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MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

England team
16 March, 2017 10:17
[www.englandrugby.com]

Watson and Billy starting

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 10:26
Such a strong side.

Would Robshaw or Kruis get in this side if fit? There are more questions marks around that now than at the start of the tournament.

Come on England!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 10:38
"Would Robshaw or Kruis get in this side if fit?"

Yes. But Tom Woodn't.

Eliot Daly is due a bit of luck, so I hope he's going to have a really defining match. Having Billy back at 8, and two proper speedsters in the back 3 gives the team a much better feel, plus of course the after-glow of absolutely hammering the side that beat the side that we've got to beat.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 10:41
Over the 6N, EJ has had Mako, Billy and Ant come back from injury and lost nobody. That's a pretty remarkable stat in today's game. Lucky Eddie indeed! He's only Robshaw and Kruis short of his best 23. For me, Robshaw replaces Wood even if he doesn't make the 15. That said, I think Robshaw/Haskell/Billy is a more balance back row. Kruis/Itoje/Launchbury and the best 3 2nd rowers, but who starts? You can't really count Tuilagi these days. At best he's bench and I wouldn't pick him over Te'o.

 
MESSAGES->author
Griff (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 11:02
Strong side, surprised to see Nowell the one to drop to the bench, though he may have got the nod over Watson, with Watson to come off the bench. The Grand Slam decider probably isn't the game to try it, but would have liked to have seen either Watson or Daly at 15, Nowell on the wing at Brown dropped to the bench.



David Sisi Adopted player 2016/17

"You're going to need a bigger boat"

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 11:08
Whatever you think about Nowell, hes not a 'finisher'

Looking good for my grand slam bet put on before the tournament, still@#$%&odds though

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 11:45
I think Kruis would get in over Launchbury, Lawes has been too good to drop.

Robshaw should be back at 7 for me.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 11:49
The back row and half backs battle will be key. That is Ireland's strength and if we can beat them there, then we will win the game. Haskell is playing for a place on the plane to NZ.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 12:03
For the proposed New Zealand AI later this year, if we can perm 23 from the current 23 plus Robshaw and Kruis, I think we'd have a very good chance indeed.

So back 5 could be:

Kruis, Launchbury
Robshaw, Vunipola, Itoje

bench: Lawes + Haskell or Hughes

But frankly, perming any 2 from Kruis, Launch, Lawes, Itoje is possibly the greatest problem in world rugby.

I think Haskell - given his age and all-action style - is the least likely of these to make it to the WC, so i'd be inclined to phase him out. Hughes isn't quite the same player, but with Robshaw back in the 23 I think the back-row still covers the bases. And if Haskell can keep Robshaw or Hughes out, then it will only be because he is playing absolutely out of his skin.

I'd like to see Watson, Daly, Nowell as the back 3 with Brown phased out.

Next cabs off the rank for the 23 are Genge, Slade, Lozowski and maybe Underhill if he's half as good as he was reckoned. Add a challenger at scrum-half and that's pretty much a World Cup squad. Room for Tuilagi is he undergoes a miracle, and a couple of bolters.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 15:47
Odds on England just went up a bit:

'Conor Murray has failed to shake off his shoulder problem and will miss Ireland's RBS 6 Nations finale with England, while boss Joe Schmidt has dropped lock Devin Toner.
Fit-again Jared Payne starts at full-back ahead of Rob Kearney, with Iain Henderson preferred to Toner in the second-row and Kieran Marmion replacing Murray at scrum-half'

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 19:49
Quote:
Optimist
Odds on England just went up a bit:
'Conor Murray has failed to shake off his shoulder problem and will miss Ireland's RBS 6 Nations finale with England, while boss Joe Schmidt has dropped lock Devin Toner.
Fit-again Jared Payne starts at full-back ahead of Rob Kearney, with Iain Henderson preferred to Toner in the second-row and Kieran Marmion replacing Murray at scrum-half'

Well, they went up with the first sentence and down with the second. Payne is a genius at counterattacking after poor kicks. I'd be putting the ball into Row Z everytime. I'm just glad he's at 15 rather than 13, where he's even better. Guile is what will beat England on Saturday and Jared Payne has it in spades.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 20:23
Quote:
jayeatman
Over the 6N, EJ has had Mako, Billy and Ant come back from injury and lost nobody. That's a pretty remarkable stat in today's game. Lucky Eddie indeed! He's only Robshaw and Kruis short of his best 23. For me, Robshaw replaces Wood even if he doesn't make the 15. That said, I think Robshaw/Haskell/Billy is a more balance back row. Kruis/Itoje/Launchbury and the best 3 2nd rowers, but who starts? You can't really count Tuilagi these days. At best he's bench and I wouldn't pick him over Te'o.


Interesting that as the 6N tournament progresses sides normally weaken because of the attrition rate .

As you say, in contrast Eng have got stronger because of those returning from injury. This looks the strongest Eng team yet.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
16 March, 2017 21:29
'Well, they went up with the first sentence and down with the second. Payne is a genius at counterattacking after poor kicks. I'd be putting the ball into Row Z'.

Which is exactly what Young's did brilliantly against Scotland early on - not Riw Z, but good length and off the pitch. Struck me as a much better tactic than box-kicking. With England's strength and options in the lineout, and combined with the danger of competing in the air, I'd like to see more of it.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 10:16
I find this is a useful site to gauge what the betting community are thinking - oddschecker; slight widening of the England odds over the week, started at 4/6 Mon/Tue with most and a few are still there.

The loss of Murray has increased my confidence of an England win a little and I think their aerial game will be less of a threat now. Brown is just the man for the 15 shirt on Saturday if Ireland choose the Garryowen method in the first 20mins.

I don't think I have been as nervous about an England game since the RWC final in 2003 and have no idea how wide our winning margin will be though 0-3 will do...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 10:28
"I don't think I have been as nervous about an England game since the RWC final in 2003"

I'm not that worried about the result - I just want it to be a fantastic game ... more like Wales/Ireland than England/Scotland last week. It would be a shame for NH rugby if Ireland's win over NZ was a bit of an illusion. If England were to romp it, then I don't think there'd be much arguing that they are on a collision course with NZ for world number one, but a real nail-biter would be good for both teams, for NH rugby and good for England in the long run.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 11:37
Agree Opti.

I do NOT want England to lose, but- given the ABs habit (until 2011) of peaking between World Cups and suffering disappointment at the tournaments, I do want England to be well tested.

They have to lose sometime, but on the basis I hope (end even slightly expect) them to win this weekend, I also hope Eddie's continuing search for "more and better" is stretched by Ireland.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 11:59
Opti - I can't agree with the "not that worried" bit of your post, there is too much at stake on Saturday. There would be no shame losing to Ireland in Dublin unless we put in an horrendous performance, but it would be bitterly disappointing not to achieve the world record for continuous wins, b2b slams and beat the last team to beat NZ. This opportunity is to historic to miss and shouldn't be. As for the game I would be happy if Ireland were trounced in the way Scotland were last week though it's unlikely and yes PG England have to lose sometime but I would rather that be during this year's AI's than this Saturday...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:06
Quote:
Clarkey3k
Opti - I can't agree with the "not that worried" bit of your post, there is too much at stake on Saturday. There would be no shame losing to Ireland in Dublin unless we put in an horrendous performance, but it would be bitterly disappointing not to achieve the world record for continuous wins, b2b slams and beat the last team to beat NZ. This opportunity is to historic to miss and shouldn't be. As for the game I would be happy if Ireland were trounced in the way Scotland were last week though it's unlikely and yes PG England have to lose sometime but I would rather that be during this year's AI's than this Saturday...
Just for the sake of pedantry - we're a way off that yes, IIRC Cyprus hold that record, with 24 straight wins. So we'd need to go through 2017 undefeated to reach that record.
If we insist of having a cripple-fight between a battered, knackered and probably 2nd string NZ and a battered, knackered and probably second string England in November; then it would be asking a hell of a lot.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:11
Thank you WT that's such a relief, correction confirmed by ESPN; that takes the pressure off all involved (Sm100)



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:29
Quote:
Boldngrey
Quote:
jayeatman
Over the 6N, EJ has had Mako, Billy and Ant come back from injury and lost nobody. That's a pretty remarkable stat in today's game. Lucky Eddie indeed! He's only Robshaw and Kruis short of his best 23. For me, Robshaw replaces Wood even if he doesn't make the 15. That said, I think Robshaw/Haskell/Billy is a more balance back row. Kruis/Itoje/Launchbury and the best 3 2nd rowers, but who starts? You can't really count Tuilagi these days. At best he's bench and I wouldn't pick him over Te'o.


Interesting that as the 6N tournament progresses sides normally weaken because of the attrition rate .

As you say, in contrast Eng have got stronger because of those returning from injury. This looks the strongest Eng team yet.


In terms of caps it certainly is. This week's 23 have 923. Contrast that with Eddies first match, 655 or the RWC15 team v Fiji, 591.
If you want to go to extremes both 23s against Argentina in 2013 had less than 200.
Even with Lions and some tactical resting I expect this summer's party to have rather more!

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:30
St Swithins under 12s team were undefeated in 1963, then stayed undefeated right through to the sixth form. That was 47 straight wins. Never be beaten

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:35
Were you a proud member of that team TiB?



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 12:51
To clarify Clarkey, I agree with you:

"I hope (end even slightly expect) them to win this weekend".

I do want them to have a tough challenge to overcome -in the long run I think that will be best for the team's development.

PG

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 15:12
"I would rather that (loss) be during this year's AI's than this Saturday..."

I think we're both agreed that we'd prefer not to lose at all, but i'd infinitely rather lose to Ireland and then go unbeaten again through the AIs, if that were the choice, than beat Ireland and slip up in 8 months' time.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: England team
17 March, 2017 20:08
Win against Ireland. Win the AIs.

Lose in Argentina - if it's a full cap.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 01:26
England's opponents for the rest of this year are Ireland, Argentina, Argentina, Argentina, Australia, Samoa and (possibly) New Zealand.

With all due respect to the clearly stellar St Swithins under 12s team of '63, if England can beat Ireland, I can see them going to 24 games unbeaten which would mean the putative NZ match would be for the outright record (beating that of Cyprus).

No pressure then.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 02:38 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 02:39
Quote:
joethefanatic
England's opponents for the rest of this year are Ireland, Argentina, Argentina, Argentina, Australia, Samoa and (possibly) New Zealand.
With all due respect to the clearly stellar St Swithins under 12s team of '63, if England can beat Ireland, I can see them going to 24 games unbeaten which would mean the putative NZ match would be for the outright record (beating that of Cyprus).

No pressure then.

EDIT. I was wrong on the order - its Ireland, Argentina, Argentina, (New Zealand), Argentina, Australia and Samoa.

I'm rather hoping the NZ game doesn't happen. They'll be coming off the Rugby Championship and England wont have played together since the end of the 6N (and will have been beasted on the Lions tour).



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 08:57
I would love to see Eng beat Ire and achieve the record.

Then I think it would be no bad thing to lose it. It's a record only NZ seemed to know about or care about and there is a danger it will become a stone round the neck - 'whatever happens, we mustn't lose'.

But of course we must lose it to the right team - not Wales!

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 18:41
If i get really, really drunk now, is it too late to suffer memory loss for the last 5 hours?



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
happyH
happyH (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 18:46
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 18:52
Quote:
happyH
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

Since coming on, Jack Nowell has been next to useless. Just like 10, 12, 13, 11, 15...

I have to admire Ireland's rugby intelligence, combined with their fans, although surely it must be more visible on the TV than on the pitch.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 18:54
Something ironic about the fact the game ends with Mike Brown not holding onto the ball...

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:00
Disappointing end to the game. Fair play to ireland but they definitely play on the edge of legality, you can understand why they seem to lose when they are refereed by someone pedantic. Only interesting part of the game for me, was Farrell versus Sexton, Farrell is looking world class, his game has come on leaps and bounds since the RWC. Had Teo stay on, you wonder if things would have been different.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:02
Well done Ireland but England were unrecognisably poor. The scrum and lineout were a mess and no competition at the rucks meant they had no front foot ball. Hard to win in that situation. The real worry is that they couldnt come up with a solution on the hoof.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 19:03 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:05
On the upside, many fewer English players will be beasted in New Zealand now. Judy will pick his favourites and they will lose.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:07
Time to bury the nonsense of putting 6 on Itoje's back and playing Lawes (who I thought was very poor today) at 6.
Mike Brown has to go, he should have gone in the autumn and that is a massive selection error from Eddie.
Ref allowed Ireland to constantly play men off the ball at the breakdown - why wasn't Hartley questioning that?
Ben Youngs was dishing out slow ball from the little possession England had but Danny Care gave away a dumb penalty and stupidly kicked possession away with 2 minutes left.

All in all a terrible day at the office for England but they'll learn a great deal from it.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:08
Wales finished 5th. Many of their players going would be ridiculous. Their coach going is an outrage.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:09
Hartley did question the playing people off the ball - and got a penalty off O'Mahony the next phase.

Too many individual errors.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:25
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
happyH
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

Since coming on, Jack Nowell has been next to useless. Just like 10, 12, 13, 11, 15...

I have to admire Ireland's rugby intelligence, combined with their fans, although surely it must be more visible on the TV than on the pitch.

As an ex-forward, I am normally happy to slate the backs, but given the utter lack of possession and go forward from the pack and Youngs going back to his slow ball shoveling worst, there really were reduced to trying to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:27
Interesting that EJ mentions Mike Brown in particular....

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:28
Quote:
DownSouth
Interesting that EJ mentions Mike Brown in particular....

Turned off in disgust - what did he say? Been a long time since I saw an expression that thunderous on EJ's face...



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 19:34
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
happyH
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

Since coming on, Jack Nowell has been next to useless. Just like 10, 12, 13, 11, 15...

I have to admire Ireland's rugby intelligence, combined with their fans, although surely it must be more visible on the TV than on the pitch.

As an ex-forward, I am normally happy to slate the backs, but given the utter lack of possession and go forward from the pack and Youngs going back to his slow ball shoveling worst, there really were reduced to trying to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.

Oh, I agree. They were useless today but they're not useless players.

I think this was not the kind of game for Ben Youngs (what is?) and it showed. The slow passing was one thing but the lack of control and commitment at the base was even worse.

 
Jonny Fantastic
Jonny Fantastic (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 20:04
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
happyH
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

Since coming on, Jack Nowell has been next to useless. Just like 10, 12, 13, 11, 15...

I have to admire Ireland's rugby intelligence, combined with their fans, although surely it must be more visible on the TV than on the pitch.

As an ex-forward, I am normally happy to slate the backs, but given the utter lack of possession and go forward from the pack and Youngs going back to his slow ball shoveling worst, there really were reduced to trying to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.

Oh, I agree. They were useless today but they're not useless players.

I think this was not the kind of game for Ben Youngs (what is?) and it showed. The slow passing was one thing but the lack of control and commitment at the base was even worse.

Slow service is something Georgey will have to get used to at Tigers next season! tongue sticking out smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 20:11
I reckon Eddie was picking an unchanged team whilst the run was still on. Now its broken I think there will be changes.

Can't see why Hartley is there, since the tackle criteria have changed he has been largely invisible and brings no tactical element with him to the field.

Not sure what EJ said a about Mike Brown as had to relinquish the TV to the family after 3 games in a row, one lasting 100 mins. However, it's time for a change at FB.

Can we get rid of Lawes at flanker, it is not working. He is not fast enough and doesn't have the hands, 2 second rows and a proper back row please.

Teo needs a proper test at 12.

 
dancing quin
dancing quin (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 20:28
Quote:
by
Disappointing end to the game. Fair play to ireland but they definitely play on the edge of legality, you can understand why they seem to lose when they are refereed by someone pedantic. Only interesting part of the game for me, was Farrell versus Sexton, Farrell is looking world class, his game has come on leaps and bounds since the RWC. Had Teo stay on, you wonder if things would have been different.

What did he do today that was world-class? His tackling was borderline illegal (one of them was and resulted in a penalty) and his passing was average (the one to Brown in the first 10 minutes was woeful when a try was on). Garry Ringrose was the better 12 even though he's still wet behind the ears. His whole 6 Nations has been average at best and in the case of the Italy game, was rubbish. Some players are dropped for one mistake (Roko), yet some are Teflon.

 
Budicus
StuartMMoss (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 21:12
Complete, total and utter dross! We turned off after 20
Mins as the result was a forgone conclusion even at that early stage. I even had to ask my friends if EJ had been sacked and Bomber brought back... they were that bad!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 22:05
Quote:
StuartMMoss
Complete, total and utter dross! We turned off after 20
Mins as the result was a forgone conclusion even at that early stage. I even had to ask my friends if EJ had been sacked and Bomber brought back... they were that bad!

A slight exageration! There was another team involved who had a say in the matter.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 22:39
Quote:
happyH
How on earth did Watson get picked in front of jack nowell. He has been next to useless

Err, nowell would have made precisely zero difference. Ireland were far more aggressive at the breakdown and England looked - dare I say it - like it was job done. Well done Ireland, stodgy game won through defence and England had no answer.

Like those above I hope that this means the end of the 'let's beat the record' selection and maybe more of the 'what would be the best team in 2019'. Far more excited about Argentina than NZ if that's not some sort of crime.

The king is dead, long live the king.

 
Budicus
StuartMMoss (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 22:45
Yes BH, but were Ireland great? Nope... good yes, great? No.
England should have won that, not at a canter, but with a little to spare. They did not turn up today, and yes... I felt like Bomber was back in charge again... England were (apart from a few glimpses when they tried to shove it up their jumpers) clueless and ran round trying to force it. They looked like they had no plan b.

Ps... I confess... we did turn it back on until finally giving up with 10 to go... after all there was a roast to eat and wine to drink! 😃😉😃

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 22:48
Always a tough ask to win in Dublin and Ireland were really up for this, well played to them.

Seemed like every England player had one significant mistake in them except for Lawes, lost count of his.

Also thought the Irish crowd reffed the game well and gave good advice to Jerome, who needed all of the impartial help he could get as he was often clueless.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 23:01
Hope this is the end of the 'finishers' strategy.

EJ needs to settle on his first choice team and stick with it. How else are they going to be able to play as a team when under pressure (bearing in mind the paralysis against Italy) and a fairly gullible ref.



Matt Garvey - one to add to my List of Forward Talented Adoptees since 2003/4!

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 23:24
Bottom line is England bottled it.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England team
18 March, 2017 23:31
I still believe England's biggest weakness is the strength-in-depth of England.

There is always some demand, some clamour to select a different team, based on 'form'.

England needs to settle on a tactical strategy (and I think it broadly has) and it needs to let the players learn in that environment.

If someone really deserves the opportunity then they can come in - but to overhaul a record-winning team because of one defeat! I didn't see New Zealand doing that...

We need to move away from Sarries, or Wasps, Or Exe, or Bath are playing well - let's select a load of their players.

 
Bluebs
Bluebs (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 08:31
Come on people, some real bilge here - settle on starters?? It's a squad game these days - we're going to need that niko commentary too Annie. A poor performance by England no doubt and we're all disappointed, but I don't think many of us can question too vociferously the methods of a coach that's delivered back to back 6n and unbeaten summer and autumn campaigns.. There should be some minor changes and no doubt there will. The result will benefit the team in the long run and I for one will be delighted to lose the media nonsense surrounding record wins

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 08:39
A few more of England's first choice will be in Argentina than NZ after that. George and Ant will need good ends of season, so that might benefit Bath a bit. Youngs, Marler, Lawes and Hartley have slipped down a bit. Not going to be many English players featuring in Teams oif the Weekend, that's for sure. Launchbury might be the only one who gets close.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 09:16
Quote:
Optimist
A few more of England's first choice will be in Argentina than NZ after that.

I am sure that will be the case but it just highlights how fickle form can be.

It doesn't seem very meritocratic - your 18 unbeaten games are dismissed because of one game against a fired up opposition and playing in one of rugby's most special home environments.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 10:00
England were stuffed, The men in green clearly wanted more so well done to them . Back to the drawing board really for England, slow ball, lumbering forwards, no cutting edge in the backs, dreadful truly but not surprising as this has happened before in Dublin .

 
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OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 10:43
Not worth getting over emotional about, losing really didn't matter that much. England won the 6N with a game to spare.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
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shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 11:20
Interesting that Eddie has said he is working to a staged team development.

1) Build success and examine team.
2) Build team for RWC
3) Prepare that team for RWC.

Changes to come!

 
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CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 12:13
Quote:
BathPatriot
England were stuffed, The men in green clearly wanted more so well done to them . Back to the drawing board really for England, slow ball, lumbering forwards, no cutting edge in the backs, dreadful truly but not surprising as this has happened before in Dublin .

Being beaten by a four point margin away from home is a stuffing? Good grief!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 12:17
It's probably best that we lost , narrowly, having won several matches, narrowly. It gets things in perspective as I don't think England are all that special but certainly EJ had given them belief. I would suggest that , like all the other nations, they are still appreciably behind NZ & only marginally ahead of Ireland & Australia. We have lots of good players with one or two outstanding whereas NZ have a starting 15 of outstanding players with some good players backing them up though our pool is greater.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 15:11
Well my view that England's player of the tournament is Chris Robshaw hasn't changed after yesterday. England have played about 100 minutes of coherent rugby across 5 games and the need for some balance in the back row never goes away. What would England have given for someone who can go error-free through an entire game, yesterday in particular.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 16:17
Gatland's comments are really worrying from a Lions perspective. seemed to dismiss England's achievements and feels they aren't much cop away from home.

 
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shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 16:30
Have to agree Opti, looking at the two games that were very similar in my view, Wales and Ireland it is noticeable how specialist combinations of Moriaty, Tipuric and Warbuton and O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander were instrumental in winning the breakdown by combinations of Ripping in the Wales match and holding the tackled player up yesterday.

Lawes/Itoje need to be playing back row week after week not filling in as flanker, for a big guy Lawes gets stripped of the ball way too often. We could do with a player like Croft, (but not Croft).

Back row has to be a priority its a science and Kiwis are regular stars in that position.

 
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hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England team
19 March, 2017 16:56
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Gatland's comments are really worrying from a Lions perspective. seemed to dismiss England's achievements and feels they aren't much cop away from home.

Away from home like in Wales? Or in Australia.

This Lions selection is going to end up being more divisive than Woodward's, isn't it?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:07
Interesting player ratings by Telegraph - glad that the professional pundits' view of Brown is much the same as the fans'.

 
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woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:13
A few weeks back I was in a pub on the Sunday after the France game I think and it had every newspaper, the player ratings were all over the place. Ben Youngs was one that stood out, Ford a bit too.

 
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Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:19
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Gatland's comments are really worrying from a Lions perspective. seemed to dismiss England's achievements and feels they aren't much cop away from home.
Aren't England the only team to win away from home (or Rome) this 6N?
If England "aren't much cop away from home" then what are Ireland, Scotland or Wales?



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:31
I wonder what the team against Argentina will look like. Quite excited by the prospect of something like:

Genge
George/Taylor/Hartley even
Sinckler
Kruis
Ewels
Underhill
Hughes
Robshaw

Robson/Simpson/Spencer
Lozowski

Slade
Te'o

Wade
Roko
Lewington/Haley


I kind of wish Eddie would use the tour not just to bring on some youngsters and under-used 6N squad players, but to bring back one or two who could do with the Eddie magic - thinking of Ben Morgan in particular.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:40
The Times has a graph showing 6N away wins over the past 10 years (excepting matches v Italy). Since the last Lions Tour Wales have managed 2 away wins in 4 seasons (both in 2015) and Ireland 2 (2014 &15), England have 5 (1 each season apart from 2016 which was 2).

Ireland of course won last year in S Africa & England thrice in Australia. If away win experience is a key criterion, then Gatland should look to those 2 nations for the majority of his party.


PG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/03/2017 18:27 by P G Tips.

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: England team
20 March, 2017 15:54
Didn't Ireland also win away in USA, or doesn't that count?(Sm154)


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