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Re: Lewis Moody
Humpo (IP Logged)
24 February, 2012 09:28
Great post Tricky. Absolutely spot on.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
24 February, 2012 09:29
Fearns and Louw will be joy to watch.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
P G Tips (IP Logged)
24 February, 2012 11:39
Agree Tricky

One small point. You state: "What is true however is that we took a risk on a great (but injury prone) player and it's not come off." With a year to go on his contract, it could still come off - if we got a comparatively injury free season from him. With no England commitments, I am certainly hoping that will happen.

Could he join the ranks of the veterans who proved to be a thorn in opposition sides, even in the twilight of their careers?

PG

 
Re: Lewis Moody
winger90 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 17:58
For those who don't have Twitter Tom Bradshaw, from the Bath Chronicle has just tweeted this.

@TomBradshaw1979
Lewis Moody's troublesome shoulder still giving him gyp. Sir Ian McGeechan unable to put a date on former England skipper's likely return.

Seems a real shame for the bloke who seems to want to give it his all whenever he plays for any team but maybe years of his body taking a bashing is taking its toll

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bri (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 18:06
Good luck Lewis.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 18:46
You can only have so many operations on one joint without permanent damage. Very frustrating for LM - but let's hope he can be patched up and rehabilitated enough to give Bath some wonderful performances however few before he hangs up those boots and shirt for good. Always loved watching him play his suicidal sometimes downright foolhardy game, not to mention hands in the ruck for Leicester. Once met post-game, in the flesh, he's just an old softeeee just like Grewy.



Francois Louw
Proud to be wearing the BB&W and feared by all who play in the English Prem!

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bath Fan Jack (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 18:50
I am afraid a Leicester supporter told me to expect this when we signed him.

I sincerely hope he gets back on the pitch as of course that will be really what he wants.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bod (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 21:33
I'm sure LM must be frustrated, and wishing he was contributing something to the cause. Howeever, it does seem that he is permanently suffering, out in rehab, then needing game time to get match fit, to take the place of who? I regret that he turned up as semi-crocked and seems to be moving to permocrocked. Isn't there an insurance policy to pay him out and relieve the whole situation?



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Re: Lewis Moody
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 21:35
Yes, but to be frank, unless BC wants to buy him out of his contract so he can 'afford' to retire, he is and will remain a Bath boy so let's hope he does get fit enough to play.



Francois Louw
Proud to be wearing the BB&W and feared by all who play in the English Prem!

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:13
I too wish LM well but have a different take on this thread. Tigers it seems to me are are like Man Utd, realeasing players when they have less to offer in the future than they have provided in the past - Tigers are in the top 4, we have LM, Sam and Dan and are in the bottom 4.There are many ex Tigers playing for other AP clubs, none of whom are above them. Different thinking and strategy required I think.



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Re: Lewis Moody
hasta (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:33
I don't think you're alone in that view Clarkey, but I think it's a bit lazy to compare to football clubs. After all, Man U have just dragged Scholes back from retirement and Giggs is a fundamental part of their ongoing play.

Moody was a gamble due to fitness. It was a statement signing, but I think it's fair to say it hasn't paid off. Vesty, while not setting the world alight, imho is doing an excellent job of what he's paid to do, be a bench player who can cover most of the backline. It's hardly his fault that Cuthbert has totally failed to kick on in terms of covering 15. Tbh I've seen Hipkiss 3 times this year and he's been excellent, powerful, hard to bring down and with a surprising turn of pace. Not sure how/when he got injured, but he's a quality 13.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:35
Agree full with hasta, apart from on Hipkiss, who I think needs to pass the ball more to be classed as quality.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:45
I think Giggs and Scholes were home grown rather than imported talent and continue to give of their best thanks to early retirement from international selection and good body/health management - good thinking/strategy or not?

 
Re: Lewis Moody
hasta (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:49
In Scholes case it was retirement from all football, not just internationals. And I think it's easier to stay fit in football rather than rugby!

Marshie, name me a 13 who's a good passer of the ball!

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:56
Hasta - you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts, Scholes quit the England scene well before he retired from the Premiership. I recall Capello trying to coax him out of international retirement given his form.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 23:04
hasta - Conrad Smith, Jacques Fourie, Brian O'Driscoll, Will Greenwood, I could go on...

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Old Bathonian (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 05:44
Quote:
Clarkey3k
I too wish LM well but have a different take on this thread. Tigers it seems to me are are like Man Utd, realeasing players when they have less to offer in the future than they have provided in the past - Tigers are in the top 4, we have LM, Sam and Dan and are in the bottom 4.There are many ex Tigers playing for other AP clubs, none of whom are above them. Different thinking and strategy required I think.

This.

He was the biggest watse of money we have seen for a long time.

There is a very obvious reason the Tiggers refused him a 3 yr contract and it goes hand in hand with thier success - once a player is past it they let him go!

Unfortunatly we were the mugs who took 3 of them on...........

 
Re: Lewis Moody
DA Bath (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 06:52
Worth remembering that Leicester wanted Moody to stay there and offered him a contract that would have seen him there this season while injured. Bath offered him a 3rd year in his contract. You can't say that Leicester made a better rugby decision on their contract offer to Moody than bath did, until we see what he does in his 3rd season.

Yes in hindsight both clubs shouldn't have offered him a contract at the levels they did, but at this stage to say Leicester were smarter offering him 2 years is impossible.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Rucking Carl (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 07:34
I believe that Leicester also wanted to keep Vesty and Hipkiss. They just didn't want to keep them as badly as we wanted to get them.

I agree with Hasta's assessment on the three ex-Tigers, unfortunately they were on to a loser with some people on here because they came from Tigers.

Hipkiss may not pass the ball often but he does hold onto it and present it quickly when he gets tackled.

I'm hoping that we haven't seen the last of Moody, he is a quality player and gives 100% every game, never backing down. It's absolutely destroyed his body but it still hasn't stopped him.

Most people are looking purely at Lewis' signing from the playing pitch; which is fair enough; but what about off field matters? I'm sure it isn't going to harm Mercer's (and the other youngsters) development to have Moody around at training and as inspiration and his injuries have actually given Merceer a lot of game time.
I'm sure it's a handy bargaining chip when trying to sign new players just to have Moody in the squad.
We also don't know what the future holds for Moody after rugby and if it involves coaching, I'd rather that he gave the benefit of his attitude and experience to our players than anyone else.



Everything I have posted here is my opinion, it in no way reflects actual fact, except when it actually does, although that will not be often.

Please do not take offence if I call your favourite player rubbish or say he plays out of position.

I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours. Mine is most likely to be right though.

I also think cricket is rubbish! This is fact.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bod (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 09:04
Quote:
DA Bath
Worth remembering that Leicester wanted Moody to stay there and offered him a contract that would have seen him there this season while injured. Bath offered him a 3rd year in his contract. You can't say that Leicester made a better rugby decision on their contract offer to Moody than bath did, until we see what he does in his 3rd season.
Yes in hindsight both clubs shouldn't have offered him a contract at the levels they did, but at this stage to say Leicester were smarter offering him 2 years is impossible.

Quote from press release/interview at the time:-

'I was disappointed when Richard Cockerill [Leicester's head coach] told me there was no contract on the table. I've had a long and successful association with Leicester, a club I supported from being a small boy and a team I watched from the Welford Road stands.'



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Re: Lewis Moody
DA Bath (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 09:26
Pretty sure he was offered a contract initially but on the provision that he retired from international rugby after the RWC. Leicester then subsequently withdrew the offer when Moody said he didnt want to give up any chance of continuing for England.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bri (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 09:42
Most players around the thirty Mark would jump at a three year deal,ie Moodos,Flats.I believe Leicester wouldn't budge from a one year deal.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 10:02
Wasn't that the difference between Bath and Saffacens offer to Borthwick as well? I'm sure there were other reasons why he left, though, which became apparent the year after he left.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
hasta (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 10:59
Quote:
hasta - Conrad Smith, Jacques Fourie, Brian O'Driscoll, Will Greenwood, I could go on...

Greenwood was an inside centre, BO'D is hardly known for his passing, Fourie neither. I'll give you Conrad Smith though.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 11:11
Quote:
hasta
Marshie, name me a 13 who's a good passer of the ball!

The problem with Hipkiss is not that he doesn't have the distribution skills of a 10 or 12, it's that he holds onto the ball rather than make a simple pass when that is the best attacking option.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bath Fan Jack (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 11:22
Moody was offered a contract by Leicester.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
3toedsloth (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 11:50
Quote:
devizes bath fan
The problem with Hipkiss is not that he doesn't have the distribution skills of a 10 or 12, it's that he holds onto the ball rather than make a simple pass when that is the best attacking option.

That accusation could be levelled at a number of our backs this season. Our generally poor attack & lack of support play means there haven't been too many attacking options for the elusive simple pass, perhaps?

Hipkiss came to us with the unfortunate 'branding' of not passing (much like DG's reputation for violence). Whilst there will always be incidents that reinforce these perceptions for some, I've been impressed with the little Iíve seen of Hipkiss so far: Banahanís try v Wuss in the Oct LV game sticks in the mind when he provided two pretty decent passes in that one broken-field play.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:05
I feel sorry for Moody, he seems like an honest guy who gives his all every time he takes the field. Yet people criticise him for being injured and a waste of space, something he really has little control over. Yes, the way he plays means that he's more prone to injuries, but the way he plays is how he became England captain, it's how he got so many caps. I think instead of damning Moody, perhaps it would be better to get behind him and look forward to his return.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:20
Quote:
marshie10
I feel sorry for Moody, he seems like an honest guy who gives his all every time he takes the field. Yet people criticise him for being injured and a waste of space, something he really has little control over.

The criticisms about Moody are directed towards the club for signing him in the first place considering his injury record not of him as a person or player.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:25
DBF, while that is true for most, I think there are two or three on here who aren't quite as fair. But I do agree with you/others, it was a short sighted signing, we would have been better served signing a genuine 7, bringing Salvi back perhaps?

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:35
Would love Salvi back but not sure we could justify another back row on first teamer pay in the cap (bringing us back to the Moody argument)

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:37
I think next season is a very big one for Guy Mercer, his contract is up at the end of next season and I think he really needs to kick on. I hope he does as he seems like a really decent guy to have at the club, he also has great potential, I just hope that it can be realised.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bod (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:47
Salvi has extended with Tiggers...........duh SIM..DUH!



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Re: Lewis Moody
Bri (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:48
I have to back up Marshie about Moody,all he wants is to play rugby,when you are coming to the end of your career it must be frustrating all these injuries,let's hope we can see him back playing soon and enjoy watching one of the worlds greats at the Rec.
Guy will be a great player.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:49
Mercer is not the only one. Mears, Catt, Attwood, Caldwell, Fearns, Moody, Skirving, Taylor, Claassens, Donald, Vesty, Barkley, Hipkiss, Banahan, Cuthbert and Biggs are all out of contract after next season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/02/2012 12:50 by devizes bath fan.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bod (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:52
Quote:
devizes bath fan
Mercer is not the only one. Mears, Catt, Attwood, Caldwell, Fearns, Moody, Skirving, Taylor, Claassens, Donald, Vesty, Barkley, Hipkiss, Banahan, Cuthbert and Biggs are all out of contract after next season.

9 to go there then?



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bri (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:53
Seven for me.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:54
Which 9? The 2 most important signings IMHO are Fearns and AttwoodIMHO but as both are young and have alot of potential, if we perform like this next season, are they going to want to stay?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/02/2012 12:56 by devizes bath fan.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:56
I think they're all certain to re-sign or be offered, but IMO there are question marks over Moody, Taylor (both age), Donald, Vesty, Hipkiss and Cuthbert.

And then if Barkley has a poor season he might not get what he wants, and then there might be a question mark over Banahan's morale...

 
Re: Lewis Moody
OutsideBath (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:03
If we go backwards again next season it will be easy for other teams to pick off our best players. Sport is all about winning trophies and we need to offer that to encourage players to join or renew their contracts.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:05
It all depends on whether the older players are happy with less first-team appearances and less money and younger players like Mercer and Catt make enough progress. Of that list I think Cuthbert, Moody and Donald should be going and the club should already be doing their best to re-sign Fearns, Attwood, Caldwell and Biggs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/02/2012 13:09 by devizes bath fan.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:09
I am pretty sure that a lot of the current crop see the potential in the squad, and really believe they will win trophies. They just need to get used to playing together, as much as people hate to hear it, it'll take time.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Which Tyler (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:09
Quote:
devizes bath fan
It all depends on whether the older players are happy with less first-team appearances and less money younger players like Mercer and Catt make enough progress. Of that list I think Cuthbert, Moody and Donald should be going and the club should already be doing their best to re-sign Fearns, Attwood, Caldwell and Biggs.
Can#t really disagree with any of that; though I'd add Catt to the "must sign" list, and personally still don't rate Hipkiss; (sorry, I just don't see the magic)
Quote:
marshie10
I am pretty sure that a lot of the current crop see the potential in the squad, and really believe they will win trophies. They just need to get used to playing together, as much as people hate to hear it, it'll take time.
Can't disagree with that either, however much it'll annoy the likes of Gareth and bod, just because it's oft-repeated doesn't make it any less true (in the same way that oft-repeated character assassinations don't make them any more true)


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/02/2012 13:11 by Which Tyler.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bod (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:12
Quote:
devizes bath fan
Mercer is not the only one. Mears, Catt, Attwood, Caldwell, Fearns, Moody, Skirving, Taylor, Claassens, Donald, Vesty, Barkley, Hipkiss, Banahan, Cuthbert and Biggs are all out of contract after next season.

That'd be my call - maybe harsh, but you're looking then into 2013/14 and contracts probably running through to RWC so have they got another 2-3 years and we need to make space for rising Academy players surely?



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Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:15
For me, Catt needs to work on his scrumaging skills before he's a definite. I suspect Flat's 3 year contract has more to do with his mentoring skills than an expectation that he'll be starting games in 2013/2014.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
OutsideBath (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:20
Quote:
marshie10
I am pretty sure that a lot of the current crop see the potential in the squad, and really believe they will win trophies. They just need to get used to playing together, as much as people hate to hear it, it'll take time.

Not sure I entirely agree that it has to take time for success, although that may well be the case for Bath. Take Saffers as an example, they got new owners and within 2 years had won the PL. Now their methods may not be to everyone's taste and they certainly ruffled a few feathers, but success was achieved.

I'm definitely not saying Bath should copy everything Saffers have done, just using them as an example that success can be attained quickly. We will need to show signs of catching them next season to retain the players we want to.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
marshie10 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:31
Saracens went through re-building before the owners came in, I think. They certainly got hammered by us at the Rec in that period.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:34
No, the new owners came in and basically sacked half the squad.



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Re: Lewis Moody
devizes bath fan (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:37
We can pretty much do that next year.

 
Re: Lewis Moody
Bri (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 13:39
[quote devizes bath fan]For me, Catt needs to work on his scrumaging skills before he's a definite. I suspect Flat's 3 year contract has more to do with his mentoring skills than an expectation that he'll be starting games in 2013/2014.[/quot

Catty doesn't need mentoring, Catty is as good a scrummager as Flats.What Catty needs is more bulk,I believe he is one of the strongest and fastest forwards we got.
Flats can compete with the big premiership tight heads because he's a Stone and a half heavier that the reason he has been retained.
People say Jenkins can't scrummage but he did ok against Cole.
Catty will be retained in the season after next because he is good and a better scrummager than the current England loose head Corbs but his size goes against him at international level.

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