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MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 10:47
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I wish I could do a link/cut and paste thing.
Is it this one?
https://milescorak.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/branko-milanovice-global-inequality-elephant-curve.png?w=497&h=375

I also quite like this one, on voter turnout in US elections; which implies* that this wasn't so much a vote for Trump / GOP; as it was a failure to connect by Hilary / DNC:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161109/35d0d80e83eee33dfbf4c938ecdef959.jpg

And then there's this one, on the percentage of the population of the USA who voted for the eventual winner:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/U.S._Vote_for_President_as_Population_Share.jpg/500px-U.S._Vote_for_President_as_Population_Share.jpg
This one doesn't include the 2016 election (yet); but it's back down around 20%**; which would be its lowest in a century (before women were allowed a vote)

*Lies, damned lies etc
** I will go ahead and assume that I'm using different figures to the author of that graph; maybe they're only including those of voting age, or citizens rather than population, or something.

ETA: 25.5% of eligible voters voted for Trump - bear in mind that in the USA you're inelgible if you live in the wrong place, have been imprisoned, or don't have a photo ID; so the number of eligible voters is much lower than the number of US citizens of voting age (by a good 30+ Million).



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2016 11:03 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 11:00
Truncated y-axis graphs are evil.

But yes, it seems that Trump will have won with fewer votes than the last two Republican candidates lost with. Hillary really just struggled to get the vote out. There's been suppression of voting as well, particularly with the supreme court on the Voting Rights Act, and that second e-mail investigation has definitely harmed her. Either way, 6 million people who voted for Obama didn't turn out for her. There's the election.

Looks like voter turn out is down near 50% which is pretty damning.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 11:45
Not as bad as inverted ones:

[www.livescience.com]

 
Lee Bideaux
Armchair Fan (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 12:21
Well, in my local last night I had a chat with 'Atheist Pro-Abortion Texan for Trump' - seemed like a nice bloke and basically doesn't fit neatly on any graph.



_____________________________________________________

I like turtles.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 12:24
Quote:
Armchair Fan
Well, in my local last night I had a chat with 'Atheist Pro-Abortion Texan for Trump' - seemed like a nice bloke and basically doesn't fit neatly on any graph.
depends if he's white.
Though non-truncatd graphs always have room for outliers.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 12:58
Quote:
DanWiley
"I am saying that treating classified information like that would render a serviceman or civil servant liable to prosecution. "
Your article says they wee NOT classified at the time.

"First it was revealed that Clinton repeatedly requested that her maid, Marina Santos, print out emails and documents that contained sensitive information. Several emails that Clinton asked Santos to print out were LATER deemed classified."

However, I don't disagree that she should be prosecuted if evidence of misdoing comes to light. I'm asking, and now I'm very specifically asking you, why this should make her such a figure of hate? For you that really makes her a candidate for the least popular candidate of all time?

Why are the Clintons widely despised in much of America? Let me help you with that.

Shortly after Bill became President they sacked the White House travel staff, who had been doing the job for years, and appointed a private company to do it in return for several million a year. The private company they appointed was owned by their cousins.

Have you forgotten the Whitewater scandal [en.wikipedia.org].

Several of their close associates were jailed for financial impropriety during Bill's presidency and despite being implicated they managed to avoid what many people considered due investigation.

Hillary was subpoenaed to give evidence, one of their advisors died mysteriously and Bill's numerous affairs were exposed.

Have you heard of Juanita Broaddrick? [en.wikipedia.org]

Raped by Bill, silenced by Hillary. Or Paula Jones? Or Gennifer Flowers? Or...

They set up the Clinton Foundation and are widely perceived to have syphoned very large sums of money to themselves through it illegally. Including, apparently, $3 million to pay for Chelsea's wedding.

In the lead up to Hillary's campaign she came under severe criticism for an attack in Benghazi that killed four Americans - including the ambassador to Libya. As Secretary of State she is believed to have intelligene that warned about the attack but failed to pass it on.

They are known as the "Learjet Democrats" - demanding high taxation and austerity for others while living a life of excess themsleves. What we might call champagne socialists here, on a scale no British politician could aspire to.

Despite patently having a destroyed marriage they reappeared ahead of the 2008 primaries and tried to pretend that they were a devoted couple again. She was blown out of the water by Obama, who said a lot of very uncomplimentary things about her. People then assumed that they wouldn't be confronted with her again.

Then she reappeared again for the Primaries for this election and she got through essentially due to the desperately poor standard of other candidates. Once again trying to persuade Americans who know the full gruesome details that she and Bill are some wholesome devoted couple again.

You have to admire her brass neck if nothing else.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if she didn't have another go in four years.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 14:23
You're Welcome Sadie Saxton


[www.youtube.com]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 14:25
Nigel Farage is excited by a Donald Trump Presidency

[www.youtube.com]

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 14:31
Thanks for the graphs they are the correct ones.

Thanks Mr CC I'll give it a go at some point.......not confident.


On a different note I have been sent an analysis of the political events of note in the EU in the next 14 months.........it looks like there are plenty of potential banana skins for the whole edifice to slip up on!

Thank goodness we are out.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 14:32
Quote:
DanWiley
Not as bad as inverted ones:
[www.livescience.com]

Oh my God, when I realised what that was I threw up in my mouth a little.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 15:29
Despite patently having a destroyed marriage they reappeared ahead of the 2008 primaries and tried to pretend that they were a devoted couple again. She was blown out of the water by Obama, who said a lot of very uncomplimentary things about her. People then assumed that they wouldn't be confronted with her again.

Then she was Secretary of State in the Obama Administration from 2009 to 2013,


Then she reappeared again for the Primaries for this election and she got through essentially due to the desperately poor standard of other candidates. Once again trying to persuade Americans who know the full gruesome details that she and Bill are some wholesome devoted couple again.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 15:34
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
Nigel Farage is excited by a Donald Trump Presidency
[www.youtube.com]

For heavens sake William enter properly into the discussion or stay away.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 15:41
Quote:
woodpecker
Despite patently having a destroyed marriage they reappeared ahead of the 2008 primaries and tried to pretend that they were a devoted couple again. She was blown out of the water by Obama, who said a lot of very uncomplimentary things about her. People then assumed that they wouldn't be confronted with her again.
Then she was Secretary of State in the Obama Administration from 2009 to 2013,


Then she reappeared again for the Primaries for this election and she got through essentially due to the desperately poor standard of other candidates. Once again trying to persuade Americans who know the full gruesome details that she and Bill are some wholesome devoted couple again.

[www.youtube.com]

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2016 15:42 by malco.

 
bcd1981
bcd1981 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 20:19
To put the hatred of Hillary into context just consider what would have happened if The Donald hadn't spent most of his time insulting minorities, immigrants and women.

He would have potentially won a landslide.

Maybe...............

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
10 November, 2016 20:37
When Trump insulted those people there were many who agreed to some extent but had previously been unable to say so because of the political correctness forced on them by the ruling Clintonesque elite.

Maybe it won him silent votes and reinforced the Hate-Hillary feelings.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
11 November, 2016 01:40
As an insight into the historic nature of corruption and violence within American society, I can offer you this film. And this is on topic of "Overseas Politics" .


Anthony Quinn - The Naked Street. film 1955

[www.youtube.com]

Discuss remembering to answer the question please

Turn off the lights, sit back and enjoy this if enjoy is the right word.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
11 November, 2016 10:23
After hearing what Trump said about his meeting with Obama I'm starting to like him a bit, I think he's funny.

Having said that I wouldn't put him in charge of anything, let alone America

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
11 November, 2016 15:09
oops - wrong button, sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2016 15:11 by fat lock.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
11 November, 2016 17:26
Analysis of parallels between Brexit and Trump

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
11 November, 2016 21:07
Quote:
woodpecker
Analysis of parallels between Brexit and Trump
[www.bbc.co.uk]

A majority of white, college-educated males voted for Trump (according to the same exit poll). Their female counterparts had a tiny majority for Clinton.

Trump was miles behind in minority college-educated males and females.

So while a majority of educated people voted for Clinton - a vote for Trump wasnt the reserve of the srupid.

Similarly for Brexit - the largest graduate populace is in London. If you take out the London boroughs and the educational correlation is less-pronounced.

This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know to vote better and should not be beholden to the passions of the stupid.

If they want to underestimate the movements then a sure way to do that is to presume they are anti-intellectual instead of anti-the-establishment-intellects.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 02:36
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
woodpecker
Analysis of parallels between Brexit and Trump
[www.bbc.co.uk]

A majority of white, college-educated males voted for Trump (according to the same exit poll). Their female counterparts had a tiny majority for Clinton.

Trump was miles behind in minority college-educated males and females.

So while a majority of educated people voted for Clinton - a vote for Trump wasn't the reserve of the stupid.

Similarly, for Brexit - the largest graduate populace is in London. If you take out the London boroughs the educational correlation is less pronounced.

This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know how to vote better and should not be beholden to the passions of the stupid.

If they want to underestimate the movements then a sure way to do that is to presume they are anti-intellectual instead of anti-the-establishment-intellects.

Could you simplify your conclusion for me, please? You've lost me there young man. Just what are you saying?

Politics and the English Language

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2016 02:47 by WilliamBlessing.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 06:58
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
woodpecker
Analysis of parallels between Brexit and Trump
[www.bbc.co.uk]

A majority of white, college-educated males voted for Trump (according to the same exit poll). Their female counterparts had a tiny majority for Clinton.

Trump was miles behind in minority college-educated males and females.

So while a majority of educated people voted for Clinton - a vote for Trump wasn't the reserve of the stupid.

Similarly, for Brexit - the largest graduate populace is in London. If you take out the London boroughs the educational correlation is less pronounced.

This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know how to vote better and should not be beholden to the passions of the stupid.

If they want to underestimate the movements then a sure way to do that is to presume they are anti-intellectual instead of anti-the-establishment-intellects.

Could you simplify your conclusion for me, please? You've lost me there young man. Just what are you saying?

Politics and the English Language

I agree. That had my head spinning with confusion!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2016 07:03 by Bath Hammer.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 08:55
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
woodpecker
Analysis of parallels between Brexit and Trump
[www.bbc.co.uk]

A majority of white, college-educated males voted for Trump (according to the same exit poll). Their female counterparts had a tiny majority for Clinton.

Trump was miles behind in minority college-educated males and females.

So while a majority of educated people voted for Clinton - a vote for Trump wasn't the reserve of the stupid.

Similarly, for Brexit - the largest graduate populace is in London. If you take out the London boroughs the educational correlation is less pronounced.

This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know how to vote better and should not be beholden to the passions of the stupid.

If they want to underestimate the movements then a sure way to do that is to presume they are anti-intellectual instead of anti-the-establishment-intellects.

Could you simplify your conclusion for me, please? You've lost me there young man. Just what are you saying?

Politics and the English Language

I agree. That had my head spinning with confusion!
I was horrified you were just about to issue me with an err. complaint about err...ummm...Nice day today'innit?

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 09:03
This quote he who quote he who quothe he who quothe he system doesn't help does it my nice new friend, BH.

I think Orwell was a remarkable man.

[williamblessing.blogspot.co.uk]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 09:28
"This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know how to vote better."

If I were editing this piece I would do so, as above.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 10:24
Quote:
WilliamBlessing
"This focus on education seems all wrong - especially the implicit assumption that the educated know how to vote better."
If I were editing this piece I would do so, as above.

You've lost me William...

If you want it in non-emotional terms:

The establishment are (mostly) highly educated.
The vote was against the establishment.

However, it does not follow that:
The vote was against the highly educated.

However this often is the conclusion drawn. Hence the appeal of statistics that demonstrate an educational divide. Look at them more closely though and they are much less convincing.

My interest is why we are even so focussed on the educational profile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2016 10:25 by Substitute.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
12 November, 2016 12:51
Lost in Space


[en.wikipedia.org]

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 November, 2016 17:53
p.s. whilst you are working that one out, could you also please come up with a brilliant idea on how to remove Farage from British Politics once and for all. Knew it was too good to be true when he swore he was not going to be involved post-Brexit? He is like some sort of Joker in a recurring nightmare!

Hard to believe that Trump takes him seriously, although they do have a lot in common!



Matt Garvey - one to add to my List of Forward Talented Adoptees since 2003/4!

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 November, 2016 19:18
At least we will no longer be trapped in the living nightmare that is the EU Annie thanks to Nigel Farage.

Farage: 'Real opportunity' for UK business with Donald Trump

[www.bbc.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/11/2016 19:23 by WilliamBlessing.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
13 November, 2016 20:27
Possibly William but you know the saying about frying pan and fire

Substitute I think WB's point is simply about the difference between being educated and being intelligent

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 01:47
Of course, I pay tribute to the European Union and we are free to leave and we will do.

Politics is a dirty game but one that must be played.

One can change one's mind. That is what is called Democracy.


Democracy

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2016 02:49 by WilliamBlessing.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 02:42
Politics and the English Language

[en.wikipedia.org]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 02:51
Or using Malco's amusing link.


George Formby - On The Beat


[www.youtube.com]

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 08:00
I think you will find that other forms of society such as autocracy that are pretty good at getting people to change their minds - nothing special about democracy there William

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 09:22
We mustn't take things too seriously..............

[www.youtube.com]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 09:26
There was a democratic referendum where the Govt & opposition parties all advocated we remain. Notwithstanding the tremendous pressure exerted including expert advice of every type the people voted to leave. Okay, there were a few suspect promises thrown into the mix by the leave side but they were strongly rejected by the powerful Remain lobbies.There was every reason & incentive for the public to vote for Remain but they didn't. You can argue, I think without any conviction whatsoever, that many of these Leavers wanted to stay in the Single Market, have free movement & be under the rule of the European courts but that makes no sense whatsoever. I as a Remain voter & one who has concerns about leaving totally accept the will of the people expressed democratically, not autocratically. Why can't everyone else do so that we can get on with it???

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 11:06
Most of us do just 'suck it up'! (Muttering under ones breath - "Careful what you wish for").



Matt Garvey - one to add to my List of Forward Talented Adoptees since 2003/4!

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 11:24
Quote:
Bath Hammer
There was a democratic referendum where the Govt & opposition parties all advocated we remain. Notwithstanding the tremendous pressure exerted including expert advice of every type the people voted to leave. Okay, there were a few suspect promises thrown into the mix by the leave side but they were strongly rejected by the powerful Remain lobbies.There was every reason & incentive for the public to vote for Remain but they didn't. You can argue, I think without any conviction whatsoever, that many of these Leavers wanted to stay in the Single Market, have free movement & be under the rule of the European courts but that makes no sense whatsoever. I as a Remain voter & one who has concerns about leaving totally accept the will of the people expressed democratically, not autocratically. Why can't everyone else do so that we can get on with it???

It would be interesting to see the result of a re-vote on Brexit now, 5 months on. I doubt the result would be as close, and I also doubt the result would be the same. Of course I could be wrong!

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 11:33
Just the opposite.

The more those ‘in power’ question the result and try to modify it, the more it reinforces the view that those people will not listen.

It will harden resolve.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 11:44
That interesting Dorset Boy.......as I read your post I was thinking I wonder how much more emphatic it would be now to Leave!........and then I got to your conclusion.

Given the absence of the four horses of Apocalypse, which many "experts", Carney, Osborne, Lagarde said would arrive the next day after the vote if the electorate were stupid enough to vote out.......maybe more people would be rather more heartened to vote Leave.

The young people, the snowflake generation (great new monicker that I have just started to hear and see in print) for all their wailing on the 24th and 25th still won't get off their a****. Also in time they might hear about how the EU condones/encourages/enforces policies leading to mass unemployment amongst their peer group in Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal and in fact have today said that more cutbacks are needed in these countries!

There is a tidal wave going through World politics and the next demonstration of this will be the Italian Referendum followed by the Austrian vote for the Presidency.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 12:07
I would think the the result of a second referendum would be different, it would depend on the question of course, but different regardless. I don't think you'd get the same vote from regions, Wales, Cornwall etc. I think you'd get a bigger vote from London.

You wouldn't have Boris being Boris. I think some of the leave leadership have been somewhat exposed as not having a clue since (by not having a clue).

I think there was something of an anti-establishment vote from people who weren't THAT fussed one way or another, they'd be hard to get out a second time. Overall the zeitgeist that help the leave vote wouldn't exist, whether another could be created would be interesting, but I don't see who would do it?

On the other hand, there was some complacency from remain, I don't think they ever really thought they'd lose. Labour were appallingly vague, there COULD be better leadership from them.

Taking all that into account THEN you'd have to consider the question. If it's out, out, out (Malco's world: no market, no movement, no payments, no laws), leave would lose many voters (or at least fail to get them out). I don't think that would be close. I think the closest would be if the suggested outcome where "in the market, meaning we need the legislation and to pay in, but we get some control over immigration." That would be closer.


I don't think there should be another referendum by the way.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 12:16
It would be impossible to frame such a referendum question as there would be too many shades of grey.

Its got to be in or out and let the Govt get the best deal if it's out.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 12:27
I agree with BFJ that there is a groundswell of opinion in the western world against the elite - the populus have seen the rich get significantly richer over the last 20 years and seen the political elite benefit too, which the 'ordinary man' hasn't seen anywhere near that benefit and often have seen no improvement to their standard of living.

I also believe that in Europe the populus want freedom of movement and a free trade area, but do not want a super state, and are now more willing to express this to the political and eurocrat elite.

Finally, were there to ever be a re-run of the Brexit vote in the UK, the exiteers would have to explain in advance what out actually meant, and have plans in place accordingly. This would cause then massive problems IMHO as they would split between the hard and soft exiteers, and the UK population would be more savy second time round.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 12:28
We who were young in 1969, I was 21, went through it and for me it was good times, bad very bad times before I retreated to the security of the family home, a job in the DHSS, total abstinence from everything and at last relief.

But somehow we or I survived.

This concert reminds me it was for me great music.

To the young, I say live it. It's your chance now.

God bless you all.

Blind faith in Hyde Park 1969

[www.youtube.com]

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 12:35
I find condemning a generation of young people as 'snowflakes' pretty distasteful, coming from a generation who have saddled them with massive amounts of student debt, global warming impacts on their environment and who have pulled up the housing and employment ladder behind them.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 13:13
I agree Hasta
Snowflake is quite insulting to the young and reflects badly on those who choose to use it.
I feel, sadly, this is another example of the division and insults that we will see more of based on Race, Age, Gender, Religion.
Friends with more experience than me were saying how the rise of nationalistic 'far right' parties in Europe is starting to get to potentially worrying levels - ie enough to start to threaten the stability of the political fabric that has delivered peace for over 50 years.

I have the feeling we are at the start of great changes over the next 20 years - many of which are quite unforeseen yet.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 13:21
Slightly more amusing:

http://www.townsvillemagpie.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/clinton-pardon.jpeg

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 13:34
Given that 6 months on we aren't a jot clearer on where this is going to end up, what would be the point of another referendum?

Maybe some older people have died, maybe some younger people would make the effort to vote..I really couldn't stand another one, all that complete nonsense again.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 14:14
I don't think anyone is suggesting another referendum woodyp!

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 14:39
Hasta and Fat Lock

As ever it depends in what context this new phrase, Snowflake is used......

I have never seen or heard of groups of people questioning a democratic decision in my life until now......have you?? Protests after the Referendum vote and the American elections have caused just such a reaction. Its a democratic process instead of bursting into tears and saying on Facebook that its not fair and its not what they wanted they need to get out and persuade people as to the merits of their arguments and try and influence future results.

"Saddling" a generation with student debt.......Whilst I have been vociferously against student fees in case one talented person living with their single mum above a chip shop in Port Talbot putting 50p in the electricity meter cannot (reasonably) contemplate say £50,000 of debt and consequently does not go to tertiary education (real example) I have trouble reconciling that with a seventeen year old taken on to sweep up in a warehouse whose taxes are utilised to pay for "free" tertiary education........this education will not only be extremely enjoyable (some people perhaps enjoy it a bit too much) and enhancing their future earning prospects.

"Pulling up the housing ladder behind them".......how as a matter of interest have "our" generation done that? You might say that if we had a population of say 60m instead of 65m then demand for housing would be less with consequent impact on rentals and lower ownership demand. The British obsession with house ownership has been reviewed by numerous groups who have generally concluded that the amount of money we spend on housing is very bad for the economy and that we should have a much higher level of rental. I for one blame the massive distortion of no capital gains on the disposal of houses which I think should be scrapped.

Climate change I agree with you 100% but perhaps it isn't so much us as the people for 250 years and around the Globe. I also think that it is really only "our" generation who have become aware of the connection and we, to an extent, are trying to do something about it.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 14:54
Protests:
You've never seen people protesting democratic results? Did you miss the 80s? I'd also say most of the protests, particularly in the US, seem to be about the misogyny, racism and anti-semitism of the winning candidate. You didn't see people complaining about it on Facebook previously because Facebook didn't exist then.

Education:
a) The country benefits from having an educated populace.
b) The 'warehouse sweep' is not, I imagine, paying a lot of tax.
c) The people who implemented these fees all benefited from free tertiary education themselves.
This isn't to say that University education is right for everybody.

Housing:
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/house-price-to-earnings-ratio-600x536.png
House prices have raced northwards faster than wages. This could be helped by cutting by-to-let and/or as you say an estate tax.

Climate Change:
'our' generation is the first to become aware of it and has, by and large, been fundamentally selfish and slow moving in doing anything about it.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 14:59
"there is a groundswell of opinion in the western world against the elite - the populus have seen the rich get significantly richer over the last 20 years"

Quite how voting for a hereditary multi-billionaire constitutes a protest against the elite, I'm struggling to see.

"I have never seen or heard of groups of people questioning a democratic decision in my life until now......have you?"

I think the protests aren't really much to do with questioning the results, but questioning the liars and the lies that were told to procure those results.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 15:20
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Hasta and Fat Lock
As ever it depends in what context this new phrase, Snowflake is used......

Could you educate me how this word can be used to describe a generation in a positive way?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 15:25
"Your fingerprints are just like snowflakes. They're both very pretty."

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 15:56
I sit corrected.

I'd assumed a snowflake had some reference to short lived nature of pretty things being a disparaging comment on the young.
Having googled it it's quite different.
Wikipedia suggests:
'Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a term that refers to young people, typically university or college students, who seek to avoid emotionally charged topics or dissenting ideas and opinions. '

Quite what that means to this debate will 'depend on context' I dare say!

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 15:59
Opti - Trump wasn't SEEN to be part of the establishment by the average american, even though he clearly is part of the privileged elite having been given a huge fortune by his father which he has turned into just a large fortune!!!
However maybe they could relate to him more than to Hilary who is seen in the US as very corrupt.
Two awful choices IMO.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 16:00
"Your fingerprints are just like snowflakes. They're both very pretty."

..and unique.


Generation Snowflake

[en.wikipedia.org]



Snowflake

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2016 16:04 by WilliamBlessing.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 16:30
Quote:
Boldngrey
It would be impossible to frame such a referendum question as there would be too many shades of grey.
Its got to be in or out and let the Govt get the best deal if it's out.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. This decision has so many complexities that a simple yes/no is not possible. I voted remain of course but I am against a second referendum, our parliament is sovereign and capable of making a decision and as I keep on saying get on with it!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 16:39
The government has rejected the suggestion that Nigel Farage could act as a go between between the British Government and Trump.

Who ever thought that the British government wouldn't be able to deal with the American president unless Nigel Farage was involved and what sort of mind altering drugs have they been imbibing?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 16:40
I'm pretty sure it was Nigel Farage who thought that. Maybe Rupert Murdoch too.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 17:34
Hasta

I am aware of multiple protests.......I just haven't seen them the day after a nationwide democratic poll about the result of the poll before, or is there part of the 1980's that I missed?

How do you think we should finance tertiary education? I am very unconvinced about the current system given that the Treasury consider that they are only going to recover some 30% of the loans anyway. However I suppose the other way of saying that is that 70% will be going for free......and will not therefore be "saddled by debt"

If we cut the buy to let market, not terribly sure how you could do that anyway......where do the people who rent go and live? Or are you saying that if you deter buy to let then house prices will drop and the people living in rental properties will be able to afford them.....?

The other view is that the steps taken by George Osborne a year ago to increase Stamp Duty on transactions and his actions on the Buy to Let market have only made matters worse whilst raising less tax for the Treasury! Interesting that Cherie Blair just acted for a group of Buy to Let owners who were saying that Osborne's changes were no fair and equitable.

I am not suggesting an estate tax (we don't in my view need any more of those) but that like any other asset a gain made on the disposal of a property would be subject to capital gains tax.


Fat Lock

Sorry not writing clearly enough........this is a phrase I have seen now in about four different papers Times/Telegraph/Independent and Sun.

You are right it is not, when I have seen it been used in a complimentary manner. It has also not been used in respect of everyone of a generation. The type of extreme item I saw was a report of people complaining about the Referendum result but not having voted themselves or even that they voted on some poll on Facebook (and presumably thought that counted) or that they did not register to vote. All of which I am sure we would all consider pretty pathetic!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 17:46
"How do you think we should finance tertiary education? "

Just don't consider it any different. Give everyone free access to education at all levels. It's such an obvious thing for a country that has pride in itself to do that I'm always surprised people object so much.

"I am very unconvinced about the current system given that the Treasury consider "that they are only going to recover some 30% of the loans anyway. However I suppose the other way of saying that is that 70% will be going for free......and will not therefore be "saddled by debt"

Can you find something to support that? I don't believe that 70% of the last generation of loan payers (who have been finishing paying back over the last few years and continue to do so) haven't paid the money back and I don't see that changing with increased fees and loans. I guess they might mean that given the interest rates those people have paid it back they've lost out a fair amount compared to a commercial loan, but I really don't think education should be something a load company makes money out of.

If you must charge at higher level (again why?) do it through a graduate tax so its fair. That way companies that want graduates pay. People who do degrees in order to enrich themselves don't. We should be proud we're a country that promotes people to study philosophy.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 18:24
I agree Dan - we should proudly encourage the study of Literature, Art etc - subjects that enrich society without necessarily improving GDP.
Reminds of one of my favourite supposed Churchill quotes in WW2. When it was proposed the spending on the arts should be stopped to free up money for the War Effort he replied - 'Then what are we fighting for?'

WRT student loans I'm not too worried for low paid academics - you only pay back 9% of earnings over 21K - so if you do end up in a low paid job you pay very little back.
It's more unfair for the relatively high earners who may pay it all back since the interest is criminally high - RPI +3% - currently 4.6%.
That's outrageous in my view.
Base Rate + 2% would seem fairer in my mind.
If you graduate with 45K debt and earn £30K - an above average graduate salary - you'd pay back £810 in the first year but the interest would add on over £2K.
The scheme isn't designed to work!

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 19:27
You only pay 4.6% if you earn over £41k (after the first year, not sure what that's about!). That is very high, but if you earn over £40k you probably have the credit rating to take out a cheaper commercial loan to replace it.

I'm with Dan, tuition should be free. I got almost 5 years at two institutions paid for in full.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 19:36
Quote:
Stuart Anderton
You only pay 4.6% if you earn over £41k (after the first year, not sure what that's about!). That is very high, but if you earn over £40k you probably have the credit rating to take out a cheaper commercial loan to replace it.
I'm with Dan, tuition should be free. I got almost 5 years at two institutions paid for in full.

How can it possibly be "free"?

Someone, somewhere has got to pay for it. If you want further education you should pay for it yourself. If your further education isn't going to lead to enough of a vocation that it won't cover the cost of training for it then it isn't worth studying for. Why should the taxpayer fund three year junkets for students to study useless subjects that don't result in any benefit for either the student themselves or the wider population?

I would back education free at the point of delivery for students to study for things that are specifically needed, like key positions in the medical and healthcare professions, but only on a contractual understanding that the students go on to work in those professions in the UK for a set period of time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2016 19:38 by malco.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 20:10
"If you want further education you should pay for it yourself."

Why stop at further education?

"Why should the taxpayer fund three year junkets for students to study useless subjects that don't result in any benefit for either the student themselves or the wider population? "

So if say they were free (and we all know what Stuart means by that) for subjects we need, you'd be OK with that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2016 20:28 by DanWiley.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 20:18
Lower the school leaving age to 16 again and the many that leave and start work will be paying taxes for the others education!

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 20:25
Oh Come on
You've missed out national service and capital punishment
You're slipping Malco - that column in the Daily Wail demands ever more reactive traditional views
Oh yes - now were leaving the EU can we ditch the metric system and return to imperial measures and pre decimal currency - I'm sure you've got some florins you need to use.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 20:29
Quote:
fat lock
Oh Come on
You've missed out national service and capital punishment
You're slipping Malco - that column in the Daily Wail demands ever more reactive traditional views
Oh yes - now were leaving the EU can we ditch the metric system and return to imperial measures and pre decimal currency - I'm sure you've got some florins you need to use.


Send them up chimneys, that's what I say.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 21:34
When I went to university, I believe 5% of school leavers went, it was free, now its 50%...

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 22:01
We're paying for it up front from taxation already. The difference would be in when/if if gets paid back. Those doing degrees so useless they can't get a job Malco, don't pay it back - so ironically it's the exact opposite of what your suggesting. Time wasters get it free, doctors and architects pay.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
14 November, 2016 22:18
Quote:
woodpecker
When I went to university, I believe 5% of school leavers went, it was free, now its 50%...

I imagine universities as the crutch to cover the decline of the skilled labourer.

Now they either enter a traditional graduate career (and pay, as Stuart pointed out) or get a partially subsidised piece of paper to help them compete when they enter the competitive, unskilled service labour market.

I think it's a balm for the nations psyche as much as it os a subsided three year junket for the student.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 07:53
Or it could be a much needed investment in our country. It's not like we have a particularly high percentage of people going university compared to other developed nations.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 08:06
Quote:
DanWiley
Or it could be a much needed investment in our country. It's not like we have a particularly high percentage of people going university compared to other developed nations.

Percentage of people in higher education is no measure of return on investment.

If they are using their degrees to enter competitve, unskilled markets then the return on investment will be poor.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 08:31
We are in serious danger of turning the world into one big accountancy spreadsheet

How do you measure the return on investment for the cultural enrichment and diversity from many of the Arts courses in Universities and Colleges?

A far lower % of these courses will lead to 'proper' jobs

BTW that 5% woodpecker would have excluded polytechnics, most of which are now classed as universities

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 08:40
"We are in serious danger of turning the world into one big accountancy spreadsheet" gas59 good idea.

[williamblessing.blogspot.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 09:00
Quote:
annie blackthorn
p.s. whilst you are working that one out, could you also please come up with a brilliant idea on how to remove Farage from British Politics once and for all. Knew it was too good to be true when he swore he was not going to be involved post-Brexit? He is like some sort of Joker in a recurring nightmare!
Hard to believe that Trump takes him seriously, although they do have a lot in common!

Give him some Trump medecine: Appoint a 'special investigator' and lock him up for misappropriating EU funds as an MEP.

Hard to beleive Trump takes a lot of people seriously: the KKK, the NRA, the Creationists, climate change deniers, Birthers, etc. etc.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 09:08
Quote:
Dorset Boy
I don't think anyone is suggesting another referendum woodyp!

Think you'll find they are: The SNP and LDP want a Yes (leave)/ No (stay in) referendum on the actual terms of Brexit once they are negotiated.

This seems reasonable to me as people would actually know what they are voting for this time (as opposed to what they were voting against last time).

The Brexiters will never let it happen though: We've had our one dose of democracy. We won't be getting another!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 10:36
"Percentage of people in higher education is no measure of return on investment. "

Good idea, let's not get hung up on it. I think everyone should be given the chance to go to uni based on merit, money should not be a consideration, that's going to get closest to best utilising our talent. How you tune the number of places compared to the required number of graduates and factoring in the benefits of uni that are not directly vocational and the idea that we should invest in the education in pure arts, philosophy etc because that in itself enriches us as a nation, is an interesting question but of secondary importance.

I'd be surprised if people questioned that we do need to invest in higher education? Malco suggested we're a nation of great engineers (indeed scientists and many other fields), we are, but they require education. As a country we benefit from this, so why don't we invest as a country?

I don't really understand why people are happy to invest in education up to 18, then as soon as they are over 18 make it expensive? Or aren't you? Do you think all education should be paid for?

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 11:18
As the person who posed the question in the beginning I am pleased to see the more reasoned discussion above.

Personally, as I say above I am against charging fees.

Another factor which falls into the "Law of Unexpected Consequences" is the big decline in males attending tertiary education. All sorts of reasons have been put forward but I am guessing that young males consider £50,000 is too much debt to take on and so are starting work at 18.

Females confronted with the glass ceiling, I'm guessing feel that they need to collect as much to differentiate themselves in a competitive marketplace and are taking on tertiary education at £50,000.

My own position is that I studied Economics.......which led to accountancy......I nearly read archaeology which would have had no impact on my eventual career........or any outcome. The bulk of the people on the Economics course have gone to do financial type jobs, ie reasonably well paid, whilst the Archaeology course members are much, much lower earners.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 13:59
I'm not keen on the idea that a degree is a vocational qualification. Sure some are, but since leaving uni I've never worked anywhere where my degree was in the slightest bit relevant. Was it a waste of time/money - absolutely not.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 14:42
Quote:
DanWiley

I don't really understand why people are happy to invest in education up to 18, then as soon as they are over 18 make it expensive? Or aren't you? Do you think all education should be paid for?

Its the assumption that as many people as possible should go to university that I would challenge. It only leads to a sort of educational 'inflation' which only decreases the value of a degree.

I agree that the Humanities should not be brushed aside in favour of industry. In fact I would support the more general educational system espoused in the US and other parts of Europe.

I think there is ample opportunity for later specialisation in the further education system and there is a role for companies here too (although they also suffer from educational inflation).

I would prefer if tertiary education was more general and free to the user and that companies/government or they fund specialisation as required.

I disagree with the current system which sees those in high value fields and the lucky ones pay and allows those who degree (subject or institution) is of less value in the job market to not have to make that cost/benefit assessment.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 15:00
"Its the assumption that as many people as possible should go to university that I would challenge."

Just to clarify my position. In an ideal world, money not an issue, as many people as WANT to should be encouraged to go. In the real world, there are going to be some limits, but those limits should be related to ability not finance.

Because we can't make a perfect judgement about who is going to thrive there, we do need to send more than there are jobs for. Some will come out having discovered that those jobs are not for them (for various reasons) and some didn't look like it was for them will surprise.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 15:01
I'd agree with that clarification, I never thought the 50% target was helpful.

Specialisation in tertiary education is helpful I feel. My concern is that there's too much specialisation at GCSE and A Level.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 16:16
The things that are killing our degree-aspirations are a/ the culture of living away from home, and b/ the farcically short university year.

Typically, a 3-year degree is now going to result in about £45k of debt for the majority (£8k fees, £6k living loan). The £6k living allowance doesn't even cover a year of hall of residence fees in most cases, so, on to the £45k, every student is going to need to earn/borrow or be subbed at least £4k a year.

If a student lives at home, you could probably knock off a good £6k a year. No, it's not nearly such a great life experience - but if you are so skint and overwhelmed by debt after University that you have to then live at home, aged 22-25 years old, you're going to seriously wonder what was the point (as are the parents!).

Alternatively, why not do a degree in two years. Students living in rented accommodation, and even halls of residence to an extent, currently end up paying 30+ months rent for accommodation they occupy for about 22-23 months - that's a lot of wasted money across 3 years. A degree in 2 years could easily end up costing less than 2/3rds of a degree in 3 years.

The point, for me, is that we should be wanting and encouraging as many people (who are capable) as possible to study for a degree. But the present culture and system is an economic basket-case that is going to blight the lives of this particular generation, most of whom will come out of University with a debt that is equivalent to their parents' first mortgage.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 16:25
Quote:
DanWiley

Just to clarify my position. In an ideal world, money not an issue, as many people as WANT to should be encouraged to go. In the real world, there are going to be some limits, but those limits should be related to ability not finance.

I'm mostly in agreement but if access isn't restricted it becomes devalued.

Many graduate jobs of today were not the graduate jobs of yesterday.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 16:28
Quote:
hasta
Specialisation in tertiary education is helpful I feel. My concern is that there's too much specialisation at GCSE and A Level.

Specialisation at schools may indeed be a problem - in many ways they exist to get as many people into University as possible and narrowness helps that cause.

However no university degree can teach you the technical skills you may require for every possible job - it's a chimera.

The softer skills are still immensely important and university as a commitment to further knowledge with the umique resources they have are far better placed to teach humanities to more people than any secondary education institution.

You still have you major - it's not like you stop learning science amd it will still be the major part pf your degree. You just also focus on other useful subjects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/11/2016 16:35 by Substitute.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 17:03
The paranoid obsession with 'technical' vocational education is leading generations down a blind alley

We are feeding kids information and knowledge on subjects that will be redundant by the time they leave education

Vocational education is great but needs to start earlier and business has to be prepared to invest in this from the start so that there is fully integrated industry-education model but also we need to appreciate that the 'hippy' subjects around the Arts also have a big place to play in a mature, intelligent, inclusive society and investment funding is essential here as well

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 17:18
Quote:
gaz59
We are feeding kids information and knowledge on subjects that will be redundant by the time they leave education.

Vocational education is great but needs to start earlier...

How does that follow?

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
15 November, 2016 17:27
Universities now see overseas students from China as the target to enrol.

Makes sense.

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
19 November, 2016 09:44
Excellent documentary.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
BBandW
BBandW (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
19 November, 2016 11:42
I see Trump has avoided justice by paying $25m to the students he swindled.

Lock him up I say.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
19 November, 2016 12:38
Substitute - you get employers directly involved in the curriculum delivery at the start of secondary school and in the design of some aspects of the planning of teaching and learning at Key Stage 2

Bring the worlds of education and work much closer together from an early stage

Learning then becomes far more relevant to the real world and teaching can be developed and adapted as the innovation and technology used in work changes

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
23 November, 2016 05:29
From the BBC

Trump disavows 'alt-right' supporters

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
25 November, 2016 07:53
Nigel Farage Germans Destroyed Greek Prime Minister (new)

[www.youtube.com]

 
Blessing
WilliamBlessing (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
26 November, 2016 06:48
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

BREAKING NEWS: Communist revolutionary Fidel Castro dies aged 90, just months after former Cuban president announced he 'would die soon'

[www.dailymail.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/11/2016 06:57 by WilliamBlessing.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
26 November, 2016 08:25
When will you accept that we are in an era of 24hour rolling news William so your news links are entirely unnecessary unless you have something interesting to say (Sm103)

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
26 November, 2016 08:56
I won't be sending a card.

 
BBandW
BBandW (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
27 November, 2016 08:14
Farewell Fidel.

Heroic revolutionary who freed his people or murdering despot, he was certainly a significant world political figure.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Overseas Politics
27 November, 2016 08:29
Quote:
BBandW
...he was certainly a significant world political figure.

He wasn't for the younger generations.

Which is precisely why Labour will get away with it's foolish pro-socialism, human justice - ignorant response.

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