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opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 15:48
...so now we know which England players have the misfortune of spending their summer learning Warrenball and being taught how to butcher 3 on 1s by Rob How?ley, we can get on to the main event and pick an England team vs Argentina. I'm going to select the team I want rather than the team I think Eddie will pick:

Genge
Hartley + Taylor
??
Attwood
Beaumont
Underhill
Hughes
Robshaw

Care
Ford

Mallinder
Slade

Wade
Lozowski
Roko


I don't want to see too many caps chucked around. If they are likely to go to the WC and they aren't on the Lions, pick them.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 15:55
Did you leave out Launchbury because of his Mrs?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 15:55
Bu$$er. Stick Launchbury in. Definitely.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 15:59
Will Underhill be available by the Argentina tour?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:04
Yeah, Underhill will be available. Zach Mercer *might* get a shot. Denny Solomona might too.

Ford/Slade/Mallinder/Lozowski - OK, so. I'd give Will Addison a go at centre.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:07
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Will Underhill be available by the Argentina tour?

yes he will

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:13
Interested to see how Eddie screws Roko over this time...

Have a feeling May and Yard are going to be our starting wings.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:23
Oh God you're right, it's going to be Yarde, isn't it?

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:30
Aren't there any wings waiting in the wings? Eddie doesn't really like Yarde and he despises Roko

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:32
Denny Solomona...

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:39
Its a great opportunity for Jones to have a look at some players he hasn't looked at before isn't it?

Woodburn might make the squad - that would be interesting if Roko doesn't. Whitten, Cowan-Dickie and Ewers must also be on the radar. Are Whitten and Cowan-Dickie long term injured?

 
Omba
Omba (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:52
Other Bath involvement not mentioned yet?

Ewels
Catt

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:54
Not who I'd take but this is my guess as to who EJ will take with him:

1. Mullan
2. Hartley
3. Brookes
4. Launchbury
5. Ewells
6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Hughes
9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Slade
13. Marchant
14. Yarde
15. Brown

16. Taylor
17. Genge
18. Hill
19. Beaumont
20. Jones
21. Spencer
22. Lozowski
23. Haley

I'd like to see Catt, Underhill, Wade, Roko, Goode, Cowan-Dickie and Mercer all at least included in the squad but I don't know what their chances are of nailing down any of the shirts.

Maybe Freddie based on current form?



Adam Hastings/Bath Rugby - Adopted Player 2016/17

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 16:57
Whats the other young tighthead porp at Saints called ?? Not Brookes !!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 17:01
Paul Hill

 
Huxster
Huxster (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 17:14
Yeah Him



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Huxster8/Huxster6.jpg

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 17:26
Dan Robson deserves a go, so does Jason Woodward if he's eligible.

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 17:29
Mallinder not good enough IMO sadly... Great physique, but brain fart city

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 17:31
Nathan Catt may get a gig too, though he needs to impress in the last few matches.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 18:40
Quote:
benjbath
Mallinder not good enough IMO sadly... Great physique, but brain fart city

Not good enough yet, agreed...but there's sometime about him (apart from being a 6ft 6 centre) and hes only about 12. I think in a couple of years time he's going to be very useful indeed.

I'd like to see Lozowski and Slade given the 10 shirt for the tour and George given the summer off. Eddie isn't going to learn anything new about him and Lozowski in particular could be a star in the making.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 18:42
Hepburn, Lees & Armand of the Exeter forwards may well be on the radar -Wood & Harrison from Saints, Morgan from Glos. M Williams from Tigers has been in England training squads so could be in with a shout.

Agree about Whitten in the backs - plus possibly Devoto & Sam James.

I wonder if Eddie will rest a few as Lancaster did 4 years ago?

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 18:45
Beginning to think Slade's best position is 12, but agree about Lozowski.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
19 April, 2017 21:57
Actually much more interested in this squad than three lions one. I'd love to see some of those that have potential, but yet to get the experience.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 01:57
Seem to remember (don't intend to find the quote at this time of night) EJ saying he felt let down by some members who have previously been included in his EPS squad, or rather that they weren't ready, nor equipped for international rugby.

Not a great deal of speculation was given to who these players might be and it's important to add that I don't think this quote was particularly recent (maybe last summer or autumn?). But I feel like Devoto may be included in this.

Equally, I feel like at this point Teimana Harrison has been tried and tested; for me, he doesn't cut it at int level but would love to be proven wrong. I would sooner see our Underhill included. He's been learning alongside Lydiate and Tipuric for the past few years so he can't be too bad!




Though I agree that the selection for the Arg tour is that much more appealing, if I was offered 1 ticket to 1 match on either tour, I would choose a Lions test (even if the result of the series is a given).



Adam Hastings/Bath Rugby - Adopted Player 2016/17

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 08:31
Agree about Devoto but it's not limited to him, for me the fact that he wanted to cancel his move shows he is a bit fickle.

Underhill will have learnt well with Tipuric, Lydiate, Baker et al but he is still very early in his career, even an England tour is a big step for a flanker. He would be better off with Eddie than Warren.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:03
When will the Eng tour squad be announced?

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:17
There's 4 players I'd like to see go and take part in every game: Underhill, Maunder, Slade and Merchant.

Dunn and Ellis deserve to go from Bath.

TH and second row looks pretty weak without Launchbury, I imagine Ewels and the young Quins second row will be going. Can't really think of another EQ TH playing at a high level? Moon? Cooper-Wooly? Lahif? Ruskin?

FB will be the most interesting selection, I'm really hoping Brown won't be included. Who else deserves to go? Marshall, Woodward, Mallinder, Lozowski or maybe an outside shot Homer?

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:19
Quote:
Boldngrey
When will the Eng tour squad be announced?

I was pretty sure it was today at lunchtime but can't find anything confirming that.

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:28
Quote:
by
Quote:
Boldngrey
When will the Eng tour squad be announced?

I was pretty sure it was today at lunchtime but can't find anything confirming that.


2 minutes time

 
ShortyinBurnham
ShortyinBurnham (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:37
England squad announced - no Wade, Cipriani or Roko! But Underhill is

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:37
Forwards: Will Collier (Harlequins, uncapped), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, uncapped), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, uncapped), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 3 caps), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap), Dylan Hartley - captain (Northampton Saints, 84 caps), James Haskell (Wasps, 75 caps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 8 caps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, uncapped), Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 42 caps), Matt Mullan (Wasps, 15 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 55 caps), Sam Underhill (Ospreys/Bath Rugby, uncapped), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 50 caps)

Backs: Mike Brown - vice-captain (Harlequins, 60 caps), Danny Care - vice captain (Harlequins, 71 caps), Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish, uncapped), Nathan Earle (Saracens, uncapped), George Ford - vice captain (Bath Rugby, 35 caps), Piers Francis (Auckland Blues/Northampton Saints, uncapped), Sam James (Sale Sharks, uncapped), Alex Lozowski (Saracens, uncapped), Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints, uncapped), Joe Marchant (Harlequins, uncapped), Jack Maunder (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 25 caps), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks, uncapped)

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:38
They only play 2 tests and no other games. Eddie only needs a squad of 28/30 at the most to travel -
5 porps
2/3 hookers - Taylor
3 second rows - Launchberry, Ewells, Attwood
4/5 back rows - Haskell, Robshaw, Wood, Underhill, Ewers, Hughes

3 SHs - Care / Simpson / Robson
3 FHs - Ford / Loswoski
3 centres - Slade
5 back 3 - May, Roko, Yarde

So fill in the gaps!

EDIT: Think the previous post made mine irrelevant!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 09:42 by Dorset Boy.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:40
When Eddie doesn't like someone, he really doesn't like them, does he?

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:43
No Marlon Yarde either

17 forwards & 14 backs
A number of players well off most people's radars I suspect.
Will they all get game time?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 09:47 by Dorset Boy.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:45
LH: Genge, Mullan
HK: Hartley, LCD
TH: Collier, P. Hill, H. Williams(?)
LK: Ewels, Launchbury, Isiekwe
BR: B. Curry, T. Curry, Haskell, Wood, Robshaw, Hughes, Underhill

SH: Care, Maunder
FH: Ford, Lozowski, Francis
CN: James, Mallinder, Marchant, Slade
OB: May, Earle, Brown, Solomona, Cokanasiga


Feels like a pretty small squad.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:48
by - it's 31 players for just 2 matches. I'd say that's a large squad.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:49
Quote:
hasta
When Eddie doesn't like someone, he really doesn't like them, does he?

And when he does like someone he really does like them! Mike Brown travels as the only specialist full-back as far as I can tell - though I have to admit there's 4-5 names in there that I've never heard of.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:51
I think Brown's past it, but given the total lack of experience (Cokanasiga, Earle, Solomona) or brains (May) I can see the reasoning to keep him.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 09:56
Possibly Lozowski or Mallinder to drop into fullback?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:00
I see the reasoning for him to tour - same as Haskell - and that is to pass on his experience, ensure that training is absolute high-intensity and that no-one gets above themselves. I can also see that the next 3 players in line to replace him at full-back are all on the Lions tour and all 3 are very young, so there isn't necessarily a desperate need for Eddie to groom his successor on this tour or to take a full-back just for the sake of it, when you've got Lozowski and Slade who can do a serviceable job there.

Another reason for taking Brown may be to spend some quality time teaching him skills such as holding the ball in two hands.

I really like the squad Eddie has picked though. The uncapped players have got some of the very best role models - Robshaw, Ford, Launchbury in particular - to play alongside and learn from.

 
ELT
ELT (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:10
Seven back row forwards but only two hookers seems a very strange balance to me.

Isiekwe, another Saracens product, is reckoned to be an outstanding prospect.

I'm surprised he's taking both Curry twins but not Ewers, who does offer something quite different from Robshaw or Wood. Perhaps EJ see him as one of those players, like Attwood for example, who are excellent at premiership level but not quite good enough at international level.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:15
Josh Beaumont, Joe Simpson, Dan Robson and Tommy Taylor are going to be feeling a bit sore too.

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:20
Only two scrum halves is a bit odd for me! Chuffed for maunder, he seems to make very few mistakes and his service is excellent, but Robson and Simpson may be a bit miffed! Maunder deserves to go, but I feel Robson especially is a real talent; could it be due to psychological strength or something? Or is maunder actually better equipped for international? He was only 20 this month...

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:27
An excellent squad, despite a surprise or two (no Taylor or Robson, thought he had hinted at taking Z Mercer?).

From a Bath point of view very sad that Roko is left out and think that Catt potentially offers more than Mullan.

As for fullback - Mallinder, Slade, Lozowski could all do a job there, so maybe Eddie has experimentation in mind?

PG

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:31
Well if Glen Ella can't coach Brown to run with ball in two hands then there is no hope

Some real left field selections there but very surprised that Zach, Wade and Robson haven't been included

At S/H can only think that Eddie sees Youngs and Care as there for the foreseeable future with the likes of Maunder then coming through so Robson and Simpson have missed the boat

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:35
Eddies second generation backs I was unaware off.

Piers Francis age 26, 10,12
Joe Cokanasiga age 2 (according to the L.I. site) Wing. Big lad!
Denny Solomona Wing
Nathan Earle Wing, 15

Add to that Losowski and Teo

Eddie certainly has a few surprises and existing backs plenty of competition. Shame its not a longer tour.

Very pleased to see Underhill in there.

 
ELT
ELT (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:36
I think there could be a few conspiracy theorists at Wasps: no Launchbury for the Lions, and now no Wade, Robson, or Taylor for England.

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:43
Quote:
ELT
I think there could be a few conspiracy theorists at Wasps: no Launchbury for the Lions, and now no Wade, Robson, or Taylor for England.

Maybe Garland and Jones are massive fans of Cov City FC?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:47
I know Eddie is currently still in honeymoon mode and can do no wrong, but I find this sort of provocation a bit pathetic.

"We have picked the best squad we have available"

He has the world's biggest playing pool at his disposal, so he can afford to sacrifice a few players like Cipriani, Wade, Robson as motivation fodder for others, but it's just insulting to everyone's intelligence, let alone the players themselves to imply that someone like Solomona is currently a better player than Wade, for example, or that Maunder is better than Dan Robson.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:53
Our midfield is actually looking quite strong for the foreseeable future.

Slade, Merchant, JJ, Manu, Lozowski - all of these guys will be coming into their late 20s, early 30s for 2023.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 10:58
Quote:
Optimist
I know Eddie is currently still in honeymoon mode and can do no wrong, but I find this sort of provocation a bit pathetic.
"We have picked the best squad we have available"

He has the world's biggest playing pool at his disposal, so he can afford to sacrifice a few players like Cipriani, Wade, Robson as motivation fodder for others, but it's just insulting to everyone's intelligence, let alone the players themselves to imply that someone like Solomona is currently a better player than Wade, for example, or that Maunder is better than Dan Robson.

I guess so, it could just be a throwaway line. Given its only 2 games and the lions are on and where we are in the cycle, it isn't really the primary objective to have the 'best squad' is it, not if you read it how you did.

I wonder who out of that lot could end up with the lions after the current lot have been bashed up, Launchbury, Hartley, Ford?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:03
Cokanasiga is very highly rated at Irish.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:18
Agree about Solomona Opti, looks a little like he is catching strays, obviously still can't make his mind up about wings and Full back. Wade has to be in the same category as Rokko doesn't matter how many tries you score, if you look weak in defence your out.

Must be something else going on with Wasps players one of Robson and Simpson should be there.

Is he bringing these youngsters along to look at attitudes I wonder, in the same way he did with Devoto who also looks binned for good.

 
Nick4219
Nick4219 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:28
Hello All,

Joe Cokanasiga is 19 and a very big lad. He has been excellent for Irish this year albeit in the Championship but has real power going forward and lovely hands and good offloading skills.

He can bounce off defenders 2 or 3 at a time and is definately worth blooding on the Argentina tour. I for one hope we can keep hold of him if we get promoted back to the Prem but I think he could well come on to a lot of clubs radars after this if he plays.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:29
"We have picked the best squad we have available"

I think the following XV could give that team a run for its money -

Catt
Taylor
Brookes
Attwood
Beaumont
Kvesic
Morgan
Ewers
Robson
Cipriani
Devoto
Hill
Wade
Goode
Roko

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:36
Quote:
Optimist
"We have picked the best squad we have available"
I think the following XV could give that team a run for its money -

Catt
Taylor
Brookes
Attwood
Beaumont
Kvesic
Morgan
Ewers
Robson
Cipriani
Devoto
Hill
Wade
Goode
Roko

Assuming the RFU could stump up the airfare, perhaps they could make it a 3 match series

 
timfrombrighton
timfrombattle (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:43
Surprised to see the Curry boys make the tour ahead of some gnarled old lumps but if you pick one you have to pick both, as they're identical. Unless you toss a coin or give the spot to the one who can drink 20 pints then punch Gavin Henson the hardest.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 11:59
Shame not to see Robson, Wade, Roko and Mike Haley the Sale fullback who I think has been very good the last couple of years and was a standout on the Saxons tour in South Africa last year too.

Intrigued by some of these selections though with Cokanasiga, Earle and Mallinder perhaps called up as potential players ahead of already established good talent like Wade, Roko and even maybe Devoto.

Interested than Yarde is not in that squad too despite Eddie suggesting with his selections that he is better than Roko and defensively sound as recently as the Autumn Internationals.

Interested to see how Piers Francis gets on. A very good acquisition for Northampton as he looks excellent for the Auckland Blues, keeping Ihai West out of their team atm. Was hoping we may go in for him as plays 10/12 but I suppose missed the boat now and have Freddie coming in instead.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 12:35
Just heard a great quote from EJ:

when asked if there would be a hangover from the last game of the 6N:

'not at all, half of them don't even know where Dublin is'

 
ilovebathtime
ilovebathtime (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 12:58
I don't get Jones's logic with Wade. He's bought in Mallinder to the squad who every team now targets because he can't tackle on his left side, Ford is more and more getting targeted as well, so if you are not picking Wade because of his defensive capabilities then that seems to be a rule that only applies to him and Roko.

Is Jonny May's or Yarde's defence really better than either Wade or Roko? I just don't see it.
What I do see is 2 wingers in this country who can make a try out of nothing and win a game that would otherwise be lost. I've seen both Roko and Wade do it time and time again this season. I couldn't say the same about May, Yarde or even Norrell.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 13:03
For the first Test I would like to see:

Genge, Hartley, Hill, Launchbury, Ewells, Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes. Care, Ford. May, Slade, Marchant, Solomona. Brown
Replacements: Mullan, C-Dickie, Collier, Isiekwe, Underhill. Maunder, Lozowski, Cokanasiga

If that goes well, one or two of the replacements might be considered for a start in the second.

PG

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 13:42
Quote:
P G Tips
For the first Test I would like to see:
Genge, Hartley, Hill, Launchbury, Ewells, Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes. Care, Ford. May, Slade, Marchant, Solomona. Brown
Replacements: Mullan, C-Dickie, Collier, Isiekwe, Underhill. Maunder, Lozowski, Cokanasiga

If that goes well, one or two of the replacements might be considered for a start in the second.

PG

Same, though would prefer Earle in for Solomona who I feel has been incredibly hyped up because hes a controversial selection.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 14:00
Quote:
by
Same, though would prefer Earle in for Solomona who I feel has been incredibly hyped up because hes a controversial selection.

Well... that and 10 tries in 13 games.

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 14:36
I think a key point that Jones made in his announcement has been missed in this discussion.

He has deliberately picked a lot of players that are young, untried or both to have a look at them.

All of the of the players named here as unlucky or better than those going are either already of a similar age to the established squad or have already been looked at and/or discarded.

He said he was looking for more players that are as good as or better than the current squad, which by definition excludes those that have been to the England camps and not established themselves.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 14:42
Quote:
Tiger in the Bath
I think a key point that Jones made in his announcement has been missed in this discussion.
He has deliberately picked a lot of players that are young, untried or both to have a look at them.

All of the of the players named here as unlucky or better than those going are either already of a similar age to the established squad or have already been looked at and/or discarded.

He said he was looking for more players that are as good as or better than the current squad, which by definition excludes those that have been to the England camps and not established themselves.

Fair point, I had a chat with that Laurie Fisher bloke a couple of weeks back in my local pub and he said the same thing i.e EJ will take a whole load of new youngsters, with a backbone of experience.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 14:45
Whether he said that or not, TitB, I think it can clearly be inferred from the selection. What annoys me is that he can't help having a dig at certain players by saying something self-evidently untrue like: “We have picked the best squad we have available".

If a 2-0 series win were required for England to avoid being in the All Blacks' group for the next WC, would he have picked the same squad? Of course he wouldn't.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 14:47
No wade or Roko? Not sure what more Wade has to do...

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 15:04
[www.espn.co.uk]

Wot EJ said about new players

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 15:46
Quote:
BathMatt53
Not sure what more Wade has to do...

Grow 18 inches, put on 2-3 stone and start running through people rather than round them - that should do it.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 16:08
Quote:
fat lock
Quote:
BathMatt53
Not sure what more Wade has to do...

Grow 18 inches, put on 2-3 stone and start running through people rather than round them - that should do it.

Don't even have to run through them, into them would be enough to get picked.

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 16:30
Quote:
Optimist
Whether he said that or not, TitB, I think it can clearly be inferred from the selection. What annoys me is that he can't help having a dig at certain players by saying something self-evidently untrue like: “We have picked the best squad we have available".
If a 2-0 series win were required for England to avoid being in the All Blacks' group for the next WC, would he have picked the same squad? Of course he wouldn't.

Fair point, but EJ is a canny man.

My question to him would be best for what?

Best to win the next two games for sure? I think he'd admit no. Best to continue the development of the squad to win the world cup? He'd say yes to that I think.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 16:32
Never quite understood these tours.

All the way to the SH just to play 160mins of rugby.

At least make it a proper effort. Especially in Argentina, exhibition matches even, growing it in the provinces etc.

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 17:04
Experience of playing overseas is the obvious gain, but also squad development in terms of understanding the EJ regime and bonding with players form other clubs. The latter will be much more by being united in a foreign environment than training camps in the UK

 
Poking With Sticks
Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 17:05
Quote:
Optimist
...but it's just insulting to everyone's intelligence, let alone the players themselves to imply that someone like Solomona is currently a better player than Wade, for example, or that Maunder is better than Dan Robson.

Whilst I agree with that in principle I have a sneaky suspicion that being an international selector is more complex. They always talk about the psychological aspect which I personally don't see. But consider this: at the beginning of the season Maunder was an academy player with no 1st XV experience. Due to injury he was dropped in at the deep end and played from the first minute as if he was a seasoned pro. Maybe Eddie wants to see if he can make another leap.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 17:10
Well Exeter have certainly improved Devoto's chances it seems....

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 17:35
I get the impression that, based on Eddie's comments on Mallinder below, the difference between Roko/Wade being a bit defensively weak is that as they aren't as young as these u20's sort of age lads who have been drafted up to the senior team.

Perhaps he thinks that with time on a tour with them Gustard can teach them where as for Wade and Roko they are a little bit too old for that level of learning as it would change their game more? Who knows.

His comments on Mallinder were;
"Good player mate. I think he can play 15 and I think he can play centre and I think he can potentially play on the wing. Big, strong lad. Good in the air. Massive kicking game. Kicks the ball 60m. Needs to work on his defence, but for a young player that's okay."

Robson can feel hard done by for me. He is an in form version of Danny Care is he not? Quick service, snipes well and has a decent kicking game. Only difference is he doesn't have 70 odd England caps or a reckless streak...

 
MESSAGES->author
callmeMrTibbs (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 18:01
Quote:
BathMatt53
Well Exeter have certainly improved Devoto's chances it seems....

Whereas Kyle's international career has really taken off at Wasps...

(Returning to league allegedly)

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 18:09
If solomena really was on £50k a year then Kyle had better tighten his belt. Was a great player for us when he played but unfortunately that just wasn't enough...

The Argentina team will certainly separate the men from the boys - just hope that those going aren't going to get destroyed (like the 18 y.o. Twins). Mallinder may also have to learn how to tackle if Eddie really does put him on the wing opposite Juan Imhoff...

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 18:10
whats happened to Jack Clifford, out of favour or injured

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
20 April, 2017 18:20
Quote:
woodpecker
whats happened to Jack Clifford, out of favour or injured

Just had shoulder op.

 
MESSAGES->author
shendy (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 09:08
A chunk of Mallinder's defensive frailty may well come from a shoulder injury - he probably needs some time to let that heal and get confidence back in the strength of it.



There ain't no Sanity Clause

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 09:25
I also don't expect Mallinder to play on the wing, especially opposite Juan Imhoff who is not part of the Pumas squad as does not play in Argentina!

Cordero however will be their real threat as he is electric and a really intelligent player whether at fullback or wing.

 
West Wilts Wanderer

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 15:55
Real tough decision not to take young Zach. I now fear for him as he has been at the end of one of Jones' little chats.

[www.independent.co.uk]

Jones' constantly is quoted as saying he wants players who are desperate to play for England, I cannot believe that is not the case in young Zach. Whether single handedly dragging England U20s to the title is not enough for Mr Jones', love to know what more he wants from him.

I hope its not to bulk up and run through walls Vunipola-esque. Zach's mobility, guile and footwork give us something a little bit different in a number 8.

Still with only 3 in the Lions and 2 in Argentina (no longer counting Ford), hopefully others will get a needed summer break. Will Kahn and Charteris be topping up tans in the pacific?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 16:03
Zach is very young and is going to the U20s RWC. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 16:13
Zach was a bit ordinary for United the other night, and has been left out of 3 successive starting XVs and also now the match-day squad. He's missed out on Argentina. I wonder if he's exhausted or possibly even if he's got a bit ahead of himself?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
21 April, 2017 23:54
Quote:
Big Dog
I also don't expect Mallinder to play on the wing, especially opposite Juan Imhoff who is not part of the Pumas squad as does not play in Argentina!
Cordero however will be their real threat as he is electric and a really intelligent player whether at fullback or wing.

I had missed that they had to play in Argentina these days TBH. It was Eddie who said he would have Mallinder there - it does seem a bit crazy given the wingers left at home.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 16:11
The BBC reported Solomona has pulled out of the tour this morning, what chance a recall for Roko or Wade? A chance for Eddie to get Roko towards those 20caps he alluded to when he took over the England job. I am watching that space...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 16:30
Quote:
Clarkey3k
The BBC reported Solomona has pulled out of the tour this morning, what chance a recall for Roko or Wade? A chance for Eddie to get Roko towards those 20caps he alluded to when he took over the England job. I am watching that space...

I would like to see Roko rewarded for a good season with a call up tbh - especially given the chat Eddie gave it about getting him some caps and feeding him into the setup. I am not holding my breath though as seems more intent on youngsters and playing people out of position than getting the traditional speed merchants who burn someone in attack in the England team.

I wonder though on a tangent - whether Solomona not being fit to play for England this summer means he will miss out and have to live here another 2 years to qualify??

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 16:31
I also find it funny and somewhat insulting to Roko that Yarde - who was supposedly better than Roko last summer in Australia and during the 6 Nations is no longer anywhere near the team either?!

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 16:48
The 5yr residency rule only applies after 2020 so plenty of time for Solomona and maybe a few others yet. It looks like Wigglesworth has got the shirt though, a 33yr old scrum-half for a winger, baffling...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 16:49
The Argentina games have changed a little bit since Eddie first selected the squad, following the World Cup draw. If he doesn't pick experienced operators to replace Haskell and Solomona, he's an idiot. Ben Morgan and Wade or Roko for me.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 19:28
I sat next to Ben Morgan's dad on the flight to Edinburgh for the European finals, he too would like to see Ben in Argentina though he isn't holding his breath. Nathan Hughes is Billy's understudy at the moment...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 19:49
Quote:
Clarkey3k
The 5yr residency rule only applies after 2020 so plenty of time for Solomona and maybe a few others yet. It looks like Wigglesworth has got the shirt though, a 33yr old scrum-half for a winger, baffling...

Not sure about that Clarkey:

From ESPN: "Australian boss Jones had named Gloucester's New Zealand-born scrum-half Willi Heinz in last week's training squad, but the 30-year-old has dropped out -- to be replaced by 27-cap half-back Wigglesworth."

This is for the squad preparing for the Baa baas match. 2 scrum halves already named for Argentina, so Wigglesworth may not be needed. Jones has said he will make a decision on Solomona when he gets another medical update.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
22 May, 2017 20:36
Thanks for the clarifications PG, I wouldn't wish to add to the plethora of fake news out there...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2017 21:42 by Clarkey3k.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
23 May, 2017 10:00
Exeter's Maunder is in the squad so will join up at some point. Wigglesworths' Sarries colleague Ben Spencer may be called up ahead of Wigglesworth too I'd imagine for the actual tour.

I'd be surprised if he doesn't take more than 2 scrum halves out to Argentina though?

I do worry that England are going to be extremely green if they lose say Robshaw and Ford or someone to Lions callups. Will be like the England u23's team playing at this rate!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
23 May, 2017 10:13
11 Lions in action this coming weekend - someone's going to get a phone-call before the end of Sunday....

Nowell
Daly
Haskell
Lawes
North
Owens
Davies
Williams
Murray
O'Mahony
Stander

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
23 May, 2017 14:54
Paul Hill and Marchant out of the Argentina squad... Max Clark anyone?



Adam Hastings/Bath Rugby - Adopted Player 2016/17

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
23 May, 2017 21:07
Final squad for Argentina to be announced on Monday 29/5 after AP final and Barbarians match...



Adopted players: [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
24 May, 2017 04:15
Quote:
quanco
Paul Hill and Marchant out of the Argentina squad... Max Clark anyone?

Devoto or Thompkins would be the more likely options I'd have thought; though Francis apparently took a bad concussion at the weekend too, which may open up for 2 centres coming in; Clark's probably in a group (with Jonny Williams and Sam Hill) if there's another injury / call-up



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England to Argentina
24 May, 2017 06:29
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
quanco
Paul Hill and Marchant out of the Argentina squad... Max Clark anyone?

Devoto or Thompkins would be the more likely options I'd have thought; though Francis apparently took a bad concussion at the weekend too, which may open up for 2 centres coming in; Clark's probably in a group (with Jonny Williams and Sam Hill) if there's another injury / call-up

The NZH reports that Francis wasn't concussed at all and will be playing for the Blues against the Chiefs this weekrnd.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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