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Farrell / Sexton comparison
Innings (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 11:23
Today's Telegraph notes that whereas Owen has played for Sarries in 15 of 18 possible games for 1084 minutes since the Lions Tour, Sexton has played for Leinster in 8 games of a possible 18 for 435 minutes in the same period.

Perhaps someone can solve the problem of who pays, who employs and who benefits, within the England / AP axis, but I cannot.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
AlanE (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 13:09
Quote:
Innings
Today's Telegraph notes that whereas Owen has played for Sarries in 15 of 18 possible games for 1084 minutes since the Lions Tour, Sexton has played for Leinster in 8 games of a possible 18 for 435 minutes in the same period.
Perhaps someone can solve the problem of who pays, who employs and who benefits, within the England / AP axis, but I cannot.

I assume 6 of those 8 games played by JS were in the ECC (don't need to check).

Purely from a player welfare perspective we have to move towards a situation where - broadly - players who are involved in 10-11 Internationals don't play as much to at all in the Premiership. Exemptions for all sorts of things like injury returners etc.

I know this will be wildly unpopular (including with me) and all sorts of issues around relegation, salary cap, England (and others) payments etc, but as I say - 'purely from a player welfare perspective'.



I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 13:52
The Irish players are incredibly well protected. Every English Lion had played more for their club before the last round of the ECC than the most played Irish Lion.

The answer can't be to remove the players from either the club game. It will kill it - we might all greatly appreciate them, but newcomers to the club don't come to AzP to watch Brad Barritt or Chris Wyles- they come to watch Owen Farrell, Maro Itoje, Billy Vunipola etc.


The answer must be a reduction in internationals - especially the summer tours and the AIs. Rarity is a virtue in international sport.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 14:26
I'd echo Wolfpack, less internationals, also the Irish teams do not have the same standard of opposition in their league as the Aviva Premiership, so they can afford to rest players More often and keep them fresh for the the challenge which is of course European Champions Cup

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
The Bard (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 18:34
Tougher qualification for the European cup was supposed to have addressed this, but it isnít working anymore.
At least they will have been playing a lot of international rugby immediately before the quarter final

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
mrangry (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 19:26
As in previous threads I stated I believe there are too many internationals. Club rugby is the backbone ofthe game, and we need our players fit for that, not knackered by calls from their country. The Irish protect their players , have large squads, and are able to bring through young players by resting internationals. The weekend we played Leinster in Dublin, Leinster A played Wuss in the British and Irish, and had in their squad Rhys Ruddock and Devin Toner among others who went on to first team regularity. Careful use of resources, planned integration and cohesion betwen province and country, reasons why Ireland are champions. Oh that the (new) old farts at HQ had the same attitude

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 21:01
Let's remind ourselves here:
WHO INVESTS IN THESE PLAYERS TO GET THEM SELECTED FOR INTERNATIONALS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
THE CLUBS!
WHERE SHOULD THEIR FIRST LOYALTY BE? -
THE CLUBS!
WHO SUFFERS MOST WHEN THEY DISAPPEAR FOR LONGER PERIODS EACH YEAR BECAUSE THE RFU IS BLOODY GREEDY AND DOESNT GIVE JACK @#$%& ABOUT THEIR WELFARE AND SENDS THEM BACK KNACKERED OVER TRAINED AND OFTEN NOT USED TO PLAYING THEIR MAIN POSITION-? WHO HAS TO PUT THEM BACK TOGETHER AGAIN, GIVE THEM CONFIDENCE AGAIN?
THE CLUBS!
WHO HAS TO FILL IN, PLAY WHEN THEY NORMALLY WOULDN'T HAVE TO - AND END UP INJURED OR CARRYING INJURIES BECAUSE OF IT?
OUR REMAINING CLUB PLAYERS WHO HAVE TO TAKE UP THE SLACK WHEN THE 'SELECTED' DISAPPEAR!
DONT TELL ME THEY SHOULDNT PLAY SO MUCH IN THE PREMIERSHIP! IT ISNT THE PREMIERSHIP THAT IS AT FAULT HERE - IT'S THE GREEDY @#$%& AT THE RFU!
Sorry AlanE - you may be trying to think about the boys. So am I - but I don't see why Saracens, Bath, Quins, Chiefs, Leicester or any of the other clubs who to a greater or lesser degree end up trying to mend a broken system should suffer even more for providing the country with good players. The whole system stinks. It should be mutually benefical with everyone working together! Apologies for the caps, but I really really am angry about this. Especially when I read that the RFU plans to beat that poor mule even harder next season .... We simply cannot carry on like this!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (Sm31)hot smiley(Sm20)

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
ninjafez (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 21:49
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Let's remind ourselves here:
WHO INVESTS IN THESE PLAYERS TO GET THEM SELECTED FOR INTERNATIONALS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
THE CLUBS!
WHERE SHOULD THEIR FIRST LOYALTY BE? -
THE CLUBS!
WHO SUFFERS MOST WHEN THEY DISAPPEAR FOR LONGER PERIODS EACH YEAR BECAUSE THE RFU IS BLOODY GREEDY AND DOESNT GIVE JACK @#$%& ABOUT THEIR WELFARE AND SENDS THEM BACK KNACKERED OVER TRAINED AND OFTEN NOT USED TO PLAYING THEIR MAIN POSITION-? WHO HAS TO PUT THEM BACK TOGETHER AGAIN, GIVE THEM CONFIDENCE AGAIN?
THE CLUBS!
WHO HAS TO FILL IN, PLAY WHEN THEY NORMALLY WOULDN'T HAVE TO - AND END UP INJURED OR CARRYING INJURIES BECAUSE OF IT?
OUR REMAINING CLUB PLAYERS WHO HAVE TO TAKE UP THE SLACK WHEN THE 'SELECTED' DISAPPEAR!
DONT TELL ME THEY SHOULDNT PLAY SO MUCH IN THE PREMIERSHIP! IT ISNT THE PREMIERSHIP THAT IS AT FAULT HERE - IT'S THE GREEDY @#$%& AT THE RFU!
Sorry AlanE - you may be trying to think about the boys. So am I - but I don't see why Saracens, Bath, Quins, Chiefs, Leicester or any of the other clubs who to a greater or lesser degree end up trying to mend a broken system should suffer even more for providing the country with good players. The whole system stinks. It should be mutually benefical with everyone working together! Apologies for the caps, but I really really am angry about this. Especially when I read that the RFU plans to beat that poor mule even harder next season .... We simply cannot carry on like this!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (Sm31)hot smiley(Sm20)

Blimey.... Don't get me wrong BS, nothing wrong with what your saying, just wow



Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 23:02
ninjafez - at least you don't have to live with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Sm100)(Sm14)(Sm63)(Sm54) RANT RANT!!!!!!!!!!!(Sm59)

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
AlanE (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 05:50
Interesting thought experiment and, as predicted, not many would like the idea - including, as I said, me.

Most seem to think the answer is in fewer internationals, and I think that would be a good thing. However, the obvious follow-up is how do you think that might be achieved? It doesn't seem to me to be on the agenda - rather the opposite. And I wonder how the players would vote on that single question - more or fewer opportunities to be capped (and paid).



I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
mrangry (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 07:26
They didn't complain in the past when there weren't so many internationals. And if the RFU paid them less and made a per player fee to the club, outside the salary cap then clubs might be able to buy cover for when they are missing. But we all know what RFU stands for. (Really F****** Useless)

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
John Tee (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 08:22
Good rant BarnetS and broadly correct. Imo.
Clubs will stage a power grab pretty soon which wil be more akin to the football model where there are some comps why clubs must release players, and others where
there isnt agreement...andanyvreleae will be based on player welfare.
I happen to think th e clubs have these interests best at heart because they are their players of course, and they pay the salary.
In order to get clubs to realise players for money making tours, the club's will have to agree and allow that release
and that will be a club and country compromise bases on give and take.

Unfortunately, also Rugby is still quite amateurish in that it allows too many partisan conflicts. And doesn't have proper demarcation and seems to have too much under the table verbal deals....

The labs need to get together and,speak as a league entity, and not be perceived as just the favoured few.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
John Tee (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 08:25
As regards Sexton and Farrell as players Farrell needs to decide if he is a 10 or 12.
Personally, I think he is a 12, but if he plays 10, he should model himself on Sexton...

Whether that would England is another question, Imo, but it would suit Farrell's talents.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 09:42
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Let's remind ourselves here ...GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (Sm31)hot smiley(Sm20)

(Sm108)

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 10:53
Thanks OM. I feel better already (Sm36)

AlanE - have you read all the posts on the 'Coincidence' thread. That has actually turned into a suggestion thread for how to solve the 'over playing' and 'club v country' dichotomy.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
JO'G (IP Logged)
16 March, 2018 13:23
so removing the 6 EC games since the Lions Tour,

Owen has played for Sarries in 9 of 12 possible games for 604 minutes
Sexton has played for Leinster in 3 games of a possible 12 for 135 minutes



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Sarriebone (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 22:32
This has been posted on the Bath forum, not sure how accurate it is as I struggle to believe Big Billy has played that much with the injuries he's had this season but it matches the Farrell/Sexton numbers that have been quoted
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=461

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Harrow Sarrie (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 08:18
Errr, I don't recall Billy touring with the Lions...

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Rupes (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 10:47
I put this on another thread, but this isn't all the RFU's doing.

Premiership Rugby reached an agreement with the RFU (and the Lions btw) about release of players. I don't think the RFU get it all right, far from it, but at least recognise the clubs' compliance with this as well. That includes Saracens by the way.

If Premiership Rugby are unhappy with their arrangement, then just as in any other line of business then they can return to the negotiating table.

No-one has even mentioned the PRA. They must be involved as well. Ask the players, they will tell you they want to go on Lions Tours. They also want to be managed in terms of workload.

Bottom line is that the Top 14 (and associated unions) has the club vs country mix right in the main, England have never dealt with it.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Sarriebone (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 11:13
Quote:
Harrow Sarrie
Errr, I don't recall Billy touring with the Lions...
Another reason to question the accuracy of it

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Sarriebone (IP Logged)
23 March, 2018 13:05
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY-W5NLX0AAC6A2.jpg
*Shamelessly stolen from someone on twitter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/03/2018 15:01 by Sarriebone.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
23 March, 2018 14:17
Incredible and alarming.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
23 March, 2018 14:42
Wow!

Great analysis and presentation, the picture couldn't be clearer.

 
Re: Farrell / Sexton comparison
pipbiker (IP Logged)
24 March, 2018 06:34
For true 6 Nations equality put all European teams in three tier league system, with promotion/relegation.


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