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Stick or twist?
McSaracens (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 08:52
A lot of criticism of Mr Jones right now and rightly so. Iíd be interested in what everyone else thinks the RFU should do now, there is such little time to the World Cup, do they sack Jones now or stick with him until the World Cup?

It feels like England are between a rock and a hard place. Keep Jones and I canít see England winning more than 2/3 games before the World Cup. Sack him and who do you get? There are less than 10 games until the RWC.



ďI believe it might have been said before, but there is something special happening at Saracens, and I want to be part of it.Ē - Nils Mordt

 
Re: Stick or twist?
PotNoodleHorn (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 09:27
Lose him.... leopard can't change his spots (or love for Mike Brown) !!!

 
Re: Stick or twist?
LutonS (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 09:42
Stick for me. We brought Jones in with the stated aim of taking us through to the WC in Japan, It's too late to change coaches now and expect much of an improvement in the time left.

The two year extension to Jones' contract however looks like a hasty and poor decision.

As we are talking about the RFU here however, noting would surprise me.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Roger G (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 10:01
Make it a job-share for Rob Baxter, Dean Richards and Dai Jones (Sm100)

 
Re: Stick or twist?
dirtybertie (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 10:21
Get rid to arrogant to change and clearly canít work well with others

 
Re: Stick or twist?
SBFez (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 12:09
Stick. Not enough time.

It's worth remembering that we had a sticky patch this season that took a number of games to get out of. Yes, England's has been going on much longer, but in terms of games played it's not so different- and I think it is only through playing games and gradually righting wrongs that a team will truly grow. Maybe England's gutsy defeat to NZ in the Autumn will be our loss at Clermont, and the World Cup final our Premiership final... (shh I can dream)

 
Re: Stick or twist?
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 12:27
I don't think this team plays for him and particularly your boys. We can't go to the RWC without them and we'd be a different team if they could play their club form.
That would be in my top 3 tasks for the world cup..get your boys firing.

Jones can't do that, imo, so, twist.
My man is Edwards.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
flavman 35 (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 12:53
John tee seems to have captured my sentiments.
I have been saying exactly that, how comes the other coaches seem to be getting the best out of the likes of itoje and mako but Jones can't. He has his picks and that is that.
Cipriani got no more then 15 minutes. What was the point. He may now play him in a dead rubber again what is the point..
I would change or will do exactly what we are criticising Jones with doing and just carry on regardless

 
Re: Stick or twist?
MyCupRunnethOver (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 13:57
Stick, too late to switch. Clearly he has lost the plot somewhat and needs help.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Bboonie (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 14:10
As the great Martin Gillingham said. Why we at the beach training and not on the high Veldt?

 
Re: Stick or twist?
RuggyBuggy (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:15
The RFU should identify a successor for Eddie and bring him in initially as a new coach to fill existing vacancies with a view to taking over after the WC. That would avoid big upheaval, retain some semblance of compitancy and a media @#$%& storm. Eddie can retain the head coach title but has to play nice with the new guy, otherwise he is out on his @#$%&. Eddie has no real bargaining position here, if he won't accept it turf him out and leave him with the reputation of being the guy who brought England to their worst Six Nations and worst run of form in one hundred years. Eddie seems oblivious to the problems, leaving him in the job would be extremely reckless.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Steve Robo (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:18
Gustard leaving didn't exactly point to a happy camp, reading between the lines

 
Re: Stick or twist?
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:41
Indeed. Head coach at Quins wasn't exactly the best job to jump to, but hes taken it before a whole host of coaches become available after the rwc.

Odd that someone would 'leave' if you thought there were great times ahead...?

I think the story coming out of the England camp will be about more revealing in the next few weeks...depending how weak Jones actually is...

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Dazthelion (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 16:33
I really donít understand the case for ďstickĒ based on it being too late to change. What do those people think is going to happen between now and then or rather what would they like to see happen under EJ? Or is this suggestion made based on an acceptance we cannot now win the RWC and it will be about damage limitation?

I personally canít see what possible change EJ can make that will give us any chance of winning the RWC. He is not capable of the humility needed to admit some of his errors and has shown he does not change his views or approach, he just doubles down on his own opinion.

Admittedly iím from the camp that never wanted him through get the job and have always been concerned about his selections (which often favour a certain type of abrasive brains over brawn player, that I presume reminds him of himself), his inability (or lack of interest) to build depth in the squad, his attitude towards the English game, his disrespect for players and his horrific public comments.

For 2 years now players have got worse the longer they have been in camp, and now we have players that have recently looked like world beaters and showing immense control and discipline to win the Prem, not performing and showing Iíll discipline. Players who have poor all season, and been part of rotten Club setups, are still selected ahead of the Premís top performers over the past two years.

Twist, and twist the first day after they get back from South Africa. They donít need a world leading conservative arch to have a better chance of winning than we do today. Twist and we get a re-fresh and a confidence bounce in the camp. The players get a chance to draw a line under this run and start afresh building for the RWC. If the players play too their potential, not even beyond it, we will improve.

Edwards is my immediate thought but not alone. Can we get Alex King with him? Or Dean Richards and let him refresh the entire coaching team? Or get Woodward back briefly to build a coaching set up for the future? Donít be afraid to be short termist, but no action at all is consigning is to the 2nd RWC embarrassment in a row.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
mike909 (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 16:48
Quote:
John Tee
I don't think this team plays for him and particularly your boys. We can't go to the RWC without them and we'd be a different team if they could play their club form.
That would be in my top 3 tasks for the world cup..get your boys firing.

Jones can't do that, imo, so, twist.
My man is Edwards.

Sums up my position too. I am reminded of the words of Phil Kearns

[www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk]

 
Re: Stick or twist?
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 18:09
Keep him on - there is too little time to twist - but take some of his absolute authority away and put someone else in with strong opinions who he actually has respect for. Its about finding the right person. He will only listen to someone he feels is his equal in terms of experience and proven capability.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Rolls (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 18:37
Whatever, the result will be bust, Iím afraid.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 18:53
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Keep him on - there is too little time to twist - but take some of his absolute authority away and put someone else in with strong opinions who he actually has respect for. Its about finding the right person. He will only listen to someone he feels is his equal in terms of experience and proven capability.

I don't think Jones could do this. One of his great strengths is his cussedness... Although a current failing....so I don't think he listens well.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 22:42
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Keep him on - there is too little time to twist - but take some of his absolute authority away and put someone else in with strong opinions who he actually has respect for. Its about finding the right person. He will only listen to someone he feels is his equal in terms of experience and proven capability.

I don't think Jones could do this. One of his great strengths is his cussedness... Although a current failing....so I don't think he listens well.

Then John - (and unfortunately I can't really disagree with you) we have to simply accept that England aren't going to do very well for the next few years. People may say twist - (I really understand why) but to build a team takes time and understanding and England don't even have the equivalent of half a Premiership Season left before the next world cup, if you look at it in terms of games. Many of us have been asking pertinent questions for months if not years - those who saw simply results and a list of wins just accused us of pessimism - after all winning is all that matters, isnt it!!!!???? ((Sm133)) They accused us of not appreciating the wiser heads of those experienced in coaching. That may be so - but those questions of overtraining, of playing boys out of position, of not selecting on form, on not giving them the freedom to adapt to what is happening on the pitch have persisted and the justification for doubt has grown stronger and stronger. I hate to see players I respect and admire and who really are world class when given encouragement and self belief, reduced to panic and frustration, but that's what I saw on Saturday.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 08:37
I still think stick, because (despite increasing evidence to the contrary) I bloody-mindedly refuse to see England as a bad team.

However the thing that is most concerning in my view is that it is not at all clear what England are trying to do. How are they trying to go about winning?

In the early days of EJ it seemed reasonably clear: we would basically absorb attack after attack, play a territory game and try and grab 1 or 2 tries. And it worked.

Now I have absolutely no idea -- it looks like we're trying to speed things up a bit (a lighter more mobile back row), but Ford, Farrell, Slade, Brown don't exactly scream pace. We look like we're trying to score from all sorts of places (e.g. when we attacked from our own 5m line on Saturday and Faz chucked a forward pass), but again Mike Brown on that wing isn't really going to trouble many international wingers.

When Exeter play, you and they know exactly how they are planning to win. Same with Wasps. Same with Ireland. Same with Leinster. Same with us.

How did England plan on winning on Saturday? Absolutely no idea.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 09:21
Stick... And play the U20s for the final test, that would baffle everyone!!

 
Re: Stick or twist?
Adey (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 12:05
England didnít become a poor team overnight. Theyíre not going to become any better overnight either.

Write a blank cheque to Jake White until the end of the World Cup.

 
Re: Stick or twist?
JO'G (IP Logged)
19 June, 2018 12:31
The one advantage of the 2 year extension for Jones after the RWCup is that the RFU will have to cough up whatever happens - and 3 years money or 2 years is pretty academic

Personally he should go - the writing is on the wall; whatever the reasons the players are jumpy and ill-disciplined and won't play at their best.

I would be looking at the options now, so the new coach is in place for the Autumn Internationals - even if its just Borths


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