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England squad.... or what's left!
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 08:17
England mens squad

Forwards (20)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) co-captain
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Michael Rhodes (Saracens)
Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Nathan Earle (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) co-captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Teo (Worcester Warriors)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)



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Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 08:18
I actually like the squad. Glad he has gone with the co-captain route as it means Jamie has a chance to actually start. I also like Morgan being back into the team

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 08:20
That's the least Saracens for some time in a 36 man squad I woild think

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Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Harbinger (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 08:22
Cant agree with Wiggy being in there, its not a very forward thinking choice, he should be investing time bringing a younger player on.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 08:44
Agree ....very surprised to see Wiggy there!
Think we will get him back though,however I think Michael Rhodes will become a permanent fixture.....starting with these AIs



European champions 2016 & 2017



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/10/2018 09:04 by Highbury Saracen.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 09:22
Quote:
Harbinger
Cant agree with Wiggy being in there, its not a very forward thinking choice, he should be investing time bringing a younger player on.

It's too late for that. World Cup is in 12 months - he now has to pick the best players regardless of age.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 09:28
And I'd beg to differ! Wiggy is a far better SH than either Care or Youngs and with Robson injured, the obvious choice as he's still ahead of Spencer. He lacks the pace (and therefore sniping ability) of a top quality 9 but has a far better all round game. Young's slow, inaccurate passing is regularly derided on Tigers' board, Care's poor kicking and heads down tap and go similarly criticised by two eyed Quins fans (he's a weak defender too). Wiggy's game management, defending, experience and positional play are top drawer, he passes well from the ground off either hand. Our structured box kicking game is not the only one he plays well.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Harbinger (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 09:56
Quote:
#wolfpack
Quote:
Harbinger
Cant agree with Wiggy being in there, its not a very forward thinking choice, he should be investing time bringing a younger player on.

It's too late for that. World Cup is in 12 months - he now has to pick the best players regardless of age.

That sort of thinking doesn't develop depth of squad and leaves him short should injuries arise.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 10:13
Quote:
Sara'sman
the obvious choice as he's still ahead of Spencer.

I think Spencer has finally overtaken him this season. It's especially noticeable when Spencer starts that service speed goes down considerably Wiggle comes on. Turned-over twice in recent hame whilst he faffed around with the positioning of the ball and we were counter-rucked. Still a brilliant player but time for Grasshopper to shine!

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
beshocked (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 10:42
Sadly Wigglesworth hasn't played particularly well at international level.

He's excelled at club level and he's someone who has many time helped Saracens control games, exit their half but I'd like to see Spencer given more responsibility for club and country.

Wigglesworth sadly doesn't offer much running threat which means opposition can just effectively ignore him and focus on other players.


I don't feel like it's a very exciting squad - reminds me too much of the squad that failed to make the quarter finals of the RWC.


Still no X factor in the backrow or at 12 - I guess that's more a personnel problem than Jones not selecting them.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Harbinger (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 10:43
Quote:
SarrieSaint
Quote:
Sara'sman
the obvious choice as he's still ahead of Spencer.

I think Spencer has finally overtaken him this season. It's especially noticeable when Spencer starts that service speed goes down considerably Wiggle comes on. Turned-over twice in recent hame whilst he faffed around with the positioning of the ball and we were counter-rucked. Still a brilliant player but time for Grasshopper to shine!

+1

I'm a relatively new supporter (5 years) so maybe I dont see Wiggy through rose tinted glasses like some of the more long term supporters.

I thought defensively, around the ruck and chasing back, Spencer was excellent at the Quins game.

That aside, I still think Robson is the correct choice should he have been fit.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 10:48
Quote:
Harbinger
Quote:
#wolfpack
Quote:
Harbinger
Cant agree with Wiggy being in there, its not a very forward thinking choice, he should be investing time bringing a younger player on.

It's too late for that. World Cup is in 12 months - he now has to pick the best players regardless of age.

That sort of thinking doesn't develop depth of squad and leaves him short should injuries arise.


These games are not about developing younger players. England have had a terrible year so far- these games are about winning and trying to decide what the first XV at the WC are going to be.

I agree that if Wigglesworth is not going to play in the WC, then he shouldn't be involved at all. But if he is in the plans to be third scrum half then he should be included regardless of the fact he is older than 20 year old Harry Simmons at Leicester (for example).

If you want to spread experience around the country regardless of whether or not they are going to be in the world cup squad just in case multiple injuries occur, then just play the Under 20 squad and leave the established players at home. That would help 'bring younger players on'. But it won't help us win the world cup in my opinion.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 14:32
I like Wiggy being in that squad an.older head with some top quality experience and plays with a winning mentality, happy enough with the squad and hopefully Loz and Farrell will start together at International level, we shall see

Ben Morgan is a very good Choice and think if that team can Gel then who knows what could happen next year with the likes of Billy and Mako hopefully available for selection come World cup time

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
18 October, 2018 16:23
Also - at least it is marginally fairer on us - marginally - as finally Chiefs lose 5 players. we are still down 7 - plus injuries - so in a way if they had been fit and selected we might have lost TEN players to England alone! (Billy Mako and Nick)

How on earth are we supposed to manage with that many players being taken? That is three quarters of a starting 15 - excluding Liam, Sean, Vinny. Effectively our whole starting 15.
Only in rugby - I cant see another sport putting up with it.

Bath are the next worst off with 5 players snaffled - and they have injuries to cope with as well. Quins and Tiggers lose 4 - which you can cope with. Sale and Saints 2 and Wuss 3. If you think about it - we would actually have lost 8 this time if Nathan hadnt moved to Quins. So 11 counting our injured boys. For the first time I am glad Nathan left - (even though I miss him being around!)

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
Rubz (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 11:02
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
Only in rugby - I cant see another sport putting up with it.

Cricket...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/10/2018 18:03 by Rubz.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
nedrichards (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 12:26
Let's wait and see what the RFU, RPA and PRL have to announce about the season structure after the world cup next Tuesday. I suspect that we won't get the PRL 'no overlap with internationals at all' concept but wouldn't be terribly surprised if they introduced something like an NFL style "bye week".

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 14:00
The RFU have already said that they paid the clubs too much for player release in the last agreement and of course apparently now they are watching the pennies.
That doesnt sound like a terribly positive starting point when they are negotiating the season structure.

For me the fundamental problem is that the national team has a massive advantage over the clubs - obviously Eddie and his counterparts miss the best players when they are injured, but in the end they can just pick someone pretty good from any of the clubs to fill a space. The clubs simply havent got that luxury, especially with squad sizes that are just too small. The fact that constantly gets overlooked in the press is the pressure on remaining club players in a club like Saracens when so many of their counterparts disappear - they get no break, even if they are carrying a knock, when usually they would be rested. The only other team who probably understand this is Bath. I know it gives opportunity to the younger members of the squad to show what they are made of, but we are now only 8 games into the season (I think) and are already suffering an injury crisis that is going to be made far worse when 7 players disappear to England and others to Scotland and Wales.

Effectively we will have lost a whole team (including injuries - who would have gone to England had they not been sidelined!)

This situation just cannot be sustainable year after year.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 15:55
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
The RFU have already said that they paid the clubs too much for player release in the last agreement and of course apparently now they are watching the pennies.
That doesnt sound like a terribly positive starting point when they are negotiating the season structure.

For me the fundamental problem is that the national team has a massive advantage over the clubs - obviously Eddie and his counterparts miss the best players when they are injured, but in the end they can just pick someone pretty good from any of the clubs to fill a space. The clubs simply havent got that luxury, especially with squad sizes that are just too small. The fact that constantly gets overlooked in the press is the pressure on remaining club players in a club like Saracens when so many of their counterparts disappear - they get no break, even if they are carrying a knock, when usually they would be rested. The only other team who probably understand this is Bath. I know it gives opportunity to the younger members of the squad to show what they are made of, but we are now only 8 games into the season (I think) and are already suffering an injury crisis that is going to be made far worse when 7 players disappear to England and others to Scotland and Wales.

Effectively we will have lost a whole team (including injuries - who would have gone to England had they not been sidelined!)

This situation just cannot be sustainable year after year.

It's not sustainable, I agree.

We have disagreed in the past. I remain convinced that we reduce the Prem to 10, the RFU reduces its support to PRL proportionaly, and we get rid of the abomination that is club games being played in the International windows. The quid pro quo would be no internationals outside of the International Windows.



676.97 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2017.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 16:04
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
The RFU have already said that they paid the clubs too much for player release in the last agreement and of course apparently now they are watching the pennies.

BarnetSarrie you are someone who seems to know a lot. Can you tell me the Player Release paid by the RFU is it a standard amount split between all 12 clubs or is it in proportion to the representatives from the clubs?

A friend says it's just split equally but that seems crazy. A club with one or no representatives gets the same M+ as Saracens with between 6 and 8?

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 16:30
Quote:
SarrieSaint
Quote:
BarnetSarrie
The RFU have already said that they paid the clubs too much for player release in the last agreement and of course apparently now they are watching the pennies.

BarnetSarrie you are someone who seems to know a lot. Can you tell me the Player Release paid by the RFU is it a standard amount split between all 12 clubs or is it in proportion to the representatives from the clubs?

A friend says it's just split equally but that seems crazy. A club with one or no representatives gets the same M+ as Saracens with between 6 and 8?

PRL acts as a trade body for the clubs. They require an equal payout for each club.

Meritocracy? My hairy @#$%&!!



676.97 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2017.

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 17:16
Thanks TT. That's depressing. So Sarries England players are subsidising about half the league?

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
nedrichards (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 21:02
Well, it formerly operated rather the other way around...

I believe the same is true for prize money etc. one of the reasons you can lose money by winning things...

 
Re: England squad.... or what's left!
AP (IP Logged)
19 October, 2018 21:22
"I remain convinced that we reduce the Prem to 10, the RFU reduces its support to PRL proportionaly, and we get rid of the abomination that is club games being played in the International windows. The quid pro quo would be no internationals outside of the International Windows."

But the wage bill remains much the same (less some squad players).



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