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MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

O/T Overseas Politics
09 July, 2016 10:26
Fill your boots; anything to do with Non-UK politics; US Elections, US Gun crime, Wars in the Middle East etc.
Clearly marked as Off Topic, so feel free to ignore the thread if you don't want to read things not associated with Bath Rugby.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 July, 2016 11:52
Some stat.s relating to the current news from the US:
For those who've missed it, a [black] man called Alton Sterling1 in Baton Rouge was pinned and executed by police; footage of which has been circulating the internet for about 60 hours.
About 24 hours later, another [black] man, called Philando Castile1 in Minnesota was pulled over for a broken tail-light, and shot for (allegedly) obeying the cop's instructions; footage of the immediate aftermath is also circulating online.
Neither video is appropriate for this thread; but they are apparently very distressing, and easily found for those who wish.

A march was organised in Detroit2 under the BlackLivesMatter banner, to honour the victims; during which 5 cops were shot dead, and a few others (cops and civilians) were injured. Whilst another 2 cops have been shot in Georgia and St Louis which are thought to be linked (as in citizen anger, not organisation)
Joe Walsh3, a former Illinois congressman has said "3 Dallas cops killed, 7 wounded. This is now war. Watch out Obama. Watch out Black Lives Matters punks. Real America is coming for you." The term "Real America" is often used to mean "White America"




In 20154, 1,146 people were killed by the police in the USA.
In 20155, 13,286 people died by "gun violence" in the USA (excl suicide).
In 20156, 56 cops died as a result of violent assault (deliberate gunfire[39], vehicular assault[8], bomb[6], unarmed[3]).

20154 saw the following numbers killed by police in the USA:
581 White
306 Black
195 Hispanic / Latino
24 Asian / PI
13 Native American
27 Unknown / Other

In terms of dead (at police hands) per million of that population, we get:
7.27 Black
3.51 Hispanic/Latino
3.40 Native American
2.93 White
1.34 Asian / PI

Out of interest, and looking in a little more detail4.
Of the 1146 people killed by police in 2015; 1019 of them were shot.
Of that 1146; 229 of them were unarmed.
Of that 229: 111 of those died by gunshot; 46 by Taser, 42 died in custody, 29 struck by vehicle, 1 unarmed combat.
Of that 229, the racial breakdown is: 103 = White, 79 = black, 36 = Hispanic, 5 PI; 4 NA.




1: [www.bbc.co.uk]
2: [www.bbc.co.uk]
3: [www.chicagotribune.com]
4: [www.theguardian.com]
5: [www.bbc.co.uk]
6: [www.odmp.org]



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2016 12:38 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 July, 2016 08:41
[www.bbc.co.uk]



RIP the 84 dead;
RIP les 84 morts;

Best of luck to the 50+ critical;
Bonne chance aux 50+ grièvement blessés;

Deepest condolences for those with family / friends involved;
Sincères condoléances pour ceux avec des familles / amis impliqués;

France, we stand with you, shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm.
France, nous sommes avec vous, épaule contre épaule, bras aux bras.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2016 10:10 by Which Tyler.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 18:30
No one mentioning Turkey? Not sure what they're is to say other than 2016 keeps on giving.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 18:56
Turkey is such a fascinating place, historically, geographically, socially and politically. It has always been where East meets West and has therefore been heavily influenced, and sought to influence, very different cultures. This has made it very volatile over the centuries.

Kamal Ataturk put a lid on all of this by managing to convince all the various factions (most especially Western orthodox Christians, Muslims and Kurds) of the benefits of putting theology aside to form a modern secular state.

Turkey has had great prosperity and a lengthy period of peace and stability as a secular country.

Now Erdogan is turning back the clock. He is giving more prominence to Islam and theocratic rule and the age old rivalries are re-emerging as a result. He is increasingly authoritarian and uncompromising and there are well founded fears that he is cosying up to Islamic state, turning a blind eye to the movement of weapons and people and committing acts of atrocity against the Kurds who find themselves trapped between Turkey on one side and Syria on the other.

The fact that the EU is so intent on cosying up to Erdogan that it is itself turning a blind eye to all this has very worrying implications for the future.

The coup was attempted by the armed forces who see the direction that this is going and want to force the overthrow of Erdogan and a return to secular values.

Erdogan has a lot of support among the Muslim majority in Turkey though.

It's going to be fascinating over the next few days to see how this plays out. Will the EU and NATO get involved? Will Erdogan survive? What will Greece do?

It could lead to civil war and it could really ignite the region and bring the Middle East theological war right onto Europe's doorstep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2016 18:59 by malco.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 19:10
More interesting is how our new Foreign Secretary will act in helping the country of his great grandfather and who recently said that although we should leave, Turkey should join the EU!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2016 19:18 by CoochieCoo.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 19:29
Particularly in the light of the little ditty he wrote about Erdogan in the Spectator.

There was a young man from Ankara
Who was a terrific w*nkerer
Till he sowed his wild oats
With the help of a goat
But he didn't even remember to thankerer

That's going to make diplomatic meetings a little...awkward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2016 19:37 by malco.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 20:36
Terrifying.

History of Turkey

[en.wikipedia.org]

Cyprus

Cyprus[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2016 20:59 by WilliamBlessing.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 21:11
Quote:
CoochieCoo
More interesting is how our new Foreign Secretary will act in helping the country of his great grandfather and who recently said that although we should leave, Turkey should join the EU!

The coup seems to have been quickly suppressed so will we need to assist Turkey?

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 22:13
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
CoochieCoo
More interesting is how our new Foreign Secretary will act in helping the country of his great grandfather and who recently said that although we should leave, Turkey should join the EU!

The coup seems to have been quickly suppressed so will we need to assist Turkey?

BoJo might help them get into the EU with his influence!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
16 July, 2016 22:28
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
CoochieCoo
More interesting is how our new Foreign Secretary will act in helping the country of his great grandfather and who recently said that although we should leave, Turkey should join the EU!

The coup seems to have been quickly suppressed so will we need to assist Turkey?

BoJo might help them get into the EU with his influence!


I was thinking of military assistance and NATO.

Turkey needs no help from Boris. Merkel will eventually (soon) give them visa free travel in exchange for control of Syrians - despite the self-righteous gum bumping about having to meet criteria.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
18 July, 2016 20:23
How will Turkey's attempted coup affect the EU's refugee crisis?
PETER FOSTER

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
18 July, 2016 20:52
Five infamous purges

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 14:57

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 15:11
Quote:
Which Tyler
Bumpity Bump

When's the US election? Suspect it might see some action that night and beyond...

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 21:05
I was just fed up reading all about Hillary and Trump on a thread about a rugby player



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 21:21
Absolutely agree!!

I think that there should be a separate O/T category, however, it seems this was mooted previously and the forum voted for it to be part of the rugby thread.

There does seem to be an increasing political content on the board, not all of it rugby related.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 21:26
I (personally) had no problem with discussing South African rugby politics on a thread about the selection of a south African rugby player. But the discussion of US election candidates on a thread about a new Zealand rugby player seemed.. the entire purpose of this existing thread.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 October, 2016 21:48
The problem is though, that unless the topic has regular input it drops down the page out of site, the other politics thread stays in the headlines because a small group post regularly.

Dropping down the page would not occur so readily with a separate category.

I agree the SA content was far more relevant.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 05:37
WTF have I just woken up to?
Clinton 215 : 244 Trump



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 06:24
I haven't gone to bed yet but it looks odds on a Trump Presidency as Michigan and Pennsylvania are leaning red. The next 4 years are gonna be "interesting".



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 06:32 by joethefanatic.

 
HugoBoss
HugoBoss (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 06:56
I honestly cannot believe what's taking place over the pond. The similarities between his claims and statements and events in Europe between 1937-1945 are terrifying all things considered.

I've yet to hear an actual statement of value, evidence, experience and worth from him in his pledges. Everything that's left Trumps mouth during his campaign has been hollow words. He hasn't given the people of America anything to actually truely ponder and consider in the grand scheme of where their nation is going, he has treated them as morons; sensationalism and little more.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 07:13
I think that they would have voted for Krusty the Clown if it meant one in the eye for the establishment. The world seems a bit bored if good old stability... Think I might stay in bed for next few years (apart from match nights of course).



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 07:19
I couldn't vote for Trump, but what we are seeing is a groundswell of anger targeting soft left politics throughout the western world. Politics has polarised - people heading away from centre ground to both left and right - and most centrists are more fearful of polarised left politics than they are of polarised right politics. After years of political correctness, unfettered immigration, taxation and failing economics the centre left has made itself unelectable. This is far more central to what we are seeing than any rise of the right.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 07:59
Only takes for May to fall on her incompetent handling of Brexit and the doomsday scenario of Trump-Johnson is with us

I'm off down the bottom of the garden to dig that bunker

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 08:10
Ah well, the gin is cold, the night breeze is warm and the waves are breaking on the sand. I'll tune back in in 4 years time and see where we've got to.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 08:13
Nice, simple Adam Smith theory there malco but actually on this one it was the FBI wot won it

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 08:22
Quote:
gaz59
Nice, simple Adam Smith theory there malco but actually on this one it was the FBI wot won it

That's just silly. You have to look beyond conspiracy theories. This political polarisation is taking place right across the western world.

 
 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 08:50
Quote:
malco
I couldn't vote for Trump, but what we are seeing is a groundswell of anger targeting soft left politics throughout the western world. Politics has polarised - people heading away from centre ground to both left and right - and most centrists are more fearful of polarised left politics than they are of polarised right politics. After years of political correctness, unfettered immigration, taxation and failing economics the centre left has made itself unelectable. This is far more central to what we are seeing than any rise of the right.

I partially agree with this.

I think from Poland to Brexit to the US people are voting for control.

Consensus politics has told us for years there is only one way to do things.

Originally it held the best cards and won the arguments.

Gradually it has increasingly been proved wrong and it has had to resort to moralistic arguments instead of realistic arguments.

It's not enough to say voting Trump is morally wrong (it isn't) you've got to persuade people why they should vote for something that doesnt work for them.

You cant keep calling the voting population rascist, xdbophobic, stupid and expect people to vote out of fear of social castigation. Especially when they are the majority.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 08:58
Can't help but wonder if immigration won it for Trump in the same way that it did for the leave campaigners in our referendum.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 09:12
Simplistic on both counts OB. One of the big issues is the precipitous decline in well paid blue collar jobs which many blame on free trade and the ability of capital to move production overseas.

Trump has promised simple answers to very difficult questions.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
22Dropout
22Dropout (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 09:34
Many complex issues at play - including the distrust / dislike of Washington? But even then, the absolute key factor was the huge unpopularity of Ms Clinton. If pretty much any other democrat (Senator, Governor, male, female etc etc) had run against Trump they would have won. Simples!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 09:53
I've never understood why Ms Clinton was despised other than she just represented "Washington"? Disliked as a career politician and the rest I can see.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 09:58
Quote:
DanWiley
I've never understood why Ms Clinton was despised other than she just represented "Washington"? Disliked as a career politician and the rest I can see.

I don't claim any special insight, but I have read that she was linked to a raft of different scandals and politicking that didn't receive a huge deal of coverage over here.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:03
My understanding is that she's considered to be a corrupt corporate shill, and a war criminal who's been beset by scandals.
Of course, she's also as "establishment" as it gets. wife of former president, holding various offices under the current president; actively campaigning on providing another 4 years of the same.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 10:07 by Which Tyler.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:10
Nigel Farage dunnit.


John Snow wearing black arm band.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:15
I've picked up on a couple of her scandals, something about emails mainly? But compared to what Trump's been through? Maybe Trump's just got more coverage over here, but the things I heard don't sound like "the most hated of candidates" which is what I hear.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:25
Nationally classified documents on a private server is a threat to national security – from a person in a position of high responsibility.

As someone who has signed the Official Secrets Act, if I had done similar I would have been locked away.

 
22Dropout
22Dropout (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:30
Agreed! Will be interesting to see if Trump sticks to one of his key election pledges, which was to lock her up!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:37
"As someone who has signed the Official Secrets Act, if I had done similar I would have been locked away."

Well, quite, it's a legal issue. It needs to be investigated and prosecuted if there's a case. It shouldn't be an issue for the general public to vote on. But even that aside, in terms of what gets the general public to -hate- a politician, it doesn't seem even the same ball park as some of the things that Trump has done, her husband has done (maybe part of the issue), other presidents have done (watergategate), things UK politicians have done (plebgate for example), frankly things that Trump has said he wants to do.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:55
I repeat. Nationally classified documents on a private server is a threat to NATIONAL SECURITY so in terms of offence it is very high. One of the great Clinton claims was ‘No one is better qualified’. A casual attitude to classified information is a sign of unfitness for/incompetence in office.

For the FBI to dismiss it is frankly amazing. The latest many thousand documents were reviewed in a week which sounds highly irregular!

 
nixworld2
nixworld2 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 10:55
Quote:
Boldngrey
Nationally classified documents on a private server is a threat to national security – from a person in a position of high responsibility.
As someone who has signed the Official Secrets Act, if I had done similar I would have been locked away.

You know that the FBI have investigated this multiple times and have found nothing wrong?

[www.theguardian.com]

I am so staggered and saddened by this result that I am almost speechless. The leader of the free world is a sexist, racist, xenophobic bigot who wants to build a physical wall because all Mexicans are "rapists", thinks that women should be punished if they have an abortion, and has been filmed saying the most extraordinarily horrific things about women- and has a VP who thinks that gay people can be "cured" through conversion therapy. Good luck, America.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:04
There's a theme emerging here.

Those who feel the establishment is doing nothing for them are using the means at their disposal to demonstrate it.

Trump is president.
Leave won the referendum
Corbyn has taken over the Labour Party

What I'm not sure of is whether this is a new anti-establishment movement, or whether a complacent establishment let its guard down and has enabled people to express a pre-existing view.

There has not been a presidential candidate who was from outside of the political classes and not tied to a party machine before. We were't given a simple vote on the EU before. Labour leaders were always picked by MPs and union leaders.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:15
What could this phenomenon be called, Stupidpower?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:17
"A casual attitude to classified information is a sign of unfitness for/incompetence in office. "

Well, suppose that were proven, which is seems it isn't. I'd agree, it would be a reason not to vote for someone. It would not be a reason to campaign to "jail the @#$%&".

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:22
I think Malco and Stuart have identified the reasons.

These kind of "corrections of direction" are the stuff of US politics. A generation ago the US elected as President an ageing right winger with a simplistic popular message and seemingly an over simplified view of world politics and economics. Most commentators and the majority of European & British intelligentsia predicted disaster. Actually, we got a President who was extremely good for the free world.

Unfortunately I do not see Ronald Reagan in Donald Trump.


PG

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:37
Well summed up by Nick Bryant (BBC New York correspondent)

This election, surely the most extraordinary in American history, was a revolt against the political establishment.

And few people personify the political establishment more than Hillary Clinton. During this campaign, for millions of angry voters, she became the face of America's broken politics.

Donald Trump managed to persuade enough voters in enough states that he offered a fix. The billionaire cast himself successfully as the ultimate outsider against the ultimate insider. He was the protest candidate. She represented the status quo.




adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:41
Quote:
woodpecker
What could this phenomenon be called, Stupidpower?

It is the stupidity of those in power that has led to this. Is it any wonder this has happened when we see MP's abusing expenses, PM's on £300,000 consultancy lectures, unaccountable Euro expenses etc

Are we really surprised when at the first opportunity the man in the street hits out!

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:51
Quote:
Stuart Anderton

What I'm not sure of is whether this is a new anti-establishment movement, or whether a complacent establishment let its guard down and has enabled people to express a pre-existing view.


Not sure that's an either/or proposition Stu - one has lead to the other perhaps?



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 11:58
"It is the stupidity of those in power that has led to this."

The term works just as well then. I actually agree, our leave vote and this probably does come down as much to the nature of the campaigns run as "the stupidity of the people".

Overall, this seems like an initial reaction. What will be interesting is how, and who, the centre ground pick up on it and respond. I think you could say the rise of the SNP in Scotland was something of a forerunner.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:10
Quote:
Boldngrey
I repeat. Nationally classified documents on a private server is a threat to NATIONAL SECURITY so in terms of offence it is very high. One of the great Clinton claims was ‘No one is better qualified’. A casual attitude to classified information is a sign of unfitness for/incompetence in office.
For the FBI to dismiss it is frankly amazing. The latest many thousand documents were reviewed in a week which sounds highly irregular!

They do not need to go though them by hand, they are electronic remember software is pretty advanced nowadays, and I don't just mean looking for key words, modern software can look for meaning within paragraphs.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:10
Quote:
DanWiley
"A casual attitude to classified information is a sign of unfitness for/incompetence in office. "
Well, suppose that were proven, which is seems it isn't. I'd agree, it would be a reason not to vote for someone. It would not be a reason to campaign to "jail the @#$%&".

Holding classified information on a private server is like copying a secret document into an exercise book and locking it in a desk at home. That is what she did. She has said she was careless, but with her security clearance, should have known better.
It compromises security.

Compare the zeal of the FBI to prosecute Bradley(?) Manning, who got 35 years.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:25
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
woodpecker
What could this phenomenon be called, Stupidpower?

It is the stupidity of those in power that has led to this. Is it any wonder this has happened when we see MP's abusing expenses, PM's on £300,000 consultancy lectures, unaccountable Euro expenses etc

Are we really surprised when at the first opportunity the man in the street hits out!

And vote for a guy who is worth billions and pays no taxes!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:27
"Holding classified information on a private server is like copying a secret document into an exercise book and locking it in a desk at home."

No it isn't. That's at best a very vague analogy. The desk is probably more secure. But none of that is really the point. She is apparently the least popular of two of the most disliked candidates for who knows how long. You're saying that's down to her keeping some secret emails in the wrong place and "casual attitude". Really?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:28
"And vote for a guy who is worth billions and pays no taxes!"

Perhaps they voted for the American dream?

 
The Oilman
The Oilman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:39
2 significant elections in Europe next year, France and Germany. What price Marine La Pen now?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:40
Quote:
DanWiley
"And vote for a guy who is worth billions and pays no taxes!"
Perhaps they voted for the American dream?

The American dream is the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved. I'm not sure that the American dream really includes where your dad gives you millions of pounds to set up a company?

At least his mates were behind him such as former KKK leader David Duke who has said: 'We won it for Donald Trump'. (I see that Nige F is also saying that he is happy to 'pass over the mantle', which is nice of him)



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:43
The Americans seem to have a thing about when the numbers 9 and 11 occur in a calendar(Sm105)

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 12:54
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
The Americans seem to have a thing about when the numbers 9 and 11 occur in a calendar(Sm105)

Poor taste. Besides which I'm not sure they had much choice in relation to the first one.



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 13:08
Angela Merkel better be sitting up.......

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 13:10
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
woodpecker
What could this phenomenon be called, Stupidpower?

It is the stupidity of those in power that has led to this. Is it any wonder this has happened when we see MP's abusing expenses, PM's on £300,000 consultancy lectures, unaccountable Euro expenses etc

Are we really surprised when at the first opportunity the man in the street hits out!

And vote for a guy who is worth billions and pays no taxes!

Yes that is exactly the point! If anyone had engaged with those disenfranchised with the political elite they had a chance of winning. Its not about policy, it is a poke in the eye for BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 13:38
Quote:
The Oilman
2 significant elections in Europe next year, France and Germany. What price Marine La Pen now?

The French electoral system is designed to prevent that; but who knows?!



Stuart

Former ed.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 13:43
Trump doesn't believe that warming climate change is manmade.
He obviously believes women are good for two things only, and one is propping up their egos. (did you spot the report that he checked his wife's voting paper to see how she had voted!).
He is very good at spending other people's money - e.g. how many bankrupt companies has he in his portfolio of businesses over the past decades?
He has quite an interesting selection of fellow travellers and supporters e.g. KKK.

So.......................


What's not to like?(Sm59)



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:03
Quote:
Stuart Anderton
Quote:
The Oilman
2 significant elections in Europe next year, France and Germany. What price Marine La Pen now?

The French electoral system is designed to prevent that; but who knows?!

Alain Juppe will be French President next year. Described as centre right but his policies would resonate strongly with Blairites in this country.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:05
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Boldngrey
I repeat. Nationally classified documents on a private server is a threat to NATIONAL SECURITY so in terms of offence it is very high. One of the great Clinton claims was ‘No one is better qualified’. A casual attitude to classified information is a sign of unfitness for/incompetence in office.
For the FBI to dismiss it is frankly amazing. The latest many thousand documents were reviewed in a week which sounds highly irregular!

They do not need to go though them by hand, they are electronic remember software is pretty advanced nowadays, and I don't just mean looking for key words, modern software can look for meaning within paragraphs.

The details are described in

observer.com/2016/11/is-the-fbi-investigating-the-latest-clinton-revelations

The information was obviously mishandled.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:12
Quote:
DanWiley
"Holding classified information on a private server is like copying a secret document into an exercise book and locking it in a desk at home."
No it isn't. That's at best a very vague analogy. The desk is probably more secure. But none of that is really the point. She is apparently the least popular of two of the most disliked candidates for who knows how long. You're saying that's down to her keeping some secret emails in the wrong place and "casual attitude". Really?

No.

I am saying that treating classified information like that would render a serviceman or civil servant liable to prosecution.

The desk analogy is very accurate as my point is that a government server is protected by government security systems. A desk or private server is under the control of someone outside government.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:16
Quote:
shipwrecked
Yes that is exactly the point! If anyone had engaged with those disenfranchised with the political elite they had a chance of winning. Its not about policy, it is a poke in the eye for BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans.

Disenfranchisement misses the point in some respects because people who haven't voted for generations have been suddenly energised to vote.

To me, it seems what they are responding to is being told they are bad people for wanting something different.

Theres still a lot of response suggesting that Americans, Leave voters etc. are rascist, violent, misogynists... Yet those who engage most with their concerns - even if they engage badly - have won. People dont like foregone conclusions and theyre nof afraid, unlike the establishment, of being radical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 14:24 by Substitute.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:32
Headline of the day! [www.buchanobserver.co.uk]

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:34
I have no doubt that on your little island the idea of the FBI's role in Trump's victory does look silly malco

Whether or not there was a conspiracy I have no idea but until Comey's letter came out Clinton was over the hills and away in the polls - Trump's misogynist, racist statements were millstones around his neck sinking in the quicksand of one political gaff after another

Then suddenly with one break of the chain our superhero was freed of the millstone and presented with one big unmissable target

This 'anti-establishment' guff is just the political 'experts' straining for a 'psuedo-intellectual' rationale to salvage some drips of credibility from the wreckage of their@#$%&punditry and polling

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:34
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
shipwrecked
Yes that is exactly the point! If anyone had engaged with those disenfranchised with the political elite they had a chance of winning. Its not about policy, it is a poke in the eye for BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans.

Disenfranchisement misses the point in some respects because people who haven't voted for generations have been suddenly energised to vote.

To me, it seems what they are responding to is being told they are bad people for wanting something different.

Theres still a lot of response suggesting that Americans, Leave voters etc. are rascist, violent, misogynists... Yet those who engage most with their concerns - even if they engage badly - have won. People dont like foregone conclusions and theyre nof afraid, unlike the establishment, of being radical.

Perhaps the reason they were energised to vote was because they didn't feel represented by any of the politicians. Trump is a 'fresh skin' never been in public office so untainted and someone to align with.

There is never going to be just one reason though.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:38
Quote:
gaz59
I have no doubt that on your little island the idea of the FBI's role in Trump's victory does look silly malco
Whether or not there was a conspiracy I have no idea but until Comey's letter came out Clinton was over the hills and away in the polls - Trump's misogynist, racist statements were millstones around his neck sinking in the quicksand of one political gaff after another

Then suddenly with one break of the chain our superhero was freed of the millstone and presented with one big unmissable target

This 'anti-establishment' guff is just the political 'experts' straining for a 'psuedo-intellectual' rationale to salvage some drips of credibility from the wreckage of their@#$%&punditry and polling

Gaz, if there is one lesson everybody should learn from the last UK general election, the referendum and the US general election it is this.

Don't trust the pollsters. They are not in any way reliable. Trump has won by 71 seats. Republicans have regained Congress and Senate. This is a groundswell of grass roots momentum. It has nothing to do with the FBI.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:41
Quote:
shipwrecked

Perhaps the reason they were energised to vote was because they didn't feel represented by any of the politicians. Trump is a 'fresh skin' never been in public office so untainted and someone to align with.

There is never going to be just one reason though.

Agreed on both counts.

I just honestly hope politics - well, established politics - can move beyond the horrible moralistic position it currently holds and actually engages with the arguments.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:53
Stuart and Malco


Can you explain to me how Marine Le Pen will not be elected if she gets more votes.

I'm not saying I don't or do want her to be elected.......I'm just interested why you say what you both do?

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 14:59
Trump's election to office is as damning a critique of western politics as any, and I agree with Malco's sentiment about there being a disillusionment with the "Establishment" from the electorate. However, I just cannot see how the billionaire property tycoon isn't part of this clique.

Also, my response to this being resultant of centre left policies is that the Democratic Party isn't exactly left wing; there rally isn't a left wing per se in the States, just some more right than others. My main concern is that the rise of the right, and our exit from the EU, makes the world a much more dangerous place to be in, and I fear conflict on a grand scale may be closer than we've ever perceived for many decades.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 15:05
Quote:
@Hydor18
My main concern is that the rise of the right, and our exit from the EU, makes the world a much more dangerous place to be in, and I fear conflict on a grand scale may be closer than we've ever perceived for many decades.

Im curious... Why?

Also worth noting that in many ways this is not the rise of the Right. It's more the rise of Conservatism in Liberal Democracies (which isnt the same as nationalism).

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 15:18
"I am saying that treating classified information like that would render a serviceman or civil servant liable to prosecution. "

Your article says they wee NOT classified at the time.

"First it was revealed that Clinton repeatedly requested that her maid, Marina Santos, print out emails and documents that contained sensitive information. Several emails that Clinton asked Santos to print out were LATER deemed classified."

However, I don't disagree that she should be prosecuted if evidence of misdoing comes to light. I'm asking, and now I'm very specifically asking you, why this should make her such a figure of hate? For you that really makes her a candidate for the least popular candidate of all time?

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 15:39
I read somewhere, Times I think at the weekend, that there is a group of FBI agents who were so appalled that Ms Clinton was not arrested and prosecuted that they have been helping the Republicans........

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 15:45
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Stuart and Malco

Can you explain to me how Marine Le Pen will not be elected if she gets more votes.

I'm not saying I don't or do want her to be elected.......I'm just interested why you say what you both do?

The French system requires a two candidate run off. This intended to ensure that the winner actually gets over 50% of the vote.

If an "extremist" makes the run off, the mainstream parties will coalesce behind the other one in the run off.

It's not impossible of course, but 50% is a high barrier compared to, say, our system.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 15:51
Quote:
@Hydor18
Trump's election to office is as damning a critique of western politics as any, and I agree with Malco's sentiment about there being a disillusionment with the "Establishment" from the electorate. However, I just cannot see how the billionaire property tycoon isn't part of this clique.
Also, my response to this being resultant of centre left policies is that the Democratic Party isn't exactly left wing; there rally isn't a left wing per se in the States, just some more right than others. My main concern is that the rise of the right, and our exit from the EU, makes the world a much more dangerous place to be in, and I fear conflict on a grand scale may be closer than we've ever perceived for many decades.

Im not so sure about the second para. I was in a bar in NY last night talking to a couple of guys who voted for Trump. They said that they did it because Hillary would raise taxes on people like them, they earned US$60-70K, spend money she didn't have and focus on non working people. Much like working class people in the UK said about the Labour party in the last election.

I was quite surprised as Hilary and the democrats dont come across to me like socialists, maybe because the middle ground is more to the right, but it sounded very similar to the debate in the UK.

I spoke to a woman, who looked very well dressed/highly educated, she had voted democrat in the senate, but hadn't voted in the presidential election, as she didnt like Hilary. She was very shocked and upset that Trump was looking like he was going to win and severely regretted not voting.

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 16:56
To me Brexit and the Trump victory come from the same place. The stuff about racism and xenophobia are probably red herrings in most cases. Most of it comes from people in poorer neighbourhoods who've heard years of "things can only get better" and not seen anything reach their level. Its not so easy to be enlightened about immigration etc when you are desperately hoping to reach the top of the social housing waiting list and find a decent school for your kids, and don't want anyone else coming in and pushing those things further away.

Too often politics has been about "taking away from them to give to me" - its almost never taking away from me to help them. How many of the professionals who've been appalled by Brexit are at risk of competition in their jobs from Eastern European migrants? Probably very few, but those looking for a basic living wage job are probably very much at risk.

Both Brexit and Trump's rhetoric are about pulling up the drawbridges and claiming that if we just put ourselves first we'll be OK and everything will be better. It won't because the whole economic premise that everything can go on getting better infinitely is flawed. However we haven't yet got to the point where we are prepared to hear the message that the only option is a fairer way of sharing things out globally - so we are going to have to do it the hard way and discover that its the only long term option by failing in every other way.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 17:30
High Treason 1951

[www.youtube.com]

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 17:37
"How many of the professionals who've been appalled by Brexit are at risk of competition in their jobs from Eastern European migrants? "

I wouldn't say I'm at risk, but in my position, which I think classifies as your professional, we DO employ a lot of European immigrants. I'm in a room of about 20 people today and 8 of those come from outside the UK. So in some sense I am in competition with these immigrates.

For me the difference is that we as a company just wouldn't have the ability to do the job we do without them.

I'd say as an engineer wages have been pretty flat probably most of my career and compared to a generation ago have come down notably. That's not because of immigration, but because of the rise of qualified engineers in many countries. We compete with European companies, most of whom can undercut us due to labour costs, so my wage doesn't go up. What I'm saying is that they don't need top come here to to affect my wages, in fact I need them to come here just to carry on. That's possibly a distinction between some like myself and someone in a localised job. On the other hand, if I were working for a firm with world wide competition (instead of just European) the issue would even worse I suspect.

So, in industries like mine, but for the fact these immigrants will easily get visas, preventing their immigration far from creating jobs would actually remove them and, even if that weren't the case my wages wouldn't be improved as if they were we simply wouldn't be competitive.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 18:54
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
High Treason 1951
[www.youtube.com]

No cross posting please William.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:08
Quote:
DanWiley
"I am saying that treating classified information like that would render a serviceman or civil servant liable to prosecution. "
Your article says they wee NOT classified at the time.

"First it was revealed that Clinton repeatedly requested that her maid, Marina Santos, print out emails and documents that contained sensitive information. Several emails that Clinton asked Santos to print out were LATER deemed classified."

However, I don't disagree that she should be prosecuted if evidence of misdoing comes to light. I'm asking, and now I'm very specifically asking you, why this should make her such a figure of hate? For you that really makes her a candidate for the least popular candidate of all time?

If the documents were classified later it is just as bad. The fact is, a maid had regular access to sensitive/classified material.

Read on and you will see plausible suggestions that the FBI investigation was for some reason no more than cursory.

The significance is further explained in another article:

observer.com/2016/.../revolt-by-security-diplomats-define-hillary-as-the-weak-candid...21 Jun 2016

In this Austin Bay says:

‘But here’s the corrosive bottom line: U.S. national security will suffer severe self-inflicted damage. The moral insult to the men and women serving in America’s civilian and military security agencies will be even worse if the individual who so casually committed the initiating crime is elected president.’

Which supports my contention that a serviceman or civil servant would be charged and certainly lose their job for a similar misdemeanour.

Trump and Clinton were two terrible candidates. One of Clinton’s biggest problems was that she was not trusted. This suspicion is fed when a case affecting her is treated ‘inefficiently’ or ‘unconscientiously’, by such a normally uncompromising organisation as the FBI.

How seriously did people take it? Look at the popularity of the ridiculous ‘Lock her up’ chant.

Apologies for not being able to do links properly.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:31
Boldngrey, there were indiscretions obviously, but the FBI have compounded them by:

1) Reopening the investigation so close to the election
2) Resolving the re-opening in an ambiguous way.

Whilst Clinton should never had had those emails on a private server I am astounded that White House protocols allowed her to do so. Would they have been happy for her to use her own pager for the launch codes for the nuclear silos for example.

At least she had some experience of office, I hope the U.S. put some sort of system in place before January because our Donald has no idea of procedures as its all new to him. Otherwise I can foresee him ordering Pizza and inadvertently starting WW3.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:40
Sorry ed.

The effects of the stroke pain had sent me quite insane but I feel better now after haven fallen asleep.

By the way, the film High Treason is a quite superb cautionary tale.

Thank God for your forum.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:42
Shipwrecked

The investigation was not re-opened. It was a second case that came about as a result of investigations into Clinton’s aide(?).

But you are correct. It becomes suspicious when the second case is resolved so quickly.

No problems with Donald. He’s Putin’s mate and Russia will be USA’s friend, so we'll never need to worry about giving secrets away again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:54
Dry..as ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 22:00 by WilliamBlessing.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 21:58
So basically you don't know why she's is so disliked.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
09 November, 2016 22:22
This is an example of lack of trust - one of the many reasons being bandied about as to why she is so unpopular.

Do you know why?

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 03:35
God knows.

Battle of Waterloo

[en.wikipedia.org]

Rule Britannia - Last Night of the Proms 2009

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2016 04:05 by WilliamBlessing.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 07:24
Quote:
WestonDave
It won't because the whole economic premise that everything can go on getting better infinitely is flawed. However we haven't yet got to the point where we are prepared to hear the message that the only option is a fairer way of sharing things out globally...

I agreed with everything you said up to this point. No economic system that shares things globally will never deliver prosperity to anyone except those succesful in the system (good if your banker, bad if you are a Norwegian farm worker)

Nor will it have the social solidarity required to persuade people to part with their money to help others (and potentially themselves). Most people dont willingly fund thr NHS out of concern for alcoholics and drug takers...

If there isnt the social unity (be it on ethnic, national, religious, gender, status etc. terms) to persuade people to support their fellow man then social benefits will collapse or government has to resort to force. On a global scale only one of those would work.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 07:57
I wish I could do a link/cut and paste thing.

My son has sent me a chart/graph which I think is very revealing. It is for the period from 1998 to 2008, obviously would be better if it was to 2015.

Along the x axis it divides the World's population by income in 1998 starting with columns for the poorest people in the World moving to middles class people in Asia and China and then blue collar workers, mid income USA and Western developed countries then the top 5%, top 2% and then top 1%.

Starting with the poorest 5% their income in this period is up 20%, moving along the Asian Middle classes are up 70% there is then a big drop for US and Western Middle Class effectively back to nil and then top 2% - 5% up 30% and top 1% up 70%.

The source is Branko Milanovic (?)

I haven't explained it very well here but when you see it as a graph it sort of explains what everybody has been saying.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 08:48
malco you are fusing and confusing two distinct though related things into one simple theory

Yes of course recent evidence shows there is a massive problem with the credibility of polls but that is because they have been used as predictors of the outcome. Polls are and always have been a 'snapshot' picture of voting intentions

3 weeks before election day Trump's campaign was in danger of completely imploding - even some of his top team were disengaging from him

The polls at that point in time showed Clinton massively ahead - had the election taken place then we would have had a different President to the one today

But it didn't and events changed that course. The one big factor was the FBI investigation announcements and in particular Comey's letter a matter of days before the election

The polls started to narrow dramatically down to 2 - 3 points - well within error range and 'experts' began to talk about the possibility of a Trump victory and drawing comparisons with our Brexit vote

Of course no one is going to say "you know what that FBI statement has really made me change my mind", people will say it is because they don't trust her, or I didn't like her political past or those clintons are .. (whatever) or its change we need and thats why I went Trump

There was no hint or evidence of this so called 'anti-establishment' force until the result came out and everyone went 'panic-buying' in search of a theory that suited their position



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2016 13:50 by gaz59.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 09:06
Quote:
gaz59

There was no hint or evidence of this so called 'anti-establishment' force until the result came out and everyone went 'panic-buying' in search of a theory that suited their position

I don't agree with this bit. The whole Trump campaign was based on the idea of change and anti-establishment. Over and over again the people on the street were quoted as saying that they wanted a change from old world politics and politicians.

[www.washingtontimes.com]

On the BBC survey yesterday when they broke down the electoral demographics it said that 86% of the people surveyed thought that Trump would be likely to bring change to the system (unlike Hillary 6% I think).



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 09:16
"I wish I could do a link/cut and paste thing. "

Click the URL of the link from your browser and select the whole URL and copy. Click anywhere in the text box and paste. That's all you have to do!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2016 10:16 by CoochieCoo.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 09:23
Quote:
BathMatt53

I don't agree with this bit. The whole Trump campaign was based on the idea of change and anti-establishment. Over and over again the people on the street were quoted as saying that they wanted a change from old world politics and politicians.

[www.washingtontimes.com]

On the BBC survey yesterday when they broke down the electoral demographics it said that 86% of the people surveyed thought that Trump would be likely to bring change to the system (unlike Hillary 6% I think).

In the exit poll more Americans were concerned by Trumps sexual harassment revelations than Clinton's email revelation. They may have reinforced existing prejudices, which may explain a bigger impact on Clinton, but the prejudices had to be there before.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 10:07
Quote:
CoochieCoo
"I wish I could do a link/cut and paste thing. "
Clock the URL of the link from your browser and select the whole URL and copy. Click anywhere in the text box and paste. That's all you have to do!


TVM, Cricket Club.


Not of the digital age, but will give it a try.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 10:45
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I wish I could do a link/cut and paste thing.
My son has sent me a chart/graph which I think is very revealing. It is for the period from 1998 to 2008, obviously would be better if it was to 2015.

Along the x axis it divides the World's population by income in 1998 starting with columns for the poorest people in the World moving to middles class people in Asia and China and then blue collar workers, mid income USA and Western developed countries then the top 5%, top 2% and then top 1%.

Starting with the poorest 5% their income in this period is up 20%, moving along the Asian Middle classes are up 70% there is then a big drop for US and Western Middle Class effectively back to nil and then top 2% - 5% up 30% and top 1% up 70%.

The source is Branko Milanovic (?)

I haven't explained it very well here but when you see it as a graph it sort of explains what everybody has been saying.

Would it be something like this?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WHHBuRSDKUo/Urmkati83II/AAAAAAAADNY/RgI-GO-SE8I/s1600/income+.dist.jpg

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