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bathhawk
bathhawk (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 18:32
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Possibly this should be on another thread.
Announced today, Mike Ford out of work at season's end as Galthier to take over at Toulon next season.

Just wonder if he fancies a trip over to the East Midlands and join his family again?

He probably does. Tiggers won't.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 19:09
Quote:
bathhawk
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Possibly this should be on another thread.
Announced today, Mike Ford out of work at season's end as Galthier to take over at Toulon next season.

Just wonder if he fancies a trip over to the East Midlands and join his family again?

He probably does. Tiggers won't.

Surely they have Lancaster lined up?

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 19:11
Quote:
P G Tips
Quote:
bathhawk
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Possibly this should be on another thread.
Announced today, Mike Ford out of work at season's end as Galthier to take over at Toulon next season.

Just wonder if he fancies a trip over to the East Midlands and join his family again?

He probably does. Tiggers won't.

Surely they have Lancaster lined up?

PG

It seems not.

[www.bbc.co.uk]



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 19:25
And we will not be able to play George in one of Sarries, Brive, Tigers or Worcs:

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

Its a shame Jack Walker isn't available to fill in at 10 (or 15) now we have all these Hookers.

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
20 March, 2017 22:38
Quote:
BathMatt53
And we will not be able to play George in one of Sarries, Brive, Tigers or Worcs:

Hopefully the occasionally fit Priestland will be able to cover adequately for one match.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 00:06
Oh dear. What will family Ford do now? And how will George take his career to the next level without Daddy's guidance and being told what to do by the mad Irishman Geordan Murphy and a spikey Australian like O'Connor?

Never mind he can always fall back on Eddie and his henchmen. Oh hang on Eddie still has not appointed a full time attack coach IIRR. Could Mike Ford do that, or would Eddie be too worried about being removed after being undermined by the Brutus like Ford and his scheming?

 
MESSAGES->author
Bathbadger (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 00:27
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Oh dear. What will family Ford do now? And how will George take his career to the next level without Daddy's guidance and being told what to do by the mad Irishman Geordan Murphy and a spikey Australian like O'Connor?
Never mind he can always fall back on Eddie and his henchmen. Oh hang on Eddie still has not appointed a full time attack coach IIRR. Could Mike Ford do that, or would Eddie be too worried about being removed after being undermined by the Brutus like Ford and his scheming?

Tigers still have a DOR role to announce yet!



Cheers,

Rich

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 08:18
Did Mike Ford going to tiggers ever really exist beyond the imagination?

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 08:35
Probably as much 'hope' as 'imagination'.

 
MESSAGES->author
plong (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 10:49
Matt O'Connor returning with Aaron Mauger getting the shepherd's crook!



Adopted Players
2017-18: Sam Underhill
2016-17: Will Homer

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 12:03
p.s. from earlier in the thread re. Ford bros.
There is a third son - very evident when his father was Bath DoR/coach - during matches, jumping up and down on the touchline, gesturing to officials - and other, some would say nepotistic privileges such as travelling on the coach to Away games etc. I wonder how long before he ends up at the same club as his father?

I doubt Eddie, Hatley and Borthwick would be giving MF a call - but as we all observe from another planet outside the orbit of a rather small incestuous world of professional rugby, who knows?!



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 15:43
Tigers have appointed Ged Glynn as D of R. No way in for MF unless he takes on an attack or forwards coach role (both currently open at Welford Road). He just might of course, to maintain his family connections, and earn some money. Then of course he could start worming his way in, and then look out Leicester coaching/management staff......

 
MESSAGES->author
Bathbadger (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
21 March, 2017 18:16
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Tigers have appointed Ged Glynn as D of R. No way in for MF unless he takes on an attack or forwards coach role (both currently open at Welford Road). He just might of course, to maintain his family connections, and earn some money. Then of course he could start worming his way in, and then look out Leicester coaching/management staff......

Don't think Glynn has been announced yet has it?



Cheers,

Rich

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
22 March, 2017 13:57
I feel if we had Freddie this weekend, we would stand a better chance of getting something out of the Saracens game. He plays better behind a struggling pack than GF and his form (see last weekend) was excellent, with little ball to play with.

Ah well, suppose we can only hope our forwards get on top and George remembers how we play and more importantly kicks his goals.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
22 March, 2017 14:19
George is marginal for the Lions. He has every incentive to play well. And he is nothing if not highly focused on what it takes to fulfil his personal goals. If he plays, he'll play well. At this stage of proceedings I don't really care whether his motivation is club or personal as long as it translates into a benefit for Bath Rugby.

If he is directly opposite Faz it will be fascinating - particularly as George may well be on the back foot.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
22 March, 2017 14:23
Interesting to see if his best mate George gets similar treatment to Sexton

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
25 March, 2017 01:27
Well I wonder if Farrell is concerned with facing George, which I very much doubt he is.

I will be avidly watching Saints v Leicester and see how Freddie goes. I believe Tigers will win this and set themselves up for the Clash (or should it be the Crash for Cash?)!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
25 March, 2017 09:19
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Well I wonder if Farrell is concerned with facing George, which I very much doubt he is.
I will be avidly watching Saints v Leicester and see how Freddie goes. I believe Tigers will win this and set themselves up for the Clash (or should it be the Crash for Cash?)!

I knew that I should have taken my anti-depressants before logging on this morning. Its all just one big tale of woe and misfortune supporting Bath isn't it. (er...no its not actually, we have a good team and are doing pretty well in the league).

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
26 March, 2017 22:46
Did people think Freddie wanted to win for his team on Saturday? Did anyone think he didn't show commitment to the Leicester cause?

Compare that performance with our incumbent number 10's on Sunday, and comment on the differences. I am intrigued at what I saw, both from professional well paid top class players.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 06:47
Be specific. I can think of the Maitland try where arguably Ford could have done more, but honestly it looked like the bounce beat him. Other than that... Both he and Farrell had a bad day with the boot... Neither did anything particularly special.

Burns is currently on form, but also made mistakes, his team won, but I'd bet he would get an unjust proportion of the slating had his entire team been well and truly thumped.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 07:47
Quote:
Optimist
George is marginal for the Lions. He has every incentive to play well. And he is nothing if not highly focused on what it takes to fulfil his personal goals. If he plays, he'll play well. At this stage of proceedings I don't really care whether his motivation is club or personal as long as it translates into a benefit for Bath Rugby.
If he is directly opposite Faz it will be fascinating - particularly as George may well be on the back foot.

Well after yesterday Ford can kiss goodbye to his chances of the Lions tour.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 08:03
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Did people think Freddie wanted to win for his team on Saturday? Did anyone think he didn't show commitment to the Leicester cause?
Compare that performance with our incumbent number 10's on Sunday, and comment on the differences. I am intrigued at what I saw, both from professional well paid top class players.




Hastings came on for Ford.

He's off to Glasgow so did he look interested?

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 08:06
Quote:
DanWiley
Be specific. I can think of the Maitland try where arguably Ford could have done more, but honestly it looked like the bounce beat him. Other than that... Both he and Farrell had a bad day with the boot... Neither did anything particularly special.

1. Pumped 2 kicks directly into touch conceding significant territory.
2. Grabbed the ball with misguided overconfidence just before half time and then missed the penalty ( i suspect most of us were screaming at the TV, scrum or line out, don't take the kick)
3. Took on a long range kick in the first half that we all new he wouldn't get (more overconfidence)
4. Didn't get his back line moving
5. Showed all the desire and aggression of a pansy when defending the Maitland try.

On the positive side he helped setup our only try, he didn't stop working, and gave his best to try and spark things second half.

To say Farrell didn't do anything special when his team ran riot and scored 50+ points against us is a little disingenuous.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 10:29
"Compare that performance with our incumbent number 10's on Sunday, and comment on the differences. "

"1. Pumped 2 kicks directly into touch conceding significant territory. "

I think Burns did do this. One for Ford's was about a foot away from being a terrific kick, to said "pumped" is also being rather disingenuous.

"2. Grabbed the ball with misguided overconfidence just before half time and then missed the penalty ( i suspect most of us were screaming at the TV, scrum or line out, don't take the kick) "

Kick for goal was the the right choice, even if you want to argue about that it was certainly a reasonable choice.

"3. Took on a long range kick in the first half that we all new he wouldn't get (more overconfidence) "

It was pretty speculative. Probably going to miss. But in a choice between a possible 3 points and receiving the ball in their half if not and a lineout in their half. Honstly, it doesn't seem like a bad choice.


"4. Didn't get his back line moving "

We got a nice try against one of the meanest defenses. Other than that the entire team looked poor.

"5. Showed all the desire and aggression of a pansy when defending the Maitland try. "
yes, he should have looked more aggressive when being beaten by the ball. It would have made all the difference.

I bet you, when Tiggers get beaten by that sort of score line (it happens to every team), they will make a scapegoat of a player and if there's one heading to a rival I bet he'll be first in line.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 10:50
"2. Grabbed the ball with misguided overconfidence just before half time and then missed the penalty ( i suspect most of us were screaming at the TV, scrum or line out, don't take the kick) "

Kick for goal was the the right choice, even if you want to argue about that it was certainly a reasonable choice.'


If we'd taken another scrum, it would have been in almost the identical position from which the earlier Watson try was scored. If you were going to pick a place from which you might score a try, it's practically the sweetest sweet spot on the pitch - 1/3rd of the pitch blind-side, 2/3rds of the pitch open side, 5 metres out - and a position for which our backs are almost uniquely qualified - Ford/Joseph/Watson/Roko/Banahan is just about the perfect permutation of outside backs to attack from that position. But Ford signalled for the posts practically before anyone had a chance to debate it. To me, he was sending a message to Eddie Jones about how confident he is in his kicking - in the context of the match it was an absolutely abysmal decision.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 11:08
GF was poor, there's no escaping that, but I'm not sure he is being scapegoated because there was plenty of other poor performances.

I do think the kick at goal was the wrong decision. Not because we were certain to score but because it would have signalled a belief in the team that has been sorely lacking.

It was an individual decision made at a time where the team could have done with a collective vote of confidence.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 11:11
Given he missed it and we then committed 3 stupid offences in a row and then conceded a try to take us from potentially leading into halftime to be 17-10 I'd say it was the worst decision we made all match.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 12:00
Yes, in retrospect. But given our position on the field I bet I can find examples of many on here criticising the decision not to kick.


"If we'd taken another scrum, it would have been in almost the identical position from which the earlier Watson try was scored. If you were going to pick a place from which you might score a try, it's practically the sweetest sweet spot on the pitch - 1/3rd of the pitch blind-side, 2/3rds of the pitch open side, 5 metres out - and a position for which our backs are almost uniquely qualified"

Given what happened at the next scrum, would you really have not criticised had we taken that option and done the same? You might find you are in a minority there.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 12:46
"You might find you are in a minority there"

What's the relevance of that? This is a forum for opinion, not a quantitative survey.

But the decision to kick for goal was wrong, whichever way you look at it.

Even if George had got the kick - and I was confident enough to predict he would miss it to text precisely that to a friend - we'd have been 13-12 up. Would that have given anyone the tiniest expectation that we would win the game? But if we'd scored a try, and potentially gone into half-time 17-12 up, that could have genuinely galvanized the team. It's all about seizing the moment. Two years ago, George would probably have taken a quick tap in that position. It's a real shame what has happened to him since the day Sarries took the wind out of our sales at Twickenham.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 14:24
Totally with you and Hasta on this one Opti

We had played some decent rugby leading up to it, the scrum was looking good and we were starting to believe in ourselves

From any perspective it was a difficult kick that at best would have nudged us in front and facing a tricky couple of mins as Sarries would kick deep to us from the restart

It seemed to me that George had to show that he was being a leader by taking on a tough task that proved he was acting out of selfless responsibility in best interests of the team - leading from the front and putting his team in front - probably a good example where the co-captaincy thing doesn't work

To anyone else the kick to the corner was the 'no-brainer' it would put pressure on Sarries and give the forwards a good opportunity to put one over the wolfpack and leave the pitch at HT following a kick for a 17 - 10 lead

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 14:49
"From any perspective it was a difficult kick"

Really? Remind me where it was. From memory the right side of the 10m line and somewhere between the 5m and 15m. Tricky but a shot at goal all day long for a first choice kicker unless you've a reason or a need to kick to the corner.


This article suggests it was on the 22, but that's closer than I recall. I can't watch the highlights at work, but if someone could...

[www.independent.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 14:56
It was a bad miss.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 15:05
I agree it was a bad miss, but not a bad decision.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 15:29
It was a debatable decision. Having started poorly but come right back into the game it was an indication of weakness. On the principle of 'do what the opposition least want you to do' it was a bad decision.

It was, more importantly, a bad mistake compounded by three subsequent bad mistakes in very quick succession. It was an example of poor play, poor focus and poor teamwork.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 15:47
Quote:
hasta
It was an example of poor play, poor focus and poor teamwork.

This just about sums up the last few months of our season.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 15:52
It was just to the left of the 15-metre line to the left of the posts (and entirely up to him how far back he took it because the pen was awarded 5 or so metres from their tryline) - it's an area that George seems to have a bit of a problem with. He missed a kick for England there after Faz went off in one of the AIs, and iirc one against Newcastle. For an AV kicker, on a windless day it's probably a 95% kick. The wind was clearly a bit of a problem - but i'd refer you to Freddie Burns' various 40 metre efforts on a similarly windy day the week before.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 15:58
"Having started poorly but come right back into the game it was an indication of weakness. On the principle of 'do what the opposition least want you to do' it was a bad decision. "

We can only say that with hindsight. If I had a lineout jumper like Mario, who nicked our ball several times, I'd be reasonably happy with someone giving up the chance of 3 for a kick to the corner. We gave away a penalty at our next scrum so I'd be pretty happy with that outcome as well if I were Sarries. Both of those would be seen as a sign of weakness as well, "they don't want to kick at goal, even near our 22m, and they just @#$%& away possession from the resulting pen. Great. Hands in rucks lads, they can't hurt us."

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 16:03
I don't deny it was a bad miss, but this doesn't describe it:

"Grabbed the ball with misguided overconfidence just before half time and then missed the penalty ( i suspect most of us were screaming at the TV, scrum or line out, don't take the kick) "

It was a kick a kicker should want to take and should feel they should get and in many circumstances (not unreasonably in these) taking those 3 would be the right thing to do. It wasn't misguided and it wasn't overconfident.

We might well have been screaming at the TV, the number fans screaming at the TV is a bad metric on which to make such decisions.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 18:55
Quote:
DanWiley
It was a kick a kicker should want to take and should feel they should get and in many circumstances (not unreasonably in these) taking those 3 would be the right thing to do. It wasn't misguided and it wasn't overconfident.

Completely agree in George's head it was the right thing to do and I would have thought exactly the same in George's boots but exactly why the skipper should have said, thanks George but we're going into the corner. A better player would have asked his skipper if he wanted the 3 points - that still shows self-confidence but allows someone else to make a more effective, objective decision

With George as co-captain taking the [his] decision clearly his co-captain couldn't over-rule him

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 19:41
'we're going into the corner' - why the obsession with kicking to the corner these days? The scrum was absolutely perfectly placed. The pen was awarded 5 metres from the line, so a tap and go from a forward would have taken away all the lottery elements of scrum/lineout and set up an attacking position from which it ought to be difficult not to either score or draw another penalty and a possible yellow card.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
27 March, 2017 19:46
Quote:
Optimist
'we're going into the corner' - why the obsession with kicking to the corner these days? The scrum was absolutely perfectly placed. The pen was awarded 5 metres from the line, so a tap and go from a forward would have taken away all the lottery elements of scrum/lineout and set up an attacking position from which it ought to be difficult not to either score or draw another penalty and a possible yellow card.

Interesting... But as we saw with England, it is rare for players to appraise the situation that analytically.

Likely they are coached into believing there are two or three options and, in this case, 'coach on the field' took the decision.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2017 19:49 by Substitute.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
28 March, 2017 07:11
Quote:
Optimist
'we're going into the corner' - why the obsession with kicking to the corner these days? The scrum was absolutely perfectly placed. The pen was awarded 5 metres from the line, so a tap and go from a forward would have taken away all the lottery elements of scrum/lineout and set up an attacking position from which it ought to be difficult not to either score or draw another penalty and a possible yellow card.

Fine, no problem with that if the 'skipper' had taken it as the best attacking option rather than George simply taking it on his shoulders as co-captain and bending to the need to be seen to leading from the front, doing it for the team

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
28 March, 2017 10:21
The situation shows up the paucity of the co captain thing. We need a proper leader on the field, possibly in the second row and I personally still believe Atters could be the man.

George by his stated not wanting to be at Bath should have nothing to do with leading the side. What if against Tigers in the Clash, he decides at the death to do something similar when we are trailing by a few points, would he be overly concerned about taking the right option?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
28 March, 2017 10:26
Agree with you Bob, the co-captain seemed like a means to develop a leadership group. Southern hemisphere coaches generally don't think much of the ability of local players to lead through instinctively good decision-making under pressure. I'm all for developing that as part of the general squad development - but do it by dropping them in the middle of Dartmoor in the middle of the night with no mobile phone, not by some flaky co-captaincy concept. Doesn't work. Drop it. Now.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
28 March, 2017 12:52
Quote:
Optimist
do it by dropping them in the middle of Dartmoor in the middle of the night

It would need somewhere more scary than that.

Gloucester?

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
28 March, 2017 13:41
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
Optimist
do it by dropping them in the middle of Dartmoor in the middle of the night

It would need somewhere more scary than that.

Gloucester?

Forest of Dean, ever played the likes of Cinderford, Drybrook or Berry Hill? And if that's not scary enough wait til you meet the locals in the clubhouse - you sense the duelling banjos warming up from the changing rooms

 
MESSAGES->author
Widcombe Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 07:16
Interesting talk on the Flats & Shanks podcast this week. Mauger didn't want to sign Ford, was very happy with Burns and thought the money was best spent elsewhere.
Flats now thinks Bath have the better of the deal

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 07:38
Quote:
Widcombe Boy
Interesting talk on the Flats & Shanks podcast this week. Mauger didn't want to sign Ford, was very happy with Burns and thought the money was best spent elsewhere.
Flats now thinks Bath have the better of the deal

Haven't heard the podcast yet but I am a big fan of Ford, however, I am beginning to think sides have worked out a strategy when they play him. Piling into his channel to tire him out, seems to work, when was the last time he made a break? Not sure the tackling and wait for the cavalry to arrive works to well now as he concedes quite a lot of ground doing that.

Freddie's extra physicality might well make a difference.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 08:30
George's contract issues and consequent struggles with consistency are a real risk to him fulfilling his potential.

He may kick on at Tigers to be a world class player. Equally he could take time to fit into a new team who are adjusting to a new coach.

Time will tell.

Flats may be right.

PG

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 09:52
Personally I believe Bath have got the best of the deal. Admittedly George is potentially World Class and on his day, a very effective attacker and organiser. But he does have very inconsistent days as well.

IMO Freddie may not have George's talents but he is far more consistent, seems to get his line going well, and hopefully will be available to us more than GF. Freddie is a better goal kicker as well.

More importantly, Freddie wants to play for Bath and has no hang ups about the club like George has, and the fact that the Ford factor is being removed from the club for good, is IMO a huge plus. It is a team game and not just about one slightly immature young man.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 10:12
Quote:
Bathovalballer
More importantly, Freddie wants to play for Bath and has no hang ups about the club like George has, and the fact that the Ford factor is being removed from the club for good, is IMO a huge plus. It is a team game and not just about one slightly immature young man.

Whilst I am more and more pleased we've signed Freddie based on his current form, I don't necessarily agree your comment is necessarily true, BoB.

He left us having become disillusioned with his prospects here, vowing never to return. He then spent five or six years at two clubs at whose core is an inherent dislike of Bath, so whatever love or loyalty he felt for us will have long since evaporated. I don't think Freddie ever wanted to leave Tigers; not only is he happy there, he's also really loved by the fan base, who rate him very highly.

I am certain we can re-ignite his passion for the club, and he will become an integral part of our squad for many a long year, but his coming to us has been forced, and I reckon he'd much rather be staying put if he had his way.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 10:26
"He left us having become disillusioned with his prospects here, vowing never to return"

What's your source for that?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 10:50
I have to say it was widely rumoured at the time, including on here. Whether it is true or not is another thing but I don't think it actually matters, all but the very loyalist players move clubs when it suits them. if he really did have a dislike for us, he wouldn't be coming. Worst, and most likely, case is that coming for the "money" and because of the situation just like every other player.

In terms of consistency, it seems a little unfair to compare, Freddie is played very well at his current club, but that's far from always been the case and might not be in future. Go back a couple of seasons and Ford seemed to have nailed his daemons. Given the choice between Ford of two seasons ago and, pretty much anyone else, there's little to think about.

In a final I'd still rather have Ford.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 10:53
Okay, you have me. I'm citing things I'd heard rather than cast iron sources, but I don't think I am wrong in what I've said about his leaving because he didn't think he stood a chance with us at the time.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 11:24
Quote:
DanWiley
In a final I'd still rather have Ford.

Only with his head right and with Leigh Halfpenny doing the kicking though!

As a rider I'd add he would need to have got us there in the first place, ignoring the personal dislike some have for GF, FB will add team stability next season and its the team identity we are missing at present.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 11:26
"leaving because he didn't think he stood a chance with us at the time"

That's closer to the truth, and diametrically opposed to what you initially said. Remember Freddie was a Beechen Cliff boy in the days when getting into Bath's Academy basically comprised of someone ringing up some Bath old boy at Millfield or Bryanston and saying, 'who are you sending up this week old chap?'.

The fact that a Bath boy went up and won over the Shed, and that Richard Cockerill saw enough about him to take him to Tigers tells me everything I want to know about whether he is self-reliant and mentally tough.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 14:26
He left because Olly Barkley poached him for Glaws.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 14:31
Quote:
Optimist
Remember Freddie was a Beechen Cliff boy in the days when getting into Bath's Academy basically comprised of someone ringing up some Bath old boy at Millfield or Bryanston and saying, 'who are you sending up this week old chap?'.
The fact that a Bath boy went up and won over the Shed, and that Richard Cockerill saw enough about him to take him to Tigers tells me everything I want to know about whether he is self-reliant and mentally tough.

I suspect Bath's academy is not much more diverse than that now if we are being wholly honest...

I think the support of his family, being closer to friends and his affiliation with home will be enough to bring Freddie back to our side of thinking. He may have felt rejected when he was 18 or whatever but the club is infinitely different now with a new owner, management and squad to before! I for one hope he comes home and is an enormous success!

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 14:33
Also - if he felt @#$%& off with us from before imagine what he'll be thinking about Leicester now..

They've basically cleared him out to make room for someone they think is better, despite him being one of their best players this season!

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 15:21
Good point well made. Freddie looks like the man with the bit between his teeth, ford has in my opinion lost far too much confidence for me to be confident in him. Undoubtedly class on his day, worthy of the England shirt for now, but I'm really excited to see Freddie in stripey blue black and white

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
31 March, 2017 18:42
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
DanWiley
In a final I'd still rather have Ford.

Only with his head right and with Leigh Halfpenny doing the kicking though!

As a rider I'd add he would need to have got us there in the first place, ignoring the personal dislike some have for GF, FB will add team stability next season and its the team identity we are missing at present.

Not if we were playing Sarries.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 00:46
Having read the George Ford 'obituary' in the Telegraph, Saturday is now looming and we will all see, if as he states he wants to go out with bang, playing for his 'mates', whether he really means it and whether he is better than Freddie. The article seemed to me to be an advert for Mike Ford, coach for hire, and trying to justify his and father's actions.

The whole Ford saga seems to smack of a Ford, any Ford, is best and aren't we great. As I said, we will see. Much rather see a bit of humility in a player.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 05:39
I don't agree, I think that it's the journos spin. I've never heard either Ford brag when they speak. In fact I rarely hear any rugby player brag tbh. None of this Christian Ronaldo or Ibrahimivic 'where is my next statue'.

Agree that it will be interesting to see his mindset on Sat though, he is saying all the right things at least. Now let's see a match winning performance young George.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 05:59
Quote:
BathMatt53
I don't agree, I think that it's the journos spin. I've never heard either Ford brag when they speak. In fact I rarely hear any rugby player brag tbh. None of this Christian Ronaldo or Ibrahimivic 'where is my next statue'.
Agree that it will be interesting to see his mindset on Sat though, he is saying all the right things at least. Now let's see a match winning performance young George.

Are we saying that when George has had a bad game it is through lack of effort? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he will be trying his best as it is in his best interests but that doesn't mean it will go well for him. Let's just hope it does & we gain a much needed win.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 06:20
No not effort, mindset. Sometimes he tries to force a game or a move rather than just playing with freedom. Same with those days when he misses lots of kicks. The speculation earlier this year didn't help this obviously. His effort has never been in question for me.

I am hoping that with it all resolved he can run free at HQ just focussed on the game. It looks that way but time will tell.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 07:30
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Having read the George Ford 'obituary' in the Telegraph, Saturday is now looming and we will all see, if as he states he wants to go out with bang, playing for his 'mates', whether he really means it and whether he is better than Freddie. The article seemed to me to be an advert for Mike Ford, coach for hire, and trying to justify his and father's actions.
The whole Ford saga seems to smack of a Ford, any Ford, is best and aren't we great. As I said, we will see. Much rather see a bit of humility in a player.

I think humility is a feature of GF, he doesn't often talk to the press so I think that acccusation is wrong.

As for "a Ford, any Ford, is best", well the current England manager believes this to be true of at least one of them!

You seem to have developed an irrational view of GF and his father. He did produce some of the best performances by a Bath team not so long ago at that time we were worried he would be poached IIRC.

I think we have a VERY hard game ahead, because of an injury blight, lack of forwards domination and Tigers current form.

Sadly if we don't win I can see the blame being allocated to either George Ford or the venue or both.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
07 April, 2017 08:38
Hopefully George has a good game tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to next season when the only Fords at Farleigh have wheels.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 20:52
Well in direct comparison, what did you peeps think of the two fly halves and their performances today?

Have we got the best of the deal?

I will hold my council until I have read your comments.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 21:06
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Well in direct comparison, what did you peeps think of the two fly halves and their performances today?
Have we got the best of the deal?

I will hold my council until I have read your comments.

Will it include your apology to George Ford then?

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 21:11
George is a professional. He has made his decision but will still play to his best ability for the club he currently plays for. To think otherwise is childish and council (sic) should be held forever!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 22:42
George showed what he offers that burns doesn't. Something we're not going to get for again for another generation, at least.

However, bath played a batshit crazy plan that you can throw the ball around off first phase ball against a decent team and expect things to happen.

I guess it worked, though we did -some- hard work later, which with a yellow made the difference, but it won't 5 times out of 10.

We'll be fine with Freddie, but Jesus we're dicks for letting George walk away.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 22:50
You think leg irons DW? Or maybe 'cobbling' like in Misery? He exercised an option to leave - we hardly just let him walk away.

George was definitely better than Burns today though and in an open game on a sunny day and perfect pitch he is something to behold. I won't miss him playing off a retreating pack on a swampy surface though.

(How do you know we won't get another for a generation? We could sign Beauden B in 3 years for all we know.)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
08 April, 2017 22:57
George left because we handled moving his dad on fairly badly.

We've played some bad rugby this season. I really don't think any fly half would have impressed in some of our games this year.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 01:14
Ford played with a kind of intensity we've not seen for nearly 2 seasons. If performance like that will be that rare then there's no point keeping him. Bath wanted to but he didn't want to stay. Get over it.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 06:52
What would Geaorge looked like with Youngs pass? What will Burns look like with Kahn's pass?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 08:43
Quote:
hemington
What would Geaorge looked like with Youngs pass? What will Burns look like with Kahn's pass?

Excellent point, Bath are a different side when he plays.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 09:00
Did you see the evils Ford gave Cook after that shocking first pass yesterday?

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 09:21
That was a totally unacceptable pass for Cook, he was fresh on and we had the chance to go for another try, to throw it along the floor is just poor.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 09:40
Cook hasn't got the head for big pressure games.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 10:47
'However, bath played a batshit crazy plan that you can throw the ball around off first phase ball against a decent team and expect things to happen.'

I don't think Bath chucked the ball around willy-nilly - look how few times Roko or Banahan got the ball in the first 50 minutes. They just didn't kick very much. And maybe they did that not in the expectation that they were just going to run around like a Bas Baas game, but in recognition of the possibility that simply giving the ball back to the opposition is a bit passť now that back 3s are so immaculately organised that it's virtually impossible to find space with a kick.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 13:02
I suspect that o the firm pitch, Bath also backed their fitness levels, particularly against the bigger Tigers forwards. The yellow card was a result of Leicester struggling to get their defensive shape back and JP realising the danger.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 13:16
I don't think JP's brain worked anything out at all - he just instinctively stuck a hand out.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 22:44
Ford was at his best on this occasion & regrettably Burns won't get anywhere near that level.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
09 April, 2017 23:43
I've only been watching Aviva rugby for 3 seasons so I know very little about the game compared to most of you. I wasn't sure about something so I looked up some stats and I was very surprised to find out that other teams have actually won silverware WITHOUT George Ford.
Hard to believe.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 00:20
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Ford was at his best on this occasion & regrettably Burns won't get anywhere near that level.

Been said before, but I don't think GF is the only 10 capable of getting our excellent backs going.

There is plenty of creativity outside him but more importantly inside him as well Faletau Flo and Underhill to come next season.
I just think that Khan and Burns for a full season is at least as good as Khan and Ford for 2/3 rds of it.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 05:46
Saturday underlined the need for a quality heir to Kahn. Neither Cook nor Allinson are at an equivalent standard to sustain the momentum and service Fortuali'i creates for his flyhalf.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 06:12
Quote:
@Hydor18
Saturday underlined the need for a quality heir to Kahn. Neither Cook nor Allinson are at an equivalent standard to sustain the momentum and service Fortuali'i creates for his flyhalf.

Absolutely agree with this. No point in having stellar backs if they don't get accurate and quick ball. It's a shame that Hougaard is committed to Worcs, he's a fabulous player and one of the standout 9s in the prem for me.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 08:46
Quote:
@Hydor18
Saturday underlined the need for a quality heir to Kahn. Neither Cook nor Allinson are at an equivalent standard to sustain the momentum and service Fortuali'i creates for his flyhalf.

+1 We have to get ALL the pieces in place, 1st choice, back-up & 2nd back-up in all positions to be a top team. That doesn't mean that nos 2 & 3 have to be world class but there shouldn't be such a gulf that it disrupts the team. Unfortunately, it seems that Cook isn't an adequate back up to Kahn, sad as it is to say.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 09:22
We should be throwing the chequebook at Danny Care. Kahn is 35 in May. I can't believe he'd mind sharing duties with a scrum-half who would want to come in as nominally first choice, but would be away for large parts of the season. I reckon Care would get a lot out of training alongside and competing with Kahn too.

I really wanted Chris Cook to succeed, but he seems to have hit his ceiling.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 09:37
I agree with Opti. Although if I was Chris Cook, I would spend the whole summer working on my passing mechanics.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 09:51
It seems to me Cook's got the technique, i bet he's rocket like and laser guided on the training ground. I just think he hasn't the head for it in big games.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 10:04
It could possibly be that Cook will benefit from George leaving. Freddie seems to me like a much more fun-loving character than George - whose intensity may leave some players a bit cold and possibly a bit intimidated. Yes, it's great to be so super-professional and demand that everyone else aspire to his standards blah, blah. But also .... lighten up a bit ffs.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 10:18
Ford had a good game but Burns did not have a shocker tbf. I thought he played pretty well whilst on and it was noticeable that as a 10 he makes a fair number of tackles! Looking forward to that at least next season!

It is always pointless comparing two fly halves on a day like that when there are so many factors to consider which allow them to play their games as they would like;
- weather
- go forward from their forwards
- scrum-half partner
- movement and options from outside team mates

I think Burns will look good though when he gets into our backline and has our go forward from Faletau etc.

I do think we need a stronger 2nd choice scrum half. Why not go for Hougaard, or even Robson/Simpson whichever does not want to share game time at Wasps!

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 11:17
Quote:
Optimist
We should be throwing the chequebook at Danny Care. Kahn is 35 in May. I can't believe he'd mind sharing duties with a scrum-half who would want to come in as nominally first choice, but would be away for large parts of the season. I reckon Care would get a lot out of training alongside and competing with Kahn too.
I really wanted Chris Cook to succeed, but he seems to have hit his ceiling.

Cannot dispute any of that, though my preference would be to sign Ben Spencer as opposed to Danny Care, though the latter wouldn't be a bad shout in any way whatsoever. Failing that, we need to unearth another Michael Claassens from somewhere in Super Rugby.

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 11:45
Sadly agree regarding scrum half. Someone like stringer for a season wouldn't go amiss, but I would prefer more of a long term signing in an ideal world... Kahn has been immense this season though, I reckon he'll be a lot of supporters' player of the season and rightly so. It's just a back up who can step up when age gets the better of Mr. F

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 14:23
Care turned 30 a few months ago.

On EJ's list for the future? Unlikely.

Why would he leave Quins? Especially as captain?

Money?

 
MESSAGES->author
FourSticks (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 16:25
Rugby paper (well, Fissler) suggest that Sale were after Faf De Klerk. Isnít this someone Bath should be targeting?

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 16:29
Somehow Faf should not be the name for a Scrum Half!

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 17:38
In the two games I've seen recently with Freddie playing he's looked good and then limped off with a hamstring injury (or similar). Unlucky coincidence or does he have an underlying problem. Be the interesting to see his game completion stats if anyone can access them.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Freddie coming home for George
10 April, 2017 19:03
Will Homer looking sharp for united tonight. Marfo putting in a real shift too.

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