Latest News:
New Page 1

Whatever your views on Saracens, whether a Sarries fan or not, leave them here.

To leave a message on this board you must register. To register click HERE, it takes only a minute.
Non-rugby posts are welcome, but please prefix your subject header with "OT" or "Off Topic".

Thought for the Day:

Next: Harlequins V Saracens Sat 26th Jan, 15.00 The Stoop, PCR,
Audio: Click the link below. If it ain' there, it ain't on!
Upcoming TV: Gloucester Rugby v Saracens 19.00 BT Sport 1

BBC Online Rugby Union Commentaries

The Fish | Rugby Union News | Fez Boys | Saracens Fixtures | The SSA | Rugby on TV

England leadership malaise?
Innings (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 10:53
According to Eddie, England's loss of form was due to selfishness and complacency. Could that be caused in part by his own attitude to carrying on with several players clearly past their best but deemed so important that he failed to look at other options until England's worst ever result in the 6N forced his hand? I don't want to get personal, but I guess any of us could offer three or four names of players who fit the bill. He also bangs on about England leadership, and how wonderful it is, but selfishness and complacency are caused by downright bad leaders and managers.

He ends: "Three games ago I was the best thing that ever happened to English rugby, now I'm the worst." He never was the best, and isn't the worst, but perhaps he isn't as good as he and others thought when it comes to a long-term project.


Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: England leadership malaise?
John Tee (IP Logged)
12 May, 2018 08:22
Quite a few people pretty much predicted or warned that the 6n's could be fraught for England.
The AI's didnt fill you with much confidence.
The buck stops with Jones...he has the control and selections and tactics.
Other teams have developed since the last work cup. Jones didn't at all. He thought he could get the game to function by being together.... But he forgot to address key areas that weren't working and had often come up short.

Arrogance and pig headiness hasn't served him well, Imo.
I wouldn't be at all surpised if there was player discention or at least dissatisfaction in the camp.
I worry about his man management skills...
He doesn't cone across as the moat gracious man.. And does he have a history of losing the dressing room...???

I don't see any real leaders there at all...but possibly Farrell maybe. Not at 10, he hides to often..and doesnt not even play like a leader..
I think itoje will take up the mantle when he feels a senior player...and I only say that because you can't expect him to boss things as a relative newbie. He is a senior player but may not is quite his place just yet.
Launchbury maybe. Lawes is a lieutenant who you'd follow by deed, as is Robshaw, but itoje is the closest we may have to a captain in the Mj mould..?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 13:43 by John Tee.

Re: England leadership malaise?
wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
12 May, 2018 13:10
Being a tad selfish I hope he doesnít burn out our players on the SA tour. I thought this would have been a great opportunity to try out some fringe players and some with potential for the future. Itís a shame he hasnít called up Ashy but it was never going to happen but as another poster on here commented that our Lions players have been playing 11 months straight its madness.

Re: England leadership malaise?
AlanE (IP Logged)
12 May, 2018 17:46
John Tee
I don't see any real leaders there at all...but possibly Farrell maybe. Not at 10, he hides to often..and doesnt not even play like a leader..

Hides? Really?

I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

Re: England leadership malaise?
John Tee (IP Logged)
13 May, 2018 07:08
No, sorry. I meant Ford but somehow it got lost on the post.
One thing that Farrell doesnt do is hide, for sure.

Re: England leadership malaise?
RuggyBuggy (IP Logged)
13 May, 2018 15:24
John Tee
Arrogance and pig headiness hasn't served him well, Imo.
Arrogance and pig headiness served Jones very well in his first two seasons. He was able to harness the disappointment of the World Cup and use that to create a siege mentality, selecting Hartley as captain fed into that. It wasn't sustainable though. After back to back 6Ns, that was no longer enough. Jones' air of invincibility is gone, meaning his arrogance now makes him look stupid, in fact, providing motivation to the opposition (scummy Irish).

I also think Jones was helped early on by the fact that the nucleus of the team (Mako, Mauro, Billy, Faz, even Ashton for a while) were dominating European rugby with Sarries. Jones built his team around them, supplemented by the best of the rest. This season these players were tired after the Lions and struggling with Sarries. I think circumstances meant the Sarries players provided leadership to the England squad with little or no input from Jones. When they were low on confidence, Jones didn't know where to look or how to fix the problem.

I think Jones walked into a situation which was ideal for him and his approach to things. The situation is no longer suited to that and he can't change. I would be worried for England in SA, particularly if SA pick their best over seas players and Rassie can bring them together. The question is, will the players be willing to fight for Jones again when the chips are down, building up to the World Cup?

Re: England leadership malaise?
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
15 May, 2018 10:25
I thought the quote from Yoda was "Selfishness and complacency, but enough about me". winking smiley

I won't need my coat.

£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage []

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?