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Potential contract extensions?
Discussion started by BathBurger (IP Logged), 21 January, 2017 19:36
BathBurger
BathBurger
21 January, 2017 19:36
Following the emphatic win against Pau is there any more clarity on whether the likes of Fruean and Grant should be offered extensions? I wasn't at the game so I've only seen their performances against Bristol I believe.

Also with Z Mercer out of contract at the end of the season do we have a high likelihood of retaining him? I'm sure someone has a much better grasp on these sorts of dealings than me!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 January, 2017 19:38
Haven't seen enough of freuan and grant. Have looked good against poor oppo.

If we don't offer Zach the earth we would be crazy.

MESSAGES->author
Boy
21 January, 2017 19:43
On radio commentary today Jack Wilson was very keen to extend his stay. Implied that he was yet to receive an offer though.

quanco
quanco
21 January, 2017 19:56
I assume that given these guys haven't had much game time yet, a decision will be made based on their performances after the 6N period. Just my assumption.



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 January, 2017 20:01
Quote:
BathMatt53
Haven't seen enough of freuan and grant. Have looked good against poor oppo.
If we don't offer Zach the earth we would be crazy.

Fruean,Tapuai and Grant have to have a good chance of extensions as Todd would have chosen them to be suitable for his long term vision for the club. Not sure about Wilson.

Grant has been brought on in at least 2 occasions to play the last few minutes in defensive situations. Hard to get up to speed in those situations. He seems a fast attacking player, well capable of keeping up with our backs.

Problem is his position! We have still got Denton and Faletau to come back, at the moment we have 2 internationals who might struggle to get selected.

malco
Malco
21 January, 2017 20:19
Tapuai has a two year contract.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
21 January, 2017 20:20
Quote:
shipwrecked
Grant has been brought on in at least 2 occasions to play the last few minutes in defensive situations. Hard to get up to speed in those situations. He seems a fast attacking player, well capable of keeping up with our backs.
Problem is his position! We have still got Denton and Faletau to come back, at the moment we have 2 internationals who might struggle to get selected.

Denton, in particular, has been broken since we got him. I'd prefer us to give a contract someone who wasn't hand made in Murano.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

bathstigg
bathstigg
21 January, 2017 20:27
Denton has been an expensive player for us buying out his contract at Edinburgh. We have Faletau and Zach Mercer to my mind to fill the number 8 role.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 January, 2017 20:41
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
shipwrecked
Grant has been brought on in at least 2 occasions to play the last few minutes in defensive situations. Hard to get up to speed in those situations. He seems a fast attacking player, well capable of keeping up with our backs.
Problem is his position! We have still got Denton and Faletau to come back, at the moment we have 2 internationals who might struggle to get selected.

Denton, in particular, has been broken since we got him. I'd prefer us to give a contract someone who wasn't hand made in Murano.

Little bit harsh he ripped the muscle from the bone it's not a 2 week injury. I still think he will be a good player for us.

wlatavg006
wlatavg006
21 January, 2017 21:32
Denton took time to settle, but was playing good rugby prior to his injury

by
by
21 January, 2017 21:41
I thought that Grant was only really brought in because we lost Sisi, Denton and Faletau.

I reckon Wilson will get an extension over Williams.

BathBurger
BathBurger
21 January, 2017 22:02
Am I right in thinking Denton had played for us across the back row? (Including 7) This could make him valuable as well as his ability to play second row if needed. He was looking good before the injury but Mercer has been outstanding; Denton will have to play very well during the six nations if he gets the chance

SteveCh
SteveCh
22 January, 2017 12:14
Denton was at his best playing in same slot as Zach is currently or Garvey. Didn't do much to impress when at no 8 IMHO.

MESSAGES->author
Boy
22 January, 2017 15:06
Unsurprisingly, Zach will be offered a senior deal according to Blackadder.

BathBurger
BathBurger
22 January, 2017 17:12
Thanks for the link boy! Looks from that he's impressed with Grant so far! Denton will certainly be under pressure if he does want to stay here.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 January, 2017 17:23
Quote:
BathBurger
Thanks for the link boy! Looks from that he's impressed with Grant so far! Denton will certainly be under pressure if he does want to stay here.

We only bought Denton out of his contract in Nov 2015 surely his can't be up? I think that he is a great squad member to have around, particularly with the number of injuries the back rows tend to get. I can't wait to see him back and playing personally - hopefully he will get a good run with Garvey and Faletau unavailable.

by
by
22 January, 2017 19:11
Said in that article that Guy Mercer and David Sisi are out both out of contract this summer, chances they'll both get an extension?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 January, 2017 19:15
Quote:
by
Said in that article that Guy Mercer and David Sisi are out both out of contract this summer, chances they'll both get an extension?

With underhill arriving and Ellis continuing to come through added to our numbers at 8 it wouldn't surprise me at all if both were let go tbh. Mercer is 27 now and I can't see how he would get a game. I guess it depends on Grant, who seems to have impressed Blackadder in these 2 games (opposition notwithstanding).

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
23 January, 2017 00:16
Sisi is English qualified, has talent and is a strong ball carrier. Given his very unfortunate injuries and as he is only 23, IMV he should be given another contract to see what he can do after a full pre-season.

Guy Mercer has had numerous chances, circa 150 starts and substitute appearances, and has never really got better as he has got older and should be stronger. He should be let go IMV and he will probably end up with a Championship side as I don't believe he is true Prem standard.

Grant has shown his worth in the last two games and will no doubt have more chances to impress in the LV, Anglo Welsh Cup competitions and during the 6 Nations. He is getting better and IMV should be kept over Denton who has frankly been a big dissappointment to me, compared to his past international displays.

For that matter, so has Charteris who just has not put down a marker in a single game, yet with his international and club past performances, he is well short of that form for us.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 January, 2017 06:20
Does Sisi have any more talent than anyone else? I know that he was highly rated as a kid but 24 in a couple of weeks, will have been at Bath 3 seasons (albeit out on loan) he doesn't seem to have come on.

BoB as I said above I don't think Denton is even up for renewal? As per the other thread, agree about Charteris.

gaz59
gaz59
23 January, 2017 08:15
Would be odd not to offer Club Captain a new contract

Don't think that would fit with the Blackadder ethos

Boldngrey
Boldngrey
23 January, 2017 08:57
Quote:
BathMatt53
Does Sisi have any more talent than anyone else? I know that he was highly rated as a kid but 24 in a couple of weeks, will have been at Bath 3 seasons (albeit out on loan) he doesn't seem to have come on.
BoB as I said above I don't think Denton is even up for renewal? As per the other thread, agree about Charteris.



Sisi couldn't even make it at London Irish.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
23 January, 2017 09:52
Sisi has been unlucky with injuries, but also benefits from Ben Williams' syndrome.

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
23 January, 2017 09:59
In my idealised squad of 41, (23 + 15 + 3), we would have 7 back rowers and 5 locks, so 12 in all.
For 2017/8 we potentially have 14:
Faletau, Z Mercer, Grant
Louw, Underhill, G Mercer
Garvey, Denton, Ellis, Sisi
Charteris, Attwood, Ewels, Stooke

So you have to think two out of Guy, Sisi and Grant are in the firing line with the Club Captain the least likely to be discarded.

I still think given the attrition rate you need 4 front rows, but the likelihood of actually finding 4 good tight heads seems vanishingly slim so there may be space for one more back row.

gaz59
gaz59
23 January, 2017 10:03
Could come down to salary cap and contract values

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 January, 2017 10:45
Guy, Sisi and Grant all pretty minor in the grand scheme of things I would guess Gaz? I would have thought it would also depend on whether Levi Douglas will be ready for the step up in 10 or so months time? He will be 22 then so really should be.

by
by
23 January, 2017 11:14
Can't see G. Mercer breaking into the 23 next season with Underhill coming, will have Flouw, Underhill, Ellis and possibly Denton ahead of him playing openside.

I think we could do with another bulky second row to counter balance the light backrow, we seem to be a different team with Attwood there.

It didn't say how long Denton was signed for but I assume it was 2 and a half years, given how most contracts are either 2 or 3 years. So he'll be out 2018/2019.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 January, 2017 11:18
we bought Denton out mid-season and it wasn't cheap according to reports so agree 2 1/2 years more likely than 18 months.

P G Tips
P G Tips
23 January, 2017 11:19
Boldngrey

Not quite so - he was getting a run of games together at Irish then had an injury.
That has been his problem- an injury every season.

He has shown well when fit, so would be worth considering - more so IMHO than G Mercer (although I agree club Captaincy & "local boy" status may stand in Guy's favour.

What is not in dispute this season is that Ellis & Z Mercer have overtaken Sisi: they are must haves.

I suppose much depends on the value our coaches believe they get from (the presumably costly) Denton. I have liked what little I have seen this season- again, if he can stay fit he would be a keeper, but if the coaches are worried about his ability to stay in one piece, he could make way - clearing cap for 2 others.


PG

gaz59
gaz59
23 January, 2017 11:26
Denton sustained one serious, long term injury - no previous record of flakiness I can find and he has strong international pedigree

Surely he will be well placed for retention?

Boldngrey
Boldngrey
23 January, 2017 11:44
Quote:
P G Tips
Boldngrey
Not quite so - he was getting a run of games together at Irish then had an injury.
That has been his problem- an injury every season.

He has shown well when fit, so would be worth considering - more so IMHO than G Mercer (although I agree club Captaincy & "local boy" status may stand in Guy's favour.

What is not in dispute this season is that Ellis & Z Mercer have overtaken Sisi: they are must haves.

I suppose much depends on the value our coaches believe they get from (the presumably costly) Denton. I have liked what little I have seen this season- again, if he can stay fit he would be a keeper, but if the coaches are worried about his ability to stay in one piece, he could make way - clearing cap for 2 others.


PG

Didn't he go on loan to Irish because he was not happy with getting enough game time?

Prams and teddies. Did he really want to play for Bath?

Long time ago - someone correct me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/01/2017 12:18 by Boldngrey.

quanco
quanco
23 January, 2017 11:55
Douglas played school rugby with Saracens' Nick Tompkins who, although dictated by injury to B Barret, started against Toulon last weekend. I see no reason why he would not be ready for a senior contract, other than maybe a lack of in game experience at the top level? However, with his last club Oyonnax, he will have at least gained some exposure. Maybe we will see if he's ready for the step up over the next two weeks or even during the 6N period?

We have, as has been said, an embarrassment of riches.
6: Denton, Garvey, Ellis
7: Louw, Underhill, GMercer
8: Faletau, ZMercer, Grant/Sisi



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

by
by
23 January, 2017 12:05
Quote:
quanco
Douglas played school rugby with Saracens' Nick Tompkins who, although dictated by injury to B Barret, started against Toulon last weekend. I see no reason why he would not be ready for a senior contract, other than maybe a lack of in game experience at the top level? However, with his last club Oyonnax, he will have at least gained some exposure. Maybe we will see if he's ready for the step up over the next two weeks or even during the 6N period?
We have, as has been said, an embarrassment of riches.
6: Denton, Garvey, Ellis
7: Louw, Underhill, GMercer
8: Faletau, ZMercer, Grant/Sisi

Yeah I think Douglas looks great, he made a massive impact off the bench against Bristol from the second row.

nick holder
nick holder
23 January, 2017 12:50
well we may need him as a 2nd row as I was told by a very close friend of Dave Attwood that he has already told the club he is off to France once his current deal expires.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 January, 2017 13:15
Quote:
nick holder
well we may need him as a 2nd row as I was told by a very close friend of Dave Attwood that he has already told the club he is off to France once his current deal expires.

Not such a close friend now that you have put his private thoughts on the forum?

Either way, DA signed a new 3 year deal in November 2015, presumably commencing at the start of this season so we have loads of time - for example Charteris will be long gone by then.

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

HamishMilner
Big Dog
26 January, 2017 09:26
Tbf Attwood may well have told the club that his latest deal would be the last with the club but that doesn't mean he's off anytime soon!!

If he has signed a three year deal he will therefore presumably leave at the end of it when he'll be about 32 or so you'd presume and potentially slowing down but not to the extent that no French teams are willing to pay him big old £££ which is fair enough frankly. I can't imagine him being someone willing to take a big pay day but not offer anything useful particularly for that money when he gets there like a lot of top pros appear to be doing in France!

He's a competitive guy who always wants to play well and has been one of our most consistent performers over the last 3 years for me. His loss due to injury last year was part of the reason why I believe our set piece game was so poor without his leadership and abilities

gaz59
gaz59
26 January, 2017 14:50
Is this the start of something?

"Prop Biyi Alo has signed a permanent contract with Worcester Warriors" from BBC website

Unless it is a journo error this suggests it isn't a time limited fixed term contract, presumably though with a notice clause like normal employment contracts and possibly a contractual salary review date built in also

Greater security for player - termination would need to be a fair one following normal employment law requirements

quanco
quanco
26 January, 2017 15:05
Without reading the article. I would read that as he was maybe on a loan deal before; and has now signed a permanent one.

Interesting concept though.



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
26 January, 2017 15:20
He was on injury cover. The title is just copied from the Worcs site - sounds like a lazy press release rather than them thinking he could play when he is 86 years old?

Boldngrey
Boldngrey
28 January, 2017 21:23
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
P G Tips
Boldngrey
Not quite so - he was getting a run of games together at Irish then had an injury.
That has been his problem- an injury every season.

He has shown well when fit, so would be worth considering - more so IMHO than G Mercer (although I agree club Captaincy & "local boy" status may stand in Guy's favour.

What is not in dispute this season is that Ellis & Z Mercer have overtaken Sisi: they are must haves.

I suppose much depends on the value our coaches believe they get from (the presumably costly) Denton. I have liked what little I have seen this season- again, if he can stay fit he would be a keeper, but if the coaches are worried about his ability to stay in one piece, he could make way - clearing cap for 2 others.


PG

Didn't he go on loan to Irish because he was not happy with getting enough game time?

Prams and teddies. Did he really want to play for Bath?

Long time ago - someone correct me.



I'd better take this back.

I thought he had a very good game on Fri against Glos!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28 January, 2017 21:25
Unfortunately for him he may well have been competing with the MoM...

Boldngrey
Boldngrey
28 January, 2017 21:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
Unfortunately for him he may well have been competing with the MoM...

And Z Mercer – in terms of contract renewals.

SaintED
SaintED
29 January, 2017 13:05
Ford? (Sm159)

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
29 January, 2017 14:12
Quote:
SaintED
Ford? (Sm159)


(Sm148) SaintED


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