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Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
JL904 (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 00:58
Can you idolise a sportsman whose views you hate?

I commented along the lines of ...

It depends, doesn't it? I'm guessing that most people attending the Oscars don't usually go for sex crimes, least of all the women. It hasn't stopped them giving more than one standing ovation to a convicted child rapist.

What do fellow fans think the chances of that appearing underneath the article are - slim or none?

For the record, I don't agree with Billy, and I think he was daft going on social media over this issue - but the downright hypocrisy of some of those shouting loudest makes my gorge rise.

I've come to the conclusion that the Mail have become the most vicious hate-mongers in this country for many years - and not just because of recent allegations against our club.



Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please - Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Old Curmudgeon (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 07:26
The publication in question has been the mouthpiece of the the far right bullies for decades.

There is no depth that they will not plumb to sell copy. Should they succeed in driving Billy out of the gave they will crow and then write pieces about his tragic downfall and the loss to the sport.

This particular hack is so low that I am certain that the individual in question could crawl under a snakes belly whilst wearing a top hat.

I am a proud Englishman but am thoroughly ashamed of what is going on in my country at present; we are not Lions we are jackals.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
DoubleChampions (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 08:42
We have a sticky on our forum titled Back to the Day Job and I suggest Billy does just that.

Putting the Daily Mail to one side as there job is to sell newspapers / website traffic - what the blazes was Billy doing?

It is not the Mails fault that Billy could not do the simple thing of keeping his opinions out of an Australian players situation - regardless of where that player came from.

We all know we now live in a society where the slightest un PC comment is jumped on SO do not give them the ammunition - Billy was foolish beyond words and all / any backlash has been self inflicted.

Billy - go to the RFU - take and heed the warning against future behaviour as I am sure that is all this will warrant - listen to the club and management and get your head back down and play the game.

As for anything else - if an opinion about non on field rugby activity is in your mind required - keep schtum.

As for looking to blame this or the current salary cap situation on anyone else or blaming the Daily Mail for reporting (albeit sensationsally - shock horror - they are a newspaper!) is just wrong.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
14 April, 2019 10:30
Ugh, not these trolls.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
nixworld2 (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 11:01
As much as I dislike the Mail (and I really, really do), I'm not sure how the comment "When high-profile sportsmen like Folau and Vunipola choose to use their social media platforms to promote opinions that are a form of hate-speech, opinions that could actively encourage violence against a section of society, that encourage intolerance, that are the enemy of inclusivity and which will cause distress, they deserve to be condemned and to face sanctions." is stirring hatred.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
14 April, 2019 11:33
To start with Folau's views I believe that they were basic Christian fundamentalist beliefs. This relegion is allowed in all of the western world. I think. They concur pretty much with Muslim beliefs. So what he said is allowed to be believed but not spoken is my take on it. If employers disagree with these view why employ the individual in the first place? Ah, civil liberties! A direct contradiction is it not. This is the thin end of the wedge.
Whether the majority of the population believe these beliefs are correct is immaterial. You either have free speech or you don't. Yes abusing an individual or a group is a crime. It can incite violence. Fair enough. However, how long before thought crime comes into play? A populace monitored 24.7. George Orwell might have been a few decades late but 1984 seems to have been pretty well spot on.

My own view is that ALL religions are batsh*t crazy.



Just a farm team from Devon.
We know who we be!

The lowest depth to which people can sink before Truth is defined by the word 'God'.

Pawel Vygot. 2018

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 11:47
Nobody has said they can't be Christians, nor has anyone silenced them; their posts are still out there and can be read by all. Nobody prevented them from airing their views in the first place, nobody is punishing them for being Christians and they aren't committing a crime (otherwise they would be charged).

As they've expressed themselves using their right to free speech, other people have responded in kind. It's ironic that their biggest defenders who usually claim their speech is being impeded somehow are trying to silence the critics as if they have no right to respond.

Not reading the mail article as I wouldn't want to give them revenue but if the quote is correct;

"When high-profile sportsmen like Folau and Vunipola choose to use their social media platforms to promote opinions that are a form of hate-speech, opinions that could actively encourage violence against a section of society, that encourage intolerance, that are the enemy of inclusivity and which will cause distress, they deserve to be condemned"

I find it hard to take claims of stirring hatred against them seriously.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Roger G (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 11:48
Free speech is all very well but there has to be a line beyond which one cannot go....and that line changes with time and as cultures change. In 21st century western society being gay is generally regarded as an acceptable individual choice, and should not be judged/condemned by others.

Personally I have no religion but I respect the right of others to hold and express their own beliefes and views as long as that doesn't involve hatred or condemnation of others (which is what most religion based conflicts are about). I think Folau's words have crossed the line, but arguably not Billy's (he didn't explicitly comdemn anybody else to hell as far as I'm aware). Billy could, however, IMHO check whether his words/views might be offensive with a less religious mate before posting to the world.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Convex Hull (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 14:30
You cannot be a Christian, or indeed follow any of the Abrahamic Faiths, and simply 'blow with the wind' on fundamental theological points, even though those points do have different interpretations and may not be congruent with current secular ethics.

He was reaffirming his Faith embodied in the Methodist catechism which requires him, above all other considerations, to love his brothers and sisters unconditionally.

It is a tenet of Christianity, diametrically opposed to hatred.

As a fellow Christian, I admire his commitment to his Faith, even if I differ on interpretation with him, but I think that Facebook discussions on such matters are not likely to be constructive.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
plzd (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 20:47
Quote:
nixworld2
As much as I dislike the Mail (and I really, really do), I'm not sure how the comment "When high-profile sportsmen like Folau and Vunipola choose to use their social media platforms to promote opinions that are a form of hate-speech, opinions that could actively encourage violence against a section of society, that encourage intolerance, that are the enemy of inclusivity and which will cause distress, they deserve to be condemned and to face sanctions." is stirring hatred.
unlike bv attitude then

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
14 April, 2019 22:03
The ARU has sacked Falau for expressing his belief. I did not say that people who opposed his views should be silenced. However to employ someone who has belifs and then to sack him for expressing them is seriously hypocritical. Should employers ask for a prospective employees religion? No - civil liberties come into play. So I stand by what my previous post said. A blief if it opposes other in vogue beliefs may not be spoken. In my opinion this course of action will cause even more unrest in these weird times.

And I disagree with the views of both Falau and Vunipola. But they have the right to express them.



Just a farm team from Devon.
We know who we be!

The lowest depth to which people can sink before Truth is defined by the word 'God'.

Pawel Vygot. 2018

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Waldo (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 07:05
Quote:
JL904

What do fellow fans think the chances of that appearing underneath the article are - slim or none?


probably none - I commented on the other Saracens article regarding the liberal use of "a source said", "It has been suggested", "the mail understands" rather than any substance and it been poor journalism and surprise surprise that didn't make the comments !


I think you only stand a chance if you agree with them !

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Roger G (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 07:38
Quote:
Shouting Prarie Dog
The ARU has sacked Falau for expressing his belief. I did not say that people who opposed his views should be silenced. However to employ someone who has belifs and then to sack him for expressing them is seriously hypocritical. Should employers ask for a prospective employees religion? No - civil liberties come into play. So I stand by what my previous post said. A blief if it opposes other in vogue beliefs may not be spoken. In my opinion this course of action will cause even more unrest in these weird times.
And I disagree with the views of both Falau and Vunipola. But they have the right to express them.

Folau went further than "expressing his beliefs" IMHO. He stated, in quite unpleasant terms, what should happen to people who didn't share his beliefs. Billy didn't go that far.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
boomer! (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 10:24
We are constantly told to embrace 'diversity'

It is suggested that in modern usage people believe diversity means hiring people with different viewpoints, backgrounds and are of different race and gender.

I guess 'different' now means different, so long as their viewpoints and backgrounds are the same as yours.



BTW, I think Billy was wrong to air his views on a social media platform, he should have kept his own council. Note, that does not mean I am telling Billy that he should change his views, it is not up to me to comment or criticize Billy for his beliefs.


I am not surprised at all this moral outrage that will forever follow Billy around; it does not take much these days to offend the permanently offended who live in a world where dog-poo smells of the sweetest jasmine.


Many years ago, fearing the way social media was being used and abused, I wrote on this very platform that clubs should ban their players from using social media and I was shouted down by the naysayers quoting 'rights to air opinions' and 'free speech' and 'free press' blah blah blah.

Well the chickens are coming home to roost.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 10:32
Quote:
Roger G
Quote:
Shouting Prarie Dog
The ARU has sacked Falau for expressing his belief. I did not say that people who opposed his views should be silenced. However to employ someone who has belifs and then to sack him for expressing them is seriously hypocritical. Should employers ask for a prospective employees religion? No - civil liberties come into play. So I stand by what my previous post said. A blief if it opposes other in vogue beliefs may not be spoken. In my opinion this course of action will cause even more unrest in these weird times.
And I disagree with the views of both Falau and Vunipola. But they have the right to express them.

Folau went further than "expressing his beliefs" IMHO. He stated, in quite unpleasant terms, what should happen to people who didn't share his beliefs. Billy didn't go that far.

I don't think IF's words went that far. His Instagram stated that the 8 categories WILL go to hell, rather than SHOULD ...

Furthermore, I note that the sacking hasn't been confirmed. RA said, on Thursday evening (Oz time) that they would be sacking IF. It's now Monday night and his contract hasn't been terminated.

Perhaps that's because a number of Legal Eagles have opined that the player's legal representatives could argue that he was sacked for religious reasons and that's illegal.

The Thursday outburst struck me as overblown at the time; perhaps a more measured approach is now being attempted?



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 11:00
Stop Press, Raelene Castle has now fired him and given him 48 hours to appeal. It's in the (UK) Independent- can't do a link.



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
Waldo (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 11:10
Quote:
TonyTaff
Stop Press, Raelene Castle has now fired him and given him 48 hours to appeal. It's in the (UK) Independent- can't do a link.

Fixed that for you IF sacking

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
TonyTaff (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 12:46
Quote:
Waldo
Quote:
TonyTaff
Stop Press, Raelene Castle has now fired him and given him 48 hours to appeal. It's in the (UK) Independent- can't do a link.

Fixed that for you IF sacking

Ta



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
myleftboot (IP Logged)
16 April, 2019 11:18
Quote:
Waldo


I think you only stand a chance if you agree with them !
I appear to have been banned from commenting there and Wales Online, and I can't say I'm mad 'bout it!

 
Re: Daily Slime Still Stirring Hatred against Billy
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 April, 2019 19:36
Some things are better left unsaid. They can have their opinions but I'm not sure how smart it was to post on social media. What on earth did they think they'd achieve.

Their sanction is for being stupid as much as anything else.


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