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Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: callmeMrTibbs (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 16:14

Quote:
marshie10
Mr Tibbs, read this article. You only have to look at the fifth paragraph to be honest though. That 100% justifies my comments on this year being a "settling" year.

No need to justify anything marshie, I'm not one of those on ere who go in for not-picking antagonism!

And fair enough, what Bruce says there is maybe more in line with what's gone on this season [with the caveat that we need to show demonstrable improvement next year.]

It does though beg the question as to why The Chronicle are saying top 6 and Heineken are 'an absolutely basic goal'. Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right's doing!

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bri (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 16:20

They are hardly going to say anything else while we still have a chance a slender chance as it is.
Good to read that from Mr Craig and it was always going to take a few seasons.Onwards and upwards.
As long as we give our all in the remaining games who knows where it will take us.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 16:30

I know what you mean Mr Tibbs - mixed messages. I'm willing to be patient with this set-up. Not all are, but I am.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 17:58

"there is a passion, fervour and a willingness on the pitch to almost die for the shirt."

First missed objective of Craig during 2011/12.

Can't see any moves to this scenario in 2012/13 either.

Craig stated anything less than top 6 would be unacceptable - or is that similar bollox to :-

"England scrum coach Graham Rowntree is also poised to become more involved. Rowntree has attended a number of Bath forwards training sessions in recent months."

Get rid of the sycophants and hangers on like SIM for a start who will only recant what BC2 wants to hear.

Ultimately I guess , Craig needs to reconcile himself to the fact that the other clubs are taking the pi$$ out of Bath on a regular basis whilst his "Chuckle Brother" coaching team faff around justifying their existence.


Or maybe we do need summer rugby eh?



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 18:59

With the objectives for year 1 apparently missed it does look more like a 4 year plan now (or maybe even longer).

Perhaps we should all be happy with what we've got, a middle of the road team that can occassionally put on an excellent performance but is unlikely to be able to compete with the top teams? At least we're unlikely to go bust whilst we are lucky enough to have a rich owner.

There was a thread on being realistic, reckon we'd all be much happier with a bit of realism around Bath rugby.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 19:08

Maybe OB,maybe Bath should just be happy to be part of the "Big Boys" club - maybe you're right - that'd keep a lot of people happier - YES, you're very right!



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: johnnyf (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 19:21

Listening to the David Trick interview the other day he is convinced that this team have it in them to be truly great.
I think he is right!
Only trouble is (and as has been belatedly acknowledged by "the Club") there is something drastically wrong with the coaching set-up - however you want to dress it up.

There was also an interview I heard recently where the guy said that all performers who succeed, (and rugby players are performers) have to believe they can go out and achieve.
Some of that belief comes from within but a lot is also contributed by trainers and directors (coaches!)

It seems to me that Bruce Craig's original game plan was therefore seriously flawed from the outset in that the structure of the back-room staffing was far from being in optimum state.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 19:32

We've gone from playing a fast paced, hight tempo game, to trying to play like Saracens. It hasn't worked, shock horror, goodbye Geech.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 21:04

The thing is m10, I think BD and MH need to go as well. A deep clense is required; but I doubt BC2 will grasp the nettle.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 21:25

A season for settling in, and a top 6 finish, are not incompatible.

If every time someone underperformed I sacked them my HR department would be busy. There is an alternative - get people to perform better. (Tough for the head man I grant you)



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

Follow COML on Twitter

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 21:35

People can only perform better if they are capable, I don't believe our coaching team have what it takes to do better therefore should go.

That said we have no idea what objective the owner set the coaching team at the start of the season. It's entirely possible he's entirely pleased with them and their results.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 21:46

Indeed OB, I also believe it's entirely possible, which is a source of great dispair for me, and others perhaps?



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Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: OBinexile (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:06

Aye and BC tearing his hair out and fuming after a game is just for effect.
I think the decisions made a lot of sense at the time. I'd agree that they don't appear to have worked (although top 6 and Heineken next season might partly change that view).
So Geech has a reputation for overseeing the bringing together of a disparate group of players and forming a competitive team quickly. Hasn't worked.
Leicester have a reputation for being difficult to beat (even their 2s grrrr) - so bring some of their senior players to instil that - hasn't worked.
Makes more sense to 'go with your own' and not bring in fancy dans to build the club spirit - Davis and Haag - hasn't really worked.
Bring in young guys with years of top level rugby ahead of them (the Rowell approach) - Louw, Fearns, Caldwell, Attwood, Beech, Eastmond. Hasn't worked this season - although most of them do look like the core of the next few years and not just cos they're contracted.
Develop your own - Catt, KPN, Mercer, Ovens (?), Cook, Heathcote, Woodburn. That looks to have been a reasonable success in the last 12 months. Certainly better than the previous few years. But is it good enough for Bath?
So, plenty for BC to think about. Its not black and white.
My leftfield suggestion. How much would it cost to get Jo Schmidt from Leinster to show he can build a winning team again (and it would save on the monster LHP as well!).

OBinExile

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Jimmer1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:15

The whole thing with the Bruces take over was rushed. He came in and thought he had to make an immediate statement about where Bath were going under his stewardship, so he rashley got McGeechan & Moody in because they were "names" people would recognise.

Both signings were fundamentaly flawed. Many thought it at the time, but due to the initial positivity around BC's take over and the unveiling of Farleigh, etc, it wasn't as well scruntised/questioned as it should have been.

I think these errors were compounded by a non-exec director appointments of people, who, whilst successful in the corporate world, didn't really understand ruby (I think they will prove shrewd appointments on non rugby issues) so weren't able to challenge BC on rugby related matters - to a certain extent I would include NB in this.

This confused and muddled thinking all means that a large chunk of the last 2 seasons has been wasted in terms of the teams development. I think that after a couple of seasons practising, BC is starting to understand whats required, so would expect pretty significant changes over the summer.

It's been a fairly average tenure for BC so far and some pretty simple mistakes have been made but I'm confident that in a year or two's time, we'll be there or there abouts. I still think we are lucky to have him.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:36

I'd keep Brad, I've said many times that I feel he's a very good coach. Let's have him back in his best role of defense and skills, Bath have had an excellent defensive record in the last few seasons while Brad has been at Bath. Haagy has made definite improvements in the second half of the season, I wouldn't be too upset if he went but I don't think he should be a definite to go. I think we need four guys rather than three, although we've effectively only got two at the moment as Geech really does very little.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:40

OBinexile/Jimmer1 - two very cogently argued posts, with much truth.



Stuart

Editor of Come On My Lovers

Follow COML on Twitter

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:44

I think Jimmer makes a very good point, in essence Bruce's "look at me" signings were made with very little thought. Moody is a warrior but he's not really a player that suits Bath, in the 7 shirt he makes no turnovers.

As for McGeechan, well that subject has been discussed enough!

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Jimmer1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:49

Would also keep Brad, but not over-promote him (as Bradshaw seemed to suggest in the Chron). I think he's capable of being top man, but not just yet. A couple of seasons under a decent DOR will be the making of him.

I wish Haagy was the man to look after the forwards but I don't think he's quite up to it, which is a shame.

Rowntree to work on the scrum for 3/4's of the season (shared with England) will help. In addition to a full time forwards coach.

Sooner McGeechans gone, the better.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 22:59

Jimmer, what do you think of the prospect of Dean Ryan? Not bothered about peoples thoughts on his past as a player, or even to a degree his past at Gloucester. He looks to have matured as a rugby brain since then.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Jimmer1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 23:12

Yep, not fussed about his past as a player. There are plenty who've worn the BB&W over the years who will have summoned the same reaction in opposing fans as Ryan does with some on 'ere - it normally means they're half decent!

I wouldn't have touched him 3/4 years ago, but I do tend to agree with the majority of what he says on Sky. He talks a lot of common (rugby) sense.

Without looking at all the finer details, I think he did OK at Glos, but tended to fail at the final hurdle (someone may prove me wrong). I imagine some time away has done hime a lot of good and he would be a better coach now.

I'm not totally convinced but at the same time I could see some postives if he did come - hows that for a non-commital answer!?

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 23:14

Yeh, pretty much exactly my thoughts. I'd prefer someone like Plumtree, but I'd take Ryan. I'd take Ryan over Robinson as well.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Jimmer1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 23:28

It's a shame, there are a lots of ex-Bath players that have half decent coaching records but none are outstanding.

I would love to have a Bath man in charge but I don't think any of them can take the club to here it needs to be - maybe Catty as backs coach. Robinson would probably be a great forwards coach, but he would see that as a major step down, so not really an option.

DORsad smileyMallet/Plumtree/Gaffney,etc)
Backs: Catt
Forwards Robbo
Defence & Skills: Davis
Scrum Consultant: Rowntree

It's got potential...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2012 23:31 by Jimmer1.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: marshie10 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 March, 2012 23:33

It's has great potential, although personally unsure of Catt as a coach. He's hardly worked wonders with Irish. That would also be a very expensive set-up. If I had one wish it would be Steve Meehan as backs coach.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: exbathballboy (IP Logged)
Date: 17 March, 2012 11:58

Just to say Moody was signed before Bruce Craig came to Bath. Meehan even said in a interview that Moody was signed before BC. Moody just wanted a change of scenery and liked how Bath played under Meehan and probably a contract dispute with Leicester but that was just a rumour

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 17 March, 2012 12:04

Quote:
exbathballboy
Just to say Moody was signed before Bruce Craig came to Bath. Meehan even said in a interview that Moody was signed before BC. Moody just wanted a change of scenery and liked how Bath played under Meehan and probably a contract dispute with Leicester but that was just a rumour

http://idata.over-blog.com/0/00/38/80/monoeil.gif



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Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: gloucesterwatcher (IP Logged)
Date: 17 March, 2012 12:21

I think it would be a backward step with D Ryan,he did at the end, lose most of the squad.

Redpath with less money has made a far better job structurally and tactically.

On the telly though, he seems to be one of these people who can point out what not to do......after it has happened.

I would like to see Bath with a positive skill/set of coaches like Ashton used to do with the backs,for me that means SH and get Welsh- Jenkins to be the kick coach.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: BathHalfFull (IP Logged)
Date: 17 March, 2012 16:18

Quote:
exbathballboy
Just to say Moody was signed before Bruce Craig came to Bath. Meehan even said in a interview that Moody was signed before BC. Moody just wanted a change of scenery and liked how Bath played under Meehan and probably a contract dispute with Leicester but that was just a rumour

Not the case. Moody was very much a Bruce Craig/Nick Blofeld new regime signing. And Moody just was after a final payday which quite frankly I don't blame him for at all.

 
Re: Thursday's Chronic
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 17 March, 2012 18:04

Quote:
BathHalfFull
Quote:
exbathballboy
Just to say Moody was signed before Bruce Craig came to Bath. Meehan even said in a interview that Moody was signed before BC. Moody just wanted a change of scenery and liked how Bath played under Meehan and probably a contract dispute with Leicester but that was just a rumour

Not the case. Moody was very much a Bruce Craig/Nick Blofeld new regime signing. And Moody just was after a final payday which quite frankly I don't blame him for at all.

His incisive pitchside punditry is quite revealing!



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

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