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Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 11:59
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
woodpecker
I guess that if your tory MP is a headbanger like IDS, Cash Redwood, Rees-mogg and the Lib dem has a chance, then get rid of them.

Why is IDS a headbanger. Okay, he is pro Brexit which is surely a perfectly plausible view even if you don't share it. Is that all that makes him a headbanger???

He's been poisoning the tory party since the days of major

Can you give any examples of that. Was all the work he did on universal credit just a vanity project?

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 12:13
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
woodpecker
I guess that if your tory MP is a headbanger like IDS, Cash Redwood, Rees-mogg and the Lib dem has a chance, then get rid of them.

Why is IDS a headbanger. Okay, he is pro Brexit which is surely a perfectly plausible view even if you don't share it. Is that all that makes him a headbanger???

He's been poisoning the tory party since the days of major

Can you give any examples of that. Was all the work he did on universal credit just a vanity project?

No not really, the definition of a headbanger is not clearly defined, neither are the parameters defining one, it's just my view of him based on what he's been banging on about since 1992 (he was totally useless as the tory leader as well)

When he goes on about German cars and French cheese I have to turn the radio off

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 12:45
Quote:
hasta
If FPTP is so wonderful and decisive, why are we having another election so soon? Why was the last government a coalition? Why do no new electoral systems use it? If we trust MPs as guardians - why have referendums? Why do you not trust MEPs as guardians?

I don't believe the Lords is democratic, nor did I hold the EU to a higher account. I still believe the fact that the executive arm of the EU is comprised of the unelected is undesirable politically and democratically and the wilfull ignorance of referendums voting against Treaty change a real democratic shame.

That was not the point however. The contention was that the EU approach to democratic systems was alien to our own. Many of the reasons we understand and appreciate our approach to democratic systems is not shared with the EU.

On representation and jurisprudence, I believe the British models are superior (though not perfect) to that of the European Union and would like to see their influence enhanced, not diminished...

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 12:53
Scotland, Norn Iron and Wales all have PR. It's not beyond the wit of man to understand, nor is it alien.

FPTP is extremely susceptible to gerrymandering (which is currently in favour of Labour in this country).

Any particular aspect of the legal system you have an issue with?

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 12:54
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Because I don't know how to do a link thing I have cut and paste the article below from 2016

<snip>Long tax article</snip>

Interesting and unexpected although makes sense when you think about the increase in the amount you can earn before you pay any tax.

However direct tax (income tax) isn't the only source of tax and the poorest still have to pay a fair wack on petrol, fuel, booze & fags (how dare they!), clothes, stamp duty, council tax etc etc. These taxes apparently take a higher proportion of income for the poor than they would for the rich.

 
al Mossah
al Mossah (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 12:55
[www.iaindhttp:]
IDS is somewhat evasive on his education. The "College of Management" at Dunchurch was GEC's management college. One went there for short courses on various aspects of business, as I did and, I assume, IDS did. He is probably the only person in the world who includes short qualification-free courses at the top of his CV. He undermined John Major at every opportunity, and appeared astonished that the public didn't love him when he became leader.
He also quotes a dodgy attendance at the Universita per Stranieri in Perugia. Michael Crick and others exposed his grandiose boastings about his education.
George Osborne apparently described him as "too thick to be in government".

Now he has got his wish, but none of the responsibility to sort out the mess. Like Farage. What was said about "power without responsibility"?

Need to go and lie down now while the blood pressure comes back down.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 13:07
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
However direct tax (income tax) isn't the only source of tax and the poorest still have to pay a fair wack on petrol, fuel, booze & fags (how dare they!), clothes, stamp duty, council tax etc etc. These taxes apparently take a higher proportion of income for the poor than they would for the rich.

why shouldn't the poor pay for the things they use? It's just a fact of life that it probably costs them a higher proportion of their wages.



Chris Cook - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 13:51
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
However direct tax (income tax) isn't the only source of tax and the poorest still have to pay a fair wack on petrol, fuel, booze & fags (how dare they!), clothes, stamp duty, council tax etc etc. These taxes apparently take a higher proportion of income for the poor than they would for the rich.

why shouldn't the poor pay for the things they use? It's just a fact of life that it probably costs them a higher proportion of their wages.

Never said they shouldn't. Just that the article only looked at direct taxes when saying nearly half the population pay "no taxes".

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 13:59
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Because I don't know how to do a link thing I have cut and paste the article below from 2016

<snip>Long tax article</snip>

Interesting and unexpected although makes sense when you think about the increase in the amount you can earn before you pay any tax.

However direct tax (income tax) isn't the only source of tax and the poorest still have to pay a fair wack on petrol, fuel, booze & fags (how dare they!), clothes, stamp duty, council tax etc etc. These taxes apparently take a higher proportion of income for the poor than they would for the rich.

Good point, I've noticed that the poor seem to be extremely fond of fags

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 14:44
Quote:
hasta
Scotland, Norn Iron and Wales all have PR. It's not beyond the wit of man to understand, nor is it alien.
FPTP is extremely susceptible to gerrymandering (which is currently in favour of Labour in this country).

Any particular aspect of the legal system you have an issue with?

I did not say it is beyond the wit of man. It is alien to our concept of FPTP, which has been in place in this country and was roundly backed in the AV referendums. It doesn't mean we haven't experienced, only that is very different to our well-established, and supported, FPTP system.

I prefer our adversarial legal system to the EU's inquisitorial system (though that's not to say you cant prefer the Napoleonic system).

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 14:53
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
However direct tax (income tax) isn't the only source of tax and the poorest still have to pay a fair wack on petrol, fuel, booze & fags (how dare they!), clothes, stamp duty, council tax etc etc. These taxes apparently take a higher proportion of income for the poor than they would for the rich.

why shouldn't the poor pay for the things they use? It's just a fact of life that it probably costs them a higher proportion of their wages.

Never said they shouldn't. Just that the article only looked at direct taxes when saying nearly half the population pay "no taxes".
I'l be honest - my biggest take-away from that article was that about half the population earn less than half the national average wage - which indicates to me that national average wage should be shown with both mean and median averages. Granted there's no top end to someone's wage, which will always scew upwards; but that tells a hell of a story about welath inequality in and of itself IMO.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 15:19
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
hasta
Scotland, Norn Iron and Wales all have PR. It's not beyond the wit of man to understand, nor is it alien.
FPTP is extremely susceptible to gerrymandering (which is currently in favour of Labour in this country).

Any particular aspect of the legal system you have an issue with?

I did not say it is beyond the wit of man. It is alien to our concept of FPTP, which has been in place in this country and was roundly backed in the AV referendums. It doesn't mean we haven't experienced, only that is very different to our well-established, and supported, FPTP system.

I prefer our adversarial legal system to the EU's inquisitorial system (though that's not to say you cant prefer the Napoleonic system).

The AV referendum had a turnout of 42% - but the fact is that PR is used in this country. It's not alien.

I also prefer adversarial to inquisitorial - but we didn't have to give up or concede that.

 
The Oilman
The Oilman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 20:21
Is it puzzling that the Lib-Dems had 2 candidates withdraw; Yeovil and then Bath? I was wondering whether they had a couple of big hitters lined up since they should be winnable seats. Not sure who the potential big-hitters are though.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
26 April, 2017 20:48
Big hitters and LibDems great example of an oxymoron!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
27 April, 2017 00:44
Vincente Cable maybe?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
27 April, 2017 06:09
Cable is restanding in Twickenham (and may well win).

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
27 April, 2017 09:55
Quote:
The Oilman
Is it puzzling that the Lib-Dems had 2 candidates withdraw; Yeovil and then Bath? I was wondering whether they had a couple of big hitters lined up since they should be winnable seats. Not sure who the potential big-hitters are though.

Not that puzzling. Having stood two years ago - usually at great personal expense - they have now got on with their lives



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: O/T Election?
27 April, 2017 11:54
I understand that the Conservatives have a "problem" in that candidates are standing in Labour seats with the view that they stood no chance and then in five years time would be first in line for a nice cosy 15,000 majority seat in the Home Counties.

Problem is they now stand a chance of winning and will end up with a tiny majority which they will almost certainly lose in five years time!

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 10:26
OK, so today's campaign topic seems to be Housing...

Do we need to protect the green belt?
Should new homes be built for ownership or for renting?
Is it right that those who are most fortunate are significantly more succesful at blocking housebuilding in their locality?

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 11:37
protect green belt wherever possible and stop building hopuses to sell to investors overseas to either lie empty or to rent out at exhorbitant prices. There was a report on Radio 4 Today this morning talking about some British Development company with an office in Singapore selling apartmentys to locals and Chinese. I think they said they had already sold 70% of the project (can't be sure as it was very early and I hadn't woken up properly!!)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 12:06
A few years back I recall a labour minister's comment along the lines of "the green belt is one of labours successes and we're going to build on it."

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 12:22
It's a tricky one, but in my village there's 'green belt' that is:
A. Adjacent a motorway and good road.
B. An unused and over-grown field.
C. Of no scenic value whatsoever.

Should it be sacrosanct just because it was zone green belt over 60 years ago? (When the motorway and most of the village wasn't there for starters).
I don't think so.

There must be lots of bits and pieces of land like this which could be used for badly needed housing.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan

 
The Oilman
The Oilman (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 14:16
Quote:
Stuart Anderton
Quote:
The Oilman
Is it puzzling that the Lib-Dems had 2 candidates withdraw; Yeovil and then Bath? I was wondering whether they had a couple of big hitters lined up since they should be winnable seats. Not sure who the potential big-hitters are though.

Not that puzzling. Having stood two years ago - usually at great personal expense - they have now got on with their lives

Two candidates have withdrawn , great personal expense 2 years ago, got on with their lives.
Don't see the connection.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 14:36
Quote:
jayeatman
There must be lots of bits and pieces of land like this which could be used for badly needed housing.

The problem I have with the 'Green Belt' is that it is just an argument given to those fortunate enough to live by the countryside to block future development.

I'm reminded of this article that said that found that only 2.27% of Britain is built upon and only 10% of England is classified as Urban (including rural properties and roads).

Is there really so much value to 90% of the land in England? Is it's utility more important than being able to provide housing to those who need.

I understand wanting to protect unique and special landscapes, but protecting a field ahead of the need for housing strikes me as a bit callous. Especially when a fair few of the reasonable objections can be mitigated with sensible architectural design.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 15:36
The 'green belt' isn't just random countryside though, it's specific parts around metropolitan areas designed to impede urban sprawl.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/The_Metropolitan_Green_Belt_among_the_green_belts_of_England.svg/330px-The_Metropolitan_Green_Belt_among_the_green_belts_of_England.svg.png

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: O/T Election?
28 April, 2017 16:59
But what are the reasons for defending against urban sprawl?

If a city has housing demand why meet it by increasing congestion in the urban areas, or through increased cost from developing Brownfield sites.

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