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MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:15
Just read Sam Underhill to Bath for next season on Alastair Eykyn's twitter!

Fantastic if true!! Just what we need to support Louw!

Salmon



Adopted Player 17-18 & 16-17: Dave Attwood
Adopted Player 15-16: Matt Garvey

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:17
Reported in the Times tomorrow. Apparent 150k fee paid for remaining contract.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:18
Now THAT was unexpected. Excellent news.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:18
[twitter.com]

Simon Thomas has linked to the Times suggesting that we have agreed a transfer fee and will be announcing in the next few days.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:20
Quote:
ken_jnr
https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/818955183677915143
Simon Thomas has linked to the Times suggesting that we have agreed a transfer fee and will be announcing in the next few days.

Cheers, I couldn't workout linking it on my phone!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:23
Chronicle to run a story tomorrow with quotes from Blackadder. All seems legit and not hersay!

Very exciting!

 
Rokoholic
Rokoholic (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:26
A kick in the teeth for our club captain, but fantastic news for Bath and England!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:30
Brilliant news.

Sort of had a hunch though!

Quote:
shipwrecked
Underhill still sitting on the bench at Ospreys because of the number of outstanding 7's around him.

Just to reinforce that he was being overlooked simply because of the quality around him. Justin Tipuric has made 116 completed tackles this season and missed 0.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:44
I am awaiting the official announcement but if (hopefully) as true as it appears, it is a wonderful statement of our intent to continue to build a young mainly English qualified side, and also shows good players with ambition want to come and play for Bath.

Really made my day!

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:47
Lets hope he lives up to the high expectations set out for him by the media.

Still hoping there is cap for a new TH & second row.

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:56
Quote:
shipwrecked
Just to reinforce that he was being overlooked simply because of the quality around him. Justin Tipuric has made 116 completed tackles this season and missed 0.

Slightly OT but what impresses me about that stat is Tipuric is highly regarded for his attacking prowess but I would expect that to be to the detriment of his defensive qualities. Could he be the complete player?

Interested to see if the Underhill rumour is true, afraid the writing could well be on the wall for Mercer Snr if it is. It would be a shame as he's Bath through and through but he's had plenty of opportunities and the quality required isn't quite there...

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
10 January, 2017 23:58
He is an ex Gloucester Academy lad, being schooled at Sir Thomas Rich's and played for Longlevens.

In same England set up as Will Homer and Rory Jenkins and no doubt knows Jack Walker as well.

He no doubt appreciates the chance to learn of the master poacher Mr Louw and is joining at an exciting time for the club with its new coaching set up and wealth of talented players.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 00:34
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 00:49
Quote:
JimDaff
Quote:
shipwrecked
Just to reinforce that he was being overlooked simply because of the quality around him. Justin Tipuric has made 116 completed tackles this season and missed 0.

Slightly OT but what impresses me about that stat is Tipuric is highly regarded for his attacking prowess but I would expect that to be to the detriment of his defensive qualities. Could he be the complete player?


I think Tipuric is a real force, often ignored because of his size but in open field you are right, he runs and scores like a centre. A definite Lion unless Gatland simply goes for bulk.

One of the reasons he has such a high tackle ratio is because of the way Ospreys get turnovers. It's well suited to the changing laws as he simply wraps his player up and stops them going to ground. Turnover.

Underhill is a bit more in the Flo mould, but he is quick and athletic, great foil for Faletau.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 07:01
Very disappointed if true. Lacks the jackalling ability of Nowell, grunt of Dollman and outright searing pace of Waldrom.

Shame about Guy M but with Ellis, Underhill and Zach M we could have our top class back row for the next 10 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2017 07:06 by BathMatt53.

 
bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 07:36
The back row of him, Ellis and Mercer is the future of the club. Brilliant news!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 07:38
We would still need cover in the back row, remembering that Denton, Faletau, Louw as well as perhaps even Underhill himself could be on international duty.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 07:40
I think that Louw is probably done with S.A. Now?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:09
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

+1

We have too many England players in the squad



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:19
Quote:
BathMatt53
Very disappointed if true. Lacks the jackalling ability of Nowell, grunt of Dollman and outright searing pace of Waldrom.

Thank you BathMatt - that started the day with a cracking chuckle

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:19
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

+1

We have too many England players in the squad

Isn't he the only young English player we have signed this season alongside 4 s.h. players and some welsh? Sounds like the balance is being redressed to me but when a player with his potential comes up we would be mad not to be interested because of that IMHO. Besides we lost devoto and eastmond so we are still down on last season.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:34
Yes,but can he play tight head?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:43
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

+1

We have too many England players in the squad

We have to decide where we set the bar. The alternative is we fill the squad with very good but not international players. Great for Premiership success, but having achieved access to the Champions cup, we get smashed by clubs with top notch international stars.

Our goal has to be European success not winning the Premiership. In addition doesn't having top players provide an elite resource and bring everyones skill levels up?

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:50
Great news! Will be really interested to see him play for us. Could be the sort of player we were looking for when we put Sam Burgess in the back row as he's a physical specimen who can carry strongly and with Faletau, Ellis, Flo, Z Mercer is a back rower who has all the abilities of a back but with the grunt and dark arts skills that only the back row can provide!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:52
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

+1

We have too many England players in the squad

We have to decide where we set the bar. The alternative is we fill the squad with very good but not international players. Great for Premiership success, but having achieved access to the Champions cup, we get smashed by clubs with top notch international stars.

Our goal has to be European success not winning the Premiership. In addition doesn't having top players provide an elite resource and bring everyones skill levels up?

Surely one of the goals has to be longevity. Keeping a core of players together for a long time to build a successful team and, dare I say, 'culture'!

We could bring in established non-international mercenaries, for a quick fix. But we would struggle to meet our English Qualified match quota. And would they stay long?

I prefer to see us investing in young players that will be the future of the club for years to come, added to a few world stars - such as Faletau and Louw.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:53
Quote:
Boldngrey
Yes,but can he play tight head?

If Lahiff can learn to be a decent Tighthead, any chance Obano could switch sides? Loosehead is well covered at the moment.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 08:58
My last comment on this for a while:

Auterac
Obano
Walker
Dunn
Stooke
Ewels
Underhill
Ellis
Sisi
Mercer
Homer
Ford
Hastings
Clark
Watson

All 24 or under and English (except Hastings).

That's not a bad 'core' to take the club forward for the future. Not a bad player amongst them and bags of potential!

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 09:24
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Fantastic signing though I never understand this emphasis on young English players who ideally would all be away together playing for England but I must be missing something.

+1

We have too many England players in the squad

Isn't he the only young English player we have signed this season alongside 4 s.h. players and some welsh?

But then the SH players we signed were needed to plug massive holes in the squad, and apart from Tapuai are only contracted until the summer. I don't think that necessarily represents a shift in long term recruitment strategy. There just weren't any English players available in October because anyone decent was contracted.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 09:38
Fantastic news (when confirmed). He's the perfect premiership animal.

Can see him alternating with Flouw (whose SA days could well be numbered), and pairing with him from 6 on harder grounds/astros, with Garvey being given an opportunity to rest or fill/cover second row.

Much rather he be English than not. He's clearly ambitious and hunting international honours which is very important if we want to compete right at the top. At the end of the day, only 1 or 2 opensides will get picked by England and won't be available for Bath. If Underhill is good enough to be selected as one of those 1 or 2 then the quality he'll give us when playing for us will be more than enough to make up for his occasional absence. In semis and finals, you need international class players. In Flouw and Underhill, we now have two top class opensides.

Brilliant news (not for G Mercer...).

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 10:08
On a slight tangent, the mail is reporting a 200k salary. Imagine being on a 200k salary as a 20 year old student!! Then add potential England money...I think that I would have lasted the time it takes to get to a Porsche garage and then slide it off at the first corner. At least he won't have to worry about his tuition fees (or the bridge toll for his final year).

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 10:27
Yes, that's big money I initially thought it was over a 2 year period but it is reported to be an annual sum. Made even better by a drop in bridge tolls next year!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 10:45
Quote:
BathMatt53
Shame about Guy M but with Ellis, Underhill and Zach M we could have our top class back row for the next 10 years.

He's nowhere near first choice this year so not a lot changes. We still need dependable club men as back up who don't cost an arm & a leg. Who better than Mercer who is Bath through & through & rarely lets us down.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 10:59
Quote:
BathMatt53
On a slight tangent, the mail is reporting a 200k salary. Imagine being on a 200k salary as a 20 year old student!! Then add potential England money...I think that I would have lasted the time it takes to get to a Porsche garage and then slide it off at the first corner. At least he won't have to worry about his tuition fees (or the bridge toll for his final year).

This, I think is a big issue for clubs. OK we are still a long way short of footie where that kind of money is a weekly wage for a young potential star but we have seen how the heady brew of loads of dosh + high profile trappings of celeb lifestyle + a lot of time not playing or training = seriously dysfunctional behaviour and attitude in some cases

Hopefully clubs will learn the lessons and provide the pastoral support to ensure this doesn't become a problem in rugby - we have too many unhappy stories at Bath already and that was well before the money got anywhere near this level

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:04
There would still be a place in the squad for G Mercer even if Underhill is definitely confirmed I believe.

Our backrow resources for next season would appear to be;
6. Ellis / Garvey / Sisi
7. Underhill / Louw / G Mercer
8. Faletau / Z Mercer

That to me seems pretty good talent wise, all bar 2 are english and young (or young enough for the next 3 seasons or so) and I do feel like I'm missing some still there?? Plus that's not including that many of those can play more than one position in the back row and that someone like Ewels can also cover 6/8, plus we have Levi Douglas in the academy who looks a good prospect too.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:10
Does anybody know how long Louw is contracted for?

At his age he may be thinking of making a last career change. Especially in the light of the South African government interfering in national rugby selection. His wife has completed her studies, they have a young family, he may be thinking of heading home. I don't have any insight here, but I wonder if he is contemplating his future.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:13
Louw staying until at least 2019 it appears!

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:16
Dan Evans seems pretty adamant on the Facebook group that Flo will finish his career at Bath. He then mentions that Sisi is out of contract, implying that he may be off.

 
BathOtter
BathOtter (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:24
Don't forget Dave Denton in there...

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:25
I sincerely hope Francois sees out his contract, as he could teach Underhill so much. However, if a rich French club came a calling with a lucrative paying final career ending contract, he might well be persuaded to take the Euro. Wonder if Mike Ford would like to tempt him to Toulon?

I also wonder what Francois sees himself doing after his playing days. Anyone have any insight on this?

He always appears to get on well with Bruce, who was a guest at his wedding, and wonder if he might be interested in a coaching/management role at the club?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:26
Quote:
Big Dog
There would still be a place in the squad for G Mercer even if Underhill is definitely confirmed I believe.
Our backrow resources for next season would appear to be;
6. Ellis / Garvey / Sisi
7. Underhill / Louw / G Mercer
8. Faletau / Z Mercer

That to me seems pretty good talent wise, all bar 2 are english and young (or young enough for the next 3 seasons or so) and I do feel like I'm missing some still there?? Plus that's not including that many of those can play more than one position in the back row and that someone like Ewels can also cover 6/8, plus we have Levi Douglas in the academy who looks a good prospect too.

Denton?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:32
If Flou is going, that is why we can afford to push the boat out with regards to Mr U's salary, to ensure we get the best potential player available in his place. Makes sense now.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:40
Flouw has a young family, house, stable roots in Bath. I think he'll be here until end of his career.

As said, I don't see Underhill as a replacement, more a complement. The two of them at 6 and 7 with faletau at 8 with Chatteris and Attwood in the second row and Garvey and Denton on the bench is world class on a fast pitch.

Only problem is helping Ewels reach his potential too, likely in rotation within Chatteris. Exciting any way you cut it.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 11:44
An excellent signing and genuine open-side addition. Our strength in depth at back five will be superb.

Still worried about hooker/tight head though...

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 12:03
I agree with Dr Bath. I have a hunch that Frans will see his career out with us and then some as a coach.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:27
I thought Flo had already said in the past that he plans to see out his career at Bath?

Or did I make that up?

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:28
Having spoken to Francois several times when I've seen him in and around Bath (the most recent time being when I spoke to him prior to his return from injury when we were both christmas shopping) I get the impression he is very settled in Bath and would not have signed that contract as recently as last January to last until 2019 if he did not have the intention to stay here.

As someone else said - Underhill complements, not replaces Francois and we could see Underhill improve even more under his tuterage in the way you see Sam Jones, Haskell, Young etc improved greatly from having the experience of George Smith to teach them at Wasps for only one season! If Flo can do the same with Ellis, Underhill, Z Mercer etc it would be terrific for competition in the squad an overall performances of our back rowers!

My only reservation is the supposed pay salary of Underhill as a 20 year old. 200,000 a year seems extremely high and considering we will have had guys come up through the Academy or still in it such as Dunn, Ewels, Z Mercer, Ellis etc who will be on nothing close to this money but will probably make as many 1st team performances a year will this figure not cause upset in the squad? After all, not everyone can be on that much can they...?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:34
Isn't Zach Mercer still in the academy? I thought that the academy salary was 30k or have I imagined that? I could be confusing it with salary cap credits or something.

I guess George Ford (and George North) probably got more than 200k as a 20 year old so its nothing new.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:38
I'm highly skeptical of these figures that appear for salaries. As you say, it seems a lot, but unless you're sure of the details of his contract I can't get too upset.

What was the phrasing in the mail?

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:45
Z. Mercer is expected to sign a senior player contract at the end of the season.

I can't see Z. Mercer or Underhill getting too much gametime when we have a fully fit backrow until the 6N where one of them will probably have to start *if* available to us.

Garvey, Flouw, Faletau - Ewels and Denton on the bench, bit difficult to replace one of those.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:49
Quote:
DanWiley
I'm highly skeptical of these figures that appear for salaries. As you say, it seems a lot, but unless you're sure of the details of his contract I can't get too upset.
What was the phrasing in the mail?

My mistake it was 'Wales online'.

[www.walesonline.co.uk]

Being based in Bath - where he will be reportedly on about 200,000-a-year - with
enable him to travel back and fore to Cardiff to complete the final year of his
degree.


So 'reportedly' and 'about' in the same sentence...must be true m'lud.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 13:54
They could have added an "up to"

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 14:25
Quote:
Boldngrey
Yes,but can he play tight head?

No but the rumour is that Ethan Waller and Paul Hill are leaving Saints and they can? Doesn't Waller cover both sides? Paul Hill to Sale is the talk I think.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 14:31
Underhill may well be a good signing, but yet another player not completing his contract isn't good for the long term future of rugby. The only people to benefit from the growing number of transfer fees being paid are the parasitic agents.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 14:38
Just to give a counter point to that, though I agree to an extent, the way we've poached players from Irish has a slightly ill taste to it. Had the norm been that we'd bought them out of contract it would at least have been a reward for developing those players, which might have meant they aren't where they are now.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 14:39
Quote:
OutsideBath
Underhill may well be a good signing, but yet another player not completing his contract isn't good for the long term future of rugby. The only people to benefit from the growing number of transfer fees being paid are the parasitic agents.

I'm OK with it - if the player and both clubs agree that its best for all 3 parties then why not? One club wants the cash, the other club wants the player and the player wants game time, its a win - win - win.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 15:32
Quote:
by
Z. Mercer is expected to sign a senior player contract at the end of the season.
I can't see Z. Mercer or Underhill getting too much gametime when we have a fully fit backrow until the 6N where one of them will probably have to start *if* available to us.

Garvey, Flouw, Faletau - Ewels and Denton on the bench, bit difficult to replace one of those.

Yes that fully fit back row, I'm looking forward to that.....

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 15:33
I hope Sisi stays. His injury absence and the form of Ellis and Z Mercer have taken him out of the spotlight recently, but he has power, pace ball winning ability. One who can play across the back row.

If he does we really will have strength in depth. I suppose it depends whether we re-sign Denton or not.


PG

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 15:47
I guess it depends on whether Sisi thinks it is worth staying for half a dozen first team games a season - and whether Grant, as well as Denton, gets re-signed (I haven't seen anything that would make me extend Grants deal).

He hardly played any games for Irish last year in a relegated team so hasn't had a run at the top level for a long long time - at 24 in a couple of weeks he really needs to be playing regularly.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:06
Confirmed on the Offy! Underhill is ours for 3 years.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:17
Good news. It could work really well with Flow.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I wasn't keen on Mercer as captain is that it, to my mind, effectively blocked us beginning to integrate the next generation of 7.

It will be interesting to see if we have 3 dedicated 7s (too many in my opinion), Flow moves partially to 6 or leaves (I don't see him not seeing out his contract) or we let Guy go (which would be rather harsh given his status as captain).

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:24
Quote:
DanWiley
Good news. It could work really well with Flow.
I have to admit that one of the reasons I wasn't keen on Mercer as captain is that it, to my mind, effectively blocked us beginning to integrate the next generation of 7.

It will be interesting to see if we have 3 dedicated 7s (too many in my opinion), Flow moves partially to 6 or leaves (I don't see him not seeing out his contract) or we let Guy go (which would be rather harsh given his status as captain).

One thing the last few seasons has shown us we need strength in depth.

When your 1st choice is injured and you start relying on your 2nd a lot, you need a decent 3rd choice available to come off the bench or in real dire need start occasionally.

If we can afford all 3 keep them. TB is not shy of rotation.

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:29
Quote:
OutsideBath
Underhill may well be a good signing, but yet another player not completing his contract isn't good for the long term future of rugby. The only people to benefit from the growing number of transfer fees being paid are the parasitic agents.

I guess this is slightly different to some in that if Underhill wants a chance at England he's got to move, and he's probably ready to do so now rather than wait another year. So in part his early departure is as a result of the international selection rules - although those in turn are due to players going to the highest cash! What a mess!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:41
We can only afford them by losing either quality or quantity elsewhere. Put another way, we can't have strength in depth, we can have strength OR depth. What you're suggesting is depth at the cost of strength I suspect.

Having three players that are dedicated to a position is something I think we can only stretch to in positions where you can't expect to get cover elsewhere, hook porp and 9 specifically. It's pretty rare for a player who can play elsewhere being able to cover one of those 3 adequately. So we need 3.

In the back row you can get players who are primarily 6/8 that can cover 7, Sisi and Fernes being examples. It doesn't seem to me to be a place where we have to have three dedicated players.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:44
Quote:
OutsideBath
Underhill may well be a good signing, but yet another player not completing his contract isn't good for the long term future of rugby. The only people to benefit from the growing number of transfer fees being paid are the parasitic agents.

Whilst I agree with the agents bit, I think Underhill's position was inevitable, there is a complete glut of flankers in Wales and in particular at Osprey's where there is almost an academy of them.

It has been explained by stating that 7's are actually frustrated 10's and are often the best athletes at in the team.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:51
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Underhill may well be a good signing, but yet another player not completing his contract isn't good for the long term future of rugby. The only people to benefit from the growing number of transfer fees being paid are the parasitic agents.

Whilst I agree with the agents bit, I think Underhill's position was inevitable, there is a complete glut of flankers in Wales and in particular at Osprey's where there is almost an academy of them.

It has been explained by stating that 7's are actually frustrated 10's and are often the best athletes at in the team.

Hear what you're saying, but I'm just of the opinion that once a contract has been signed both parties should honour it until it's conclusion. I see rugby going down the route of football where agents routinely engineer moves to simply make money.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 16:52
Very exciting news. Now George - stop being a d1ck and get on the bus.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 17:07
Quote:
DanWiley
We can only afford them by losing either quality or quantity elsewhere. Put another way, we can't have strength in depth, we can have strength OR depth. What you're suggesting is depth at the cost of strength I suspect.
Having three players that are dedicated to a position is something I think we can only stretch to in positions where you can't expect to get cover elsewhere, hook porp and 9 specifically. It's pretty rare for a player who can play elsewhere being able to cover one of those 3 adequately. So we need 3.

In the back row you can get players who are primarily 6/8 that can cover 7, Sisi and Fernes being examples. It doesn't seem to me to be a place where we have to have three dedicated players.

Underhill could certainly cover all three positions I think despite being flagged as a 7. If Steffon Armitage can play 8 then so could Underhill and he's definitely good enough to play 6. With Garvey able to cover lock as well we have a really versatile second and back row options available to us with adequate cover for each position even during internationals or injury crises! Is that not what we want!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 17:17
I don't really know Sam that well, so great if he can cover all three positions, it doesn't really change Guy's position.

The flexibility you mention is what we want, but Guy doesn't fit into that flexibility. Just suppose it's a choice between Sisi and Guy, Sisi covers the back row, Guy doesn't. If you want that sort of flexibility, who do you keep?

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 17:28
Excellent news! Would much rather have him on our books than Gloucester's!



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 17:38
Dan Guy is still contracted next season and is club captain, Sisi is neither.

Either way the Chronicle mentioned the club could still be on the lookout for another backrow, so perhaps they will aim to keep both.

"It's not yet clear whether the coaches are content with their bank of scrum-halves - Chris Cook is coming to the end of his contract - nor whether they want to bring in one more back-row forward."

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 17:40
Quote:
Optimist
Very exciting news. Now George - stop being a d1ck and get on the bus.

It will be ironic if next season George Ford comes to the Rec with another side and is harassed to distraction by Underhill, Faletau and Garvey!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 18:29
Quote:
DanWiley
We can only afford them by losing either quality or quantity elsewhere. Put another way, we can't have strength in depth, we can have strength OR depth. What you're suggesting is depth at the cost of strength I suspect.
Having three players that are dedicated to a position is something I think we can only stretch to in positions where you can't expect to get cover elsewhere, hook porp and 9 specifically. It's pretty rare for a player who can play elsewhere being able to cover one of those 3 adequately. So we need 3.

In the back row you can get players who are primarily 6/8 that can cover 7, Sisi and Fernes being examples. It doesn't seem to me to be a place where we have to have three dedicated players.

So far Sam is the only signing added to our squad for next season. The cap goes up again by another 400k for non-home grown players and an additional 100k for home grown credits.

So currently we have space to strengthen by adding numbers, without compromising the current squad. We don't have to sign superstars all the time, there is room to add quality players within the cap.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 18:52
Wilson, Fearns, Kyle and Burgess would have saved quite a bit compared with last year. Then the cap went up a lot. So even accounting for some more expensive contracts for Watson and JJ etc plus the 3 from NZ (which will be out of contract) and tapuai we should have a fair wedge left over?



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 19:07
The NZ 3 won't be on big contracts. Fruean with a dubious injury record and Wilson & Grant are not Super Rugby standard. Shaun Knight would be similar.

Tapuai would have a good contract, as demonstrated by a 2 year deal not just 1.

And for the additonal 100k Home grown credits, that makes space to improve Hastings, Zach Mercer and / or Obano. (Academy contracts are limited to 30k).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2017 19:08 by BathSalmon.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 19:38
Quote:
BathSalmon
The NZ 3 won't be on big contracts. Fruean with a dubious injury record and Wilson & Grant are not Super Rugby standard. Shaun Knight would be similar.
Tapuai would have a good contract, as demonstrated by a 2 year deal not just 1.

And for the additonal 100k Home grown credits, that makes space to improve Hastings, Zach Mercer and / or Obano. (Academy contracts are limited to 30k).

I'd be "improving and extending" Zach Mercer as rapidly was we can. He reminds me of a young Ben Clarke.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 19:54
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
BathSalmon
The NZ 3 won't be on big contracts. Fruean with a dubious injury record and Wilson & Grant are not Super Rugby standard. Shaun Knight would be similar.
Tapuai would have a good contract, as demonstrated by a 2 year deal not just 1.

And for the additonal 100k Home grown credits, that makes space to improve Hastings, Zach Mercer and / or Obano. (Academy contracts are limited to 30k).

I'd be "improving and extending" Zach Mercer as rapidly was we can. He reminds me of a young Ben Clarke.

Only 50k of home-grown credit can be allocated to an individual. But that at least will take him to 80k without impacting the cap.

This shows the value in investing in a good academy system. If you can develop players such as Zach from 18 or before you reap the benefits when they sign a senior contract (HG credit limited to a total of 600k next season).

Not to mention the English Qualified Player quota of average of 15 per match day 23, which is one of the targets set as part of the new RFU agreement. Continually hitting that target will have a financial reward for the club as well.

I agree we need to tie Mercer down quickly, but it's a great starting point to say to him we will more than double your salary with your first senior contract. Fingers crossed for that news.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2017 19:57 by BathSalmon.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 20:18
It could be argued that Zach is our backup 8 at the moment so I would hope that he would continue to get quite a bit of game time, particularly if faletau and Denton are off at internationals in the longer term. He will be a beast if he can bulk up without losing too much of his speed and mobility.



adopted players: J.Williams 16/17, J.Lewis 17/18

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 20:23
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
BathSalmon
The NZ 3 won't be on big contracts. Fruean with a dubious injury record and Wilson & Grant are not Super Rugby standard. Shaun Knight would be similar.
Tapuai would have a good contract, as demonstrated by a 2 year deal not just 1.

And for the additonal 100k Home grown credits, that makes space to improve Hastings, Zach Mercer and / or Obano. (Academy contracts are limited to 30k).

I'd be "improving and extending" Zach Mercer as rapidly was we can. He reminds me of a young Ben Clarke.

Better hands!



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 21:13
Zac Mercer the new Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeroy.

 
Dragon13
ElTorro (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
11 January, 2017 21:57
Underhill appears to have a great reputation. I hope he lives up to it. Has the opportunity to learn from the great Louw. Really positive that we 'won' his signature.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 07:44
The cap going up has just resulted in players getting more money. It's gone up by a lot in recent years, our squad size has not and I don't believe many other squads have either.

The cap goes up across the AP, everyone has more to spend, the number of players remains broadly constant. We either increase our wages proportionally or other clubs do.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 08:04
BM53

You are right that Sisi has not had a rum of games for a while. However, last season he had just begun to establish himself at Irish when he was injured. If he can keep fit I can see him getting many more than a handful of games - especially with the modern attrition rate among loose forwards.

Grant has not lit the world up and for me - Sisi would be a better investment than G Mercer.

PG

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 09:20
Is Sisi another Ben Williams?

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 09:34
Signing Underhill when he was strongly reported as linked with a return to Glaws is a pretty impressive coup especially with them losing Ksvic to Exeter

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 09:40
Quote:
gaz59
Signing Underhill when he was strongly reported as linked with a return to Glaws is a pretty impressive coup especially with them losing Ksvic to Exeter

Apparently we won the signing because we were happy to wait till the end of the season, other clubs in contention wanted him immediately so lost out.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 12:11
Quote:
P G Tips
BM53
You are right that Sisi has not had a rum of games for a while. However, last season he had just begun to establish himself at Irish when he was injured. If he can keep fit I can see him getting many more than a handful of games - especially with the modern attrition rate among loose forwards.

Grant has not lit the world up and for me - Sisi would be a better investment than G Mercer.

PG

Although I agree with you, I notice Grant has been selected ahead of Sisi today.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
12 January, 2017 15:27
I pray we give Z Mercer a good long term deal to keep him here and develop him. Seems like a good young talent and one that could also grow into a top leader for Bath too which would be good with other young talented players like Ewels seemingly leadership contenders too.

Can see Z Mercer learning a lot from someone like Faletau who is a similar sort of shape and skill set for a number 8. Mercer seems quick as well for an 8, similar to a Victor Vito (in his form for the Hurricanes in 2016) type back rower!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
28 January, 2017 21:39
Sam Underhill scores for Ospreys in the Anglo welsh cup against Bristol. Report here. Getting back to full fitness now, looking good.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
19 February, 2017 23:34
Bit more news about our new signing. Sam has a reputation for being a destructive 6/7 and scoring short range tries using his power.
However, yesterday saw him midfield running a 'centres line' back against the flow of play before giving a scoring pass for the try.

Hadn't seen him in that role before, have to say I was impressed!

 
Huew
Huew (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 10:41
I viewed the game Shipwrecked, purely to watch Underhill if I'm honest.
I was hugely impressed with what I saw, if the Ospreys had held on I'm sure he would have been MOTM (although Sam Davies looked good too).
Every involvement Underhill had was carried out with enthusiasm and explosiveness, as you mentioned his carrying was powerful and he ran some great lines while showing soft hands when required.
His tackling was dominant, he was chopping people down behind the gain line time and again and I suspect he's been having a few 1 to 1s with Dan Lydiate. He looks to have a good engine, perhaps not surpising for a 20 year old openside and his all round technique, even just sealing off the ball at ruck time looked excellent.
I'm very excited to see him in the BB&W and I would think he is a sure thing for the England tour to Argentina in the summer and the wider England squad beyond that.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 11:03
With Eddie able to give his full attention to the Argentina tour, and assuming that the next wave of players on that tour show improvement under Eddie in the same way that primary players such as Haskell, Robshaw, Kruis, Vunipola(s), Farrell have - then England are going to come back with some serious, serious strength in depth.

Must admit I feel a bit sorry for some of the players who missed out with Eddie. The likes of Twelvetrees and Morgan, benefiting from the Eddie magic, could actually have become genuine Test match players, but I think they've missed the boat now.

 
Lost Soul
Lost Soul (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 13:49
If Sam, Zack and Tom stay together for the next 5 or so years under the guidance of Flow, Garvey and foulite I will actually feel sorry for the opposition. They have the making of a talented, powerful and gruesome back row.
Keeping them enough game time when the current internationals and Garvey are available will be a trick for the coaches.
We had that opportunity with the backs of ford, eastmond, devoto, JJ, Rocko and Watson and half blew it. Let's hope we can pull that trick off this time.

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 15:13
Correct Opti I think Nathan Hughes will benefit massively from the Eddie only time.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 16:11
I actually wonder whether one or two of those England players who get selected for Lions and end up dirt-tracking will wish they'd spent their summer with Eddie rather than getting Warrenballed into submission?

I could see a player like Youngs coming back from the Lions tour dejected, while someone like Spencer or Robson gets a bit of Eddie magic and leapfrogs him.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 17:03
Or George...

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 18:28
Quote:
hasta
Or George...

I strongly doubt George will be a Lion this time. Sexton, Biggar, Farrell and Russell are ahead of him in the queue.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 20:26
Not sure Russell necessarily is - though he might get the nod on a split vote to keep a broad representation of nations. But yes, imagine if Ford gets the nod, and Lozowzki tears it up in Argentina. Good for England's strength in depth, though.

Same with Jamie George (hedging my bets as to who hasta was referring to), but it's not impossible that LCD could have more fun on his summer hols with Eddie.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 20:46
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
hasta
Or George...

I strongly doubt George will be a Lion this time. Sexton, Biggar, Farrell and Russell are ahead of him in the queue.

Entirely possible and GF would be taking a big hit psychologically if he doesn't go at all!

Be like being uninvited to the biggest birthday party in 4 years, all his mates will be going, Farrell, Youngs, JJ, Watson and he would miss out on the alternative coaching perspectives and team building, that can't be good for your confidence.

Is it really a possibility?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 20:52
I think GF is better off not getting on the Lions tour unless scales have fallen from Gatland's eyes and he plans to emulate Bath 2014/15 style.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Sam Underhill to Bath next season
20 February, 2017 21:21
I'm not sold on Russell or Biggar.

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