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Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 15:08
VillageSarrie, If Hartley did half the things Johnson did on the rugby field, people would be calling for him to be banned from rugby permanently.

Julian White received 5 red cards in his career, he was seen as a hard man and he is beloved by Leicester and England fans. I have mentioned Johnson who punched, stamped and did other things on the field, Grewcock the same. I am not saying Hartley is a choir boy, but for people to be talking about Itoje having an attitude problem and at the same time talking about how great Johnson was as a player and captain is beyond ironic to me.

One guy has an attitude problem for celebrating, the other guy is lauded as a great player and captain, which he was, but went round delivering jungle justice on the rugby field, but we love it as he was "Hard"

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 15:10
Hartley didn't deserve to start because George had been outplaying him for at least two years.That's even before we consider that Hartley's disciplinary record.


I'd personally rather not have an England captain with such a poor record but then again I don't have the win at all costs attitude.I am disillusioned with the England rugby team at the moment at will probably not change till Jones is gone.


Itoje shouldn't be taking tips on discipline from any of those 2nd rows to be honest. Mccaw gave away penalties but as a role model, great role model.

It's not sporting what Itoje did. When Martin Johnson was acting dirty did you applaud those particular actions? I doubt it.

Martin Johnson was a talented player but it does mean that his disciplinary issues should just be ignored.

Richard Hill was arguably more talented than Johnson and didn't see the need to act like Johnson.

I'd rather use Hill as a role model for a rugby player but that's just my personal opinion.



It's up to you to ignore the faults of players if you want. Oh and I think you can be hard without being thuggish -Barritt is hard as nails puts his body and face on the line every game.

One of the best role models at the club is Barritt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2018 15:13 by beshocked.

 
Re: Itoje
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 15:16
That's fair enough beshocked, my point is that the hypocrisy of a lot of fans. You seem consistent which is fair enough. As for Johnson, I really did not change my opinion of him because he punched people, he was a great player and most great players in most sports are not choir boys.

I love Richard Hill, but he was not captain of the team, the 2 most successful captains of the late to early 00's in Dallaglio and Johnson were no choir boys and Dallagio also had his off the field issue.

My issue with fans is when you have Leicester fans who are absolutely besotted with Julian White talking about how bad Dylan Hartley is and how he should not play for England, when White was several times worse than Hartley. If we had the cameras we had now as we did then, guys like Julian White, Johnson etc would have been spent half the season being banned.

 
Re: Itoje
Adey (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 20:13
You know when youíre enjoying reading a thread and then BarnetSarrie turns up and starts writing War and Peace again... yawn

 
Re: Itoje
RobV (IP Logged)
22 October, 2018 20:55
I feel like everyone has forgotten Danny Grewcock.

 
Re: Itoje
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
23 October, 2018 07:43
I'm sorry, but I think you've got blinkers on if you don't recognise that Maro 'celebrates' our successes, and occasionally opposition mistakes, more often and more obviously than most players. The latter is not a pleasant trait and is totally unnecessary.

I also think it is fair to point out that if one of our core values is 'Humility' some of our behaviour does not fufil that remit.

I love having Maro playing for Sarries but people can always improve and as has been pointed out he is an intelligent, articulate young man and should be aware that some of his behaviour is unnecessary.

 
Re: Itoje
Roger G (IP Logged)
23 October, 2018 09:24
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
I seem to remember a certain Ben Russell not taking a backward step and lumping Johnson much to the amusement of some of us! Circa 2005(Sm110)
The first sight to greet visitors is a huge photo of Martin Johnson being punched by the young Saracens forward Ben Russell. Diamond reads out the slogan beside it: "Do what has to be done, when it has to be done, as best as you can."

Err, I wouldn't use Diamond's motivational methods as an example tprh! My chosen description of him would be "moderated" so let's just say he's a bit of a numpty IMHO.

 
Re: Itoje
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
23 October, 2018 10:41
Err, I wasn't suggesting they use 'the numpty's' methods'. It was a cut and paste from the reporting of Ben Russell's stand up to Johnson, albeit a probable poor one. (Sm111)

 
Re: Itoje
Roger G (IP Logged)
23 October, 2018 11:19
Sorry tprh, I realised that - should've added a smiley. No offence intended.(Sm164)

 
Re: Itoje
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
23 October, 2018 14:36
No probs.(Sm108)

 
Re: Itoje
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
24 October, 2018 11:54
Maro makes a mint out of sponsorship deals. I imagine one or more of his sponsors might be having a word about celebrating opposition errors.

I'd also like to see refs penalising "game values offences". In the Mitre 10 Cup, a player patted the head of the opposition player who had been penalised; the ref reversed the penalty; the old school commentators hated it - I thought it was splendid.



£676.97 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2017.

 
Re: Itoje
24 October, 2018 12:54
Don't know if anyone saw the Euro highlights show but Simon Zebo got a little excited just before scoring. The referee interpreted his act as unsporting and instructed him to apologize to the opposition defender .Point being, if Nigel Owens can officiate in this way, why can't all the referees. Just a thought

 
Re: Itoje
samlee99 (IP Logged)
24 October, 2018 16:32
Quote:
Eric Browett
I'm sorry, but I think you've got blinkers on if you don't recognise that Maro 'celebrates' our successes, and occasionally opposition mistakes, more often and more obviously than most players. The latter is not a pleasant trait and is totally unnecessary.
I also think it is fair to point out that if one of our core values is 'Humility' some of our behaviour does not fufil that remit.

I love having Maro playing for Sarries but people can always improve and as has been pointed out he is an intelligent, articulate young man and should be aware that some of his behaviour is unnecessary.

Precisely. Itoje is a wonderful player and it's a great shame that his reputation is being tarnished by his childish and totally unnecessary behaviour. In past times he would have been taught how to behave by the odd haymaker from the opposition but that doesn't happen nowadays so it's up to his teammates and coaches to sort him out before his behaviour costs his team as referees says enough is enough.

 
Re: Itoje
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 07:14
The guy is 23 ffs!!
Everybody put your Daily Mailís down & relax
I have even seen people moaning about Maroís celebration at Olympic stadium V Quins.....unbelievable!
Smally has spoken to him lets all move on.....please



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: Itoje
AP (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 07:27
Quote:
Viewfromthearmchair
Don't know if anyone saw the Euro highlights show but Simon Zebo got a little excited just before scoring. The referee interpreted his act as unsporting and instructed him to apologize to the opposition defender .Point being, if Nigel Owens can officiate in this way, why can't all the referees. Just a thought

I'm sure you can find people who'll regard that as Nigel feeling he was being upstaged and finding a way to get the attention back on himself!

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 09:26
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
The guy is 23 ffs!!
Everybody put your Daily Mailís down & relax
I have even seen people moaning about Maroís celebration at Olympic stadium V Quins.....unbelievable!
Smally has spoken to him lets all move on.....please

I was going to say no more till you posted this.

You come in late to a conversation and tell people to relax.

It's you who needs to relax.

Maro might be only 23 but the funny thing is Maro's actions have got worse in the last year. Someone needs to talk to him and calm him down.

Oh and Maro's celebration at Olympic Stadium was embarrassing. He had a poor 6 nations which was not to his normal high standards. In that situation - a player should be trying to apologise not mocking.


Just because he's a Saracens player doesn't mean we should applaud this behaviour.

The England side need to get some credibility back. The 6 nations was embarrassingly poor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/10/2018 09:27 by beshocked.

 
Re: Itoje
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 10:11
Quote:
beshocked
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
The guy is 23 ffs!!
Everybody put your Daily Mailís down & relax
I have even seen people moaning about Maroís celebration at Olympic stadium V Quins.....unbelievable!
Smally has spoken to him lets all move on.....please

I was going to say no more till you posted this.

You come in late to a conversation

and tell people to relax.

It's you who needs to relax.

Maro might be only 23 but the funny thing is Maro's actions have got worse in the last year. Someone needs to talk to him and calm him down.

Oh and Maro's celebration at Olympic Stadium was embarrassing. He had a poor 6 nations which was not to his normal high standards. In that situation - a player should be trying to apologise not mocking.


Just because he's a Saracens player doesn't mean we should applaud this behaviour.

The England side need to get some credibility back. The 6 nations was embarrassingly poor.

I can assure you I am very relaxed & I come to this thread late because I wanted to digest some of previous posts on this subject!
I dont stick up for him because he is a saracens player nor do I criticise him because he is a sarries player,as some do!
He was amongst many who had a poor six nations including the coach!
He has an edge to his game some people like & some dont.....we dont know what was said to him during Glasgow but that doesnt excuse his actions
If you fail to see humour in his try celebration V Quins which was aimed at press,then we wont agree on much!



European champions 2016 & 2017

 
Re: Itoje
beshocked (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 11:28
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
Quote:
beshocked
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
The guy is 23 ffs!!
Everybody put your Daily Mailís down & relax
I have even seen people moaning about Maroís celebration at Olympic stadium V Quins.....unbelievable!
Smally has spoken to him lets all move on.....please

I was going to say no more till you posted this.

You come in late to a conversation

and tell people to relax.

It's you who needs to relax.

Maro might be only 23 but the funny thing is Maro's actions have got worse in the last year. Someone needs to talk to him and calm him down.

Oh and Maro's celebration at Olympic Stadium was embarrassing. He had a poor 6 nations which was not to his normal high standards. In that situation - a player should be trying to apologise not mocking.


Just because he's a Saracens player doesn't mean we should applaud this behaviour.

The England side need to get some credibility back. The 6 nations was embarrassingly poor.

I can assure you I am very relaxed & I come to this thread late because I wanted to digest some of previous posts on this subject!
I dont stick up for him because he is a saracens player nor do I criticise him because he is a sarries player,as some do!
He was amongst many who had a poor six nations including the coach!
He has an edge to his game some people like & some dont.....we dont know what was said to him during Glasgow but that doesnt excuse his actions
If you fail to see humour in his try celebration V Quins which was aimed at press,then we wont agree on much!

Yes he was amongst many who had a poor six nations but other players didn't make mock celebrations or try and make light of quite valid comments.

Clive can sometimes say provocative things but saying a player is in all likely tired is completely valid after such a heavy workload.


I fail to see the humour because it wasn't funny. England coming 5th in the 6 nations wasn't funny.



If Itoje wasn't tired how do you explain Itoje's sluggish and poor performances in the 6 nations?


It's natural for players to want to play every single game of rugby but playing as much rugby as the likes of Itoje does take it out of a player.

If Itoje did not have a fatigue issue for England, it's even worse because it shows that his attitude wasn't right.

 
Re: Itoje
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 12:13
That would quite possibly be linked with Jones beasting of players during all ridiculously tough training sessions!
I think I am correct in saying Maro was one of many players who were extremely pleased to get back to their clubs after 6N
I travelled up to Glasgow game & none of their supporters or players complained about Maroís actions.......let us remember that ten seconds earlier the referee had penalised Glasgow had they stopped, this incident would never have happened.
Thereís a lot of wind up mercha
nts in game & its very hard not to react sometimes but Maro is a young man who doesnt always make the right decisions,the same can also be said about some other more seasoned professionals



European champions 2016 & 2017



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/10/2018 14:22 by Highbury Saracen.

 
Re: Itoje
25 October, 2018 14:12
Celebrating opposition errors. No.

You've missed the point entirely. Because the highly-biased one-eyed Scottish commentator saw a half second of Maro celebrating and interpreted it by his own dreadfully poor standards.

Everyone has jumped on that particular bandwagon, naively believing the perceived opinion of that moronic Scottish numpty who misinterpreted what Maro was doing.

Anytime we have a big defensive set and the opposition come away with nothing we celebrate. It's positive energy. Something from psychology that Borthwick brought to the club. Be it a knock-on, forward pass, infringement, leading to a turnover. We did it several times last week against Lyon, and I hope we carry on.

We celebrate our success, not their incompetence. Which is how Maro's behaviour, has been misinterpreted because of that foul Scotsman being wrong.

Scott Hastings is a anachornistic ignorant moron and I hope BT Sport terminate his contract. Maro is one of England and Saracens current better players.

 
Re: Itoje
AP (IP Logged)
25 October, 2018 15:15
Frankly, guys, I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. But, as I've said above, I think as a result we are much less likely to take a quick tap penalty or free kick.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

 
Re: Itoje
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
26 October, 2018 06:53
As always it would be fascinating to know how the moralising of some is reflected in their own behaviour.

 
Re: Itoje
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
26 October, 2018 07:10
My behaviour is exemplary!

.....and I haven't got the word 'Humility' plastered round my living room.

 
Re: Itoje
samlee99 (IP Logged)
26 October, 2018 12:34
Quote:
The Substandard Biscuit
Celebrating opposition errors. No.
You've missed the point entirely. Because the highly-biased one-eyed Scottish commentator saw a half second of Maro celebrating and interpreted it by his own dreadfully poor standards.

Everyone has jumped on that particular bandwagon, naively believing the perceived opinion of that moronic Scottish numpty who misinterpreted what Maro was doing.

Anytime we have a big defensive set and the opposition come away with nothing we celebrate. It's positive energy. Something from psychology that Borthwick brought to the club. Be it a knock-on, forward pass, infringement, leading to a turnover. We did it several times last week against Lyon, and I hope we carry on.

We celebrate our success, not their incompetence. Which is how Maro's behaviour, has been misinterpreted because of that foul Scotsman being wrong.

Scott Hastings is a anachornistic ignorant moron and I hope BT Sport terminate his contract. Maro is one of England and Saracens current better players.

And presumably Nigel Owens who has said the same thing is also an anachornistic ignorant moron too?

Or just possibly the only anachornistic ignorant moron that can be found is when you look into a mirror?

 
Re: Itoje
Essex-Sarrie (IP Logged)
26 October, 2018 12:43
Lots of very high horses galloping around this thread

Maro put in another great shift last weekend, I'm sure he'll continue to improve and be back to his at his very best in an England shirt this autumn.

If you don't like him that's your call but I don't see any need to dedicate a whole bashing thread to spout all your gripes about him.

 
Re: Itoje
26 October, 2018 13:38
Still missing the point.

Zebo was slightly mocking. Itoje was not. (& actually I don't think there was much wrong with what Zebo did, a bit mocking, and Zebo was then contrite and apologetic = OK)
Itoje had nothing to apologise over. Just because a whinging, biased, one-eyed commentator called it that way without understanding & thinking, many, like sheep, followed his lead.


"Celebrating our own success, not the incompetence of others."


Dear oh dear. Some people... (and then I get called ignorant).

 
Re: Itoje
Harrow Sarrie (IP Logged)
26 October, 2018 15:11
'Anachornistic' [sic] too...

 
Re: Itoje
samlee99 (IP Logged)
27 October, 2018 10:17
Quote:
The Substandard Biscuit
Still missing the point.
Zebo was slightly mocking. Itoje was not. (& actually I don't think there was much wrong with what Zebo did, a bit mocking, and Zebo was then contrite and apologetic = OK)
Itoje had nothing to apologise over. Just because a whinging, biased, one-eyed commentator called it that way without understanding & thinking, many, like sheep, followed his lead.


"Celebrating our own success, not the incompetence of others."


Dear oh dear. Some people... (and then I get called ignorant).

And a hypocrite too it seems.

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