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Re: Wasps
P G Tips (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 19:46
Guys

Wasps are traditionally a N West London club (Sudbury) but also with a strong Buckinghamshire connection - Adam Black & Sir W Borlase's GS Marlowe in 1970s, supported by recruiting from RGS H Wycombe a little later.

To the point of the thread though, it's hard to deny that 4,300 is a poor turnout for a Euro Q Final - Bath got 9-10,000 in 2003 for similar games while staring relgation in the face.

PG

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 19:48
Quote:
Gareth Redux
I believe we are no longer Bath Football Club

Too subtle for me, please expand?



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Re: Wasps
arquero (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 19:49
Quote:
TCM2007
Quote:
arquero
Weren't the clubs used as comparisons already named for the towns/cities where they were based, i.e. Leicester, Exeter, Northampton,etc., with the nicknames added around the time of professionalism? Whereas Wasps were, er... Wasps, and the name London was (bizzarely) the bit that was added at about that time?

Indeed; and since there are no other top level clubs called "Wasps" which they had to be distinguished from, the only reason I can see for adding the "London" tag is to suggest they they represent London. Why else do it?

Maybe they were feeling left out!

 
Re: Wasps
Gareth Redux (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 19:49
We changed our name?

Sorry Stu, still working hard to find evidence to back up your assertion of fact. I'm sure I'll get there, you'd pick others up for it so am just working on your behalf eh?(Sm141)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 19:52 by Gareth Redux.

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 19:51
Yes, Gareth, we did. Keep going til you get to your point!



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Re: Wasps
arquero (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 20:05
Stuart,

I think we're all agreed that it was a bizarre (which I spelled incorrectly earlier) move to change the name to London Wasps, we're merely haggling over the reasons for doing so. Is there REALLY any point in continuing to do so when we're never likely to find a definitive answer to that one? If you're happy to believe it is to represent
10 million of the population, that's your prerogative. I, along with others, don't believe it was - that's ours!

If you're right, it didn't bloody work, did it, with only a little over 4k at the game today! I guess the 10 million or so Londoners have worked out that HW ain't in London.

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 20:17
The more serious point Arquero, which I would be genuinely interested in knowing your perspective on, is with Wasps fan base dwindling, but its cost base presumably still high, how long can it be sustained as the club it is?

Is a new owner just going to sink millions into running costs?

Or restructure it to be more like Wuss or Exeter in terms of costs?



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Re: Wasps
arquero (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 20:30
The questions you are asking are similar to those - and others- being asked regularly by Wasps supporters. Unfortunately, the information coming from official sources is minimal. Understandable I suppose, when there are confidentiality agreements, etc. in place, but frustrating nonetheless.

At this stage the new owners can't come soon enough, to be frank. The public announcement that SH wanted to offload and the consequent state of limbo has only exacerbated the conjecture, and we're now even beginning to question where particular rumours started!

Hopefully changes for the benefit of the Club will take place soon after the sale is complete, and hopefully a resurgence of support will accompany those changes. I can't be any more definitive than that at this stage, because those that I know who are probably "in the know" are keeping lips tightly sealed, and I admire them for that. It only adds to the frustration in the real world, though.

To be truthful, I lapsed my STHs the the season before last because I didn't like the way things were being run. I'd happily renew once the new regime makes its intentions known.



(Edited because inadvertently posted before message complete)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 20:36 by arquero.

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 20:41
The apparrent successful secrecy is impressive.



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Re: Wasps
arquero (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 21:00
With all that is at stake, including livelihoods etc., not to mention the future of the Club it's not real surprise, though. Why jeopardise it purely to spill the beans to the odd acquaintance or a few relative strangers?

I guess it shows a "need to know" basis at work.

 
Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 21:31
Quote:
Gareth Redux
I believe we are no longer Bath Football Club

That still wrangles my naggles big style - change it back Bruce and you'll have a whole new range of merchandise revenue, and a B! - F! - C! Chant from the terraces straight away!



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Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
07 April, 2012 21:36
Not up to Bruce, the old name is I'm 99% sure till owned by the Trustees Co. But I agree.

Also if you're reading BC, kill the #13 shirt and have our full back wear 16 - us oldies will love you forever!



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Re: Wasps
Beckenham Wasp (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 03:28
Just a few comments. The London prefix was added to the Wasps professional side's name in 1999 to differentiate the pro club from the continuing amateur side Wasps Football Cub who have just won Middlesex/Herts 1. It is similar to the way that Sale were remained Sale Sharks and Gosforth were renamed Newcastle Falcons. See.

[www.pitchero.com]

In terms of the drop off in support there has been a general dissatisfaction with Steve Hayes since he took over in 2008. This culminated in the mishandling of the season ticket renewals for the 2011/12 season when the prices for the best seats, where many of the older long term supporters sat, were massively hiked by 20% or more.

[www.wasps.co.uk]

That increase effectively lost the club about 1,500 season ticket holders. The base crowd therefore dropped from about 7,000 to something more in the region of 5,500.

Going forward it is vital, absolutely vital, that the club move back to West London to a ground suited to rugby and well connected to the London Transport network. The lenient interest and support for the club is substantial, bigger than both Irish and Sarries, and I have no doubt with the right location a mid table Wasps side would get a regular crowd of 10,000. Out of the likely options on the table moving to a new ground at either Barnet FC's training ground in Harrow or sharing the proposed Brentford Community Stadium near Kew Bridge are the best options in my book.

 
Re: Wasps
LOTW (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 08:10
Beckenham Wasp - are you the Wasp's shirt I regularly see at New Beckenham Station?

 
Re: Wasps
mines a black rat (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 10:13
Also applying what Wasps have gone through what would happen to Bath should BC2 become disinterested??

Picking up on the ST hike it is why my uncle a ST holder from the Sudbury days did not renew, he was disqusted at the way Hayes marganilised Wasps, a visit to the club shop proves this.



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Re: Wasps
Gareth Redux (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 10:18
He's interesting the police at the moment

Hacker Hayes???

 
Re: Wasps
Griff (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 10:42
Quote:
Gareth Redux
But do Wasps claim that?

Yes, when they changed their name to London Wasps.The club were using the spin, Wasps were the only club with a London post code and therefore the only club truely London club!



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Re: Wasps
Beckenham Wasp (IP Logged)
08 April, 2012 19:51
I am afraid that I don't use New Beckenham station but do sometimes walk around the town in a faded Wasps shirt circa 1997.

At the time Wasps were the only team that had a London postcode when the 'London' tag was added. I can assure all that I have never met a longstanding supporter who has ever called them 'London Wasps' and even in official communications 'Wasps' in invariably used.

In terms of Steve Hayes he was always viewed with a certain degree of suspicion as he lacked a rugby background and had made his money from selling high interest loans to poor people. This was reinforced by a number of dismissive performances during Q&A sessions with season ticket holders. Class, money does not buy!

In terms of the seasons tickets after a very poor season in 2010/11 the prices were hiked by 20% or more in some areas and the renewal date was shifted forward to the end of May. With a huge price increase, a lack of a Director of Rugby, no incoming new players announced and a general dislike of Hayes many season ticket holders just walked when forced into an early renewal.

The sooner Hayes leaves the better as his only interest in the club was to use it as a Trojan Horse with which to facilitate a real estate deal in High Wycombe.

 
Re: Wasps
Blocks2u (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 15:58

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:33
If they go into administration, it's a 22 point deduction even if they are then saved.

Not good. Clubs' success or failure should be decided on the pitch.



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Re: Wasps
Griff (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:38
Doesn't sound to promising for them. Makes you appriciate what AB and BC2 did, and are doing for us financially!

Stuart - if they go into administrartion in the off season is the 22 point deduction added at the start of the 2012-2013 season?



Kyle Eastmond Adopted player 2014/15

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Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:39
It's up to the RFU whether to apply it retroactively or to the next season.



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Re: Wasps
Griff (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:41
Quote:
TCM2007
It's up to the RFU whether to apply it retroactively or to the next season.

Sounds like it could get messy if it does happen!



Kyle Eastmond Adopted player 2014/15

"You're going to need a bigger boat"

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:43
Yes, especially if there is no relegation because of who wins the Championship!

Anyway, I'm sure we all hope it won't happen and they will sort the mess out.



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Re: Wasps
mines a black rat (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 17:20
Doesnt sound good on the Wasps site!!

[www.rugbynetwork.net]



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Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 17:55
Le Hask would be looking for a home



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Re: Wasps
Griff (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 18:27
Quote:
TCM2007
Yes, especially if there is no relegation because of who wins the Championship!
Anyway, I'm sure we all hope it won't happen and they will sort the mess out.

Hopefully something will get sorted

 
Re: Wasps
Peasedown Exile (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 18:29
How can a club that has won so much over the years face death??? What has happened?? Where are all the fans?? Sad , really sad.



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Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 18:42
Quote:
Peasedown Exile
How can a club that has won so much over the years face death??? What has happened?? Where are all the fans?? Sad , really sad.

The curse of SIM!



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Re: Wasps
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 18:43
From what I've heard and seen, many of the hooray henrys are now to be seen at Quins!



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Re: Wasps
Bri (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 18:44
Wish them all the best,sure they'll be ok.

 
Re: Wasps
Sid's Dad (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 19:03
Quote:
TCM2007
Not up to Bruce, the old name is I'm 99% sure till owned by the Trustees Co. But I agree.
Also if you're reading BC, kill the #13 shirt and have our full back wear 16 - us oldies will love you forever!

Absolutely! And have our openside wearing '6' just to round things off please.

Incidentally, up until we went professional I believe we were 'Bath Football Club (RFU) 1865'. At least that's what it says on my hooped SWEB jersey.

 
Re: Wasps
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 19:37
And mine, Sid's dad!
(I take it you are higher up the pecking order than Sid the Seagull?)

 
Re: Wasps
Aidan (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 00:43
Best of luck pests, wouldn't wish this on any club



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Re: Wasps
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 08:56
It doesn't sound good at all for them. I'm sure many of their squad will be getting their lawyers to look at their contracts and will be looking to play elsewhere to secure themselves financially.

They do seem to have fallen very fast, but never seemed to be able to build a decent sized fan base on the back of their success.

 
Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 09:23
Market forces I guess!



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Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 09:29

 
Re: Wasps
OutsideBath (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 09:39
Wasps' current situation IMO reinforces the need to keep the salary cap, even if it means HK success for PL sides becomes less likely.

Clearly HK success is no concern for us at all though. (Sm136)

 
Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 10:16
Just another famous name

.........like, Orrell, Richmond, L.Scottish etc



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Re: Wasps
OutsideBath (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 10:19
Would hate to see Wasps' go into administration and allow the Falcons to stay up

 
Re: Wasps
Bod (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 10:20
Quote:
OutsideBath
Would hate to see Wasps' go into administration and allow the Falcons to stay up

I'd see it the other way!



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Re: Wasps
Boy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 11:20
Hadn't realised their troubles were as bad as that. I thought Bradford Bulls' recent plea to raise 1m in a month was bad, but finding twice that for Wasps doesn't look good.

As it hasn't happened before, does anyone know if Wasps do see the season out and unfortunately go into administration in the summer, would the points penalty be applied retrospectively to this season (therefore potentially changing the relegation), or would they start 2012/13 on -15 (assuming they can last that long)?

 
Re: Wasps
The Oilman (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 12:00
According to the Torygraph:
Rugby Football Union regulations state that any club who remain in administration beyond six weeks will be docked 22 points, which would mean Wasps are relegated to the Championship

 
Re: Wasps
Beer Belly (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 12:42
Surely that depends when they go into administration - which I don't think has happened yet has it?

Doesn't the Premiership Final signify the end of the season - when everything is done and dusted - who's going down and who's coming up and all that?

If that's the case then six weeks prior to that is this Saturday - so if they can stave off Administration 'til next Monday (and I genuinely hope that that is not neccessary) does this then become next season's problem for someone?

Sorry - lots of questions there but lots to discuss.



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Re: Wasps
Boy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 12:53
That's what I was wondering, Beer Belly. Seems to be a 15 point penalty for going into administration at all (even if it's only for a short period of time), which extends to 22 points if they're still in it in six weeks time.

It seems they have enough funds currently for the next month, which would leave them a couple of weeks short of the end of the season, so if they raise enough funds just to see them through and then go into administration as soon as the season is over (with the hopes of a takeover being completed in the summer), would their league points for 11/12 be altered, or would they start 12/13 with a negative points balance?

Starting a new season on -15 points wouldn't be ideal, obviously, but a decent enough season which would normally be mid-table form (i.e. potentially only 3 wins more than the bottom team) wouldn't be a death sentence.

 
Re: Wasps
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 12:57
I'd imagine PRL would not want the risk of them staying up and then going pop in September, leaving all the clubs short of a fixture.

I guess Newcastle and Bristol will be having crossed fingers!

 
Re: Wasps
WestonDave (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 13:22
Makes you wonder whether Hayes was only ever in it for the profits from redeveloping Adams Park or whatever its called now, and with the council putting the kybosh on that he's got no real reason to keep pouring good money after bad.

In theory if they can keep things together until the summer they will have ST receipts coming in, but in practice the uncertainty is likely to make supporters wary of paying upfront for ST's (knowing they would lose it all if the club went into administration) so it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Does very much look like unless a buyer can be found before the current cash runs out, they will be going bust.

 
Re: Wasps
Stuart Anderton (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 13:26
I don't know where the 15 points is coming from - the RFU regs say 22.

Quote:
, in the event that a Club playing in the Premiership ... suffers an Insolvency Event, that club shall suffer a points deduction equal to one fifth of the total number of available points (including bonus points)


22 games, 5 pts each = 110 pts. One fifth = 22.

If they went into administration after the end of the season it would be up to the RFU whether to apply it this season or next, unless they got relegated anyway, when it would definitely apply next season.



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Re: Wasps
Sid's Dad (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 13:40
Quote:

Just don't expect Dave Pearson to spot it.

 
Re: Wasps
Rampant (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 14:04
Might not be such a bad thing for Wasps to go into administration and go down. They need to re-evaluate where they are as a club, take stock of their resources and put in a place a robust 5year plan for stabilisation and growth.

At the moment they dont own their ground, I not even sure they own their training ground either (used to belong to QPR). They have no assets apart from the players.

Im not even sure that moving back to West or North West London would work for them either. Brentford's new ground may be an option, but plans are mothballed due to the financial market.

However it might be time to bite the bullet and move to either Windsor or South East London and become Blackheath Wasps..



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