Having moved from E4 to E3 like many other people around me, it seems all of our old seats have remained unsold which is no big surprise. I have also looked at blocks E5 and E6 and its the same in those two centre blocks as well. The majority of the old gold seats remain unsold. Its such a shame the heart of the East stand has been ripped out and the supporters either forced to move else where or give up their long held season tickets. Lets hope the club has a rethink on the outrageous price hikes. If these tickets remain unsold all the atmosphere the club has worked so hard to build over the years will be gone.
Where is the so called demand for these seats which the club used to justify the price rise. They have badly underestimated the loyal supporters.

In my old block lower E4 - in the old "black seats" which had very few "spare " previously there are currently 87 of 128 free !

Either it's early days or they are hoping to fill them on match days - but that is very poor .

if they don't it will look very odd on the TV with big blocks of seats empty !

Inaccurate demand statements yes, but there’s still a long time left for seats to sell

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Stuart Barnes is a Cock Womble

I hope for the clubs sake they haven't made a monumental mistake. An ocean of green in the East stand right now including my seat.

I presume if they remain unsold they will be sold as day tickets , along with every other seat not sold to season ticket holders . Us mere mortals can make some noise too you know .... not that I can personally afford to sit in platinum seats

Quote:

Squawker2
Inaccurate demand statements yes, but there’s still a long time left for seats to sell

That is quite true, but this time last year,all 128 seats were sold, albeit at last season's price.

I would be surprised if they sell those tickets to season ticket holders unless they were corporate tickets. Corporate clients want good seats so they can impress potential / current customers.

If I were them I wouldn't sell them as season tickets. I would sell them to well heeled casual supporters / corporate on a match by match basis. £85 to £120 a pop for the best seats. And they will probably sell most of them on match days given the scarcity now...

I’m not sure how much scarcity there really is?
The semi versus wasps had quite a few empty seats in east stand & thats with about 1500 opposition fans in ground!!
If they are keeping for corporate then the club are taking a risk for our less attractive fixtures
I think maybe they didnr expect as many people to relocate

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European champions 2016 & 2017

My experience of Corporate Hospitality is that many recipients don't even take up their seats in the stand, let alone support the team in any meaningful manner.

I went to an evening game at the Stoop. As some guests were late, the food was delayed; I pointed out that the match was likely to start before we had finished eating and that those of us already present should be served.

The 'Special Guest' in our box ruled that we should wait I managed my starter before kick-off, watched the first half on my own, and got some dregs of desert at half-time.

The 'Special Guest', provided by Quins, was Tony Diprose. Perhaps, Frankie Peanuts was right to punch his lights out!

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£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Quote:

TonyTaff
My experience of Corporate Hospitality is that many recipients don't even take up their seats in the stand, let alone support the team in any meaningful manner.
I went to an evening game at the Stoop. As some guests were late, the food was delayed; I pointed out that the match was likely to start before we had finished eating and that those of us already present should be served.

The 'Special Guest' in our box ruled that we should wait I managed my starter before kick-off, watched the first half on my own, and got some dregs of desert at half-time.

The 'Special Guest', provided by Quins, was Tony Diprose. Perhaps, Frankie Peanuts was right to punch his lights out!

I remember going to Queens Club with Paypal for the tennis. Andy Murray was playing - it was one set all and tea was being served. Almost all the other guests decamped to eat it and drink the champagne with it. When i finally arrived after Murray had lost in 3; the food was gone, most of the drink, drunk.

It certainly looks like the gentrification/ethnic cleansing has created an enormous amount of the capacity in the East Stand. I really don't see how they are going to take in more money simply by relying on matchday sales for these seats.
I'm sure I'm not alone in now actually spending less because we have moved to the south stand, which begs the question of where are the schools/clubs going to sit?

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TonyTaff
My experience of Corporate Hospitality is that many recipients don't even take up their seats in the stand, let alone support the team in any meaningful manner.

Necessary evil unfortunately - all the teams bar one are still making a loss even with the corporate cash cow. The reason by Exe are profitable is because they have dialled the corporate thing to 11 and have reaped the financial benefits. As a fan of rugby I just try to stay away from it at our ground, safe in the knowledge that the are offsetting some of our losses for the season...

I think the entire scarcity argument will fall down. I really don't think there's a long list of people waiting to come to games. As mentioned corporate hospitality will undoubtedly use some of these tickets but as mentioned realistically most of them arent interested in the team or the game. As for "match-day walk-ups" I think on nice mild autumn and spring days they will come but in deepest, darkest winter again I doubt they will be there.

Rightly or wrongly I hope the ticketing decision turns out to be one of the biggest cluster f*cks the club has made. They have taken the loyal season ticket holders for granted and actually deserve a little bit of payback.

I know my opinion won't be welcomed by all on here (and I have renewed by Gold ticket that has been silver in all previous years at AP) but that is the way I and I believe a lot of other supporters feel. In terms of the team they have my unswerving loyalty. For the board and those responsible for ticketing strategy I don't give 2 hoots for and I hope this comes back and bites them hard. Unfortunately the damage has been done.

Agree with pretty much all daz said!
I wonder if the PR dept had got their a**e in gear how avoidable some if this might be?
You can be brutal & say its business but that business needs its regular bread & butter customers
I do hope Saracens crowds do not become similar to those attending HQ for England games as 50/60% arent interested in match at all

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European champions 2016 & 2017

Think you are right Daz. It seems the club have completely misjudged the situation. I cant see many walk ups on the day willing to pay over £70 for a ticket in the temporary black seats in the East stand in which if raining you will still get wet, and no cheaper seats will be left for them as they will be taken up by displaced season ticket holders. All the hard work over the last few years to sell out most weeks will be lost if nothing is done and the club will lose more money. I hope I am wrong for the clubs sake and they do sell all the tickets but I doubt it.

Having done a bit of reading around this, it's interesting to note how the ticketing is done at Saracens. They basically split the CEO role when Heath left, so the ticketing/marketing/commercial etc...side of the business now seems to be run by a company called Premier Team Promotions. Whose chairperson is Lucy Wray.

The link to the release from the club is here (back from March).

It does make me wonder how this cannot be a conflict of interest. If the ticketing / commercial etc...side isn't running as it should, then the club should have full right to renegotiate contracts and the like. No doubt that's the case.

Just to edit - I'm not having a dig at person X or Y, I just wonder if that's a healthy situation for the club to be in as it would naturally require some very careful management.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2018 11:00 by Rupes.

Guys, the club don't care about what you or I think. My betting is that once they have created the space in the East stand they will promote the corporate market for tickets and sell out most games.

Think about HQ in the AI's and 6N's. How many of those tickets go to week in week out rugby fans and how many go to corporate events / occasional fans.

We are the English Champions and have been back to back European champion and we are based in London.

To back up my point look at the Tulip club which I believe was specifically set up to chase the financial types and has been a great success. The club will use the East Stand tickets probably to expand this activity.

Rupes

I was under the impression that Lucy (and her husband) would effectively be running the club in 10 years time, with a few handouts from dad

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JO'G
I was under the impression that Lucy (and her husband) would effectively be running the club in 10 years time

That would be Tom Mercey ex Northampton Saints? Take-over by stealth

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SarrieSaint

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JO'G
I was under the impression that Lucy (and her husband) would effectively be running the club in 10 years time

That would be Tom Mercey ex Northampton Saints? Take-over by stealth

He’s just come back home!

My er "other" season ticket will cost me £90 for a seat near the 10m line in a brand spanking new stand - 11 Championship games + whatever replaces the B&I cup. With petrol that's less than I usually pay per game at AP, though in truth the quality on show is considerably lower!

Quote:

Highbury Saracen
I’m not sure how much scarcity there really is?
The semi versus wasps had quite a few empty seats in east stand & thats with about 1500 opposition fans in ground!!
If they are keeping for corporate then the club are taking a risk for our less attractive fixtures
I think maybe they didnr expect as many people to relocate

The semi final was between two May Bank holidays and therefore people who booked a fortnight spring break almost certainly would have 19th May at start or end of their hols. That will account for some of the gaps.

Also, it was forecasts to be a great weekend weather-wise and even the most devout S/T holder may chose a weekend away with the missus rather that the rugby.

I am also guilty of causing some of those gaps as 4 S/T holder seats were left empty as I invited those S/T holders to my daughters wedding.

And let's not forget those Saracens who may also have had tickets to see Chelsea beat United at Wembley.

Boomer - in reality the game should have sold out a least a few days in advance given the fact it was a semi final and the large travelling support. The gaps in the east stand weren't season ticket holders who hadn't turned up - they were seats not sold, and I'm pretty sure the club announced it as a sellout to save face.

Even with season ticket holders missing, the gaps should have been filled by fans if the demand was there. But clearly there is not.

I agree with highbury Saracen and I think the club have massively underestimated demand from fans/corporates willing to swallow the price hike. I don't understand how the club can afford to turn away loyal fans and put off potential new ones with the price rises given our support base is relatively small and the club has worked really hard to increase it year on year. It has underdone any progress they have made. There will be large gaps in the east stand next year and it will be embarrassing.

Presumably, overestimated demand?

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Stuart Barnes is a Cock Womble

If there is a constant theme of complaint from potential new customers that the offered seats are rubbish, then the club have tried to arrest it by making some decent seats available.

They are now offering those decent seats to new season ticket holders, but not at the Gold prices of last season.

I wonder if the response will be - oh great you have some decent seats available; how much .... oh no thanks.

It is now getting near the end of July and there are still plenty of seats left in the East Stand unsold. Just had a count of the centre three blocks in the temporary black seats and there are still 241 spare seats of which the majority were sold this time last year. There are 480 seats available in total of which only 239 have been sold, 50% unsold at £1030 each leaves a short fall of just over £248,000 in those middle three blocks alone.
I do think that they have made a huge mistake and miscalculation in what the demand was for those seats. Time to rethink Saracens management.

It would be difficult for the club to row back this season. We may see last minute offers for a given match and/or part-season season ticket offers at less per match than the original offer.

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£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Corporates tend to be greatly underused. Two seats in front of me were never available for casual purchase and only ever occupied after KO by people. Moving. Maybe that's the answer for filling the East stand during the second half

How many matches do you get for a season ticket?

Perhaps we should start sending bids in for those seats?

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Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

The corporate market has shrunk greatly, and not just in rugby. The Bribery Act regulates in detail what monetary vale value may be applied to entertaining, whether up or down the commercial chain. Many firms have given up permitting giving or accepting corporate invitations of this kind. My guess is that smaller firms have gone down that route and larger firms are generally looking at different routes that don't don't involve out and out freebies like seats at rugby matches.

Funnily enough Note 20 of the government's guidance notes specifically mention internationals at TWickenham and explains how that could be acceptable. However, Note 26 has the sting that many corporate compliance departments fear: "It is, however, clear that hospitality and promotional or other similar business expenditure can be employed as bribes."

I'm no lawyer,but I have asked some people who lead SMEs what they've done. In general they seem to be doing far more that can be directly shown to have a benefit to the business, and far less that simply involves seats at matches, the theatre and so on.

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Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

I went online and have seen 2 S/T still unsold and as they are singles they could remain unsold.

They are in block E7 Q156 & P161 at £700.00

I have moved out of area so S/T no good to me but I do buy single matchday tickets when I am in London NW.

I'll be interested to see what these may be offered to me by the club on a match by match basis given £700.00 / 16 = £43.75

Quote:

Paulr58
It is now getting near the end of July and there are still plenty of seats left in the East Stand unsold. Just had a count of the centre three blocks in the temporary black seats and there are still 241 spare seats of which the majority were sold this time last year. There are 480 seats available in total of which only 239 have been sold, 50% unsold at £1030 each leaves a short fall of just over £248,000 in those middle three blocks alone.
I do think that they have made a huge mistake and miscalculation in what the demand was for those seats. Time to rethink Saracens management.

You spent your Saturday morning counting how many seats were unsold? I think you might need to have a word with yourself pal.

Quote:

Paulr58
It is now getting near the end of July and there are still plenty of seats left in the East Stand unsold. Just had a count of the centre three blocks in the temporary black seats and there are still 241 spare seats of which the majority were sold this time last year. There are 480 seats available in total of which only 239 have been sold, 50% unsold at £1030 each leaves a short fall of just over £248,000 in those middle three blocks alone.
I do think that they have made a huge mistake and miscalculation in what the demand was for those seats. Time to rethink Saracens management.

On those figure I would say the club have pretty well justified their position.

Last season in those 480 seats around 10% were unoccupied by season ticket holders
so 430 x £700 - £300k with 800 day tickets available for sale average price £50 - £40k

This season 240 x £1050 - £252k with still 3,800 day tickets available for sale average price £75. if they can sell 30% of the available day tickets (similar numbers to last year), then they will have netted the same income. if they can sell the other 70%, there will be a surplus over 200k

Another 80 season tickets sold before the season starts (the HAC will be a time to sell them) and the club will have the same income as last year - and they still will have three times as many day tickets to sell as last year


PS: I didn't mean to represent that I condone what the club has done - merely to point out from the figures that their endgame of increasing their revenue will probably happen given the number of tickets they had already sold.

I also will be reducing my non-season ticket spending. I didn't spend much apart from beer anyway, and i might stay longer / arrive earlier in the Bridge Tavern in future



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/07/2018 16:33 by JO'G .

But Jeremy the figures you have there include a lot of what if's and but's, and I honestly don't think it's that simple (you can know the price of everything and the value of nothing) also that dosent take into account S/T holders who have left because of this and won't be coming back (and there are some, regardless of what others say)something that also hasn't been taken into account are the group of S/T holders who are still there,but will keep their hands in their pocket this coming season because of what has happened.

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london pride
...something that also hasn't been taken into account are the group of S/T holders who are still there,but will keep their hands in their pocket this coming season because of what has happened.

This! Although I'm still there (for one more season anyway), I consider myself "downgraded" and will buy no more merchandise, nor bring guests (except family) to Wembley/HQ/London Stadium, until Sarries have admitted how shockingly they've treated loyal ST holders (i.e. probably never). Some kind of backtracking would be ideal, recognition/compensation would be a reasonable second best, but an apology would do for a start. It may sound petty, but I can do without alcohol at the ground, and will try to remember to bring a flask of tea/coffee so I don't need to spend a bean at club outlets. If I do need supplies they will come from one of the independent concessions.

Sarries management now need to be be very afraid of a sustained downturn of fortunes on the pitch.

Roger G You are not the only one who will be taking this kind of action.I know of two groups of supporters (one group of about 5 and another family group of 3 adults and 4 children) who will be drinking before and after the game in one of the local Rugby Clubs.Several other individuals just won't drink there and will just make their way home.

That’s a shame you feel that way. Saracens have been punching above their weight for many years. I’m sure they are very happy for the support but the shareholders have spent £50m in their investment to make Saracens the best club in the Uk & one of the top teams in Europe.
It is a real balancing act to keep everyone happy. Saracens at least try. PS In defence of those in the Tulip Club. They happily spend their money & support their team.

Quote:

Teddy60
That’s a shame you feel that way. Saracens have been punching above their weight for many years. I’m sure they are very happy for the support but the shareholders have spent £50m in their investment to make Saracens the best club in the Uk & one of the top teams in Europe.
It is a real balancing act to keep everyone happy. Saracens at least try. PS In defence of those in the Tulip Club. They happily spend their money & support their team.

I assume then Teddy, you're not one of those who's had their seat price hiked by 60% and had to move to a much inferior seat to keep the old price (ish), and had their car park price hiked by 40% or removed completely. I know some of the more well-heeled have also been hit hard by the recent price hikes but I strongly contest the notion that Saracens try to keep everyone happy - they used to but no more.

Couldn't agree more Roger. I too have been ousted previously and again this time. Car parking I have chased since end of season and did not get a promised phone call or even the email about pricing and availability. The guys on the end of the phone are put in a difficult position by awful management, no feedback available on the blocking fence at Dollis School.
Those of us supporting for decades now only receive indifference. This could well be my last season too.

I’m sure most folks are aware of the economic realities.

However,the manner of implementation of Saracens new pricing policy has left a sour taste with many folks.

Whilst the onfield element can be admired the off field side is steadily worsening in my opinion.

The match day experience is certainly not what it used to be.

I don’t perceive it to be the “Saracens Family” any longer.

Lets see what the new season brings and what they hit us with at the end of it !

As a matter of interest how many previous East Stand gold STHs have as of now not renewed or alternatively moved to a different part of the stand?

I will buy a ST before the season starts but at a similar price point to my previous one. I was wondering if there was a small group of us (10-20)in a similar situation whether we might be able to talk to the ticket office as a group? If they are happy with how things are then no issue and we all get to buy tickets in different areas/not renew etc but if they feel they have miscalculated maybe there's a discussion that could be had?

Pretty much the majority of lower E4 have moved / left I would say .

A large number of the folks(and myself) I sat with have moved to E3

Just a quick check on the fish to see what seats are still available in lower E4 and out of 128 seats, 88 are still not sold! This was full last season.
This looks not only a poor business decision, but a woeful disregard to dedicated supporters.

Quote:

Eurosarrie
Just a quick check on the fish to see what seats are still available in lower E4 and out of 128 seats, 88 are still not sold! This was full last season.
This looks not only a poor business decision, but a woeful disregard to dedicated supporters.

You will only be able to say it is a poor business decision if those seats remain empty on match days throughout the season. If they are always filled up by one off attendees who will almost certainly spend money in the shop and other outlets then it will have been a good business decision.

I would have thought the hike in prices was to free up quality seats to be sold on a match day basis not necessarily get more season ticket holders. Towards the end of the season we were running at capacity crowds.

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Graeme

Quote:

Graeme D

Quote:

Eurosarrie
Just a quick check on the fish to see what seats are still available in lower E4 and out of 128 seats, 88 are still not sold! This was full last season.
This looks not only a poor business decision, but a woeful disregard to dedicated supporters.

You will only be able to say it is a poor business decision if those seats remain empty on match days throughout the season. If they are always filled up by one off attendees who will almost certainly spend money in the shop and other outlets then it will have been a good business decision.

I would have thought the hike in prices was to free up quality seats to be sold on a match day basis not necessarily get more season ticket holders. Towards the end of the season we were running at capacity crowds.

A Finance Director speaks!

Graeme, your logic is unimpeachable, whereas Eurosarrie was wearing their heart on their sleeve.

Applying normal commercial principles to a sports club invariably collides with supporter passion.

If, when, the playing success atrophies, the occasional attendees desert and the loyal previous occupants have been alienated.

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£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Quote:

SarrieSaint
As a matter of interest how many previous East Stand gold STHs have as of now not renewed or alternatively moved to a different part of the stand?
I will buy a ST before the season starts but at a similar price point to my previous one. I was wondering if there was a small group of us (10-20)in a similar situation whether we might be able to talk to the ticket office as a group? If they are happy with how things are then no issue and we all get to buy tickets in different areas/not renew etc but if they feel they have miscalculated maybe there's a discussion that could be had?

I, and I'm sure the other two in my group would be happy to buy our old (now platinum) seats at the new gold prices, but I fear we'll have to wait for the porcine air division to get airborne first.

Waldo, I'm envious - I used to be about 3 seats behind you and a couple of seats further south, but the best I was offered was E2 and a fair few rows further back than I was as well. Still bitter, and still definitely not spending more than is absolutely necessary beyond my seat price.

Roger G I am sure you're right and yet if we have a large enough group and they have miscalculated maybe it's worth at least finding out how many would be interested in a "late deal" if such a thing could happen. Btw I am not holding out much hope but never say never!

Quote:

SarrieSaint
Roger G I am sure you're right and yet if we have a large enough group and they have miscalculated maybe it's worth at least finding out how many would be interested in a "late deal" if such a thing could happen. Btw I am not holding out much hope but never say never!

I'm sorry, I might be suffering from a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face,but I don't think I would accept a 'Late' offer.If the club were to make that offer (and let's be honest, they won't)it won't be because they realise a mistake has been made and they have annoyed and upset some of their oldest and most loyal supporters, but more likely it would be made because they realise they will be loosing money either immediately or in the long term.That, and of course they won't or can't make any assurances it won't happen again.Kick me once in the backside, but I won't bend over and let you do it again.

This Lucy Wray....she’s no Karen Brady!!!

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European champions 2016 & 2017