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MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 09:00
One of the reasons RP sits a bit deeper is because he favours the little chip over the top of the defensive line, works really well with big opposition and could suit JJ's kick chase game.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 09:41
I genuinely think he should do that more.......in fact I think they should all do it more.

Mostly it works very well and if it only keeps a rush defence back for a millisecond as they think you might do it, it buys so much more time and therefore room.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 10:54
The chip over the top of an on rushing defence is certainly one of Freddie's strengths and I agree we should use it a bit more so to 'hold' the opposition tacklers, even for another second.

From now on I will be concentrating on Bath's confirmed and committed players, not a departing player/s, however good they may be.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 11:09
Does it hold a professional defense? I'd have thought you'd see a pattern such as the 9, another back row and wingers sweeping that space allowing the line to advance without thinking about it.

Obviously, if that system breaks and there is space, use it, but I don't think you can just saying "do it more", it's got to be on just like any other risky move. It seems to me that chipping to one of those sweepers whist you're chasing would put you in a pretty vulnerable position.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 11:33
When used well I think it's really good. I've noticed Tapuai particularly keeps soaring through and collecting these little kicks over well.

I agree though that there is definitely a time and a place and you need to have had a bit of gainline success before otherwise it's all too easy for the 9, open winger, FB etc to sweep and pick it up. Don't want to throw away possession and be caught napping after all with players out of position etc for that change in possession.

Otherwise you get situations where we chip over, they field it and one quick pass or kick and we are immediately retreating!!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 12:12
Like a lot of these ploys it is all in the execution

Too short and the risk is the first line defender can catch it and has a gaping hole to run at

Hit it too long and the sweeper/full back can counter attack against a ragged defence often collecting the ball on the half-volley

Get it right and you are through one on one hopefully with support runners either side

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 12:37
It's like the kick chase which Sarries in particular seem to do so well but which we are so, so poor at. The more you practice something the better you get at it.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 13:23
Our kick chase game has been woeful for sometime as have our restarts with George in particular kicking too long and not high enough to allow a chaser or two to get under the ball.

Lets hope things improve with Freddie and certainly Rhys seemed to get more height on the drop outs than GF.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 17:09
The point about the 10 kicking is that it is entirely in the control of the 10. He can see the cover and dictate the length and height accordingly.

Biggar does this brilliantly but tends to go higher and longer than most due to his ability to win his own ball in the air.

Rhys Priestland often goes shorter, where he differs from George Ford is that he has a more varied game so keeps the opposition guessing.

Ford employs the same tactic repeatedly but varies well within that tactic and executes to a high level. A bit like Opti's coaching example. Ford would do better with his kicking if he employed his running option in addition to his kick or pass.

If he still had a break in his armoury he would be significantly ahead. RP's problem is thta he needs to feel the love! (Sm93)

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 18:40
He will Shipwrecked, he will.

Rhys is the man, George is fading from memory (albeit very good ones on the whole) as RP is the future.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 20:35
Well Billy is having a very fine game for Glaws - hats off to Burns seniors there must be some real talent in those genes

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 February, 2017 23:15
Hope Billy is OK. Carried off with oxygen mask on. He was playing really well and Glaws tactics matched those of Sarries. Kick for position and chase, wait for opposition mistake. Sarries couldn't work out an alternative.

Very best of luck Billy and hope you make a speedy recovery.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 16:24
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Freddie Burns: Bath back unhappy with Leicester Tigers departure...happy to come to us but left with not much choice by the sounds? Having said that I thought that the reports were that he didn't want to play second fiddle so I guess he could have seen it out if he really wanted?

 
Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 17:13
Well as said before I am glad he is going to play for Bath. I just hope we can build a pack and keep them fit enough to give him some good fast ball.

Ford is a hot commodity at the moment and Tigers obviously see him as essential for their development.

Freddie is just another casualty of the Mike Ford mess as are the Bath supporters.

Good riddance to Ford. I hope I never see him in a Bath shirt again.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 17:18
Quote:
Tomato Soup
Well as said before I am glad he is going to play for Bath. I just hope we can build a pack and keep them fit enough to give him some good fast ball.
Ford is a hot commodity at the moment and Tigers obviously see him as essential for their development.

Freddie is just another casualty of the Mike Ford mess as are the Bath supporters.

Good riddance to Ford. I hope I never see him in a Bath shirt again.

You have to be joking - with Priestland out you would rather see Hastings in the 10 shirt for the next few games? That's cutting off your nose to spite your face if ever I have seen it...Particularly as Hastings is also off?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 17:46
Welcome Freddie, we want/need your talents. Lets just hope he has a terrible game against us at the Clash which I doubt somehow.

Is Hastings definitely going? I must have missed the announcement?

If he was staying, in many ways, I would prefer to see him start over Ford if Priestland remains crocked. If RP is crocked for the rest of the season, Hastings will probably be in the match day squad so why not start him and bring on the 'chosen' one for the last 20 minutes or so, if needed. He might realise why so many people and players were fed up with his father's continuing playing him over Priestland even when his form went to pieces.

In view of our crucial need, like Leicester's, to win the Clash, will we risk starting a man who has a material effect on the outcome when he knows Tigers loosing , might affect their aspirations.

The Burns situation proves a contract is hardly worth the paper its written in professional sport these days, and loyalties go out the window. In the long term we may prove to have the better part of the deal as he comes wanting to be here and play, and we will certainly see more games from him, fitness allowing, than we would from the mercurially gifted George.

But as said above, it is the fallout from the Mike Ford reign which is still affecting peoples livelihoods.

Lets just hope that this draws a line under the whole situation.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 18:54
[quote Bathovalballer] Welcome Freddie, we want/need your talents. Lets just hope he has a terrible game against us at the Clash which I doubt somehow.

In view of our crucial need, like Leicester's, to win the Clash, will we risk starting a man who has a material effect on the outcome when he knows Tigers loosing , might affect their aspirations.[quote Bathovalballer]

Yes, because we really have no other realistic or sensible choice until Freddie arrives if RP is crocked and we want to win the game. I have no doubt that Ford will try his best to win.

In relation to Hastings I think you are right - no official announcement yet?

[www.scotsman.com]

I don't want to open the whole thing again but I still don't get why some people hate him so much. He's off, we got a good replacement, all the best - if he helps us win the Euro cup final and finish in the top 4 then that's ideal for everyone.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 20:18
Quote:
BathMatt53
I don't want to open the whole thing again but I still don't get why some people hate him so much. He's off, we got a good replacement, all the best - if he helps us win the Euro cup final and finish in the top 4 then that's ideal for everyone.

I'm not sure they do Matt, but there are a couple of posters on this board who are both vociferous and repetitive on the keyboard in the belief that if they shout loud enough they will get their own way, now where have i seen that tactic before?

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 21:21
Am I the only one who thinks it will be no great loss if Hastings goes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2017 21:46 by Boldngrey.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 March, 2017 21:31
Quote:
Boldngrey
Am I the only one who thinks it will be no great loss of Hastings goes?

No, have nothing against him but he isn't irreplaceable I think. All the best to the lad, I hope he develops into a good player.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 07:49
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
BathMatt53
I don't want to open the whole thing again but I still don't get why some people hate him so much. He's off, we got a good replacement, all the best - if he helps us win the Euro cup final and finish in the top 4 then that's ideal for everyone.

I'm not sure they do Matt, but there are a couple of posters on this board who are both vociferous and repetitive on the keyboard in the belief that if they shout loud enough they will get their own way, now where have i seen that tactic before?

Totally agree,, I think like many others I've changed my view of GF, Of course he has every right to leave but I find his reasons pathetic but we need to make use of him whilst he's here,

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 08:57
You feel you've got a good enough handle on his reasons to call them pathetic?

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 09:03
Quote:
Boldngrey
Am I the only one who thinks it will be no great loss if Hastings goes?

From what I've seen of Hastings of late my view is he will become better than Heathcote but not achieve the same level as Freddie

He has international aspirations and that is great so best wishes to him

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 09:50
I wasn't at all convinced by Hastings, but if Ford had made the break and immaculately timed/delayed pop pass to Denton last Saturday, Austin Healey would be preparing an entire episode of the Rugby Club devoted to the positioning of George's shoulders.

Hastings' current problem is that he needs to massively increase his range of kicking out of hand.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 09:58
Quote:
DanWiley
You feel you've got a good enough handle on his reasons to call them pathetic?
Yes.
I may very well be wrong, but I've never had a problem with drawing conclusions from the available evidence. I always (to myself at least) clarify it as being conclusions, and not absolute fact; and I always reserve the right to be wrong - but my own conclusions? absolutely.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 10:30
"I may very well be wrong, but I've never had a problem with drawing conclusions from the available evidence."

That's fine, but the evidence I see here is pretty scant. It's really doesn't go much beyond:
- His dad was sacked
- His contract allowed him to leave
- He was unhappy enough here to want to do so
- He's gone to a club where it seems he had a positive experience

Where there is little evidence, I do find it hard to draw a firm conclusion. I can't see how anyone can? I also think if you're going around calling people pathetic, you should really be convinced by what you're saying.

There is a natural follow up: what do you know about it that I don't, as i can't see enough there to call someone pathetic.

You're entitled to form an opinion, I feel entitled to at least ask how you formed it.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 10:32
I thought Hastings looked good ball in hand and made some good defensive reads but his kicking and game management aren't up to scratch, some are gifted with it where others find its something that will come with age. Mind you, its not the easiest back 3 to play against.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 10:47
Quote:
DanWiley
"I may very well be wrong, but I've never had a problem with drawing conclusions from the available evidence."
That's fine, but the evidence I see here is pretty scant. It's really doesn't go much beyond:
- His dad was sacked
- His contract allowed him to leave
- He was unhappy enough here to want to do so
- He's gone to a club where it seems he had a positive experience

Where there is little evidence, I do find it hard to draw a firm conclusion. I can't see how anyone can? I also think if you're going around calling people pathetic, you should really be convinced by what you're saying.

There is a natural follow up: what do you know about it that I don't, as i can't see enough there to call someone pathetic.

You're entitled to form an opinion, I feel entitled to at least ask how you formed it.
]
I don't in anyway hate or even dislike GF, I don't even think he's pathetic, but I do think he needs to grow up.

At the time, going to a club where your Dad was a coach (even before GG went) was a bit dodgy, a certain lack of judgement/maturity.

The 'sacking' of his dad perhaps could have been handled differently, but he deserved it by all accounts. I still think he can't handle the fact that his team mates think his Dad is an ar$ehole (I agree with them).

Then and this is admittedly clearly all rumour, the stuff about his mum, his special friend Ben Youngs etc.

He's 23 FFS!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 11:48
Quote:
Optimist
I wasn't at all convinced by Hastings, but if Ford had made the break and immaculately timed/delayed pop pass to Denton last Saturday, Austin Healey would be preparing an entire episode of the Rugby Club devoted to the positioning of George's shoulders.
Hastings' current problem is that he needs to massively increase his range of kicking out of hand.

...and his angle. He kept going so steep the poor old linesman had to keep running back up to virtually where it was kicked from every time. Hastings needs to realise that he doesn't get any points for landing the ball in Orange Grove or Pulteney Road.

George lacked maturity when he came to Bath because he was 19 and well, lacked maturity. I was throwing up in the student union at 19 and if anyone on this board chose to do anything responsible and more mature at this age (i.e. was not forced to) then you needed to get out more!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 12:39
There doesn't seem much there though that says much about his current maturity?

I don't know anything about his mum, just heard vague allusions to her. Does anyone know any more than that?

He's going to work with an old friend and he's happy about that. So would I be, who wouldn't? Is there any more to it than that?

To call him pathetic based on what I can see here is rather harsh, unless there's more to it, which is why I asked the question.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 12:43
Quote:
DanWiley

I don't know anything about his mum, just heard vague allusions to her. Does anyone know any more than that?

Not really, she doesn't by any chance live next door to BOB?

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 12:58
I hope Freddie's incredibly peeved about Leicester's treatment of him. So much so that when we play them next season he tears them a new one (Sm148)



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 19:58
Quote:
Danchinho
I hope Freddie's incredibly peeved about Leicester's treatment of him. So much so that when we play them next season he tears them a new one (Sm148)

The Ford brothers will gang up on him:

[www.leicestermercury.co.uk]

More seriously, Freddie has enjoyed his time there and the fans appear to have really taken to him, so I'm sure it will all be very civilised.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 20:25
This tells you all you need to know about George Ford's maturity.

www.bathchronicle.co.uk/daniel-evans-bath-rugby...george-ford.../story.html

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 20:36
Quote:
Boldngrey
This tells you all you need to know about George Ford's maturity.
www.bathchronicle.co.uk/daniel-evans-bath-rugby...george-ford.../story.html

Or your computer skills? (link doesn't work).

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 21:17

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 21:45
Thank you mike.


The second one.


Sadly I am not of the computer age.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 March, 2017 22:40
Quote:
Boldngrey
This tells you all you need to know about George Ford's maturity.
www.bathchronicle.co.uk/daniel-evans-bath-rugby...george-ford.../story.html

Interesting article - I missed it last month.

I still don't think that its a question of maturity, its about a guy who hates his boss enough that he wants to change his job, like thousands of people up and down the country every day. Whether you agree with his reasons (his mate Kyle being stitched up etc.) or not, the relationship between him and Bruce broke down. Now others on here may have never left a job because they hated their boss - I have and I wouldn't say it showed my immaturity, it was just never going to work, clash of personalities. I have never met Bruce but I'm guessing that a successful person like him has quite a strong one.

I know that I am never going to change the view of a number on here who think that he is cry baby who was having a sulk, but from what that article says:

He is happy to play for the coaches at Bath Rugby. He is happy to play for his team-mates.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 March, 2017 08:53
I was in Govt service for most of my life then had two jobs before retirement. Both the companies were led by (successful) muppets, but I stuck it out because I enjoyed the work.

George may think Craig behaved badly, but it was his team mates who told the enquiry his dad was at fault. Since then the club has prospered and the future looks bright.

If George can't see and accept this it shows a lack of maturity.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 March, 2017 09:09
OK we agree to disagree - I don't know enough of the actual facts around what happened and his choices for leaving other than tattle on here and some stuff in the chron. I couldn't see anything to suggest that he was / is annoyed with his team mates for snitching on his dad, just that he thinks that Bruce is an @#$%&. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt tbh which will balance the views of those on here and FB who would wanted him burned at the stake.

Interesting what you say BnG about your job - sounds like in that field you didn't have the same option as George to do the same work just somewhere else, possibly for more cash? (which is what I did). Each to their own.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 March, 2017 09:13
Yes Bathmatt, we could go on forever, my take is that Bruce was happy to stand by MF despite the poor season, but when it became clear that the players did not want him and the level of discontent, he made the right decision.

I also believe that other non work related factors did not help things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2017 16:37 by woodpecker.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 March, 2017 16:35
Looks as if England might be relying upon flaky Fords kicking if Farrell is not fit. Should be interesting.

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 March, 2017 17:48
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Looks as if England might be relying upon flaky Fords kicking if Farrell is not fit. Should be interesting.


Daly is in the team to fall back on, just in case Ford can't handle the pressure kicks

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
11 March, 2017 01:49
Seems the Tigers have gone and signed two Fords - brother Joe from Leeds. I wonder whether he'll be happy to get 2 minutes off the bench now and again!

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
11 March, 2017 04:03
Quote:
Optimist
Seems the Tigers have gone and signed two Fords - brother Joe from Leeds. I wonder whether he'll be happy to get 2 minutes off the bench now and again!

Whatever is needed to make George feel loved? Only one more and the Tigs have got the set.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
14 March, 2017 02:40
Didn't MofTM Freddie look the biz against Sarries? I do have great hopes of what he can bring to Bath, both as a playmaker and goal kicker.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
14 March, 2017 13:15
It was in the Anglo-Welsh cup. Cool your jets.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
14 March, 2017 15:44
Quote:
hasta
It was in the Anglo-Welsh cup. Cool your jets.
Now now Hasta - BoB just said a good thing about someone who A] doesn't play for Exeter; and B] is going to play for Bath.
This is the sort of behaviour we should be encouraging... though I doubt it'll last long past Freddie's first photo in a Bath shirt.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
Garbageman (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
14 March, 2017 18:08
Yeah right up to the point where BoB decides FB isn't trying hard enough

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
14 March, 2017 23:21
Sorry guys to disappoint but I truly believe we have got the best of outcomes. Yes we have lost a very talented player (who has won us nothing) and can be flaky, but is always going to miss nearly half our games away with England.

Apart from that, George also had his issues with the club, well documented on this board, and he really does not want to be here.

Along comes a Bath born talent, who slipped through our fingers once, who is truly motivated by his 'coming home'. Freddie is a proven performer at the highest level, having actually won things with Leicester. More experience, more potential game time, very solid/reliable performer (has been seen good enough to play for England), likes to take the ball to the defence line, passes and tackles well and is an 80% kicker, and allegedly comes with a big fat dowry. I cannot see the down side.

And the dreadful bad taste left by family Ford will be removed once and for all.

I shall be doing my utmost to ensure he gets as much of my and others support as possible as he is our and the club's future. That looks good to me.

Now to find some grunt in the forwards and a teak tough tight head.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2017 23:46 by Bathovalballer.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 08:14
Firstly, Freddie didn’t slip through our fingers. He chose to go so he wasn’t proud to wear the BB&W.

Secondly he wasn’t ‘truly motivated by his 'coming home’. If you read the post[www.rugbynetwork.net] on the Dark Site you will see Leicester just kicked him out. So he’s making the best of a bad job.

Never the less I believe he will be an asset.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2017 08:20 by Boldngrey.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 10:38
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.

Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2017 10:39 by OutsideBath.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 10:56
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

If you look at 10 defence then we will be better with Burns. Ford is the better attacker off a dominant pack obviously (Ugo said on Mondays R5 podcast he thinks that he is the best in Europe). Add in the International availability (possibly counterbalanced by FB getting himself concussed a few times a year) and we did OK.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 10:57
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

light year: a unit of astronomical distance equivalent to the distance that light travels in one year, which is 9.4607 × 1012 km (nearly 6 million million miles).

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 10:58
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

I actually agree with BoB to be wholly honest with you..

Ford is an excellent distributor, puts players in spaces and kicks very well out of hand! He has the potential to be world class, provided his pack is moving forward and he does not have to kick for goal as is the case with England.

We are not England though - we are Bath rugby club. As a club side therefore I legitimately believe we have got the better end of this deal as Ford misses, on average a minimum of 5 weeks for the autumn internationals and 7 weeks for the 6 Nations each season.That's 13 games or so he misses each year, without including potential injury.

Now for the Aviva Premiership season there are 22 regular rounds, 6 European games and 6 Anglo-Welsh games without getting further than the groups or into the semi's for AP. That's 34 games per season. I'm no mathlete but Ford misses over a third of our regular season games each year!!

Freddie Burns on the other hand is not currently an England EPS member, but is a very good domestic and European cup fly half standard (as recently as last year started at 10 in the Champions cup semi against Racing and was the best player for Leicester whilst on the pitch) who will be available throughout the entire season - injury permitting as always.

He kicks better from hand each time I see him, able to step back and put the team in the right areas when needed. He distributes well and is particularly effective at wide cut out passes putting outside backs e.g. your JJ's, Watson's and Roko's into space whilst also maintaining a carrying threat himself which holds the oppositions midfield from just drifting across.

He is a great signing imo and although we have lost Ford who is fantastic we have gained another excellent player who's on less money and happy to play here. Both he and Bath feel a little scorned by this whole Ford back to leicester debacle and I hope to see him use that to tear up the AP and Champions cup for us next season to show Leicester what they have lost and prove to us he's a top player and one who can perform as well as Ford for Bath if not, bring something different and potentially better in terms of getting our backline moving again!

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 11:44
I think it's quite logical to regret losing George - who, as Big Dog says has world class potential (if not there already)- but still believe that Bath have done well out of the deal - for all the reasons BD quotes.

It does not have to be a binary choice - one is great therefore the other is terrible!.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 12:19
I think both teams have done OK out of this deal, but not great. Bath have lost a fantastic player, albeit one with flaws and who had fallen out with the owner. Tigers have gained that player - but acted pretty shabbily towards their existing employee.

No real way to account for this until another season or two has progressed. My point is more that the Anglo Welsh Cup is a joke and drawing any conclusions from it is foolish.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 12:34
Whether it is ' a joke' competition or not, I personally would like to see Bath win it. Silverware is always good and adds belief and confidence to any squad and proves to everyone the club is going in the right direction.

If it was with a side of mainly back up players giving them meaningful game time, even better. With our present playing squad, I cannot see it happening.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 12:51
I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with BoB again... SOMEWHAT.

I too would like us to win the AW Cup as silverware is silverware and it is a great competition for giving youngsters game time. Unfortunately for us our starting XV for most games has been full of youngsters as there has been no other options!

They will have learnt a great deal though this year and actually if we pretend for a second that our 1st XV are all fit and available we could have 2nd XV that looks like the following which could legit challenge in the AW cup.

15. Homer/Atkins
14. Brew
13. Fruean
12. Max Clark
11. Wilson
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Chris Cook/ Will Homer

8. Z Mercer
7. Underhill
6. Ellis
5. Ewels
4. Stooke
3. Lahiff
2. Batty/Walker (unsure who 1st/2/3rd choice is atm! But on this season Dunn is no.1?)
1. Auterac

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 15:15
Remember that we should have a big euro cup to negotiate next year. Most of those forwards you mention above are close to 1st team especially when accounting for those at internationals. Will fruean even be here?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 15:50
We are not in the Anglo Welsh cup though???

Neither are Leicester, we are in the Euro Cup though.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 16:07
Quote:
Boldngrey
Firstly, Freddie didn’t slip through our fingers. He chose to go so he wasn’t proud to wear the BB&W.
Secondly he wasn’t ‘truly motivated by his 'coming home’. If you read the post[www.rugbynetwork.net] on the Dark Site you will see Leicester just kicked him out. So he’s making the best of a bad job.

That is such a harsh, myopic perception

A more reasoned perspective would read the words

"I am really happy but I would be lying if I said I was happy with how it came about," Burns told BBC Radio Leicester.

"I had a year on my contract. I'm a man of integrity and wanted to see it out."

and come to a very different interpretation - just a suggestion

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 17:31
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
Boldngrey
Firstly, Freddie didn’t slip through our fingers. He chose to go so he wasn’t proud to wear the BB&W.
Secondly he wasn’t ‘truly motivated by his 'coming home’. If you read the post[www.rugbynetwork.net] on the Dark Site you will see Leicester just kicked him out. So he’s making the best of a bad job.

That is such a harsh, myopic perception

A more reasoned perspective would read the words

"I am really happy but I would be lying if I said I was happy with how it came about," Burns told BBC Radio Leicester.

"I had a year on my contract. I'm a man of integrity and wanted to see it out."

and come to a very different interpretation - just a suggestion


Re-read the thread on the Dark Site and you will se a significant no of Leics fans think their club behaved disgracefully.

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 17:54
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

In which games? It feels like Ford has hardly played for us this season. And I think we've lost most of those he's played in.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 18:54
Quote:
recman
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

In which games? It feels like Ford has hardly played for us this season. And I think we've lost most of those he's played in.
Ahhh, that classic mix-up of fact vs opinion


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 21:20
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
recman
Quote:
OutsideBath
Ford is light years better than Burns and Tigers definitely got the best of this deal.
Whatever way you look at it we will be weaker at 10 for next season.

In which games? It feels like Ford has hardly played for us this season. And I think we've lost most of those he's played in.
Ahhh, that classic mix-up of fact vs opinion

Here's an opinion for you. You may well argue that 13 games out of 27 doesn't qualify as "hardly any", but it's not great, is it? Not great at all.

If it was announced at the start of the season that your star fly half is going to play only half the games, would you be happy with that? Is he worth it? Has he been worth it this season?

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 21:31
No, No and No, see my earlier comment.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
15 March, 2017 22:08
Quote:
Huxster
No, No and No, see my earlier comment.

Where, it's not on this page?

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 08:34
Quote:
Huxster
No, No and No, see my earlier comment.

Doesn't it depend entirely on the quality of your second choice

Sarries had Hodgson to see them through the AP games that Farrell missed on international duty knowing they could bring in their star player for the big Euro and end of season/play off matches

I think the vast majority of Sarries' fans would have been very happy with that set up

That's the challenge for Tiggers, finding their equivalent of a Hodgson

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 08:42
Wouldn't that be Joe Ford then?

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 08:46
Joe Ford - BOGOF?

And dad to take care of the management.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2017 08:47 by Boldngrey.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 08:48
Quote:
Boldngrey
Joe Ford - BOGOF?
And dad to take care of the management.

Surely they can find something for his mum to do..

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 08:58
She been knitting red, green and white socks for ages.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 09:49
Quote:
shipwrecked
Wouldn't that be Joe Ford then?

Had missed that one, very decent back up for sure - could work well provided there are no hidden sibling rivalry issues

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 16:15
Is it really decent back up? Compared to their current situation, Joe is barely a starter in the championship.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 16:29
I suspect that with GF away quite a bit Joe will be back up to an actual back up.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 16:38
Don't see why Joe would make this move...

It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 19:58
Quote:
Big Dog
Don't see why Joe would make this move...
It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

Or he might be a mature, well balanced individual, who is realistic about his talents, is happy for his brother's success and delighted to be playing with him at a Premiership club.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 20:00
He would not be playing with him though. Training with him / having lunch with him sure. I think that I would rather play games if I was good enough to be a professional.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
16 March, 2017 23:09
Quote:
BathMatt53
He would not be playing with him though. Training with him / having lunch with him sure. I think that I would rather play games if I was good enough to be a professional.

I imagine Joe Ford thinks he will be in the frame to start during the 13+ weeks of the season that his brother will be absent with England. Seems like a reasonable plan to me and it'll save the Tigs the printing costs for the 10 shirt. Win-win.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 March, 2017 07:18
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Big Dog
Don't see why Joe would make this move...
It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

Or he might be a mature, well balanced individual, who is realistic about his talents, is happy for his brother's success and delighted to be playing with him at a Premiership club.

Joe, you obviously do not have a younger, more successful brother

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 March, 2017 08:45
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Big Dog
Don't see why Joe would make this move...
It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

Or he might be a mature, well balanced individual, who is realistic about his talents, is happy for his brother's success and delighted to be playing with him at a Premiership club.

Joe, you obviously do not have a younger, more successful brother

Oddly enough, at least in rugby terms, I do...

smiling smiley



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 March, 2017 14:11
I see Freddie is starting for Tigers against Exeter in the AW Cup Final. Lets see how he goes as I believe he is very focused on leaving Tigers with silverware. Lets just hope he brings the same to us in the coming seasons.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
17 March, 2017 17:32
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Big Dog
Don't see why Joe would make this move...
It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

Or he might be a mature, well balanced individual, who is realistic about his talents, is happy for his brother's success and delighted to be playing with him at a Premiership club.

Joe, you obviously do not have a younger, more successful brother

Oddly enough, at least in rugby terms, I do...

smiling smiley

Lol - so that's where the mature, well balanced individual who is realistic about his talents etc bit comes from - the Fords and the Fanatics should really get together some time (Sm14)

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
18 March, 2017 02:04
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Big Dog
Don't see why Joe would make this move...
It must be so demoralising to be backup to a backup whilst your brother is first choice at the club and also leading England on a record run of successive victories! It's lucky Leicester play in green if he does join....

Or he might be a mature, well balanced individual, who is realistic about his talents, is happy for his brother's success and delighted to be playing with him at a Premiership club.

Joe, you obviously do not have a younger, more successful brother

Oddly enough, at least in rugby terms, I do...

smiling smiley

Lol - so that's where the mature, well balanced individual who is realistic about his talents etc bit comes from - the Fords and the Fanatics should really get together some time (Sm14)

Best. Humblebrag. Ever.

smiling smiley



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
19 March, 2017 22:38
Whatever reception George gets when he returns to the Rec (polite but unenthusiastic from me), it is going to pale next to the love Freddie is going to get when he goes back to Leicester.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
19 March, 2017 23:25
Yes. Thought Freddie had a good game today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2017 23:26 by Boldngrey.

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 00:09
Freddie bossed that game today. Big fan of the exe 9, though, and thought ewers was unbelievable. Would love to see him have a shot for England, though I am a robshaw fan

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 06:53
Someone on the Tigers board said they thought he would be staying with them & quoted Ben Kay as implying that, I hope the contract is all done & dusted,

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 07:52
Wishful thinking, its on the offy Burns joins Bath

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 08:00
On the basis that it was reported that him joining us reduced the George fee I would be surprised.

 
MESSAGES->author
Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 09:02
Quote:
shipwrecked
Wishful thinking, its on the offy Burns joins Bath

So was Eastmond's contract renewal.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 09:10
Also after all the comments he made about how excited he was returning to play for his home town & that he didn't like the way Leicester dealt with his departure it would be a massive about turn. I think it appears increasingly likely he would be first choice with us but definitely second choice st Leicester. Nevertheless what did Kay actually say???

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 09:14
Can't take Ben Kay seriously when he drops a scoring pass in the World Cup final and laughs about it!

But what did he say, or imply?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 09:28
The post was from Seal on 19th March & he said "From the way Kay was speaking (remember he's a board member) & things we've heard, I think he's probably staying"

 
Stopsy
Stopsy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 09:44
I believe that was in relation to Harry Thacker, not Freddie.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 10:22
Look forward to Freddie kicking goals and putting our players through holes when he's back in Bath next season!

He's gone the long route and played for two of our biggest rivals to get here but for the lad to be playing for his hometown club is great! After his performance in the LV final I am very optimistic too!!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 13:21
I sincerely hope (and pray) he is coming. If he didn't it would leave a big hole to fill and, on yesterday's showing playing in difficult windy conditions, he has got class, both in his kicking game off the tee and from hand, plenty of vision, passed well and was committed to tackling. Exactly what we need for most of a season.

Conversely, Leicester are losing the very able Williams, have gained the mercurial George (for about 60% of their games) and signed another Ford as back up. As I have said before, from the club's point of view and potential player availability in particular, Bath IMV have the better of the deal as we have been told.

We want you Freddie, and Leicester only appear to be using you. Come home, you know it makes sense.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 13:52
Quote:
Stopsy
I believe that was in relation to Harry Thacker, not Freddie.

Yes I it like that too. Burns is definitely coming to us.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 17:44
Possibly this should be on another thread.

Announced today, Mike Ford out of work at season's end as Galthier to take over at Toulon next season.

Just wonder if he fancies a trip over to the East Midlands and join his family again?

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