rugbyunion
Latest News:
New Page 1

Whatever your views on Saracens, whether a Sarries fan or not, leave them here.

To leave a message on this board you must register. To register click HERE, it takes only a minute.
Non-rugby posts are welcome, but please prefix your subject header with "OT" or "Off Topic".


Thought for the Day:
FORGIVING US OUR SINS!

Latest: NORTHAMPTON SAINTS 27 : 38 SARACENS
Next: Saracens v Gloucester Rugby Sun 23rd Sep, 15.00 Allianz,
Audio: Click the link below. If it ain' there, it ain't on!
Upcoming TV: Saracens v Gloucester Rugby, Sun 23rd Sept BT Sport

BBC Online Rugby Union Commentaries

The Fish | Rugby Union News | Fez Boys | Saracens Fixtures | The SSA


International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
03 March, 2018 10:42
I've just looked at this (5 games so far) and thought I'd share:

20 Wasps
18 Worcester
17 Bath
16 Exeter
16 Leicester
15 Gloucester

10 Newcastle
10 Sale
10 Saracens
07 Irish
06 Northampton
00 Harlequins

I know not all agree but I think our backups have put in a great effort during these periods (including last week when execution not effort was lacking) and kept us in the mix despite injuries adding to the list of absentees. It could be worse as looking at how Quins have(n't) coped shows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2018 10:45 by Sara'sman.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
03 March, 2018 11:41
Would’nt fault our effort at all
Blatant facts are we provide the most players for international teams & have suffered most in last two seasons from injuries
My argument against play offs & for a restructuring of the season,is based on the fact that Wasps & Chiefs dont lose as many players to internationals & should really be able to secure the two top slots in premiership during this period
We are nearly always just chasing 3/4th position now as we are always only british team in europe cup....that said if we could achieve 2nd it would be a tremendous achievement!



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
03 March, 2018 12:08
And for further interest the non-IPP table (11 games):

43 Saracens
41 Exeter
36 Newcastle
32 Harlequins
30 Wasps
29 Gloucester

28 Bath
28 Sale
26 Leicester
25 Northampton
09 Worcester
08 Irish

The bad news - we play a "top four" side next, the week before Leinster!

 
Re: International Periods Points
Westrock (IP Logged)
03 March, 2018 14:04
Mitesh’s thoughts [posts.fanhero.com]

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
03 March, 2018 14:48
Very interesting
Playing teams who also have players away on international duty is an obvious statement though
Really on that basis we need to play Quins & Bath during these periods!
We’ve always played Chiefs over years during international periods & always play Gloucester on a friday night during AI’s



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 19:33
By popular demand the final IPP table now all six rounds have been completed:

24 Wasps
21 Leicester
20 Exeter
18 Worcester
17 Bath
17 Gloucester

15 Sale
14 Newcastle
10 Saracens
..7 Irish
..6 Northampton
..4 Harlequins

Too small a sample to draw firm conclusions (anyone tempted to look at the last couple of years?) but some evidence that Wasps and Exeter have made significant gains! Good job then that, according to the synchronised bleating on Pests' site, Messrs Jones, Gustard and Borthwick repeatedly help their former club by selecting/resting/releasing our players!

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 19:40
Their site is unbelievable!
Didnt take them long to forget their fines!! smiling smiley



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
AB (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 11:32
just fed up with how unfair the system is so stacked against us cos we have international players and playing matches during 6 Nations is completely unfair.

we are without doubt with all our players the best team in England and probably Europe.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 11:56
I started this thread because I am interested in the detail shown by the numbers but think we must be careful not to feel too sorry for ourselves! As Small says, what has really hit us hard has been the lengthy injuries to our top quality non-UK players who we expect to have available for these games - Rhodes, Koch, Tolofua, Skelton, etc.

Part of the problem is of our own making - we insist on hosting Quins in Spring so can only hope to play their depleted team at the Stoop during one of the two Autumn clashes. I do have an off the wall idea that would address this issue along with player welfare, expansion of the Premiership and a few other issues. When I'm feeling brave perghaps I'll share!

 
Re: International Periods Points
Westrock (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 13:42
AI and 6N alternate years???

 
Re: International Periods Points
Dave Berko (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 15:22
To get the ball rolling!!!!!!!

Whoever loses most players to International squads - all the other teams must nominate a number of 1st team players along with their internationals to equal that number who also won't play during 6N and AI's.

e.g. Sarries lose 9. Tigers lose 6 so must nominate another 3 and so on

 
Re: International Periods Points
JO'G (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 16:51
I believe that top 4 sides (who generally lose the most) should only play bottom 4 sides during the AI/6N periods

On average, the loss of players will be mitigated in some way by playing sides with lower playing capacity.

Top 4 matches between themselves should never happen in AI / 6N periods


based on previous years (plus promoted team = 12) positions

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 17:38
We were perhaps just as fortunate to play Pests both times outside the windows (given how few they lose due to Jones "favouring Sarries") as we were unfortunate to play Exeter twice inside. I'm not convinced of the merits of Dave's solution (those cunning Tiggs would nominate Youngs, Genge and Manu an academy winger) but see some merit in J'OG's, perhaps expanded to six to avoid both games v (Irish) being during the windows. Though might this then give an unfair advantage to the seventh team over the sixth in chasing European qualification? Sometimes random is fairest even though it isn't fair!

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 18:16
You just wonder how random fixtures really are?
If you look at Exeter game how often do we play them in november,or how often is second fixture in february or march?
I would suggest quite often!
I also think we play glaws on friday night regularly during AI’s
If there is a fixture computer maybe it needs rebooting! smiling smiley
(Conspiracy theory,I’m on wrong forum!)



European champions 2016 & 2017



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2018 18:18 by Highbury Saracen.

 
Re: International Periods Points
King Zak (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 22:04
How would you decide who the top and bottom four will be come February, when the fixtures are announced in July?



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: International Periods Points
bargepole (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 05:58
I just find it very ironic that the Wasps website is described as "synchronised bleating", followed by a string of posts from Sarries supporters which can only be described as ... er, synchronised bleating.

As far as I'm concerned, Robson and Cipriani are the best 9/10 combination in the premiership, and should be wearing those shirts for England (with Faz still at 12). The fact that EJ doesn't see it that way is good news for Wasps, as we have them available for all games (when not injured).

I think the other factor which is affecting Sarries, is the fact that there is a bit more of a gap between your first choice and your back up players, than there is at, say, Exe, Wasps or Leicester.



Wasps supporter and ex-player since 1964

 
Re: International Periods Points
mrangry (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 07:27
Why is nobody highlighting the other solution. No league games during International season(s) and follow Nigel's longstanding mantra of playing all league matches in a batch. World Rugby wants an international seasin, England doesn't Other countries see the benefits ofsuch a season, the RFU won't even consider it. If you want to blame aomebody for Sarries losing players points and prestige look no further than Twickenham.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 10:01
Quote:
bargepole
I just find it very ironic that the Wasps website is described as "synchronised bleating", followed by a string of posts from Sarries supporters which can only be described as ... er, synchronised bleating.
As far as I'm concerned, Robson and Cipriani are the best 9/10 combination in the premiership, and should be wearing those shirts for England (with Faz still at 12). The fact that EJ doesn't see it that way is good news for Wasps, as
we have them available for all games (when not injured).

I think the other factor which is affecting Sarries, is the fact that there is a bit more of a gap between your first choice and your back up players, than there is at, say, Exe, Wasps or Leicester.

Hi bargepole
Yes but it is bleating with some evidence to back it up!
I dont think there is a gap between our 1st & 2nd fifteens just that for last two years injuries have been at their worst during international periods!
Not having Skelton Rhodes Burger Koch & Vailanu would be a problem for any side
We seem to arrive at this point every season where you make a choice between europe & AP
We always have to work hard to get a top four spot as we are involved in champions cup & normally playing solidly last 2 months of season!
I am hoping these next 2/3 weeks we can get players fit as I am sure you are with Wasps!
We have no divine right to win anything but to get any sort of silverware seems to get harder each season
If we lose to Leinster I feel we will be able to mount a better challenge for AP ......but I’d rather beat them & win in europe smiling smiley



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
VR1997 (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 13:19
mrangry has said all that needs to be done in a paragraph, well said.
We would have a level playing field throughout the season which is what every club should ask for.

We got 10 points out of a possible 25 during the Internationals. How can you play against a virtually full strength Exeter team with only 2/3rds of your first choice unavailable. The bonus was that Exeter only got 4 points from both games which was a total underachievement by them and a great credit to our players.



Professional sport run by amatures.

 
Re: International Periods Points
King Zak (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 13:49
Quote:
VR1997
mrangry has said all that needs to be done in a paragraph, well said.
We would have a level playing field throughout the season which is what every club should ask for.

We got 10 points out of a possible 25 during the Internationals. How can you play against a virtually full strength Exeter team with only 2/3rds of your first choice unavailable. The bonus was that Exeter only got 4 points from both games which was a total underachievement by them and a great credit to our players.

Professional sport run by amatures.

The problem with splitting the season like that would mean that players would need to play more games = player burn out. Given the limit in games players can play in, it actually makes very little difference to the number of club appearances they will make. It’s a brutal fact, the more successful a team is, the harder it is to maintain that level. One obvious solution is SALARY CAP! Change the restrictions around that; allowing those clubs affected by international call ups to recruit accordingly!

Some will say that’s not a level playing field; neither is having your best players taken by International teams and not being able to recruit wide enough. You could even it up by having a ‘match day salary cap’ - where there is a maximum ‘salary’ for the players appearing that day. This would also allow Premiership teams to recruit stronger teams for European games, where ther is no cap. I.e. you can’t necessarily play ALL of your superstars in the same Premiership game but you could in Europe.

BUT, it’s the majority of Premiership clubs (apparently) who don’t want to change that!



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 14:05
I'd like to know greater detail of mrangry's idea as I don't understand how it could be implemented without other significant changes. In particular how long will the season be? 24 weeks for the Premiership, 9 for the Champions Cup and 12 for internationals totals 45. I don't think this would be possible without a few additional blank weeks for the top players which would leave insufficient time for a summer break and pre season. How would Lions Tours and the World Cup fit in? Is it improving player welfare?

 
Re: International Periods Points
mrangry (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 14:41
The idea is that the league and cup seasons are played for an unbroken 28 weeks. Add 3 for cup if qualified so 31 in total. No play offs, none needed. Thisleaves 21 weeks, 5 for current 6 Nations, ( though thiscould be reviewed) 4 for other Internationals and 12 for rest. There never used to be Autumn Internationals, just one versus touring team, and a few for summer tour. You couldplay 10 years at international level, never miss a match and still only get 80 caps. Club rugby must come first, andwithout it, the national team will suffer. So, Twickenham et al, stop playing so many games and have a proper International season, asmost of the rest of the world would prefer.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 15:26
Thanks MrA. I definitely agree with reducing Internationals (coincidentally to 8 per player, though 10 per season) and thought you might be removing the pay-offs. Whilst I'm happy with both ideas, a downside would be a significant reduction in income to the RFU (who need to distribute their fortune better imo) and the Premiership for the ko games (TV and gate).

Where I think your "season" needs further detail is in the placing of rest weeks. Whilst squad rotation may mean that the Premiership could be played in 22 consecutive weeks, I don't think we could go straight into Europe, nor do I believe all 9 rounds could be played consecutively - where would you place the blank weeks? The same with Internationals - coaches and players need a blank week ahead of any international period, player welfare means the Six Nations has two blank weeks during the competition, and I don't believe players could then go straight into 3 more internationals.

Do you have any detail on World Cups and Lions Tours? Hope this comes across as intended - an interest in exploring alternatives.

 
Re: International Periods Points
mrangry (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 17:28
With the aim to play games in blocks, and with squads large enough for rotation, would there be a need for rest weeks? Or, have Xmas + NewYear off. 5 league, 2 Euro repeated, final 7 games as climax? Of course we could always drop a team, like (INSERT TEAM YOU DESPISE HERE) andhave a rolling week off, playing 20 weeks. And don't forget, Nigel wants Summer Rugby, no snow disruption then.
World Cups no extra internationals, just 5/6 nations, gap, WC, gap. But make WC smaller with qualification a bit like soccer. Then 2/3 parallel competitions, each with 2 groups of 4 round robin, final. When did England play Japan last? Worth thinking about.
Lions year after WC, but shorter, just tests? Whatever, we need to have a proper league with proper fixtures, not Exeter vs Sarries B

 
Re: International Periods Points
The Bard (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 19:19
International players can’t play any more league games, and given the test matches make the money for the RFU there will never be a reduction.
You could consider reducing the impact of the international window by only having 3 points for a win, and losing bonus points only.
Chances are that in a few seasons another club will be the one with the problem and we will be relishing playing them in the international window!

 
Re: International Periods Points
John Tee (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 19:50
Don't take the RFU bribe then... then you may have more control over releasing players.

You might not be able to dictate over the 6N's, but you might on the AI's

This a aimed at all clubs not just Saracens.

 
Re: International Periods Points
fatheralice (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 21:24
I different perspective is that Sarries for example enjoy the ability to play their 6/7 Lions throughout the non international period season (fitness permitting), where other teams do not have that choice -presumably enabling them to accrue more points in these periods than they otherwise would, with the higher quality team they can field

Two sides to every argument.

Squad make up is a tough balancing act, with different demands in the league and in Europe to satisfy. The play offs do provide something of levelling effect over the whole season, and at least you will have the ability to field a fully loaded squad at the pointy end of the season.

From next season it seems likely this will all change again, as the season is restructured to reduce overlap, which I think everyone would agree is a good thing

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 21:35
Sorry,
Not sure this is much of an arguement!
So you’re saying we’re lucky to play all our capped players who are under contract,when internationals are’nt on??
Easiest way out is to play a combined Wasps & Exeter ;England team for international games and see how they both cope!
Bring it on smiling smiley



European champions 2016 & 2017



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2018 22:14 by Highbury Saracen.

 
Re: International Periods Points
fatheralice (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 13:04
No I'm saying clubs make a choice when the make up their squads in terms of who and how many they contract and what they pay.
Sarries are obviously (un)fortunate that players like Loz or isekwe are being called up too in addition to the more obvious players, and this, combined with injuries and a stricter salary cap have put more pressure on the rest of the squad.
You do have the luxury of playing all of your internationals in the cup finals which the play offs allow you to reach, thereby increasing your chances of silverware,
and surely if you can field 7 of the best players in the British isles during the non international season, you would expect to win more games than you lose in such circumstances against inferior opposition?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2018 13:13 by fatheralice.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Yorkie (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 14:12
Sorry but you've just got to lap it up. Having/developing a team of England invitational players is good and allows you to win European Cups but this is where you end up when the invitational circus is in play. Get used to it.

This thread could be lifted straight from the Tigers board 10 or 15 years ago and I don't remember us receiving any sympathy back then. I do remember Sarries visiting WR though to face a much depleted Tigers team and putting 50 points on us (deservedly so) with a gloating Sarries captain then doing a lap of dishonour to wind up the Tigers supporters.

Get your players back and you'll be back in the mix for the payoffs. 2nd in the league I reckon.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 14:17
Take your points fatheralice...its to our credit that a lot of our guys playing for England have come through our academy (or we have improved them through our coaches) ,and we didnt sign them as international players.
Yes we can play our big hitters during finals etc,but we are often without them during the important part of season that allows 1st & 2nd place to be decided



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 14:21
Quote:
Yorkie
Sorry but you've just got to lap it up. Having/developing a team of England invitational players is good and allows you to win European Cups but this is where you end up when the invitational circus is in play. Get used to it.
This thread could be lifted straight from the Tigers board 10 or 15 years ago and I don't remember us receiving any sympathy back then. I do remember Sarries visiting WR though to face a much depleted Tigers team and putting 50 points on us (deservedly so) with a gloating Sarries captain then doing a lap of dishonour to wind up the Tigers supporters.



Get your players back and you'll be back in the mix for the payoffs. 2nd in the league I reckon.

I didnt agree with the system then & I dont agree with it now!
I also think the AP is a lot stronger now with many of ‘lesser’ teams able to compete
Tigers still won most of their games during international breaks......we dont



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: International Periods Points
fatheralice (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 18:48
Baxter said in anninterview pre our match last week that there won't be these clashes in future years, so I'm guessing the new season structure will resolve the issue which can only be good

 
Re: International Periods Points
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 07:39
Quote:
Yorkie
Sorry but you've just got to lap it up. Having/developing a team of England invitational players is good and allows you to win European Cups but this is where you end up when the invitational circus is in play. Get used to it.
This thread could be lifted straight from the Tigers board 10 or 15 years ago and I don't remember us receiving any sympathy back then. I do remember Sarries visiting WR though to face a much depleted Tigers team and putting 50 points on us (deservedly so) with a gloating Sarries captain then doing a lap of dishonour to wind up the Tigers supporters.

Get your players back and you'll be back in the mix for the payoffs. 2nd in the league I reckon.

Can't disagree with any of that Yorkie. We want 50 was a bit unfortunate but laps of the field post match are the norm with us so no intent to wind up. Was never in Ernst's game however the euphoria of beating you quite obviously got to him and us to be honest.
It's quite nice sometimes playing against the system just becomes a tad tedious when we get to this time of year.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 08:22
Quote:
JO'G
I believe that top 4 sides (who generally lose the most) should only play bottom 4 sides during the AI/6N periods
On average, the loss of players will be mitigated in some way by playing sides with lower playing capacity.

Top 4 matches between themselves should never happen in AI / 6N periods


based on previous years (plus promoted team = 12) positions

The issue with that is you can't guess who will be bottom 4 come February.... As fixtures are announced in July you can only go on the last season's standings plus the promoted side.. I mean realistically who expected Newcastle to be in or around the top 4 now? If you go on last season then we would have been playing them (a top four side this season) if we go by your logic of top 4 playing bottom 4....

I agree though that the European Champions and Premiership champions should not be playing each other TWICE in an international period, it's always going to be tough to get the fixtures to everyones liking, but surely there is enough teams to not play each other twice in an international period

 
Re: International Periods Points
LutonS (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 10:04
In related news, it seems the proposals for an elongated season are dead.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: International Periods Points
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 11:57
To put a bit of perspective into all of this..
Listen to the latest The Ruck Podcast (Special March 8th).
Mark Evans.. ex Saracens boss taking about the whole Premiership/England situation, not playoffs. Very informative and a great listen...



SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
Help for Heroes

 
Re: International Periods Points
JO'G (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 12:43
Quote:
Yorkie
Sorry but you've just got to lap it up. Having/developing a team of England invitational players is good and allows you to win European Cups but this is where you end up when the invitational circus is in play. Get used to it.
This thread could be lifted straight from the Tigers board 10 or 15 years ago and I don't remember us receiving any sympathy back then. I do remember Sarries visiting WR though to face a much depleted Tigers team and putting 50 points on us (deservedly so) with a gloating Sarries captain then doing a lap of dishonour to wind up the Tigers supporters.

Get your players back and you'll be back in the mix for the payoffs. 2nd in the league I reckon.

I was at the 50 point game during the RWCup 2011 - Tiggers had 14 players missing and Sarries had 13. Their argument that it effected them more, was that most of their missing players were playing for England

the difference was that Sarries 2nd team was way better at the time than tiggers 2nd team although they had a decent looking young fly-half who looked pretty good behind a beaten pack. He doesn't seem to play so well behind a beaten pack nowadays

 
Re: International Periods Points
PotNoodleHorn (IP Logged)
09 March, 2018 10:03
Quote:
King Zak
How would you decide who the top and bottom four will be come February, when the fixtures are announced in July?

Well to be honest you and I could make a pretty decent go of that list Chris smiling smiley

 
Re: International Periods Points
JO'G (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 12:40
Quote:
PotNoodleHorn
Quote:
King Zak
How would you decide who the top and bottom four will be come February, when the fixtures are announced in July?

Well to be honest you and I could make a pretty decent go of that list Chris smiling smiley

Last season top 4:

Wasps same
Exeter same
Sarries same
Tiggers Newcastle ; but in terms of international call-ups irrelevant

Last season bottom 4:
Bristol same (Irish)
worcester same
Sale ok they are 8th not 10th - pretty irrelevant
Gloucester I'd be happier playing Glaws home and away than Exeter

but if you went top 3 v bottom 3 ; that's almost perfect. six games i'd be happy to play in the International windows

And if you asked any of the bottom 3 clubs whether they would prefer to play Wasps, Sarries and Exeter during the international windows or in the regular season when those 3 would be stacked; i'm pretty sure they would say YES PLEASE

 
Re: International Periods Points
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 12:35
Thought I'd offer the end of season non-IPP table.

But first, congratulations to Exeter on finishing top at the season's end. Whilst I'm happy to see the Premiership Champions decided through the pay-offs, I would very much like to see Chiefs awarded a trophy of some description (similar to the Rugby League "Hub Cap") as reward for their consistency over the season.

67 Saracens (+1)
65 Exeter (-1)
49 Newcastle (+1)
47 Wasps (-1)

42 Leicester
39 Bath
39 Gloucester
39 Sale

37 Northampton
32 Harlequins
18 Worcester
15 Irish

Interesting that only the top 4 positions are (marginally) different from the full table, though the semi finals the same.

 
Re: International Periods Points
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 09:32
But first, congratulations to Exeter on finishing top at the season's end. Whilst I'm happy to see the Premiership Champions decided through the pay-offs, I would very much like to see Chiefs awarded a trophy of some description (similar to the Rugby League "Hub Cap") as reward for their consistency over the season.

Didn’t they start doing that 4/5 years ago, to us if memory serves correctly. We were quite vociferous in stating that all teams who had finished top at the seasons end should have some recognition of that.

 
Re: International Periods Points
primavesi (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 10:20
I think it would be nice if the supporters of all the teams got together to create a supporters shield to be awarded to the team finishing top of the league in the regular season.

 
Re: International Periods Points
boomer! (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 14:09
Quote:
primavesi
I think it would be nice if the supporters of all the teams got together to create a supporters shield to be awarded to the team finishing top of the league in the regular season.

Yup, I like that idea. It takes the granting of a trophy away from sponsors and the league administrators and puts it in the hands of the people who week in week out support their clubs across England.

IIRC it would have to be engraved with Glos first, which IMHO is only fair.

Now you just have to come up with a name for this trophy that is awarded to the Divisional Winner....................


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?