rugbyunion
Latest News:
New Page 1

Whatever your views on Saracens, whether a Sarries fan or not, leave them here.

To leave a message on this board you must register. To register click HERE, it takes only a minute.
Non-rugby posts are welcome, but please prefix your subject header with "OT" or "Off Topic".


Thought for the Day:
CHAMPIONS AGAIN!

Latest: EXETER CHIEFS 10:27 SARACENS (Aviva Premiership Final)
Audio: Click the link below. If it ain' there, it ain't on!
Upcoming TV:

BBC Online Rugby Union Commentaries

The Fish | Rugby Union News | Fez Boys | Saracens Fixtures | The SSA


Billy injured again!
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 16:54
Taken off just before 1/2 time..

FFS!!



SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
Help for Heroes

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:53
Not clear what the problem was...and he was looking the part in terms of fitness this time around.
Hughes is too indisciplined atm to pick up the mantle.

I thought things didn't go to hand very well but that and indiscipline was the difference, imo.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
DoubleChampions (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:17
Quote:
1876-Fez
Taken off just before 1/2 time..
FFS!!

We all know he should not be on the tour - the RFU need to get to grip with player welfare before clubs start refusing access

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:38
Quote:
DoubleChampions
Quote:
1876-Fez
Taken off just before 1/2 time..
FFS!!

We all know he should not be on the tour - the RFU need to get to grip with player welfare before clubs start refusing access

To be honest out of all the sarries Billy is one who should have gone as he missed the entire six nations campaign

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:41
Not sure the clubs can refuse...they've taken the dollar..??

But I would think they wont be so eager at the next round of negotiations.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 19:12
Funny wasnt it - Will Greenwood made a point of saying that the Saracens boys should have been left to have a drink or two on a beach rather than being on the tour at all - then went on to mention Cipriani - and also Loz, Ben Earl and Spenno. Erm - those three play for us too, Will. I did have a wry smile on my face, despite that horror show.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
AlanE (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 06:54
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Funny wasnt it - Will Greenwood made a point of saying that the Saracens boys should have been left to have a drink or two on a beach rather than being on the tour at all - then went on to mention Cipriani - and also Loz, Ben Earl and Spenno. Erm - those three play for us too, Will. I did have a wry smile on my face, despite that horror show.

I didn't see the Greenwood interview but presumably that was because those three haven't also come off the back of a Lions tour and then played a full season...?



I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

 
Re: Billy injured again!
SBFez (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 12:27
[www.saracens.com]

Confirmed he's re-fractured his arm.

Can we (Eddie Jones) please stop playing him before he's ready. It takes time for a player's body to 'harden' to the impacts of professional rugby- and Billy's impacts are larger than most. As much as he does now have a few weeks off surely this will affect his pre-season preparations and also his confidence in his own body if he keeps breaking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/06/2018 12:29 by SBFez.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 12:34
Bug... because he looked ok for the first half...and Hughes isn't adequate cover atm.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
mattimp (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 13:17
Lucky if he will be back before the 1st lot of European fixtures if last time he fractured it was anything to go by. This was always going to happen but nothing the club could do about it. Was it worth the risk playing him ? In hindsight obviously not. So frustrating for everyone really.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Wightwasp (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 14:57
Quote:
John Tee
Not clear what the problem was...and he was looking the part in terms of fitness this time around.
Hughes is too indisciplined atm to pick up the mantle.

I thought things didn't go to hand very well but that and indiscipline was the difference, imo.
Hughes too indisciplined ha ha
How many bloody penalties have Maro and mako given away in the first 2 tests
Pathetic comment!!!

 
Re: Billy injured again!
F-F-F-FEZ (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:14
We all remember Billy saying that he & others were being pushed too much, playing too many games and that he'd be happy to play less for proportionately less pay to lengthen his career. Strike action was even mentioned. How prophetic. I feel for him - he's a fine player but is being over used to his own physical detriment.

As for Wightwasp's reaction to John Tee - I think you'll find that we all have the right to freely express opinions on these boards without being called "pathetic". Bit OTT

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Wightwasp (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 16:13
Quote:
F-F-F-FEZ
We all remember Billy saying that he & others were being pushed too much, playing too many games and that he'd be happy to play less for proportionately less pay to lengthen his career. Strike action was even mentioned. How prophetic. I feel for him - he's a fine player but is being over used to his own physical detriment.
As for Wightwasp's reaction to John Tee - I think you'll find that we all have the right to freely express opinions on these boards without being called "pathetic". Bit OTT
I was referring to the comment as pathetic not the person who posted it
Yes Hughes did have a brain fart but Maro and mako are penalty machines at international level and have been for a long time

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 16:54
I watch Wasps a lot and am always on the board.
Hughes did similar recently in a Wasps game and got sin binned.
Hughes was great last year and deservedly made the England squad once qualified but we needed 15 to have any chance of a result and he did the same thing that got
binned...
So, a) that was really not smart...which top sportsmen have to be, no doubt and
b) Hughes hasnt gotten back to his top game after injury.
Big guys take time to get match fit Imo, and he, like Billy
haven't been at their best Imo.
If Billy wasn't coming back from his injury out, and had more game time, I don't think Jones woukd have taken the risk on Hughes
England need both of them at their rollicking best and have been unlucky without injury set backs.
You don't need to play with 14 anytime but sometimes it migtht be acceptable... just...to take one for the team.
This definitely was not one of those.
Mako was very lucky too but you coukd his peno had as bad a consequence.
Both were silly and unnecessary.

I think that is true...not sure why anyone needs to get too partisan about it.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 18:06
The penalties are part and parcel of a team that evidently is trying too hard, is being put under pressure both on the pitch and off it. There is simply no joy in the faces of the England team and it shows in the way they are playing - in silly episodes like slaps and penalties given away and in ben youngs treatment of Gail. And in Owen's flawed decision yesterday in not 'taking the points' every time they were in a position to do so.

And I agree with the comment by FFFez about Billy. Too much too soon. Now that injury will affect Saracens yet again - and no doubt Eddie and the England honchos will not have learned and will try to bring him back too quickly. That arm needs months to repair properly - and to give Billy the proper time to build his fitness fully and feel confident in being 100% fit again.

I did notice the report about Eddie having apologised to Bruce Craig. I do not have any admiration for him, but the Bath Chairman absolutely has a right and even a duty to speak out about the number of injuries being suffered by players in England camps. After all it isnt as though they boys can say a word in their own defence. We are in a similar situation - Billy is likely to be out for at least three months, by which time it is likely that Eddie will not learn the lesson and take him straight back to England again. We will be the losers - and so will Billy.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
primavesi (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 12:16
Quote:
SBFez

Can we (Eddie Jones) please stop playing him before he's ready. It takes time for a player's body to 'harden' to the impacts of professional rugby- and Billy's impacts are larger than most. As much as he does now have a few weeks off surely this will affect his pre-season preparations and also his confidence in his own body if he keeps breaking.

So Saracens play him in the prem semi final and final May, but when he gets injured a month later Eddie Jones has bought him back too soon.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
SBFez (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 12:22
A fair point Primavesi- ideally he wouldn't have played so much for us towards the end of the season, maybe limited to a couple of bench appearances, but he's one of our best players and the team performs so much better with him so that was never going to happen. Also worth noting he didn't play 80 mins in either ( I don't believe happy to be corrected).

What I don't like is that he was clearly still gaining match fitness with us- and Eddie chucks him in for 80 mins against the most physical team in the world. It's hardly easing him back in. 50/60 mins would make me happier- a bench spot the happiest

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Roger G (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 12:39
Not quite sure how a broken arm is anything to do with match fitness or how much of a match he might play. IMHO he simply needed more time for the previous break to heal better, so I'd say we shouldn't have risked playing him either. However big the prize it is just a game...and a person's body, and possibly long term health, should not be sacrificed just for a bit of glory.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Rupes (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 16:48
If Billy wasn't fit, then Saracens shouldn't have played him. If he was (and you have to trust physios/coaches/doctors etc...), then he was fine to be selected.

As for the penalties, the Mako one was brainless. Has nothing to do with a team trying too hard, has everything to do with a complete lack of discipline. I'm a big fan of Mako just as many others are on his, but let's call it what it is! If Dylan Hartley, for example, did that, there would be people on this board demanding public flogging and the like.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 20:33
Saracens are as guilty as England of wanting Billy back to draw the play and bash holes in the defence. He is an important part of any team he plays for. If 'guilty' is the right adjective. Sarries did, in fairness to him, try to bring him back slowly - for example he only played half the match in the Prem semi final - an unquestionably important game with everything to play for, with Michael replacing him for the second half - a decision we were specifically told was not injury related. Before that, Saracens had been very careful about managing his re-introduction, with limited training and contact - and coming off the bench for short cameos, which everyone said, really showed his lack of fitness, so I don't entirely think the comparison with England is fair. Bringing him back for the Prem final was entirely understandable - after all it was the highlight of the entire club season for Saracens and the reason he is in the Saracens squad. You can be sure that HE would have wanted to play (but I am sure that is always true!). I am assuming he had been carefully assessed and aside from the hamstring, they felt he was ready to play for 60 minutes. Is it the same with a tour to South Africa? This is a step on a long journey - not a knockout tournament, even though it is a series. Yes, England are under the spotlight after so many losses - but was it worth playing Billy? Especially for the WHOLE first test without substition? I must admit I was really surprised at that! After all Eddie is the one who keeps repeating just how much tougher test match rugby is that the club competitions. He cant have it both ways!

I entirely agree Mako's penalty was downright stupid. Lack of discipline yes, and completely damaging for the team: he was lucky not to be sin binned - same with Maro's silly kick - but frustration also. Together with unforced errors across the team, questionable decisions - all painting a picture of a team trying to hard and not trusting in one another. They are individual misdemeanours, but I do think they are indicative of deeper problems.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 22:21
Playing him for longer than his fitness isn't a good idea and I agree he didn't look fit in those games although he looked up to speed in the last test, but you can't not be fit because your arm isnt ready for it. It either is healed or it isn't.
Unlucky fracture which could have happened at any time and if it wasn't healed, both are guilty.
England will miss Billy on Saturday because Hughes doesn't look the same player that got him picked in the first place.
I think England will have to rethink the back row against the Boks

 
Re: Billy injured again!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
19 June, 2018 17:40
John - I would agree with you if this were a new injury - but I am told (and think it has actually been reported) this is a re-fracture of the old arm injury which kept him out for so long.

I think my annoyance is in England deciding to play him for the entire match as mentioned - and train him all week, (despite him evidently really needing to!) Saracens were SO careful not to over play him; he didnt even train in the week before the final and they had been managing his recuperation very carefully. Bench replacement one week, half a game the next etc.

I'm sure Rupes is right and they had scanned his arm and didn't see anything that would worry them - (at least I really hope that is the case!!!!!) but it's clear that there is a recurrent problem now & he DEFINITELY needs plenty of time for it to heal properly. World cup or no world cup. IMHO one of the biggest problems England have had is an over reliance on BV. It was inevitable that with the collisions he is involved in that he would be injured at some point in the build up cycle - so why have they not adapted play to be less reliant on the No 8? Mark is a master of 'what if' and 'worst case scenarios'. Remember when Faz was sin binned a few years ago and it turned out they had actually discussed exactly what would happen if that occurred? They all knew immediately what to do and what their roles were.
No plan B. Or at least no plan to adapt to life without B!

 
Re: Billy injured again!
John Tee (IP Logged)
19 June, 2018 19:31
In an ideal world, they would have left BV and Hughes at home but Jones was desperate for a win to shore up his sinking ship. Nate Hughes was clearly not ready ..or in form, imo, but we needed a big 8 to counter the Boks. It failed, we lost and Jones has sacrificed a player for the short term. I don't really believe he has a long term plan...as opposed to a goal..anyway.
This tour should have been about getting more players upto speed and trialled but his disastrous 6 months meant he had to salvage something.
I expect a thorough review when this tour is over...that has to be standard practice, and despite the rfu proclaiming public support they must know that because they are committed to paying 2 years salary for the extension, then 3 years isn't prohibitively more.

At least BV is back to his club who understand his long term value.
If it comes out that players don't like the England camp or look forward to going away, then something will have to change.

I think the players are feeling the pressure things aren't right or working and they are getting a lot of stick. I get that they feel a siege mentality but it isn't working on the pitch and Rugby is hard to fluke a result...which England desperately need.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
JO'G (IP Logged)
20 June, 2018 07:57
evidently nick Isekwe was injured in training (hand) and won't play in the 3rd test

best we get him home quickly and get him back to his best

 
Re: Billy injured again!
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
20 June, 2018 17:58
Quote:
JO'G
evidently nick Isekwe was injured in training (hand) and won't play in the 3rd test
best we get him home quickly and get him back to his best

+1



676.97 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2017.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
plzd (IP Logged)
26 June, 2018 08:48
He will be whinging about how much he plays again I guess. Maybe he needs to get a less demanding job at Tesco

 
Re: Billy injured again!
plzd (IP Logged)
26 June, 2018 08:49
Quote:
DoubleChampions
Quote:
1876-Fez
Taken off just before 1/2 time..
FFS!!

We all know he should not be on the tour - the RFU need to get to grip with player welfare before clubs start refusing access
The player can tell the RF&U he needs a rest.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
plzd (IP Logged)
26 June, 2018 08:56
Quote:
F-F-F-FEZ
We all remember Billy saying that he & others were being pushed too much, playing too many games and that he'd be happy to play less for proportionately less pay to lengthen his career. Strike action was even mentioned. How prophetic. I feel for him - he's a fine player but is being over used to his own physical detriment.
As for Wightwasp's reaction to John Tee - I think you'll find that we all have the right to freely express opinions on these boards without being called "pathetic". Bit OTT

All has to do is tell the club he wants to play less games. Or tell EJ he odes not want to play for England to extend his career. Tennis players do this all the time they pick and choose where and when they want to play. To talk about striking is infantile and childish.
The guy is I guess a millionaire from playing a sporty many of us would love to be able to do at his level. He needs to stop whining and appreciate how lucky he has been.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
JO'G (IP Logged)
26 June, 2018 12:22
to suggest a player would turn down his country (with a very big playing fee) at any point except at the end of his career is crazy. Look at Schalla if you don't agree

The only time a player would turn down International caps is just after a World Cup when he realises that the contract he is about to sign would be worth say 30% more, if he signed an agreement never to play international rugby again. And even then as Waldrom proved, unless its written in the contract with penalty clauses you will change your mind if a new coach comes calling

 
Re: Billy injured again!
David@Sarries (IP Logged)
26 June, 2018 13:01
Perhaps this second break in the same place will persuade Billy to wear some form of protection on his forearm.

Billy has said that he dislikes wearing protection as it makes him think that he's injured.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
Dave Berko (IP Logged)
27 June, 2018 15:25
Quote:
plzd
Quote:
F-F-F-FEZ
We all remember Billy saying that he & others were being pushed too much, playing too many games and that he'd be happy to play less for proportionately less pay to lengthen his career. Strike action was even mentioned. How prophetic. I feel for him - he's a fine player but is being over used to his own physical detriment.
As for Wightwasp's reaction to John Tee - I think you'll find that we all have the right to freely express opinions on these boards without being called "pathetic". Bit OTT

All has to do is tell the club he wants to play less games. Or tell EJ he odes not want to play for England to extend his career. Tennis players do this all the time they pick and choose where and when they want to play. To talk about striking is infantile and childish.
The guy is I guess a millionaire from playing a sporty many of us would love to be able to do at his level. He needs to stop whining and appreciate how lucky he has been.

Stick to Tennis then!

Do you tell your employer 'when you want to go to work and when you don't'? Guess that's in a Tesco's contract then!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/06/2018 15:26 by Dave Berko.

 
Re: Billy injured again!
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
27 June, 2018 21:38
Wow! Don't bite - there's also nothing wrong with working for Tesco (employment is employment). Besides he's probably a ballboy .....(Sm14)


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?