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Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Mr Kipling (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 16:25

Cos it happened today!...Bath pushover, Ref awards the try, Irish player objects & Ref decides to go to T.v. Adjudicator!....result, no try!
I always thought that once the decision is made, it must stand?
Can any of the more Knowledgable confirm or deny this please?



If they don't like your opinion, so what! It's your opinion, not theirs.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: FourSticks (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 16:32

Referees can and do change their minds. And, in fact, all Fox did was to use the TMO, which showed good management of the situation.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: OLoingseach (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 16:40

I assumed he'd given the try, but someone said that he was signalling to stop the clock...

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Glen The Ed (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 16:59

Ref's in charge, can do what he likes.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 17:48

Refs can turn decisions over, in that sense they can change their mind whenever

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 18:18

I didn't think he'd given the try, I thought he'd put his arm up to indicate that he'd stopped the clock in order to go to the TMO. I may be wrong though.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: dabos (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 18:28

The big screen was a bit quick in flashing up "Try awarded" when you could spot the knock on from outer space. Still, who cares?



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: johnnyf (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 18:40

Does that mean that my wife is a referee Glen?

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 19:20

On the tv it looked like a try - seemed to come of Batty's head so no knock on.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 19:52

Quote:
marshie10
I didn't think he'd given the try, I thought he'd put his arm up to indicate that he'd stopped the clock in order to go to the TMO. I may be wrong though.

You are wrong, he awarded the try then changed his mind.

Apart from that c*%k up I thought he had a fair game.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Glen The Ed (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 20:01

Quote:
On the tv it looked like a try - seemed to come of Batty's head so no knock on.

So the player in front who then touched down was offside.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 20:04

I thought he touched it down himself.

Hard to see mind.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Dougie15 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:21

From the angle i have couldn't tell whether it was or wasn't a try on the screen.
Ref definitely signalled try , but as already said he is allowed to change his mind.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:46

Just re-watched it, he did not change his mind - he immediately put his hand in the air (with his palm out to signal "stop"), called "time off" and made the motion to go to the TMO. It might have looked like an arm up to signal a try, but it wasn't.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:50

KS, it seems I'm not wrong...



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:53

Actually I saw it different to TCM on the rerun. I still say he signalled a try initially, then changed his mind.

My only concession is that he changed his mind far quicker than I originally thought, but yes, he changed his mind.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:55

In your opinion he did.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 21:56

'tis a forum full of little more than opinions.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:01

He likes the last word, KS! winking smiley



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:09

Kidney Stone, there was no pause, he put his arm up to signal time off as he said time off. If it's not in the highlights show I'll post it to YouTube.

The arm signal for time off is basically the same as for try!



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:12

Now now Cooch.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:14

Really?

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:21

[www.coachingrugby.com]

Number 46.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Heavy Bath (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 22:39

Very poor referreeing. He clearly gave a try and then changed his kind. Didn't make any difference in the end but not good.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 23:01

Er, no he didn't, see above.

He immediately signalled time off (signal - arm rised in the air), simultaneously said "time off" (clearly audible on the ref's mic), and then did the TMO signal.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 23:05

Pretty obvious at the time for me, I think people were just thrown by the big screen getting it wrong.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 23:14

Live it didn't occur to me either.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01 January, 2012 23:42

Guess we will have to agree to differ.

I'm cool with that.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 00:18

It's admirable that you won't change your mind, Kidney Stone, just as the referee today didn't:





Not the slightest suggestion of a change of mind I'm afraid. Note the multiple short blasts of the whistle meaning stop/time off rather than the long one which would mean a try.

It is rather confusing that the arm signal for try and time off are the same.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 00:23 by TCM2007.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 00:23

As clear as a whistle...



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: shendy (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 09:26

It's the raised palm facing forward that indicates "time off" - he's definitely not indicating "try" there. That's more with the hand out straight.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Benger_Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 09:48

Didn't think he had given a try at the time, think it's pretty clear from that clip that he didn't. He doesn't pause and has a few short sharp blasts on the whistle rather than one long one, pretty obvious he is stopping the clock and not awarding a try.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Puxonian (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 12:23

Quote:
TCM2007
It's admirable that you won't change your mind, Kidney Stone, just as the referee today didn't:




Not the slightest suggestion of a change of mind I'm afraid. Note the multiple short blasts of the whistle meaning stop/time off rather than the long one which would mean a try.

It is rather confusing that the arm signal for try and time off are the same.

This. I must say I thought he'd signalled a try at first, I didn't see the second bit and the TV signal as I was too busy coughing

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Duke of Earl (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 13:31

Well whatever the opinions and I am right, you are wrong, it wasn't awarded.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 19:44

Hear hear!

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 19:51

http://www.fsuwomensrugby.com/images/danaRefereeing07.jpg

What was the question again? In this case, is the Pope a Catholic?!!



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 20:48

KS, why can't you just admit you're wrong?!



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 22:24

Quote:
Kidney Stone
Guess we will have to agree to differ.
I'm cool with that.

M10, take a chill pill, sometimes disagreement is healthy. It causes me no disquiet, try to hang loose man.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 22:29

I'm not angry, I just find it amazing how after watching the replay anyone can think he's awarded the try and changed his mind.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 22:38

Happy to have contributed to your amazement

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 22:42

Oh I see, you're intentionally being wrong. Sorry should have picked that up earlier. Ha. Ha. Ha.



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 02 January, 2012 22:43

Duh!

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: OLoingseach (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 00:29

Quote:
Kidney Stone
You are wrong, he awarded the try then changed his mind.

Apart from that c*%k up I thought he had a fair game.

Sorry, KS. He stopped the clock. Check the highlights (or the Prem website where you can watch the whole glorious thing again for free)!

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Mazzo. (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 12:26

or the above You Tube clip - first thing the ref does is signal to stop the clock. No two ways about it - it isn't about opinion, it's what he does if you watch what he does and listen to what he says.
What amazes me more is that Mr Kipling started the thread and hasn't posted on it since. So, Mr K, it seems that the ref can changes his mind, but didn't on this occasion. Sorted

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: BBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 12:49

He wasn't in the best of places to judge anything to do with try scoring.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 14:09

I really don't mind if a ref changes his mind as long as the decision is correct.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Mr Kipling (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 17:05

Cheers guys. Obviously others had a better view than I did....nice to prompt healthy discussion!!

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Gareth Redux (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 17:46

Cooch is right, Marshie seems one of these people who MUST have the last word.

 
Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 18:09

Gareth, I have no idea what you're talking about...



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Re: Can a Ref change his mind?
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 03 January, 2012 18:11

.

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