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Re: SIM, what a tool
m0rris (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 18:44
The personal slights against the players are unfair as I am sure that 99% of the time they give their all on the pitch and the poor individual results that we have seen on the pitch have often been lacking due to niggles, lack of fitness, poor selection and finally lack of a gameplan. The players give their best on most if not all occasions.

On the other hand you have to ask why so many fans dislike McGeechan and it isn't just the ERE crowd. So many of us held high hopes of SIM and thought he'd be the man to turn us around... on that he has failed despite fairly good recruitment. However, what has been important in turning so many against him is the manner of his tenure. So far there have been allegations of dodging interviews, he rarely looks like he cares during matches and has been responsible for forcing out Meehan (I know he forced out Bakewell but two wrongs don't make a right). That's why people are fully within their rights to criticise the man.

As for why ERE isn't a "happy family place"* any longer, the failures on the pitches and the constant battles over why we were@#$%&have driven away most. A split occured where there was the a general theme of if you support the club you are a club "fanboy" and if you criticise the club or an individual you are a "troll". It continues to this day and I suspect is the reason why half the names that were regulars this time last year are no longer posting... it's not likely to change for a while either.

*I know of few if any places on the internet that come close to this ideal

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
bathstigg (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 18:48
I don't think third hand info from this poster is very credible. SIM has let Bath down and his refusal to take responsibility as DOR has annoyed me. I think fans were led to expect much more from the players and coaches this season. onwards and upwards there is no need to insult SIM but not impressed at his tenure at the club.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
BathBeaver (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 20:36
Quote:
B4thB4ck

It's a shame that since appearing on this forum, Fairshout seems to have been ridiculed by some for taking this view.


Personally, I have no problems with FairShouts views, however it is the pompous, condescending way he addressed those who do not agree with him that I find unnecessary.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 20:56
It must be horrible to have to endure what Grandad has gone through. I feel ashamed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 21:21
Quote:
Ex-Bod

Is this meeting of the Bath & Wells Diocesan Synod on all weekend?

http://www.bathandwells.org.uk/static/connect/issue16/images/ordinands.jpg


(Sm8)


This is a broad church Bod, let us pray for better ball next season.

Now for our 1st hymn, Jerusalem.....

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 22:30
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
It must be horrible to have to endure what Grandad has put Bath Rugby through. If I were him I'd feel ashamed.

That's what you meant Bill?



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 22:35
I will continue to challenge abusive posts

This post "SIM, what a tool" is to what end...come on folks enough with the past, time to move on

I am NOT going to back down just because I too have now joined the those who receive personal insults on ere.

There is no right or wrong way in challenging personal and distasteful posts. To be told that the way I write them is the problem, not what I write is just laughable. Either abuse is condemned or not I do not offer any personal abuse to anyone.

For so long I have read posts from a certain select minority and it almost borders on a form of bullying, that is if you do not share their views. Well I am NOT going to be bullied and this a Rugby Fans forum and i hope we stick to rugby.

SIM what a tool...not the subject that most want to read about.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 22:42
I agree FS, the thread title is far from appropriate. "Tool" implies a degree of usefulness or perhaps artesian value or skill/integrity!



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 23:48
Bod,

This is what I said....

"Re: SIM, what a tool
Posted by: WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)
Date: 28 April, 2012 20:56

It must be horrible to have to endure what Grandad has gone through. I feel ashamed."

And that is what I meant....

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
fat lock (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 23:52
FS

Whilst I appreciate what you're trying to say, unfortunately the hyperbole, attitude of superiority, and self appointed wisdom on all things ERE weakens your position.

SIM what a tool...not the subject that most want to read about.

The page views suggest your statement on behalf of the majority is false.
More views on this thread than on the match report from the Wasps match, which is considerably older.

The site is populated by fans who will have opinions - and thank the lord they differ. After a poor season with little excitement and even less treasured memories the tone will be more narky.
There is one thing that will return the tone to a more supportive and uplifting one and that is when we start being entertained at the Rec again, and maybe even start to win a few matches against the teams currently above us in the table.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 23:58
The thread title is regrettably childish.

Everyone agrees Bath have had a disappointing season and have played some dismal rugby under SIM.

Whether those things are entirely his personal fault is debatable. He certainly failed to prevent them, so his leaving is appropriate.

Some not only think he was personally entirely responsible, but for some undefinable reason did it deliberately. That goes too far.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 00:14
Quote:
TCM2007
The thread title is regrettably childish.
Everyone agrees Bath have had a disappointing season and have played some dismal rugby under SIM.

Whether those things are entirely his personal fault is debatable. He certainly failed to prevent them, so his leaving is appropriate.

Some not only think he was personally entirely responsible, but for some undefinable reason did it deliberately. That goes too far.

He does his case against these suspicions very little by his regular disappearances from the front line. Why he's not been asked to leave immediately is probably an "image rights" issue and nothing to do with the best on pitch interests of the paying public. BC2 and NB don't really realise how much work they need to do to regain credibilty after indulging the SIM fiasco - they should start coaching at U7s and report in regularly to tell us what they've learned!



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FourSticks (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 00:26
Is this what you were talking about?

SIM Tool

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 00:26
While not accepting your start point, why does BC need your credence?



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 01:13
Because he's happily presided over season 11/12 without the slightest wavering of support for a bust hand.
Let us all hope he is no longer as miss guidedly star struck as the idiots that recomended the Knighthood in the first place.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Which Tyler (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 07:48
BC and NB aren't coaches - why would they start coaching?
by "happily presided over season 11/12 without the slightest wavering of support for a bust hand" do you mean that he's been blatantly unhappy with things, and visibly agitated; and has fired the person responsible the on-pitch performance. Does that really count as unwavering support?



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Avers (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:27
A Famous tool
[youtu.be]

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:43
He's not fired anyone WT!



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:50
As I've said before, I'm more inclined to believe the sentiments of those who've played under or coached with McGeechan than the unsubstantiated comments of Bod, who's unrelenting hatred of the man seems to stem from a piece of bad driving (allegedly), and a chat with a bloke at a dinner.

In contrast, read the comments of Mears, Gatland, Brian Moore, Guscott, Shaun Edwards, Jamie Roberts, O'Driscoll, Johnson etc who all spoke very highly of the man.

A no brainer. He might not have worked for us this season, but McGeechan is not the person painted by sone of the myopic bile-mongers on ERE.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 10:11
The "no brainer" assumption is wonderfully ironic RCC!
(Sm6)



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Widcombe Boy (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 10:14
Quote:
fat lock
FS
Whilst I appreciate what you're trying to say, unfortunately the hyperbole, attitude of superiority, and self appointed wisdom on all things ERE weakens your position.
SIM what a tool...not the subject that most want to read about.The page views suggest your statement on behalf of the majority is false.
More views on this thread than on the match report from the Wasps match, which is considerably older.

The site is populated by fans who will have opinions - and thank the lord they differ. After a poor season with little excitement and even less treasured memories the tone will be more narky.
This still doesn't condone being abusive or rude to fellow ereites. As someone said we are all fans of the club and all havd differing views but should still post with some respect to each other & this is not aimed at you FL
There is one thing that will return the tone to a more supportive and uplifting one and that is when we start being entertained at the Rec again, and maybe even start to win a few matches against the teams currently above us in the table.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
PhilHallFan (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 10:17
I've always thought there was something a bit flawed about people who drive flash cars with personalised number plates. Not usually a sign of a modest character.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bri (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 11:43
Or of people that make assumptions,possibly his wife bought the plate for him?it amazes me how many people seem to know Sir Ian's character.I've have felt honour to speak to the great man three times,Once at a United game,once at a first team game both at the Rec and once up at Newcastle after the game.He was very approachable and not aloof.Ok it's not happened here for him but let's not blacken the guy who's had a wonderful career and wish him all the best for the future.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 12:10
Struth...now we are entering into the realm of discussing people with flash cars with personalised number plates are flawed...WOW.
Forget the hard working folk who have built up a position to afford to spend their money on what they chose...add to that our best player at the club. Are you suggesting after the season he has had he is also flawed?

SIM was not my type of coach.
I did not want SIM in the first place
SIM never got the team playing as I or we all wanted
Im pleased that SIM is moving on

Im also pleased that as with Bri, he was approachable, made time to talk to fans and I also found him to be down to earth.

Time to move away from the ridiculous posts of flash cars...if not I hope the new coach, if reading the above, trades in his posh car, especially if it has a personalised number plate and cycles to the Rec! (Great bike shop in Walcott street!)

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 12:16
Quote:
Ex-Bod
Because he's happily presided over season 11/12 without the slightest wavering of support for a bust hand.
Let us all hope he is no longer as miss guidedly star struck as the idiots that recomended the Knighthood in the first place.

You missed the point of my question. Why should BC feel the need to have credibility in your eyes? Why should he care what you think?

He's not going to face the public vote and have to sing again on Sunday.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 12:34
Stuart....totally agree with you

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bod (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 13:04
Quote:
TCM2007
Quote:
Ex-Bod
Because he's happily presided over season 11/12 without the slightest wavering of support for a bust hand.
Let us all hope he is no longer as miss guidedly star struck as the idiots that recomended the Knighthood in the first place.

You missed the point of my question. Why should BC feel the need to have credibility in your eyes? Why should he care what you think?

He's not going to face the public vote and have to sing again on Sunday.

Does he want the supporters with him or agin him, and does he want our money?



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dOg4Ljp3kh8/Sf89bRrqecI/AAAAAAAAAJY/eJCF1kt4b0E/s200/DON%27T-SHOOT-THE-MESSENGER1.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 15:46
You <> "the supporters"

You weren't talking about being for or against him, you were talking about "credibility", whatever the might mean in this conte t.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
fat lock (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 17:28
I think BC's credibility as a rugby owner has yet to be earned - but in fairness he hasn't had long to do so.

As I understand it Brownsword kept the club going because of his love of Bath rather than Bath Rugby per se. He earned a great deal of credibility and thanks from most people for doing so in a quiet dignified and generous way. He let the rugby men sort the rugby and he was there to help in what ways he could (mainly money and business guidance).

BC has provided the money and invested into the club in a way AB would never do. For that all fans are grateful I expect. Trouble is he hasn't yet earned his spurs as a rugby club owner - so far his big appointments (surely one of his most important roles) have been poor. He lacks the quiet dignity that AB brought, or that other major club owners have (Pete Tom or the Barwells). He has demonstrated his immaturity when joining in player huddles after a loss (if ever someone would be justified to lamp their boss it must surely be then!). He has shown a lack of respect to the traditions of the club with the silly gladiator idea.

I am grateful for what he has done - but am worried that the club is his play thing. It is more than that - he is but a custodian of it for the future. I've heard many say that since BC owns the club he can do what he pleases - well I don't agree with that, and whilst I'm grateful for his investment I'm worried what is happening to the club.

Of course it may not be BC at all but his mate who he's appointed to run the club.

All the above posted with the obvious caveat that it's all in my opinion and no more valid than the preceding or subsequent posts.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
PhilHallFan (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 17:37
Very well put fat lock.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bri (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 17:49
Fat lock,I also in parts agree with you,that BC seems to want to higher his profile by being the Owner of our club.Letting the TV Cameras at his home in France but if that what he wants to do good luck to him.
No one is perfect and mistakes have possibly been made from the top down but surely this would happen with any new owner.
I am very grateful for his investment bevause if he pulled out we would go into free fall just like Wasps IMHO.
BC wants us to be a top team in Europe and we all know that ain't happening overnight,so I see us having a roller coaster ride for the next five years but I'm glad to be on it as it promises to be some trip.BBW

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
K9sixtwo (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:05
I think BC has done what he believes is best for the club, i wont be at the fans forum due to living in Cambs, we (bath supporters) are a diverse band who live over a large area, our views are as wide as the area we cover, no one person has a right to monopolise those views and berate others if the view they put over doesn't coincide with their viewpoint..
As for SIM, from the start i had considered he was NOT the right signing for the club, as much as he's a nice fella and all that, i suspected the way Smee was moved out was wrong, that said, BC has my full support and if the movers and shakers try to expand Baths fan base by gimmicks then i support that too, personally i won't dress up as a roman as i'd bear an uncany resemblance to caligula..As fans shouldn't we be saluting any attempt to widen the Bath Rugby fan base?



Nick Koster My Adoptee, 2012-13, Bringing Power and Pace

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
fat lock (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:18
As a fan I'd rather widen the fan base by improving the team on the pitch rather than have the supporters dress up as Romans.
A successful team, winning trophies and competing in Europe, will have a larger support than a boring disorganised one.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:30
Quiet dignity; Keith Barwell?

I know a lot of people have criticised BC's behaviour with the team after games, feeling it breaks some kind of code. I don't see the problem myself to be honest.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bri (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:35
Can't see a problem after the match but he does like a beer and a pose but so would I.What should the poor guy do, give us 5,000,000 a year but stay away.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:40
Im glad that we have an owner with deep pockets, who is passionate about rugby and hates losing at anything in life. I hope he stays and uses his vast wealth and business experience to the benefit of the club...however I have a few observations.

I hope that he works harder at understanding the importance of the relationship between club and fans. I have witnessed BC at a match (which I will not share in a public way) which really disappointed me and other supporters.

I will fully support his learning curve as an owner in relation to playing matters. What is surprising, is how he has not stepped in on the business side, which is his area of expertise. I am not impressed with the clubs communication, merchandising, corporate/brand development, club assistance of the Bath Supporters, ticketing etc. Looking at the company financials...I think that there is a heck of a lot of work to be done on new revenue generation.

There are too many fans with too many complaints. Some are valid others are not. Some are genuine and easy to resolve...so I suggest BC takes a look in on Tuesday and turns up and sits with NB...now that would impress me!

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
fat lock (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:44
Stuart I was thinking of the current Chair Leon Barwell.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:49
Interesting FairShout. Many of those areas you list I think have improved markedly under BC, and are certainly not weaknesses in my mind.

Always curious that people criticise communication; seems to me they spend enormous amounts of time and money communicating, whether through BRTV, the website, the programme or giving access to the Cron. Some things, like contracts, are behind the scenes and should stay that way, however curious about them we are.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
fat lock (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:50
Fairshout

I'd say the problems you've identified sit with CEO NB.

Bit too cosy having your mate run the place for you - I dare say his appraisal isn't too challenging.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bri (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 18:55
With all the progress on the Rec or non progress depending on where you sit,the on going Developement of Farliegh,something's may have taken a back seat,I'm sure as the training ground and The Rec Developement comes to hopefully a good out come all the other things Fair Shout mentions will fall into place.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 20:28
Stuart. Im right on board with you in relation to keeping matters confidential in relation to players / coaches contracts negotiations etc. However...

IMHO I believe that the communication between the club and supporters is poor. I will raise my thoughts at the Fans Forum on Tuesday rather than be over critical here, without giving the club the opportunity to comment and respond.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bath Fan (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 20:55
Faishout - I agree with a lot of your points but your turn of phrase does make me smile. No criticism intended in the slightest, but are you a vicar?

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 20:57
What do you think they should be doing more of FairShout?



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 22:33
I actually think that Bath Rugby communication is pretty good. The web site has improved a lot in recent years, the e-mail circulars are effective and most are worthwhile.

Where is the gap?

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
FairShout (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 23:25
Ok ...my main concerns are

Buying away tickets from our own ticket office can be a nightmare. Often sent back early to the other club, or told that they have been sent back, call the away team , who havent received them back, call back the Bath ticket office and hey presto they are still there after all. These are not isolated incidents

Try buying concessions tickets for away matches from our ticket office. It DOES NOT HAPPEN. They blame the away club and the away club blame our ticket office for making NO REQUESTS for concession tickets for Under16 and over 65.

I have asked politely on so many times to assist in resolving the issue of being able to buy tickets for the kids at the right price and in the same part of the ground as our own supporters...never had a sensible response all season. if its not our club's fault, then thats ok...just tell us.

Does the club assist with, or at least communicate and offer help with the away supporters travelling by coach etc? Leicester, Northampton and Gloucester...different, very different...speak to them

How many female supporters still complain about the toilet facilities and believe the club listen?

How long did it take the club to get the message across to the coaches and players, that at the end of the game , especially away from home and indeed abroad, to just give a recognition and a wave to the travelling supporters.

The promoting of our club to the junior fans is poor. I was told recently, that Bath have the worse official junior fan base in the Premiership, despite the fact we have more mini rugby clubs and kids that attend matches than most in a crowd of circa 12,000. Can see the start of a junior club, but a promise of a start is not impressive enough...so much more can be done. Oh it would be great to see the average age of the fan base come down (me included!!!)

Yes the website has greatly improved
BRTV is a good watch
The match day program is good
Merchandise is beginning to improve

All these improvements are based on NON fan based direct experience and participation!

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Armchair Fan (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 00:13
That wasn't very positive. Came across (unintentionally, I am sure) as a bit of a tirade in fact. Chin up!



_____________________________________________________

I like turtles.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 07:37
Quote:
FS
How many female supporters still complain about the toilet facilities and believe the club listen?

Now you have done it! Not to mention the daisies on the training ground that our players keep tripping over!! http://www.honeysuckle-cottage.org.uk/sofa.gif



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Optimist (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 08:10
One man's 'quiet dignity' is another man's 'lack of passion'. These boys who chuck money at rugby clubs just can't win!!

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
TCM2007 (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 13:08
FS, not many of those are communication problems.

Away coach travel has always been independently organised, and the club do point people in their direction.

The club sorted out acknowledging away fans years ago - although it sounds like there was a recent glitch.

Similarly there has been a kids fan club for years - mine always used to get a birthday card signed by a player.

We'll see the average age come down when we have a larger stadium and can afford to do more on junior pricing.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Re: SIM, what a tool
Bri (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 13:14
Fair shout,all you negativity is getting on my nerves.

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