How bad is he? Dire goal kicking and terrible decision making plus the fact that he can't catch!
or tackle, or kick penalties, or kick decent restart kicks
He wasn't supposed to be back for another two weeks. Played out of neccessity today.
The problem wasn't a lack of fitness - lack of fitness means you run out of steam before the end, it does not relate to being almost entirely devoid of basic core skills - like passing!
Quote:Agreed - we had Vesty - nowhere near Tom at the moment but head and shoulders above Donald todayWeeksie
He didn't have to play if he wasn't fit!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/03/2012 20:42 by abendanon-anon-anon.
Management should accept they made a mistake with his signing. He looks and plays as though he is homesick.Perhaps a mutual agreement can be reached to let him go back home where he can bask in the glory of kicking the winning penalty in the WC.
I have to admit I thought he would be a good signing for us but he is clearly not good enough,we don't want him here and I think he doesn't want to be here or he plays like he doesn't.someone has posted he's on about £400,000 and I would think that's not far out,hind sight is a wonderful thing if we had used that money to buy a world class loose head I don't think we would be in the position we are.
Quote:Telegraph Gareth Davies
The home side’s effort was hallmarked with impressive touches of brilliance by their All Black World Cup-winning fly-half Stephen Donald, both in hand and with his boot.
Whatever he was drinking at the wreck can I have a pint.
You will sort yourselves out and come back nil desperandum.
Top of the League 2014-2015 Season
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2012 09:02 by Bob Stainsby.
Bob - not that I routinely distrust fellow rugby supporters but I had to go and read that for myself on the Telegraph website to be sure it wasn't a misquote!
Still his Twitter account summary gives some clue to his level of rugby knowledge - Gareth A Davies is boxing and UFC mixed martial arts correspondent for The Telegraph, London, and host of the ESPN UFC Podcast.
Nice to know the old traditions of making the match reports up in the pub are still going strong!
Still his Twitter account summary gives some clue to his level of rugby knowledge - Gareth A Davies is boxing and UFC mixed martial arts correspondent for The Telegraph, London, and host of the ESPN UFC Podcast.
Nice to know the old traditions of making the match reports up in the pub are still going strong!
Donald is a good player. He played today ahead of schedule because Tom wasn't fit and Sam has not looked good at fly half at any point this season.
Right now Donald is a much better organiser and distributor of the ball than Tom but you need runners and forward momentum to get through defences. Sadly we don't generate much forward momentum and a lot of the time our runners are going from a standing start.
Right now Donald is a much better organiser and distributor of the ball than Tom but you need runners and forward momentum to get through defences. Sadly we don't generate much forward momentum and a lot of the time our runners are going from a standing start.
He's the kind of FH who requires good players outside of him for him to function like he should do. He doesn't have that at the moment
He should have been replaced by Sam at half time as well as Nathan for Flats.
Quote:Coalminer
Donald is a good player. He played today ahead of schedule because Tom wasn't fit and Sam has not looked good at fly half at any point this season.
Right now Donald is a much better organiser and distributor of the ball than Tom but you need runners and forward momentum to get through defences. Sadly we don't generate much forward momentum and a lot of the time our runners are going from a standing start.
I can only assume you are taking the @#$%& with this post. Donald has been a massive disappointment and clearly either isn't up FOR it or isn't up TO it. His return ahead of 'schedule' doesn't excuse his lack of core skills and match sense. Compare him to an unfit / off peak Butch James - different level...
3 simple missed kicks, one blatant please run past to Mujate, and a missed tackle or two, eye off the ball in attacking position - sorry, he was@#$%&today.
As said above, maybe he needs good players in form to make him look good - he doesn't seem to be a player to bring out the best around him, rather the other way round.
As said above, maybe he needs good players in form to make him look good - he doesn't seem to be a player to bring out the best around him, rather the other way round.
Played like a @#$%& since he arrived, send him back!
Heavy Bath - I am not taking the @#$%&. Donald is a good player as are a lot of the others. He didn't have a great game today but he wasn't the worst
What has been a massive disappointment is the team as whole. We have been mediocre all season.
What really depresses me is that I think there is a lot more to come from the team and the coaches have not been able to harness that talent to an effective game plan.
Butch came in for a lot of stick on this board as well.
What has been a massive disappointment is the team as whole. We have been mediocre all season.
What really depresses me is that I think there is a lot more to come from the team and the coaches have not been able to harness that talent to an effective game plan.
Butch came in for a lot of stick on this board as well.
Coalminer, when Donald is paid what he is, he should be pretty outstanding on a bad day. The only thing he can do is pass and shout, Heathcote is a kicker who I'd back to get 75% consistently, he can tackle, pass and he fixes the opposition. He's also a 20 year old that has played very little rugby in the last two years. Donald is in his mid/late 20s and has over a dozen caps for NZ. He's been a very poor signing, partly due to lack of fitness, and also due to a poor game plan, but it's also largely due to a lack of talent in my opinion.
Quote:marshie10
has over a dozen caps for NZ.
Quote:marshie10
it's also largely due to a lack of talent
I never rated that Graham Henry bloke.
Quote:recmanQuote:marshie10
has over a dozen caps for NZ.Quote:marshie10
it's also largely due to a lack of talent
I never rated that Graham Henry bloke.
Had Nick Evans been available I doubt Donald would have more than a couple of caps. NZ really don't have a great deal of depth at 10. Let's for one moment pretend that Donald was English and we forget the "wow factor" of his nationality, if he were English I think he'd be comparible to the likes of Goode and Vesty.
Again as a neutral I am astounded that he is getting paid £400,000. Out of the overseas fly halves in the premiership he is by some distance the worst. Evans, Gopperth and Mieres are all players that you can build a team around. Donald is not.
As my family come from Hamilton I saw a lot of Donald when he was playing for the Waikato Chiefs and he has never really excelled. He lacks pace, is passing game in pretty ordinary and his kicking from hand is eclectic to say the least. The man can't punt the ball properly! He is technically all wrong and has to contort himself every time he has to clear his lines.
More generally it looks like you have quite a lot of dead wood in the team that needs to replaced by younger, hungrier players.
As my family come from Hamilton I saw a lot of Donald when he was playing for the Waikato Chiefs and he has never really excelled. He lacks pace, is passing game in pretty ordinary and his kicking from hand is eclectic to say the least. The man can't punt the ball properly! He is technically all wrong and has to contort himself every time he has to clear his lines.
More generally it looks like you have quite a lot of dead wood in the team that needs to replaced by younger, hungrier players.
He is still injured and never should have started, he was playing on 1 leg all afternoon.
Well I have seen him play on two legs on many occasions and he has never been up to much. It seems that even the worldly wise are sucked in by the allure of an All Black, no matter how good they actually are.
Heathcote on the other hand looks like a cracking prospect.
Heathcote on the other hand looks like a cracking prospect.
Beckenham Wasp, finally we've found someone who's actually seen Donald play more than a handful of games, and you're a neutral. It's interesting what you say because the Chiefs play an expansive game and I think Donald's range of passing is quite good but his talent, from what I've seen, ends there. In your opinion, what does he offer?
Quote:Beckenham Wasp
Heathcote on the other hand looks like a cracking prospect.
Who apparently had a poor game when he got his chance to play for England U20s the other week, according to people on here. It happens to the best of them...
I just wish views on Donald weren't so polarised, just because he missed a kick against Australia two or three years ago.
Whenever I saw him play in S14/15 he seemed to be pretty decent... don't remember him being dropped much for being rubbish.
He may well have seemed OK in S14/15 when he had the talent around him to enable his weaknesses to be papered over - however when he is almost certainly the highest paid player in the squad, you want someone who is papering over other players weaknesses with his talent, not the other way round.
Heathcote clearly isn't the finished article yet - you wouldn't expect that in his first season but the difference in talent on display is not worthy of an at least 8 fold differential in pay!
Heathcote clearly isn't the finished article yet - you wouldn't expect that in his first season but the difference in talent on display is not worthy of an at least 8 fold differential in pay!
Not Donald's fault how much he is being paid though, is it? Blame that on those who are paying him.
I agree with you, though, and if he had players playing well around him, I could easily see him yet being regarded as a success. Unfortunately, opinion about him has been unduly influenced by all the general negativity surrounding the club this season, and his delay in arriving after the world cup, his lack of fitness when he got here, and his recent injury, haven't helped. To me it feels like he hasn't yet started his Bath career properly.
I agree with you, though, and if he had players playing well around him, I could easily see him yet being regarded as a success. Unfortunately, opinion about him has been unduly influenced by all the general negativity surrounding the club this season, and his delay in arriving after the world cup, his lack of fitness when he got here, and his recent injury, haven't helped. To me it feels like he hasn't yet started his Bath career properly.
Quote:recman
Not Donald's fault how much he is being paid though, is it? Blame that on those who are paying him.
I agree with you, though, and if he had players playing well around him, I could easily see him yet being regarded as a success. Unfortunately, opinion about him has been unduly influenced by all the general negativity surrounding the club this season, and his delay in arriving after the world cup, his lack of fitness when he got here, and his recent injury, haven't helped. To me it feels like he hasn't yet started his Bath career properly.
Well try opening your eyes.He has started his "Bath career" and he has shown what a waste of money he is. He wasn't rated in NZ and there is a bl**dy good reason for that, as he continues to prove.....
I'm generally a big fan of what Donald CAN bring to a rugby pitch but at the moment it's going to take me a long time to forgive deliberately stepping out of Mujati's way. That's not the action of a team player.
Quote:Gareth Redux
I'm generally a big fan of what Donald CAN bring to a rugby pitch but at the moment it's going to take me a long time to forgive deliberately stepping out of Mujati's way. That's not the action of a team player.
Clearly a action of a player not playing with heart or the shirt,spot on GR
Donald has class, to have caps for the AB's takes class. He is not on form at moment, but i think that with Classens not on form, the centres changing evey game it just is impossible to settle into a team.
His tackling is something that needs adressing urgently, but that is something that can be dealt with.
His tackling is something that needs adressing urgently, but that is something that can be dealt with.
Well he was playing for a mid level Super XV team who have only made the playoffs a couple of times. I am afraid compared to someone like Glen Jackson he is just not on the same level.
His strengths would be his passing and physicality but he has always lacked the pace to threaten with ball in hand and his kicking game is stilted. He does not come across as having the instinctive ability that you expect from a world class 10.
From yesterday's performance, injured or not, he just did not look interested. The Premiership is a tough league and in some ways tougher than the domestic rugby down South. If Donald is only interested in a pension you should be ship him off as soon as possible.
His strengths would be his passing and physicality but he has always lacked the pace to threaten with ball in hand and his kicking game is stilted. He does not come across as having the instinctive ability that you expect from a world class 10.
From yesterday's performance, injured or not, he just did not look interested. The Premiership is a tough league and in some ways tougher than the domestic rugby down South. If Donald is only interested in a pension you should be ship him off as soon as possible.
Quote:Professor Griff
He is still injured and never should have started, he was playing on 1 leg all afternoon.
Then he shouldn't have been selected!! Sam Vesty may not set the world alight at 10 but at least his commitment can't be questionned.
IMHO Donald should be "allowed" to go back to NZ to recover from his knee injury and to consider whether or not he really wants to play for Bath next season.
If he does, then maybe with a full pre-season and his head in the right place we will see him earn his salary. If he doesn't then fine. It's a win/win for Bath.
I really don't think we have ever seen Donald completely fit. Either from an initial lack of cardio fitness, then his hip? injury that he was carrying for a few games and now yesterday he certainly wouldnt have been quite right.
Yes, his perfonamces have still been disappointing but I won't be writing him off until he has had a pre-season with the team. Same situation with Barkley, until he had a rest and a pre-season I would want to say he is past it like some have.
Yes, his perfonamces have still been disappointing but I won't be writing him off until he has had a pre-season with the team. Same situation with Barkley, until he had a rest and a pre-season I would want to say he is past it like some have.
I'm going to give him next season before casting him off back to New Zealand. He shows glimpses of what he can do with some fine passing and little breaks, he's also one of the best defensive 10s I've seen but the tackle on Mujati was awful, he just wasn't paying attention. He just needs some time to ease into the team and Bath. A summer of not having to concentrate on rugby might do him well, he's had a long year. I think he'll come good but I may just be being optimistic.
Does he want an opt out from his contract? That was going around yesterday.
Quote:The Oilman
Does he want an opt out from his contract? That was going around yesterday.
If he does... give it him ASAP
I believe the club and Donald can come to a mutual agreement that will see Donald return home. It would not surprise me if this does occur.
Is he as underwhelmed by Bath as we are by him?
He's bound to be in some ways - back in NZ he went from being hated to be loved after kicking the winning penalty (just). And he had to then come up here, it would be like leaving a surprise birthday party that's being thrown for you in order to go and do a well-paid nightshift...
He was obviously carrying an injury from the off, you could see it in the way he walked ... I pointed this out to some Saints guys sat next to me ("Who's Donald ..?"). This does not explain his pathetic tactical kicking though ...
Bendy took a dead-leg knock in the first half, and very nearly left the pitch, but soldiered on.
The cupboard is looking a tad bare at present ... and I do not only refer to the trophy cupboard !!!
Bendy took a dead-leg knock in the first half, and very nearly left the pitch, but soldiered on.
The cupboard is looking a tad bare at present ... and I do not only refer to the trophy cupboard !!!
IMHO he needs a decent injury-free run in the side. So far it has all been patchwork. He has been out for seven weeks and cannot be judged on this performance. Having said that, the future obviously lies with Tom Heathcoate. Interestingly, I had the opportunity to speak briefly with Vunipola senior last week (he used to coach Wycombe RFC). He made the quiet observation that the first thing to get right in any team - is the pack. It seems to me, that we are giving away unnecessary penalties in the front row - week after week.Is this a coaching issue?
One thing for sure is that this season will be a monumental learning curve for Mr Craig. It'll wake him up to the fact that you can buy an underperforming club that is disjointed as much off the pitch as it is on it, bung millions and install your own men, only for it to underperform and remain as disjointed as before.
I hope that he'll sort a no-nonsense proven coach as soon as possible, then spend the off season consolidating and re-building for a fresh, positive start in 2012-13.
I also hope he leaves the coaching to those he employs to do the work and not take it upon himself to impose his views directly on the team a la Mr Abramovic.
I hope that he'll sort a no-nonsense proven coach as soon as possible, then spend the off season consolidating and re-building for a fresh, positive start in 2012-13.
I also hope he leaves the coaching to those he employs to do the work and not take it upon himself to impose his views directly on the team a la Mr Abramovic.
RCC makes a very valid point.
We are in danger of becoming a Chelsea or even worse QPR, where the millionaires think they can buy a toy and dictate the play.
I am grateful to Mr Craig for buying the club and for his investment into Farleigh etc. but the playing decisions must be allowed to be made by those employed to do so.
Mr Craig's biggest error thus far was bringing in SIM and allowing him to shove out Meehan. His second biggest error was thinking he could outspend the other clubs and buy success.
We now need him to make amends. Sack SIM, bring in Michael Cheika and get Meehan Back from Brisbane. Then let the re-building commence under Strong and knowledgable leadership.
We are in danger of becoming a Chelsea or even worse QPR, where the millionaires think they can buy a toy and dictate the play.
I am grateful to Mr Craig for buying the club and for his investment into Farleigh etc. but the playing decisions must be allowed to be made by those employed to do so.
Mr Craig's biggest error thus far was bringing in SIM and allowing him to shove out Meehan. His second biggest error was thinking he could outspend the other clubs and buy success.
We now need him to make amends. Sack SIM, bring in Michael Cheika and get Meehan Back from Brisbane. Then let the re-building commence under Strong and knowledgable leadership.
Quote:marshie10
I believe the club and Donald can come to a mutual agreement that will see Donald return home. It would not surprise me if this does occur.
If Donald and Bath were to part company, it would be extremely naive for anyone to think that Tom Heathcote can take full responsibility for the 10 shirt this early in his career.
Donald would have to be replaced by a quality player and TH should be nurtured, in the same way Ford is handled at Tigers, until he reaches maturity without risk of burnout, which we are in danger of if he takes the shirt too soon.
Never look back. Meehan was as much part of the previous problem as SIM is now. New coach, new broom. If whoever it is wants his own men, let him have them, even if that means farewell to Brad or Haagy.
Apparently he's been unfit in every game I've seen him: bath, s 15, all blacks. Can anyone point me at a performance where he's shown he's worth £400k?
Just a thought, but perhaps if Beaver wants out and the club are willing to let him go at the end of the season, they're playing him now regardless of fitness to at least recoup some of their money?
Quote:Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
Just a thought, but perhaps if Beaver wants out and the club are willing to let him go at the end of the season, they're playing him now regardless of fitness to at least recoup some of their money?
Why not cut their losses and let him slip quietly out of the country?
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