the draw. Minus Google, let's start with Chesney, Hill, Sorrell, Bracken, they're the (allegedly) easy ones to get. Question marks: Haughton, Arasa, Little, Chuter, Flatman, Horan, Diprose, Grau, Cole, starting to struggle now...


Of the easy ones: 2/4 (1 of the 2 was on the bench...)
Of the tricky ones: 1/8

This is a very tricky team to get...

 
Re: Today
The Bard (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 18:43
Craig Quinnell, Andy Goode, Castaignede, Ben Johnston, Lord Dan Lucan, Stuart Hopper, Adrian Winnann?

 
Re: Today
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 18:47
Shouldn't that be Hooper Bard?

 
Re: Today
vap (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 19:14
Corbus?
Huge Vyvian?

 
Re: Today
Adey (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 19:32
2003 we had Raiwalui, Tony Roques, Taine Randell, Cobus, Skirving, Robbie Russell and The Mighty Ches here. Off the wall forwards are probably that kiwi boxer prop, something Ross and wasnít there a ginger guy who kept popping up at Quins and Pests randomly afterwards? I think a young Don Barrell was lurking about to! Didnít Ben Russell fill in Martin Johnson in this game?!!!

Of the backs who can forget Thomas Castaignede! We probably had one chunk and one skillful player in the centres so any off Ben Johnston, Kevin Sorrell or Dan Harris. With Del on one wing theyíd be a rugby league convert on the other. Either The Chief Tevita Vaikano or Nathan McAvoy. Goodey was at 10 that year, was the back up Nicky Little? Bracken was too busy parading the World Cup with Hilda so it was probably the Welsh Canadian Morgan Williams.

 
Re: Today
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 20:31
This is a good effort- so far weíve got:

15. Castaignede
14. Haughton
13. Johnston
12. ????
11. McAvoy
10. Goode
9. Williams
1. ????
2. Ross
3. ????
4. Raiwalui
5. Ches
6. Roques
7. ????
8. Randell

16. ????
17. ????
18. ????
19. Skirving
20. ????
21. Sorrell
22. Winnan

 
Re: Today
chris87 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 20:52
Iím going to guess Christian Califano and Tim Horan. I would say Nick Walshe but I think he left in 01/02?

 
Re: Today
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:28
Cairns on the bench?
Luke Harbut (?) prop
Ear munching (allegedly) prop whose name I've forgotten

 
Re: Today
london pride (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:47
Kevin Yates?

 
Re: Today
The Bard (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:50
Nick Lloyd? Possibly Patrick Phibbs or Dan Ďpull yourself togetherí Curtain as back up scrum half?

 
Re: Today
The Bard (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:55
Robbie Russell? Mark Bartholomeus or Tom Shanklin at centre?

 
Re: Today
saracens4life (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 22:24
Tightheads... Ben Broster? Johnny Marsters?

Tom Ryder replacement lock?

Too early for Seymour at 7?


Quote:
Adey
wasnít there a ginger guy who kept popping up at Quins and Pests randomly afterwards?

I wanna say Kershaw?

 
Re: Today
Adey (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 22:42
Kershaw is a good shout! I was thinking of the other one. Croall?

 
Re: Today
Adey (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 22:48
Paul Bailey centre/wing at 12?

 
Re: Today
Waldo (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 06:30
Codling ? Didnt we have an Italian prop - I'm thinking Bergamasco but not sure that's right

 
Re: Today
villagesarrie (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 06:33
Dan Scarborough or was he a bit later?

 
Re: Today
saracens4life (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 07:44
Great shout Waldo - Bergamaschi I think. Forgotten about Codling too - he's an up and coming coach somewhere now isn't he?

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