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Itoje
Barnesy (IP Logged)
14 October, 2018 02:20
Daily Mail after their bit on Lawes possibly going France say Maro is close to signing a new 3 or 4 year deal. (Sm128)

 
Re: Itoje
Innings (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 09:28
He'll stay, IMHO, and IMHO he needs to be told to stop acting like an immature child over his celebration behaviour. Wayne Barnes would have penalised his non-try celebrations on Sunday, and the sooner Maro is penalised for his own petulance, the better for him and the game.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 10:11
Quote:
Innings
He'll stay, IMHO, and IMHO he needs to be told to stop acting like an immature child over his celebration behaviour. Wayne Barnes would have penalised his non-try celebrations on Sunday, and the sooner Maro is penalised for his own petulance, the better for him and the game.

Well said. Itoje still gives away too penalties, yes I realise it's part of his game but just needs to tone it down a bit.

 
Re: Itoje
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 10:37
Immature child? Really!
Broken arm, 2 broken noses, other serious injuries to players, our players, but don't worry chaps just smile and swallow it, all part of the game don't you know!
Smacks of pink gins and old farts syndrome. He's perfectly entitled to react when he and his fellow players are targeted in the way they suddenly seem to be.
OTT? maybe, but he's perfectly entitled to react in that way especially when the on field shenanigans by players of all sides is seeing epidemic proportions of career ending injuries happening.
Sheesh.

 
Re: Itoje
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 10:57
Whilst at game on sunday,
my brother questioned why ref had played a penalty advantage to us on so long,that he allowed Glasgow to touch down?
Itoje wouldn’t have taken the mickey.....nothing to discuss!

 
Re: Itoje
Garp285 (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 11:24
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
Whilst at game on sunday,
my brother questioned why ref had played a penalty advantage to us on so long,that he allowed Glasgow to touch down?
Itoje wouldn’t have taken the mickey.....nothing to discuss!
I don't think he did play on. He blew up fairly quickly, iirc, but Glasgow just kept playing. I remember thinking at the time, "why are they still going, the ref blew about a minute ago?".

 
Re: Itoje
The Bard (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 11:25
Wasn’t impressed by it, doesn’t sit well with the ‘values’ we keep telling everyone about. He was absolutely immense again and worthy MOM though.

 
Re: Itoje
Barty II (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 11:32
Quote:
Jim 55
Immature child? Really!
Broken arm, 2 broken noses, other serious injuries to players, our players, but don't worry chaps just smile and swallow it, all part of the game don't you know!
Smacks of pink gins and old farts syndrome. He's perfectly entitled to react when he and his fellow players are targeted in the way they suddenly seem to be.
OTT? maybe, but he's perfectly entitled to react in that way especially when the on field shenanigans by players of all sides is seeing epidemic proportions of career ending injuries happening.
Sheesh.

Saracens core values.

Honesty - yes
Discipline - no
Work rate - definitely
Humility - no

What's the point in having them in massive letters around our ground if we don't follow them. I think in isolation Maro's reaction is very understandable but if we're supposed to be holding ourselves to this high standard there can't be exceptions.

 
Re: Itoje
16 October, 2018 11:52
I think this is a total storm in a tea-cup, I don't like it IF it was childish, petulant behaviour. BUT I don't think it was.
A key point: It doesn't fit with the culture, positive energy and celebrating our success is what we do. A big defensive set where Glasgow come up with nothing is perfectly appropriate. Saracens routinely do this. Makes us tough to beat, and motivates us on field.
If you saw the Sarries forwards jogging off at half-time they we're laughing with smiles on their faces (particularly Skelton). Just had a big defensive set, and repelled Glasgow again. 'That's Disgraceful behaviour', would say the po-faced, jealous Sarries haters. "Yellow cards all round !' It's the only way they would have beaten us.

For those wanting a citing - get a life. Much bigger issues to deal with, like the broken noses.

Second point: The whole issue arose because of the highly biased Scottish co-commentator (think it was Andy Nicol) interpreted it that way, which was his mistake, borne from his total lack of understanding of Sarries, and judging Maro by his own poor standards. He had zero to say about Ryan Wilson's off-the-ball tactics all game.

Bigger issue is when will BT Sport get a co-commentator who is Sarries biased. We got a one-eyed, whinging Scot and Diallagio on Sunday on TV (& we know what he thinks of us). He was nearly choking during his positive analysis of our try at half-time. BOD much more level headed.

Carry-on Maro. Man of the Match.

 
Re: Itoje
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 11:53
Put it in context. I agree he needs to try to tone it down - but as jim said, I have rarely seen a more unpleasant natured game with repeated off the ball pushes and punches, kicks and holding on to players to stop them entering the breakdown. Glasgow were pretty disreputable and M Raynaud didnt stop it right from the outset. They are trained to be a team, to look after one another. One piece of nastiness aimed at one of them is aimed at them all. The counter response of course is that they all know that a reaction will cost the team. That's why I look at how Jamie or Brad react. We all know them. It takes a lot to get them that fired up and angry. If they are that upset, it is no wonder Maro was.

 
Re: Itoje
whyisitnevereasy (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 12:05
McEnroe, Nastase, Woods, Gascoigne,Rooney,Fury. Mcgregor all only seemed to be seen at their best when acting like spoilt petulant arrogant little brats. It's what gave them the edge.they got off on winding people up. If you took that out of their game they wouldn't have been the same sportsperson. If it helps Maro be the player that he is then I'm all for it.



The ship may now enter harbour negative oilskins



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/10/2018 12:07 by whyisitnevereasy.

 
Re: Itoje
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 12:07
I agree with Jim55. Complete non story. Its the equivalent of sledging in Cricket. It goes on all the time. I think in Maro's defence he happened to be on the periphery of the celebration by the warriors and got hustled into it by joining warrior players. Storm in a tea cup.

Glasgow were using all the wind up tricks on Sunday. Why shouldn't we have a bit of fun at their expense during the game? They all shook hands and applauded each other off at the end.

 
Re: Itoje
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 12:48
Agree with those above who are saying it's a non story and non event.

To quote Billy after scoring against Quins last week and mocking Danny Care: "when someone does it to us its ok, but when we do it we're not being humble."


I thought it was funny. It's a game, let's not be too po-faced about it.

 
Re: Itoje
F-F-F-FEZ (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 12:51
Quote:
Jim 55
Immature child? Really!
Broken arm, 2 broken noses, other serious injuries to players, our players, but don't worry chaps just smile and swallow it, all part of the game don't you know!
Smacks of pink gins and old farts syndrome. He's perfectly entitled to react when he and his fellow players are targeted in the way they suddenly seem to be.
OTT? maybe, but he's perfectly entitled to react in that way especially when the on field shenanigans by players of all sides is seeing epidemic proportions of career ending injuries happening.
Sheesh.

Odd that only Loz been cited. There was plenty of dangerous play going down on Sunday

 
Re: Itoje
DoubleChampions (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 18:01
Quote:
F-F-F-FEZ
Quote:
Jim 55
Immature child? Really!
Broken arm, 2 broken noses, other serious injuries to players, our players, but don't worry chaps just smile and swallow it, all part of the game don't you know!
Smacks of pink gins and old farts syndrome. He's perfectly entitled to react when he and his fellow players are targeted in the way they suddenly seem to be.
OTT? maybe, but he's perfectly entitled to react in that way especially when the on field shenanigans by players of all sides is seeing epidemic proportions of career ending injuries happening.
Sheesh.

Odd that only Loz been cited. There was plenty of dangerous play going down on Sunday

Agreed re citing decision. Also found it very odd that any team would choose to try and go toe to toe with us - Harlequins and Glasgow have only proved to show how resilient and strong (both mentally and physically) we are and trying to rough up our pack is a futile waste of energy. Still if you cannot outplay us .......

 
Re: Itoje
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
16 October, 2018 23:08
Having now watched the replay I am totally amazed at Loz' s citing. Would certainly think a no case to answer result is possible.

As for comments about Maro, I don't agree at all. He's a passionate young man and there's nothing wrong with that. As for talk of penalties for his actions you can't go making up the laws just because you're not keen on something. The old adage of don't dish it out if you can't take it is entirely appropriate here. Glasgow were trying to emulate Quins with constant wind ups. Much better to concentrate on the rugby.

 
Re: Itoje
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
17 October, 2018 05:10
If I’d had the odious Ryan Wilson in my face all game I’d have probably done the same. If you’re going to dish it out you can’t complain when it comes back to you. Possibly the moaning Glasgow (and other) fans need to look at Wilson and his mates first.

Itoje seems to be getting a lot of flak for celebrating scrum penalties etc, everyone does that, not really sure why he’s been singled out here. You should probably be flattered.

 
Re: Itoje
mfc (IP Logged)
17 October, 2018 08:47
Agree Exile, seems to be a blind eye to the Sh£te housery on behalf of Ryan and chums. Quins did the same a week earlier, problem is it’s putting us off our game. Obviously a tactic, we need to figure out a way to deal with it.

 
Re: Itoje
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
17 October, 2018 18:22
Did think it was rather amusing the commentator (Andrew Cotter I think) trying to whip up an anti-Itoje Twitter storm. Bit rose tinted I thought.

 
Re: Itoje
AP (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 01:32
What irritates me about the celebrating of the scrum penalties is that we seem as a consequence to be less likely to take a quick tap and go.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

 
Re: Itoje
David@Sarries (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 11:39
The one-eyed, biased Scottish co-commentator was Scott Hastings. As usual, he was wearing his tartan glasses and is totally and completely incapable of seeing any view other than a Scottish one.

I've listened to rugby commentary all over the world and he is by far and away the most biased.

 
Re: Itoje
villagesarrie (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:07
On Rugby Tonight, Ugo said he thought people were trying to make more out of that "celebration" than was necessary (I got the feeling he thought it was quite amusing). Needless to say Dallaglio then made a big thing out of it by repeating the mantra (about humility etc etc) we have at AzP, which, coming from him, not one of rugby's most humble players, IMO, was quite amusing too.

 
Re: Itoje
moo-moo (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:17
Quote:
David@Sarries
The one-eyed, biased Scottish co-commentator was Scott Hastings. As usual, he was wearing his tartan glasses and is totally and completely incapable of seeing any view other than a Scottish one.
I've listened to rugby commentary all over the world and he is by far and away the most biased.

I said the same thing to my husband. He's shocking.

 
Re: Itoje
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:19
Quote:
villagesarrie
On Rugby Tonight, Ugo said he thought people were trying to make more out of that "celebration" than was necessary (I got the feeling he thought it was quite amusing). Needless to say Dallaglio then made a big thing out of it by repeating misquoting the mantra (about humility etc etc) we have at AzP, which, coming from him, not one of rugby's most humble players, IMO, was quite amusing too.

Amused me in BT's summary where the numpty tried to make a point that away wins in the Champions Cup were rare - he called it the Heineken's Champions Trophy, said there were only four away wins in R1 (there were five, one draw from 10 games)!

Time for a Dallaglioballs thread?

[A Monyeballs from last year was his marvelling at a kick that "bisected the back three".]

 
Re: Itoje
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:25
Sorry, so it was Scott Hastings? Was one of the most ridiculous (and possibly irresponsible) comments and pieces of one eyed commentaries I’ve heard .

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:55
Quote:
whyisitnevereasy
McEnroe, Nastase, Woods, Gascoigne,Rooney,Fury. Mcgregor all only seemed to be seen at their best when acting like spoilt petulant arrogant little brats. It's what gave them the edge.they got off on winding people up. If you took that out of their game they wouldn't have been the same sportsperson. If it helps Maro be the player that he is then I'm all for it.


Not sure it's a good example because most of them are very unlikeable.

Fury and Mcgregor especially - it's been satisfying to see them fall.

Woods was actually at his best when pretending to be a saint rather than the sex addict he was.


Back to this incident.

I find Ugo a bit of a muppet to be honest. He's by far the worst pundit. I am no pundit but I regularly make more insightful comments than him.

I like Dallaglio.


Gazzafez you might not be calling Itoje's behaviour okay if it costs Saracens dear.


Showboating or winding up the position can sometimes be punished.

Burns' showboating cost his team a vital win.

Itoje's poor discipline could be costly.

Getting away with poor discipline doesn't necessarily mean that player X will always get away with it.

 
Re: Itoje
Essex-Sarrie (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 13:04
He wasn't showboating at all, I struggle to understand how everyone in the stadium heard the whistle apart from Warriors?

They keep playing and score 'a try' and act hard done by? Everyone had stopped, it was obvious. Itoje didn't act with humility and I didn't agree with it but it wasn't the heinous act that some make it sound.

 
Re: Itoje
AP (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 13:28
Quote:
moo-moo
Quote:
David@Sarries
The one-eyed, biased Scottish co-commentator was Scott Hastings. As usual, he was wearing his tartan glasses and is totally and completely incapable of seeing any view other than a Scottish one.
I've listened to rugby commentary all over the world and he is by far and away the most biased.

I said the same thing to my husband. He's shocking.

You'll have to watch with someone else if your husband's that bad, then!

I wonder why Scott Hastings found little to criticise with Adam Hasting's performance?

 
Re: Itoje
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 13:34
Quote:
David@Sarries
I've listened to rugby commentary all over the world and he is by far and away the most biased.

Worse that Dallaglio commentating on a Wasps game? I don't believe it!

 
Re: Itoje
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
20 October, 2018 06:57
As an outsider, I actually thought MI's "celebration" was funny and has nothing to do with giving pens away whilst playing which is a separate issue. It's nothing, really.

 
Re: Itoje
Innings (IP Logged)
20 October, 2018 20:47
Well, directing his attention to the game, and foregoing the celebration stuff, certainly didn't do him any harm today.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Itoje
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 07:28
Quote:
Innings
Well, directing his attention to the game, and foregoing the celebration stuff, certainly didn't do him any harm today.

I'll pre-empt the moral outrage/bread buttered both sides brigade then:

"Itoje was a disgrace not celebrating the team's successes, doesn't he know it's a team sport? He always makes it all about him"

"Itoje was a disgrace not celebrating the opposition's successes, doesn't he know that rugby is all about the brother(sister)hood of (wo)man? He always makes it all about him"

 
Re: Itoje
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 08:11
As usual a sportsman(person?) is put on a pedestal for the critics to throw brickbats at. He will undoubtedly rise above it. There's a 'losers' board in particular devoting a whole thread to his apparent failings. Perhaps they should look to their own team to see failure. He's a young bloke and unfortunately they do daft things - over exuberance isn't a crime, yet. His team mates will put him right if he overdoes it.

 
Re: Itoje
mfc (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 11:01
Maro was a rampaging beast yesterday

 
Re: Itoje
Innings (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 12:32
Quote:
mfc
Maro was a rampaging beast yesterday
which is the better answer to his critics than to get all religious about a youth having a big day out.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

 
Re: Itoje
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 19:19
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
As usual a sportsman(person?) is put on a pedestal for the critics to throw brickbats at. He will undoubtedly rise above it. There's a 'losers' board in particular devoting a whole thread to his apparent failings. Perhaps they should look to their own team to see failure. He's a young bloke and unfortunately they do daft things - over exuberance isn't a crime, yet. His team mates will put him right if he overdoes it.

I wonder which board that is...?!! smiling smiley



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: Itoje
David@Sarries (IP Logged)
21 October, 2018 21:02
Quote:
SarrieSaint
Quote:
David@Sarries
I've listened to rugby commentary all over the world and he is by far and away the most biased.

Worse that Dallaglio commentating on a Wasps game? I don't believe it!

Yes, much worse.

I once watched a Lions tour game with Australian commentators and Hastings was more biased than them. It was the game where McRae thumped RO’G and they were wondering what O’Gara had done!

 
Re: Itoje
samlee99 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 10:40
Quote:
Jim 55
Immature child? Really!
Broken arm, 2 broken noses, other serious injuries to players, our players, but don't worry chaps just smile and swallow it, all part of the game don't you know!
Smacks of pink gins and old farts syndrome. He's perfectly entitled to react when he and his fellow players are targeted in the way they suddenly seem to be.
OTT? maybe, but he's perfectly entitled to react in that way especially when the on field shenanigans by players of all sides is seeing epidemic proportions of career ending injuries happening.
Sheesh.

Nigel Owens regards him as immature and I'd take his opinion ahead of yours I'm afraid.

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 11:04
Quote:
mfc
Maro was a rampaging beast yesterday

He really was and that's really all I care about. The celebration thing has been beaten to death by the sanctimonious crew in rugby who believe they are above any and everything especially some ex players who have rather short memories about what they did on the field.

What I really care about is that Maro seems back his best, he is carrying much better and running better angles in attack and long many that continue.Also so glad to have Kruis back to his best, he really has been unlucky wih injuries, but he looks back to the Kruis of 2016 and that is a massive bonus for us and England.

We have not played well the last few weeks, but we keep winning. Now time to watch the youngsters play and hopefully England go well in the autumn.

 
Re: Itoje
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 11:44
Congratulations on your patience Barnet - the following comment

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
he thinks Billy and Itoje are dicks, we can't change his mind and we should not even try either.

No you shouldn't, mostly because it's a matter of opinion.

Also, you would find a way to defend Sarries players if they stabbed someone in the street.

would have had my response of "only if it was you!" He's not called 'ballsache' for nothing and goes on all the other sites with his spiteful comments. (Of course stabbing someone is not to be condoned however obnoxious they may be.(Sm147))

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 12:09
Haha tbf even people on their board call him out on it. The whole thing was overblown, should Itoje have done it, no, should it have been the massive deal it became, also no. I would much rather spend time analysing actual rugby things than worrying about a try celebration or in this case a non try celebration.

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 13:43
So it's okay to act badly if they play well?

Is that all matters to you?

No one is denying Itoje's talent, it's just his attitude is still a work in progress.


I know in the eyes of some posters - every single Saracens player is perfect but sadly it's not reality. Ballsout is correct in that sense - you would defend Saracens players in any circumstance.

It's important to be realistic.


Itoje is meant to be a role model and is paid a lot of money - he shouldn't be petulant.

Do we have the right to criticise him? Yes.

It's not me who putting Itoje on a pedestal - it's those who believe Itoje and other Saracens players can do no wrong.

The way to solve a problem is first admit there is one.

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 13:52
Quote:
beshocked
So it's okay to act badly if they play well?
Is that all matters to you?

No one is denying Itoje's talent, it's just his attitude is still a work in progress.


I know in the eyes of some posters - every single Saracens player is perfect but sadly it's not reality. Ballsout is correct in that sense - you would defend Saracens players in any circumstance.

It's important to be realistic.


Itoje is meant to be a role model and is paid a lot of money - he shouldn't be petulant.

Do we have the right to criticise him? Yes.

It's not me who putting Itoje on a pedestal - it's those who believe Itoje and other Saracens players can do no wrong.

The way to solve a problem is first admit there is one.

First of all, I am actually harder on sarries players than anyone else and I frequently criticise them. I just do not care about some sort of fake celebration and use that as a barometer for whether someone is a role model or not, which is stupid. I also did not care about what Zebo did on saturday as I am not in the moral police crowd of rugby, of which there are many there.

I do not care about criticising his particular action, that is fine, but commenting on his attitude is stupid in my opinion, just like talking about his being a role model. All i see is a 23 year old who went to uni and graduated, who by all accounts is the last person to leave training and works hard on his game, has never been red carded, banned or anything like that, has never ever gotten in any trouble off the field, so because he fake celebrated, I should now act like he has a problem. Some of the comments to this have been delusional to say the least.

I will repeat, should he or Billy have done that, no, was it a big deal, no, but again rugby has the morality police so I guess both guys strayed away from what the moral police would consider acceptable.

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:08
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
beshocked
So it's okay to act badly if they play well?
Is that all matters to you?

No one is denying Itoje's talent, it's just his attitude is still a work in progress.


I know in the eyes of some posters - every single Saracens player is perfect but sadly it's not reality. Ballsout is correct in that sense - you would defend Saracens players in any circumstance.

It's important to be realistic.


Itoje is meant to be a role model and is paid a lot of money - he shouldn't be petulant.

Do we have the right to criticise him? Yes.

It's not me who putting Itoje on a pedestal - it's those who believe Itoje and other Saracens players can do no wrong.

The way to solve a problem is first admit there is one.

First of all, I am actually harder on sarries players than anyone else and I frequently criticise them. I just do not care about some sort of fake celebration and use that as a barometer for whether someone is a role model or not, which is stupid. I also did not care about what Zebo did on saturday as I am not in the moral police crowd of rugby, of which there are many there.

I do not care about criticising his particular action, that is fine, but commenting on his attitude is stupid in my opinion, just like talking about his being a role model. All i see is a 23 year old who went to uni and graduated, who by all accounts is the last person to leave training and works hard on his game, has never been red carded, banned or anything like that, has never ever gotten in any trouble off the field, so because he fake celebrated, I should now act like he has a problem. Some of the comments to this have been delusional to say the least.

I will repeat, should he or Billy have done that, no, was it a big deal, no, but again rugby has the morality police so I guess both guys strayed away from what the moral police would consider acceptable.

Can't say I've ever heard you criticise any Saracens player but that's fair enough.I do respect your loyalty to the players even if we differ in our view points. We can agree to disagree.

Didn't see the Zebo incident so I can't judge.No one is denying Itoje's workrate or indeed his talent, it's his attitude and lack of maturity.

Yes he's a young man but surely he needs to grow out of this behaviour? No I don't like it when things are just swept under the carpet. Itoje gives away a lot of penalties.

Just because occasionally players get away with stuff doesn't mean that the problem isn't there.


It depends if you want Saracens players to practice their slogans emblazoned on the stadium or not.I'd personally like them to but if it's just about winning - fair enough - you are entitled to that opinion.


Again it doesn't matter that Glasgow were acting badly, it's up to Saracens to stick to higher standards. Set the benchmark.Do I think that Itoje's attitude is as good as other Saracens players? No.Certain players in the Saracens squad need to learn from their team mates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2018 14:09 by beshocked.

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:20
Itoje giving away lots of penalties again is a rugby issue, Richie McCaw gave away a lot of penalties, does not make him a bad role model.

I don't have a problem with anyone criticizing any player for his play on the field, no player is beyond criticism, my issue is with players and talk about being a role model as I did not know that giving away penalties on the rugby field makes you a bad role model.

Again can you point to a specific example of his bad attitude or supposed bad attitude, everyone at sarries celebrates turnovers and big moments within games, not just maro, many players at other clubs do the same, it is not meant to disrespect the opposition, these players are playing a very physical game and I don't see what is wrong with them celebrating good things they do on the field.

Itoje's so called bad attitude is that he celebrates on the field, something other people do and certainly everyone at sarries does, so please give me a specific example of his bad attitude that he only does. Even the celebration against Glasgow, he was not the only one there doing it, Billy was also in there and Alex Loz, did we hear any criticism of those guys in the media, nope.

There is an agenda against the guy in my opinion and I will defend anyone from any club who i see people pilling on, even Dylan Hartley who I have defended.

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:29
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Itoje giving away lots of penalties again is a rugby issue, Richie McCaw gave away a lot of penalties, does not make him a bad role model.
I don't have a problem with anyone criticizing any player for his play on the field, no player is beyond criticism, my issue is with players and talk about being a role model as I did not know that giving away penalties on the rugby field makes you a bad role model.

Again can you point to a specific example of his bad attitude or supposed bad attitude, everyone at sarries celebrates turnovers and big moments within games, not just maro, many players at other clubs do the same, it is not meant to disrespect the opposition, these players are playing a very physical game and I don't see what is wrong with them celebrating good things they do on the field.

Itoje's so called bad attitude is that he celebrates on the field, something other people do and certainly everyone at sarries does, so please give me a specific example of his bad attitude that he only does. Even the celebration against Glasgow, he was not the only one there doing it, Billy was also in there and Alex Loz, did we hear any criticism of those guys in the media, nope.

There is an agenda against the guy in my opinion and I will defend anyone from any club who i see people pilling on, even Dylan Hartley who I have defended.

I'd love Itoje to become as impressive a role model as Richie Mccaw.

Oh right so now, we shouldn't criticise players when they do something unprofessional?

The giving away penalties is a rugby issue, winding up the opposition and being niggly is an attitude issue.

His over the top mocking celebration earlier in the year when he was playing poorly for England. These kind of things are unnecessary.

Again just because another player does it - does not mean it should be accepted as good conduct.

Well that's where we'd differ - I see Hartley as a very bad role model. Then again Eddie Jones likes "bad boys".

Jones has treated Jamie George like dirt IMO.


Itoje is also an intelligent man - I expect him to have higher standards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2018 14:33 by beshocked.

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:41
We will just have to agree to disagree mate. I think Danny Cipriani has an issue because he gets in trouble off the field. Hartley is not someone I will put in that mould and If the worst thing Itoje gets up to is that he over celebrates, I will take that.

I am not saying he is a choir boy, but then neither was Johnson, Grewcock, Shaw, Etzebeth, Botha or any other great second row, he celebrates, some others fought, some others punched.

I would rather he over celebrates in a game where the opposition is deliberately targeting him than him throwing a punch or doing anything else stupid.

Again maybe that is just me as I don't believe in the moral sanctity of rugby like some old school rugby people want us to believe.

I love Martin Johnson and we all celebrate him, but this was the same guy who was banned for punching Julian White, Kneeing Duncan McRae and then stamping on McRae in the same game, I don't remember many people telling Johnson to change, but when Itoje celebrates or Hartley gets in trouble, they are bad people. It is also rich hearing from a Bath fan about a second row being a role model when they celebrate Danny Grewcock like he was Jesus, and i doubt anyone collected bans and red cards as much as Grewcock did.

As for McCaw, one of my 3 favourite players of all time, but a penalty machine, see article below from NZ where they discuss it.


[www.stuff.co.nz]

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:49
Also I am not great fan of Jones, but how has he treated Jamie George like dirt? He chose Hartley as his captain and he plays him, what is wrong with that. I might not agree with Hartley as captain, but for me it has to be for rugby reasons.

That is why I did not get this Hartley can't play because he has been banned in the past nonsense, I did not hear all of that stuff when Martin Johnson was punching people on the field, or Grewcock or many other "old" school types that people love to pontificate over.

It just shows the crazy standard of rugby and what is wrong with always imposing morality in these things, we love Martin Johnson and he is held as a great figure of what a captain should be and kids should look at Martin Johnson the great captain, yet he was banned countless times and should have been banned countless other times, but when it comes to Hartley, it is a problem.

Loads of people like to pick and choose what is a problem and what is not a problem.

 
Re: Itoje
villagesarrie (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 14:55
I also remember Johnno getting banned for thumping Robbie Russell IIRC (picked him up and thumped him so it wasn't a sly slap in a ruck) in a game at Vicarage Road and everyone just shook their heads and said (almost) "ahh well, that's Johnno for you"!I wasn't reading the forums in those days assuming there were such things so don't know whether there was much condemnation of the incident.I didn't think it was acceptable at the time or now but Itoje's behaviour is in no way comparable although anyone would think it was worse the way it has been blown up.

 
Re: Itoje
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 15:06
I seem to remember a certain Ben Russell not taking a backward step and lumping Johnson much to the amusement of some of us! Circa 2005(Sm110)

The first sight to greet visitors is a huge photo of Martin Johnson being punched by the young Saracens forward Ben Russell. Diamond reads out the slogan beside it: "Do what has to be done, when it has to be done, as best as you can."

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