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Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 01:00
Possibly this should be included on the main GF leaving thread, but for those not wanting to read all the speculation I have tried to attach the story appearing in the Telegraph.


'George Ford poised to rejoin Leicester Tigers in £450,000-a-year deal.. with Freddie Burns moving to Bath

4 February 2017 • 12:00am

England fly-half George Ford is reportedly on the verge of rejoining Leicester Tigers on a three-year contract.

Bath No 10 Ford has been linked with a move away from The Rec since November last year after it emerged he was upset at the way his father, Mike, was dismissed.

Sale Sharks were thought to be the front-runners to sign the 23 year-old, but The Times is now claiming Ford has agreed a deal with the Tigers worth around £450,000 a season.
George Ford
George Ford had been linked with Sale Sharks

It is believed that is far less than what he was offered by Sale, but the lure of Welford Road, where he left to join Bath in 2013, and the prospect of playing alongside England team-mate Ben Youngs at half-back, swung it in Leicester's favour.

In a further twist, Freddie Burns could be heading in the opposite direction. Burns, it appears, is unwilling to play second fiddle to the England No 10, and is happy to move to Bath where his family is based.

Bath's willingness to allow Ford to join Premiership rivals Leicester is a major turn-around. Last year, when reports of Ford's eagerness to invoke a release clause in his contract emerged, Bruce Craig - Bath's billionaire owner - insisted he would not allow his fly-half to join the Tigers.

It is understood, though, that a suitable compensation agreement has been reached.;

Lets hope Freddie's switch is true and the extra cash could fund our new tight head.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 01:17
It will all come out in the wash. Whatever happens we will end up with a good 10 and the world will keep spinning.



Jeff Williams - adopted player 16/17

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 01:44
Didn't think BC was a billionaire, quite.
Stupid journalists eh, can't get anything r i g h t eh?


HOPFLOUNCECANTBEBOTHEREDREALLY

 
miller8
miller8 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 06:22
Playing for a club he had a passion for when he was a kid might give Freddie
the boost his career needs and the rugby world could see his true potential, especially with the players he will have around him at Bath. George Ford clearly lacks the passion and can lose you a game as well as win it as we saw against Newcastle.

 
MESSAGES->author
callmeMrTibbs (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 06:48
Anyone see the coy greeting and handshake between Todd and Freddie before the Bristol game? The body language was very interesting.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 06:54
Quote:
miller8
Playing for a club he had a passion for when he was a kid might give Freddie
the boost his career needs and the rugby world could see his true potential, especially with the players he will have around him at Bath. George Ford clearly lacks the passion and can lose you a game as well as win it as we saw against Newcastle.

So can Freddie Burns I fear but I think it is damage limitation. As for Ford - we'll see. It all depends which direction Leicester go in.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:21
Hopefully this is journalistic nonesense as this will be a serious downgrade for Bath.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:22
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:29
Quote:
OutsideBath
Hopefully this is journalistic nonesense as this will be a serious downgrade for Bath.

I disagree. It isn't about one player, no matter how gifted they are. A bucket of cash would accompany the player swap. And, in any case, much better to have a 7/10 player with 10/10 commitment than a 10/10 player with 0/10 commitment.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:30
We don't have george as a marquee and I assume (without any evidence whatsoever) he isn't far off that with us. In terms of Leicester I think Owen williams was going to be on nearly that according to reports of his Glos deal I and would assume Freddie isn't on a small wage. It's all relative. Once you add together a first and backup 10 it really does start getting expensive I would guess.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:32
Quote:
Boy
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.
no, and yes it is, they e also lost 2 FHs for next season, which will more-or-less cover Ford's salary. They'll probably need to restructure the cap a little, but the MAP doesn't need to be the 2 best paid players, hit the 2 best paid eligible ones.
Equally the rumoured salary is nowhere near what Sale were rumoured to be offering



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:37
Quote:
BathMatt53
We don't have george as a marquee and I assume (without any evidence whatsoever) he isn't far off that with us. In terms of Leicester I think Owen williams was going to be on nearly that according to reports of his Glos deal I and would assume Freddie isn't on a small wage. It's all relative. Once you add together a first and backup 10 it really does start getting expensive I would guess.

I wasn't saying he was marquee for us, I was asking whether he would be for them.

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:40
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Hopefully this is journalistic nonesense as this will be a serious downgrade for Bath.

I disagree. It isn't about one player, no matter how gifted they are. A bucket of cash would accompany the player swap. And, in any case, much better to have a 7/10 player with 10/10 commitment than a 10/10 player with 0/10 commitment.

Have to agree with Malco here, a player 100% committed to the club is much better than someone not no matter how good they can be. Added to the fact that he seems to have dropped further down the England reckoning with the emergence of Lozowski and I think it could be a genius bit of business if true.
Henry Thomas looked a much better player after coming home, let's hope the same happens with Fred.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:47
If this is true then I would welcome the exchange, my sources inform me Sale are/were not prepared to pay the transfer fee demanded by BC2 for GF and as the report suggests are out of the picture now...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:47
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Hopefully this is journalistic nonesense as this will be a serious downgrade for Bath.

I disagree. It isn't about one player, no matter how gifted they are. A bucket of cash would accompany the player swap. And, in any case, much better to have a 7/10 player with 10/10 commitment than a 10/10 player with 0/10 commitment.

We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:50
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Hopefully this is journalistic nonesense as this will be a serious downgrade for Bath.

I disagree. It isn't about one player, no matter how gifted they are. A bucket of cash would accompany the player swap. And, in any case, much better to have a 7/10 player with 10/10 commitment than a 10/10 player with 0/10 commitment.

We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.

I entirely disagree.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 08:58
Charlie Hodgeson never let Saracens down - another example.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:03
Quote:
OutsideBath
We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.
In what way? Are you suggesting that it's impossible to win things with a FH the calibre of Farrell (or more than 18 months ago), Goode, King, Myler etc etc.
How many Prem/HEC titles have been won with world class FHs? And how many with international class FHs? How many with sub-international class?
Are you aware that rugby teams consist of more than 1 player?



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:05
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
OutsideBath
We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.
In what way? Are you suggesting that it's impossible to win things with a FH the calibre of Farrell (or more than 18 months ago), Goode, King, Myler etc etc.
How many Prem/HEC titles have been won with world class FHs? And how many with international class FHs? How many with sub-international class?
Are you aware that rugby teams consist of more than 1 player?

More to the point, how many titles have we won with George Ford?

 
BathOtter
BathOtter (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:08
Hodgson, Evans, Myler, Flood all 10s in the last 10 years to have won prem titles who you could argue were not world class

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:09
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
Boy
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.
no, and yes it is, they e also lost 2 FHs for next season, which will more-or-less cover Ford's salary. They'll probably need to restructure the cap a little, but the MAP doesn't need to be the 2 best paid players, hit the 2 best paid eligible ones.
Equally the rumoured salary is nowhere near what Sale were rumoured to be offering

Can you clarify that WT. It's probably me but I can't follow what you are saying.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:17
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
OutsideBath
We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.
In what way? Are you suggesting that it's impossible to win things with a FH the calibre of Farrell (or more than 18 months ago), Goode, King, Myler etc etc.
How many Prem/HEC titles have been won with world class FHs? And how many with international class FHs? How many with sub-international class?
Are you aware that rugby teams consist of more than 1 player?

More to the point, how many titles have we won with George Ford?

The club were building what I thought was a successful team around GF, now BC has thrown that away. I just don't see Burns who isn't even Tigers first choice 10 as the answer to Ford leaving.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
MESSAGES->author
Griff (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:21
If true glad it's all sorted. Sorry GF wants to go, but would rather have a squad of players who want to be here than big names who don't. Never thought we'd see Freddie in the BB&W but would be more than happy, could be shrewd busines having two Prem/international quality 10s around all season rather than a 10 that plays ariund 50% of a season.



David Sisi Adopted player 2016/17

"You're going to need a bigger boat"

 
bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:22
[m.bathchronicle.co.uk]

Pretty much confirmed.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:23
If it happens, I'd happily bet that Freddie is going to win more trophies than George over the next 3-4 seasons. I'm more than happy with it.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:25
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
OutsideBath
We could win something with Ford leading the way but won't win anything with Burns/Priestland leading the line.
In what way? Are you suggesting that it's impossible to win things with a FH the calibre of Farrell (or more than 18 months ago), Goode, King, Myler etc etc.
How many Prem/HEC titles have been won with world class FHs? And how many with international class FHs? How many with sub-international class?
Are you aware that rugby teams consist of more than 1 player?

More to the point, how many titles have we won with George Ford?

The club were building what I thought was a successful team around GF, now BC has thrown that away. I just don't see Burns who isn't even Tigers first choice 10 as the answer to Ford leaving.

No he hasn't. He sacked an unpopular and divisive head coach. Which was the right thing to do. George has chucked his toys out of the park and chosen to join a team much earlier in transition and far shorter in talent than ours. His choice.

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:35
Quote:
BathOtter
Hodgson, Evans, Myler, Flood all 10s in the last 10 years to have won prem titles who you could argue were not world class

Of course, Leicester won the title with a young, uncapped Ford playing most of the final in 2013 (aided by Hartley's red card, admittedly).

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:35
Quote:
OutsideBath
The club were building what I thought was a successful team around GF, now BC has thrown that away. I just don't see Burns who isn't even Tigers first choice 10 as the answer to Ford leaving.

Why has this anything to do with BC ?

It's GF's desire to move on because he wasn't happy with how Daddy was treated. Part of me will be sorry to see him go because he's an absolutely world class player, the larger part of me will prefer to see us play with a number 10 fully committed to Bath and without a year long sulk on.

If GF needs to move on in order to grow up then so be it.

 
Bath-Boi
A.M 180 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 09:35
For me, much better to get something in return for this situation than insisting he play out his contract and him walking for nothing once that's done.

Some of the wailing about Burns is crazy. A proven top tier AP fly half, not likely to be away with international duty, to either backup or share the duties with RP. If you think we can't win trophies with that you need your head checking

A bit of cap space is freed as well I'm sure, for other priorities in the squad

 
wetside
wetside (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:01
Great news if we have Freddie in return. RP AND FB in tandem, both available year round and both wanting to play for Bath is fantastic. With the team that we are building around then as well I'm more than happy. Well done BC.

 
wetside
wetside (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:12
Quote:
Boy
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.
Thought the rule is that if you sign a player from another premiership club you can't make him a marquee signing. He has to appear on the wage bill.

 
Budicus
StuartMMoss (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:12
Totally agree with Malco and Beergoggles!

Would love him to stay, but BC did the right thing in sacking Ford Snr and if Jnr is such a cry baby that he can't handle it, then tough. He has to go, let Tigers have a player that runs away when he does not get his own way.

So long GF and thanks for all the fish!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:14
If true this could be the boost RP needs. The effect of being number 2 to Ford is unknown whereas against Burns there is a clear opportunity for both of them to claim number 1.

When I have seen RP he seems to be treading water slightly, this should give him a lift too.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:18
Quote:
wetside
Quote:
Boy
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.
Thought the rule is that if you sign a player from another premiership club you can't make him a marquee signing. He has to appear on the wage bill.

You are correct. A marquee player cannot be based in the Premiership and cannot be England Qualified.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:35
If anyone had suggested to Mike or George that being father/son had any influence, they would both have been outraged that anyone could question their professionalism. Funny how that's turned out then.

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:41
The idea that BC has done the wrong thing in getting rid of MF because it has led to GF wanting to leave is ridiculous. We are far more likely to win something with Blackadder inspiring the team - with or without GF - than we ever were with MF dividing the team by having favourites and denying some players a fair chance (Priestland). With all the talent at his disposal with us last season we flopped badly - and he's not exactly setting the world on fire at Toulon either with their stellar squad.

I'm realistic that Burns isn't the player that GF is at present - but I'd far rather have players that have Bath in their DNA in our squad than others (albeit that some seem to absorb it pretty quickly when here - e.g. Louw). For that reason having Henry Thomas, Burns, Guy Mercer etc in the squad is a good thing - adding young Nixon who has Somerset roots may well prove to be more of the same.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:42
Quote:
Optimist
If anyone had suggested to Mike or George that being father/son had any influence, they would both have been outraged that anyone could question their professionalism. Funny how that's turned out then.

This.

Be interesting to see the crowd reaction when he turns out next for Bath. I hope no-one is as petulant as to boo or give abuse, but I have a feeling that any applause or cheering will be much more muted than before!



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 10:45
Quote:
Optimist
If anyone had suggested to Mike or George that being father/son had any influence, they would both have been outraged that anyone could question their professionalism. Funny how that's turned out then.

Totally agree. This seems to prove that was the case after all. On the face of it it does show a significant weakness of character. We'll probably have to wait for his auto-biography to come out to get the full story.

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 11:03
Good it's over,
minus
we lose aone of the most highly talented, but flawed, players in his position in the world,
pluses
we get release fee,
premiership/borderline interneational player in his position to add to another international in his position
We won't lose them/him to internationals
less % of cap invested in 10 shirt.
Stronger squad because of this
Less of a distraction



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
hipster1676
hipster1676 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 11:13
Sorry to see him go but to be frank he needs to grow up and stop sulking over BC sacking his dad. If that means going to Tigers then so be it. No-one is bigger than the club. As previously stated having 2 very good 10's who we can pick all season is great for us. We are building a phenomenal pack so any talented 10 should thrive behind it and also alongside Kahn. Rhys must be very pleased.

If true then we'll done to our owner

 
BathHalfFull
BathHalfFull (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 11:18
My various thoughts are...
1. While it was just about right for MF to go I don't think BC covered himself in glory the way he handled it - Revealed a lack of class and decency and his ruthless streak, that might work in the cold faced business world, possibly when the coaches son is your star player, requires a bit more tact, diplomacy and decorum.

2. I'm gutted GF is going but it reveals a lack of mettle on his part. Rugby wise Bath is the best team in the country for him (along with maybe wasps)and ideally suited to his game. So to leave suggests he holds a grudge that I wish he had enough steel to let go of. While I love watching him and will continue to when he plays for England, no player is bigger than the team and if his heart and head aren't in it then so be it. A part of me sympathises with him though and I wish him well - can't have been nice to discover most of your band of brothers hate your dad.

3. Burns is a downgrade and I really hope he isn't the option we've taken. He's a decent prem 10 yes but we need and should aspire to more than that. Also the way he left for Gloucester and the unwarranted grief the club got left a bad taste in my mouth and I've got issues with his character partly as a result.

4. I've got a huge man crush on Finn Russell.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 11:19
Stuart Moss - ++1.

Leaving aside the effects on Bath of all this speculation and history, I can't help wondering what on earth Leicester have to offer currently if one is a professional top English qualified rugby player? We shall no doubt see fairly shortly! A club can live on history for only so long! p.s. If Mike Ford ends up (eventually) as in charge at Leicester, we will all be able to have an ironic smile! Btw, is Joe, George's older brother, still in the squad at Sale?



Matt Garvey - one to add to my List of Forward Talented Adoptees since 2003/4!

 
Xerxes
Xerxes (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 11:28
I'm not sure what to make of Burns 'coming home' having seen him singing 'When the Saints Go Marching In'in the Royal Oak during a Bath v Northampton game and laughing when Northampton scored a try.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 12:29
What might well be worth a giggle is whether the rumour of Mike Ford becoming DoR at Tiggers. Bad for them on so many levels, in my opinion, because they sound like they need a coach who's going to throw his arms around players and create a bit of team spirit.

A good mate of mine is a die hard Leicester fan, and he's traumatised by the whole episode: losing Burns and gaining one, maybe two Fords really isn't appealing to many up that end of the Fosse Way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2017 12:33 by @Hydor18.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 12:38
I'd rather we forget swapping for Burns who isn't that special and use the money to try and prize Finn Russell away from Glasgow.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 12:45
I totally agree with Malco, if GF wants to go let him go, less we forget when FB was at Glos he was brilliant for whatever reasons he has not fired on all cylinders at Tigers again this comes down to style of play, players around him and coaching!

Never underestimate the pride in playing for your home town club, you only have to listen to HT to understand.

I am really excited if FB is coming home and under the current coaching regime and players I am sure he will flourish.

I hope we recruit a cornerstone on the tight head to support HT and I would like to say thank you to GF if he is to go, but also please grow up and I hope the grass is greener than when you left Tigers under dark circumstances. I know several of my mates who are Tigers fans are less than excited with this prospect and the perceived negative vibes he brings with him and his immaturity he has shown in these circumstances.

 
Hamptonite
Hamptonite (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 12:48
If this is going to be decided in the way it appears today, the exciting thing for me is that it gives Todd and his coaching team a whole preseason with the key players at 10/12.

The opportunity of having 2 10s that are decent players, not world class, in the squad for the whole season, and not at various training camps, AI's and six nations, must provide some plus points during the season!

Onwards and upwards not glass half empty!

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 12:57
Quote:
malco
Quote:
wetside
Quote:
Boy
Did the rule about not being able to sign marquee players from other AP clubs change when they introduced marquee #2? £450k is a lot of cap on one player.
Thought the rule is that if you sign a player from another premiership club you can't make him a marquee signing. He has to appear on the wage bill.

You are correct. A marquee player cannot be based in the Premiership and cannot be England Qualified.

They can be England qualified. They cannot come directly from another Premiership club, unless they were injury cover at that club.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 13:28
Quote:
Hamptonite
If this is going to be decided in the way it appears today, the exciting thing for me is that it gives Todd and his coaching team a whole preseason with the key players at 10/12.
The opportunity of having 2 10s that are decent players, not world class, in the squad for the whole season, and not at various training camps, AI's and six nations, must provide some plus points during the season!

Onwards and upwards not glass half empty!

Would need to stop Freddie making tackles with his face / head if you want to see him the whole season.

 
incastrowetrust
Ayerza wannabe (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 13:30
Quote:
Ali1969
I totally agree with Malco, if GF wants to go let him go, less we forget when FB was at Glos he was brilliant for whatever reasons he has not fired on all cylinders at Tigers again this comes down to style of play, players around him and coaching!
Never underestimate the pride in playing for your home town club, you only have to listen to HT to understand.

I am really excited if FB is coming home and under the current coaching regime and players I am sure he will flourish.

I hope we recruit a cornerstone on the tight head to support HT and I would like to say thank you to GF if he is to go, but also please grow up and I hope the grass is greener than when you left Tigers under dark circumstances. I know several of my mates who are Tigers fans are less than excited with this prospect and the perceived negative vibes he brings with him and his immaturity he has shown in these circumstances.

Burns is a tough one.

He came to Tigers off the back of an awful season with Glous and Davies ruined his confidence.

I would say at Tigers he has become more of an complete player.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 13:35
I admit to being a little 'meh' about Burns, but if it does happen, I think Tigers fans won't be happy to see him go. Those who watch him tell me he's matured into really good player and is more consistent than we'd give him credit for.

 
ELT
ELT (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:00
Perhaps because I've done most of my grieving for George over the past couple of months, I now feel more sanguine about the outcome. Burns is not as good as Ford (very few are), but he was an international fly half a couple of years ago, and he's a better player now than he was then.

With two very good 10s available for the whole season, the added versatility of Burns being able to cover Homer when Watson is away, and a bit of extra cash to further strengthen the squad, we may not be too badly off. Let's not forget, we might've lost Priestland as well.

Either way, we have to move on. I hope George can finish his time here with a few outstanding performances.

 
bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:00
[mobile.twitter.com]

Looking certain now that he will sign for us.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:20
Quote:
ELT
Perhaps because I've done most of my grieving for George over the past couple of months, I now feel more sanguine about the outcome. Burns is not as good as Ford (very few are), but he was an international fly half a couple of years ago, and he's a better player now than he was then.
With two very good 10s available for the whole season, the added versatility of Burns being able to cover Homer when Watson is away, and a bit of extra cash to further strengthen the squad, we may not be too badly off. Let's not forget, we might've lost Priestland as well.

Either way, we have to move on. I hope George can finish his time here with a few outstanding performances.

Nicely put, I hope George can finish his time here with a trophy for the club! Personnel are temporary the Club is permanent!

 
incastrowetrust
Ayerza wannabe (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:26
Quote:
bathhawk
https://mobile.twitter.com/FreddieBurns/status/827680708760072192
Looking certain now that he will sign for us.

And then Look at the last tweet Ford liked on Twitter

 
bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:44
Yeah just seen that AW looks like the player swap Burns for Ford is definitely happening.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:55
"While it was just about right for MF to go I don't think BC covered himself in glory the way he handled it - Revealed a lack of class and decency and his ruthless streak"

My understanding is that they did a full, confidential review , particularly of player opinion. The decision that Bruce took based on that says a lot. I wonder whether George's chagrin is based as much on what his team-mates evidently thought/think of his dad, as what Bruce's unavoidable decision was.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 14:58
I think the better question is 'given how good George is and how likely he was to be unsettled by the decision, just how terrible must Mike have been?'

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:00
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:02
This is always worth remembering too!

‘I’m massively disappointed,’ said George Ford, when asked about Burgess’s swift exit.
‘I thought he was a guy who was going to have a go and stick it out. He played in the World Cup and I thought he was going to come back to the club, get his head down, play in the back row here and become a world-class player. It all happened quickly but as players we expected him to stay here and he’s not.'

‘He said his heart wasn’t in the game, he’s a better rugby league player and he misses his family. He signed a three-year deal and I think you know at the time what you are doing when you do that.

'If you commit to the club, you commit to that set of players, staff and fans. He committed for three years but he’s gone after a year and a bit. It is disappointing and it’s left a big hole in our back row.'

‘There are lads here who would die for the club — those lads who have come through the academy, and other lads like me who have been here for two or three years and are passionate about it.'

'The lads who would die for this club sacrificed a lot for Sam when he came over and committed to him and put time and effort into making him the player he was at the back end of last year when he was named in that World Cup squad. I feel for those lads.’

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:04
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.

There will be plenty in it for Bath. The biggest transfer fee in the history of the game.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:04
Ooof. Yeah those quotes.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:07
Quote:
hasta
Ooof. Yeah those quotes.

+1 embarassing!

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:15
Have to wonder whether in part those quotes were motivated by the fact that the Burgess affair made his dad look a bit of a prat for backing him so much!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:18
Also worth remembering how scathing Mike Ford was about Burgess, ""All I know is that he didn't have the stomach to see out his contract," Ford said, and that Sam went on record to say that his favourite time in Union was with England.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:21
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.

There will be plenty in it for Bath. The biggest transfer fee in the history of the game.

Clubs with ambition always improve their squad with player movements, this deal is a serious downgrade. The biggest transfer fee in history is nothing to be proud of.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:23
Ford can't hold his teammates in that much contempt and viseversa if he is still happy to captain them.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:34
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.

There will be plenty in it for Bath. The biggest transfer fee in the history of the game.

Clubs with ambition always improve their squad with player movements, this deal is a serious downgrade. The biggest transfer fee in history is nothing to be proud of.

So, he want to leave. There aren't that many available FHs who would be an improvement on Ford in the world and I would presume that they aren't available. I am interested to know what you think that we could do under these circumstances other than try and get the best deal we can?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 15:42
Quote:
@Hydor18
Ford can't hold his teammates in that much contempt and viseversa if he is still happy to captain them.

I don't think for a minute there's 'contempt' on either side. Besides, professional sports-people are pretty good at setting personal feelings aside if it's to their benefit from a pure playing point of view.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:21
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.

There will be plenty in it for Bath. The biggest transfer fee in the history of the game.

Clubs with ambition always improve their squad with player movements, this deal is a serious downgrade. The biggest transfer fee in history is nothing to be proud of.

So, he want to leave. There aren't that many available FHs who would be an improvement on Ford in the world and I would presume that they aren't available. I am interested to know what you think that we could do under these circumstances other than try and get the best deal we can?

Make him stay and honour is contract so a replacement at least close to his quality can be signed, maybe Finn Russell. As it stands BC has capitulated to the detriment of Bath.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:28
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
malco
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given that BC indicated that Ford couldn't leave, but not to Tigers it's surprising that he's backed down with little in it for Bath.

There will be plenty in it for Bath. The biggest transfer fee in the history of the game.

Clubs with ambition always improve their squad with player movements, this deal is a serious downgrade. The biggest transfer fee in history is nothing to be proud of.

So, he want to leave. There aren't that many available FHs who would be an improvement on Ford in the world and I would presume that they aren't available. I am interested to know what you think that we could do under these circumstances other than try and get the best deal we can?

Make him stay and honour is contract so a replacement at least close to his quality can be signed, maybe Finn Russell. As it stands BC has capitulated to the detriment of Bath.



I'm sorry but this is arrant nonsense. He wants to go. He is not committed to the club. He has a peak value which will translate into key strengthening in other vital positions. If we made him see out his contract he would be uncommitted and would have no value. And who's to say that any higher quality fly half would be available and willing to come here next year. This is the best solution for all parties.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:30
Stay and honour his contract with his heart not in it and potentially cause an issue in the dressing room? (Think Payet at West Ham). For me you have to let him go and make the best of a poor situation. Who says Finn Russell even wants to come to Bath?

It's disappointing but I don't think that Bath can be held to blame for any of it and after all Bruce Craig wants the club to succeed as much as you do.

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:34
5 grade 9 players works better in a rugby team than one 10 and a handful of 7s, especially when the 10 is away so much for internationals



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:39
Quote:
BathMatt53
Stay and honour his contract with his heart not in it and potentially cause an issue in the dressing room? (Think Payet at West Ham). For me you have to let him go and make the best of a poor situation. Who says Finn Russell even wants to come to Bath?
It's disappointing but I don't think that Bath can be held to blame for any of it and after all Bruce Craig wants the club to succeed as much as you do.

You're right, I believe BC absolutely does want Bath to succeed, unfortunately he doesn't know how to achieve it.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 16:58
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Stay and honour his contract with his heart not in it and potentially cause an issue in the dressing room? (Think Payet at West Ham). For me you have to let him go and make the best of a poor situation. Who says Finn Russell even wants to come to Bath?
It's disappointing but I don't think that Bath can be held to blame for any of it and after all Bruce Craig wants the club to succeed as much as you do.

You're right, I believe BC absolutely does want Bath to succeed, unfortunately he doesn't know how to achieve it.

What utter nonsense, what else can BC do when a player wants to leave and we are offered a huge amount of cash and a decent replacement who is a local lad and will be committed to Bath. Why is that so bad from him and why would you blame Bruce?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 19:24
Quote:
OutsideBath
I'd rather we forget swapping for Burns who isn't that special and use the money to try and prize Finn Russell away from Glasgow.

Quote:
OutsideBath

Clubs with ambition always improve their squad with player movements, this deal is a serious downgrade. The biggest transfer fee in history is nothing to be proud of.

Quote:
OutsideBath

Make him stay and honour is contract so a replacement at least close to his quality can be signed, maybe Finn Russell. As it stands BC has capitulated to the detriment of Bath.


OB, in your view we should force GF to stay for a year out of spite, dismiss FB despite a good season at Tigers where the club has it issues, then insist BC buy a player out of his contract for big money. P.S. Can't see Finn Russell moving after the Scotland result today.

That is the same BC who caused the problem in the first place in your opinion.

I think a step back is needed, there is much yet to happen.

What if GF wins silverware with us and next season gets off to a flyer? Bath have a massively talented squad, comprised of proven internationals, emerging young talent and an experienced coaching team.

There is loads to feel good about.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 20:01
Quote:
shipwrecked
There is loads to feel good about.

There would be if we weren't losing our best player by far to a rival team before his contract ended.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 20:27
George Ford.

Didn't he used to play for England?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 20:40
Quote:
Boldngrey
George Ford.
Didn't he used to play for England?

He was poor today, but class is permanent so will be back on top of his game shortly.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2017 20:41 by OutsideBath.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 20:43
With Care at 9 today, would George have been a better 10 than Farrell?

I think not.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 20:45
I have never seen him look good in a team when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 mins. When we are rolling over them (such as against Bris a couple of weeks ago) I agree he cuts them to pieces.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 21:12
Quote:
BathMatt53
I have never seen him look good in a team when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 mins. When we are rolling over them (such as against Bris a couple of weeks ago) I agree he cuts them to pieces.

Which is why I think Farrell is the form 10 at the moment.

I wonder if it is worth starting Care, Farrell and Teo next time?

Or will the Welsh pack let him play?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 22:20
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
BathMatt53
I have never seen him look good in a team when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 mins. When we are rolling over them (such as against Bris a couple of weeks ago) I agree he cuts them to pieces.

Which is why I think Farrell is the form 10 at the moment.

I wonder if it is worth starting Care, Farrell and Teo next time?

Or will the Welsh pack let him play?

That is a tricky one, I think Eddie will probably start with GF and OF and keep OF and Teo as his plan B.

Its what happens up front and who is fit?

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 22:32
It will be interesting to see - I remember vividly still the last time we chose to add some grunt to our back line for a Wales match.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 22:46
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
BathMatt53
I have never seen him look good in a team when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 mins. When we are rolling over them (such as against Bris a couple of weeks ago) I agree he cuts them to pieces.

Which is why I think Farrell is the form 10 at the moment.

I wonder if it is worth starting Care, Farrell and Teo next time?

Or will the Welsh pack let him play?

That is a tricky one, I think Eddie will probably start with GF and OF and keep OF and Teo as his plan B.

Its what happens up front and who is fit?

I think you're right.

Interesting to hear them referred to on TV as 'finishers' not 'subs'. The modern (NZ) game keeps the bench for impact, to change direction and add a knock out blow. Care Teo and Haskell certainly did that.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
04 February, 2017 23:29
GF scarcely touched the ball this evening, so hard to say if he was playing well. England looked better with him off, but Teo could have come on for Farrell with much the same effect



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 08:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
I have never seen him look good in a team when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 mins. When we are rolling over them (such as against Bris a couple of weeks ago) I agree he cuts them to pieces.
Tobe fair, I've never seen any fly half ever look good when the pack is outmuscled as ours was in the first 60 minutes.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 08:47
This is true WT but it seems to put him off his whole game. Other FHs will just kick over and pin you back but his kicking radar goes to pot. Or they have the muscle to make some hard yards (Farrell, Biggar, Sexton). Fantastic 10 that he is, my view is that he is definitely a confidence player as you can see from his kicking. Oh no another Ford thread!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 09:04
The big question for a 10 is "do you dictate the game or reflect it?"

As play maker and first first-receiver he has the opportunity to call the shots and dictate where and how the game is played. There are some 10s who have the ability to do this, keep their team in the game even with poor and/or relatively little ball, on the back foot and under pressure

How many times has George done this in a game that has really mattered?

BTW I don't know the answer to it, just throwing it out there

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 09:14
With Farrell I feel when the game gets tough he fronts up to it - competitive edge?

With George I don't get the same feeling.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 09:41
I remember Wilko playing alongside Ollie Barclay in one of the WC games of 2007, where Ollie missed a couple of drop-goals. Eventually JW just got bored of watching him flap about like a novice and calmly took over the duty to show him what real authority looked like. Yesterday it was a bit like that with Faz and George - almost as if one was a youngster and the other was the minder.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:03
I don't think that's fair on GF. Farrell was equally poor and unauthoritative during the early stages of the game and only improved when the necessary substitutions were made. Not that he had much opportunity, but GF's passing was better and his kicking from hand was more effective (when not charged down).

Farrell kicked his goals - which is worth his weight in gold - but that was not a stellar performance by him in attack or defence.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:13
George's strength used to be his unpredictability, will he break, pass or kick and if so where? Weaknesses lack of physical power. Since he has stopped making breaks he has lost that unpredictability.

Farrells strength was his physicality, and kicking off the tee. However, he has added distribution and even the odd break, his pass to Daly for the disallowed try yesterday was a peach.

 
wetside
wetside (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:34
I believe that because Englang don't have two fit top class centres Farrell is asked to play there. Once we can pick a centre pairing without him he will be quickly moved back to stand off.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:34
Even with his current limitations Ford is way better than Burns can ever be.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:41
Quote:
wetside
I believe that because Englang don't have two fit top class centres Farrell is asked to play there. Once we can pick a centre pairing without him he will be quickly moved back to stand off.

Problem with that is that Farrell is one of those top class centres! I think Eddie likes the option of two styles of play, it avoids England falling into the Warrenball trap.

 
wetside
wetside (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:49
Yes. Good point. Just shows how good Farrell is doesnt it ?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 10:59
Burns at his best is better than Ford at his worst. Burns at his best can't lay a finger on Ford at his best.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 11:08
Quote:
wetside
Yes. Good point. Just shows how good Farrell is doesnt it ?

Yes, he fits both styles and is rarely injured, similar to Daly playing wing, centre and 15?

 
wetside
wetside (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
05 February, 2017 11:10
That means that Burns is better than no ford at all. So that means that for a third of the league season we are better off as GF will be away in International duty. Given that GF has off days that's a few more games the Burns is an advantage. Of course we also have Priestland who is not half bad. So I'm going to stick with this optimistic view.

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