rugbyunion
Latest News:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League

 

MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Concussion
30 April, 2017 18:12
First of all, two apologies. Firstly that I couldn't find the thread from December to necromance it (mods can feel free to merge if they wish), and secondly for yet another WT high horse on player welfare, and specifically concussion.


Matu'u was clearly unconscious for about 5-8 seconds or so. After the clash of heads, he had no control over his body on landing, no muscle tone in his left arm as it going outwards, no muscle tone in his neck, or in his abdominals until after he's patted by whichever bath player it was. You can see him regain consciousness when he blinks, and contracts his ab.s.

The medics missed this at the time, which I still regard as fair enough. However, the fact the they then returned to the pitch specifically to haul him off a couple of minutes later means, by definition, that they had seen this on to review of the footage. So by the time they took him off, they already knew that he didn't need an HIA as he's already failed it.

If the above is correct, (rather than pure random chance, and no HIA, meaning no replacement whilst he was assessed) then returning him to the pitch is neglicgence, pure and simple. It is an order of magnitude worse than the George North fiasco from December. At least there it was conceivable that they weren't even thinking of concussion, and simply assessing his neck, using an HIA as an excuse to replace him for 10 minutes. That is inconceivable for Matu'u.

In my opinion, Saints should have been fined, and docked a point or two, but got away with it by exploiting a loophole that didn't really exist then, and has been firmly 'closed' since. The medics at the time were merely guilty of an innocent mis-diagnosis.
In my opinion, Gloucester should face more severe sanctions, and the medics should be investigated by the GMC / CSP for medical negligence.

The problem with these cases isn't so much the chronic issues secondary to repeated concussion (though they certainly are a valid concern) it's with second impact syndrome: [en.m.wikipedia.org]
Take note of that first paragraph
Quote:
Second-impact syndrome (SIS) occurs when the brain swells rapidly, and catastrophically, after a person suffers a second concussion before symptoms from an earlier one have subsided. This second blow may occur minutes, days or weeks after an initial concussion,[1] and even the mildest grade of concussion can lead to SIS.[2] The condition is often fatal, and almost everyone who is not killed is severely disabled.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 18:28
A sliver lining to a double concussion I suffered playing last year was that I learned a great deal about the subject. I agree with everything you've said WT and it's actually very pleasing to see someone so passionate about player safety. Hopefully protocols continue to be improved and incidents similar to those you mention happen less and less.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 18:34
Wow, do the players know this risk? I know there is a lot of pressure on players to perform, especially as it comes up to contract renewal date but surely any sensible person would protect themselves and insist on going off and staying off in this kind of situation?

 
wombles222
wombles222 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 18:50
Cut and pasted from my post on the Saints board. Hope this will be of interest;

Watched the game, and as a medical professional myself there is more than enough evidence to suggest a Transient Loss of Consciousness (TLoC). Immediate laxidity of muscles, no evidence of controlled lowering of his head to the ground, and a clear 2-3 seconds of lying face up with his eyes closed and expression neutral. As he regained consciousness he instinctively winced, which is a more autonomic reaction to pain rather than one of voluntary control.

"His TLoC secondary to a head injury (HI) is clerly evident. The direct blow results in consciousness being lost by diffuse axonial stretching. As part of national guidance by one of our most utilised bodies NICE this immediately requires imaging studies to be taken, ideally in 1 hour post injury, but as long as recovered adequately without a number of medical "red flags" it would be acceptable to do in 8 hours post event.

Chances are it will be what we deem a minor traumatic brain injury (mTBI) With of course some unpleasent after effects that can last months after, but overall in isolation does not contribute to increased morbidity or mortality. However what you do not want to miss is the much rarer but more devastating Traumatic Intra-cerebral Haemorrhage (TICH)

It is not the fault of the officials, the medical teams are responsible and have access to replays and views that should of guided their choice. The moment a TLoC has occured in this setting HIA's become irrelevant, the player must be removed from the game, with focus being on assessing to dictate when a CT should take place."

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 19:14
I don't claim any expertise but having seen the incident live at the ground bi was surprised he was allowed to play on without a HIA and not at all surprised that a few minutes later he was hauled off for one.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 20:16
@wombles222 - as a fellow medical professional, agreed entirely, though I felt it was longer than 2-3 seconds before he winced (I was trying to be generous talking about blinking), that could the be the slow-mo effect, or counting from head contact rather than floor contact.
Oh, and I thought it was fMRI preferred to CT, with CSF testing for Glucose metabolites.

WD - for me I wasn't surprised he was allowed to stay on initially, the guys with him initially would only have seen him conscious, and won't have had access to the TV pictures at that stage. The negligence came with returning him to the pitch 10 minutes later.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 20:40
Although his arm was loose he keeps his leg bent and actually raises it of the floor by a couple of inches before putting it down again.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
wombles222
wombles222 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 20:55
@Which Tyler: I agree that fMRI is a much more useful test for TBI, however as far as i am aware due to fiscal and time considerations in the ED CT is an acceptable choice, and recommended by NICE.

However I guess that is not to preclude the obvious imaging benefits of MRI, and if clubs have access to non radiation exposing modalities such as MRI then that would be preferable.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 21:29
@wombles222: Fair points, well made.

I've said for a few years that I'd like the RFU to fund an fMRI machine, somewhere relatively central within England, (say Oxford), getting priority bookings for rugby players. IIRC cost would be circa 3M to set up, and about 50k p.a. to run (+staffing).
I'd like the EPS (preferably all prem) players to then get an annual fMRI to set their base personal baseline, with further tests after failed HIAs.

You could probably run that for a few decades for less than the financial cost of a single liability settlement (potentially with a 7th zero), show that this really is being taken seriously, and massively increase research - even better if co-funded with a university.

An organisation can't really be held responsible for poor practice before it was established to be poor practice, but it could be considered negligent if they hold to them after they've been shown not be good enough. Trouble is, that's a genie they may want kept in its bottle.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 30/04/2017 21:38 by Which Tyler.

 
wombles222
wombles222 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 21:50
Quote:
Which Tyler
Fair points, well made.
I've said for a few years that I'd like the RFU to fund an fMRI machine, somewhere relatively central within England, (say Oxford), getting priority bookings for rugby players. IIRC cost would be circa 3M to set up, and about 50k p.a. to run (+staffing).
I'd like the EPS (preferably all prem) players to then get an annual fMRI to set their base personal baseline, with further tests after failed HIAs.

You could probably run that for a couple of decades for less than the financial cost of a single liability settlement, show that this really is being taken seriously, and massively increase research - even better if co-funded with a university.

Financially it deffo makes sense! My medical indemnity covers me for unlimited levels with regards to liability per case. I looked at 10,000,000 cover per case, but the Practice manager and senior partners thought unlimited was better, which goes to show how much financially a liability settlement could potentially cost!

Centralised fMRI would be useful for delayed scanning for lower risk individuals and your idea is very intuitive, sensible and forward thinking!

However in the acute cases such as today we need to consider access to neurology and its location from the scanning unit which with the expensive and current time consuming nature of MRI is difficult. Historically I have found that accessing neurology beds quite hard after diagnosis of TBI via CT, especially when considering TICH. Which of course is never ideal as although we can do nothing about the primary insult, we can actively manage secondary injury. And it is in these cases that correct medical assessment is needed to identify our red flags, thus activating our medical protocols that require further focus in Rugby. Today being a prime example.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 22:05
As a chiropractor my liability is 5M and likely to increase in the next couple of years. Equally, as a chiropractor, I'm unlikely to do really serious damage without being full-on negligent (regardless of whatever prof Ernst says about the matter).

Agreed that my suggestion is more for the baseline and final return-to-play, for incidents like today then the single most important thing is to keep the @#$%& off the damned pitch! Obviously in the first hour or two, then more local scanners would be needed (and are already available, often for circa 220 for a standard MRI - it's the urgency that's difficult).

Today, I thind that rugby's pitch-side protocols are good enough (based on current research). The problem is that the protocols weren't followed. It's making sure that players are fit to play again before being asked to do so that we can do a lot more for within the current knowledge base.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 22:26
Quote:
Which Tyler

Today, I thind that rugby's pitch-side protocols are good enough (based on current research). The problem is that the protocols weren't followed. It's making sure that players are fit to play again before being asked to do so that we can do a lot more for within the current knowledge base.

This is the bit I am baffled by. It seems that medical practice and procedure is clearly followed under peril of being 'struck off' in medical establishments up and down the country.

That is until they get involved with sport, (football and rugby in particular), at which point integrity goes out the window. Harlequins, Northampton and now todays incident being examples.

If you take an incident like Mourinho at Chelsea with, far too much tolerance of the managers stance was given when he had no idea if the player was injured or not.

Once you decide there is an issue protocols must be followed surely irrespective of the desire to get a result.

 
EddieDillsworth
EddieDillsworth (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 22:57
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but Dave Attwood's work on concussion with the School of Clinical Sciences at the University of Bristol is worthy of mention here. See:
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
30 April, 2017 23:38
Is it me - or is someone knocked out or hit hard in the head requiring assistance pretty much every single game these days? Worrying

 
wombles222
wombles222 (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 00:35
Quote:
dannyf2
Is it me - or is someone knocked out or hit hard in the head requiring assistance pretty much every single game these days? Worrying

Let us not underestimate the potential negative impact of playing a frivolous game with head injuries. In medicine we think we may of mapped the brain, but essentially we are still in the "early doors" stage of understanding what is by far and away the most complex, detailed and awe inspiring organ in our fragile bodies!

What we do know is that head injuries require an experienced hand at the tiller of every patient. That can effectively manage those affected with the most up-to-date evidence based medicine available, and not let external pressures influence their decision making process. Easier said than done as evidenced in cases within our sport!

I cannot help but feel that the next logical step in our game (and maybe all pro sports) is that medical teams become independent, non allegiance based entities at ALL games, and enter the field of play when they deem it necessary to treat and protect the players without fear of reprisal from the teams involved.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 00:40
Quote:
wombles222
I cannot help but feel that the next logical step in our game (and maybe all pro sports) is that medical teams become independent, non allegiance based entities at ALL games, and enter the field of play when they deem it necessary to treat and protect the players without fear of reprisal from the teams involved.

Agree, given my above comments, but that is a sad indictment on the medical profession that they are influenced by factors other than the care of their patient.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 03:40
Interesting discussion. From my experience in clinical trial design in drug development, I can say that arranging rapid access to a machine for fMRI iassessments is not an issue if the funds are available. It should not be a huge problem for the Prem/RFU to set up a central contract for these services with a currently existing facility. Indeed, I can think of a number of academic units who would would be very enthusiastic to get their hands on the raw data.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2017 06:37 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 07:53
A really interesting post from St Kenneth on the Sinners board which I've cut and pasted here. It might answer some questions we all have (and raise others).

"This season, I've worked on a number of Premiership rugby matches for BT Sport.

Unlike what some people may think, the coaching staff are not sitting in the stands watching BT Sport on their laptops, but only a feed of the main two cameras that are covering the match. On the main TV gantry on the halfway line, there are normally two cameras that follow play continually. Camera 1 is a wider shot following play from the centre line and camera 2 is a close up version of Camera 1. The remaining cameras around the pitch are generally only recorded and used as replays and not often cut-up live during play. These extra cameras, normally at ground level, are not part of the feeds given to the coaching staff. The coaches are only able to replay on their own computers, the pictures that are coming in from those two cameras alone.

Similarly, those two camera feeds are connected to a hard drive recorder to be used in conjunction with ipads on the touchline, for medical staff to view back any incident that may have happened, to check on player welfare. Again, camera 1 and 2 are the only camera angles given to the medical staff, so as in the Bath v Glos match, where the concussion was clearly evident by the camera angle behind the try line, the view from the half way line may not have been so obvious.

I believe the thinking of not giving the two sides the main 'programme out' feed is that it stops any form of 'coaching' from the pundits. Say Leicester have a cunning plan (like passing and catching the ball and always cheating) that their opponents haven't noticed, then it would be wrong for one of the pundits to point out the defensive deficiencies rather than the opposition coaches seeing it for themselves.

So with the limited feeds that are given to the clubs, without any multi angle replays but just a constant stream of the two main cameras, then it may take a little bit of time for the information that a player has suffered a concussion, to get back to the medical staff. Eventually, the medical staff can replay on their touchline ipad, the footage from the hard drive, and make up their own opinion that there then needs to be some form of intervention. Naturally, any replays from the other cameras, that are being shown on a big screen, give the medical staff help in pointing out a potential problem, which they can then go back and assess with the footage that they are privy to.

You may also notice that the feed that goes to the big screen is not 'programme out' that the viewer at home would see. Whilst there may be replays shown, there is no tactical analysis shown, highlighting where certain players were/should of been standing etc, for the same reason of not wanting to help the coaching teams by highlighting things that they haven't worked out for themselves.

The system isn't perfect, but I'm sure any delay in assessing a player is not through any underhand ploy by the sides, just the length of time for the medical staff to be alerted that there may be something that they haven't instantly noticed, due to the angles that they are given.

Hope that makes some sense."



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 09:15
I saw that from St Ken, but it's mostly about the coaching, and I don't think anyone is holding the Glos coaching team to account here (unless it's an "environment of fear" type thing, ALA blood-gate / Chelsea).

We've been told a few times this season that there is one medic who's sole job is to watch the match feeds, he gets instant access to the TV pics, and cameras 1&2, can see the big screen, and can request any further footage he wants.

Equally, most of us are fine with the med staff not seeing the pictures live; they're busy dealing with their patient, and won't get the chance to be shown the pic.s until they're back at their post, when the TV medic can show them what he's found. Obviously, if that's found quickly, then I assume they can be told through an ear piece.
The shocking aspect of this case isn't that Matu'u was removed 2 minutes too late, it's that he was returned to the pitch 10 minutes later; and we know that they don't have the Saints' excuse of "but we didn't see the pictures" (nor did Saints, but they still used it and got away with it).


Ken's post is interesting in and of itself; but not especially relevant to this specific incident, IMO.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 09:58
Quote:
Which Tyler



In my opinion, Gloucester should face more severe sanctions, and the medics should be investigated by the GMC / CSP for medical negligence.


Quote:
Second-impact syndrome (SIS) occurs when the brain swells rapidly, and catastrophically, after a person suffers a second concussion before symptoms from an earlier one have subsided. This second blow may occur minutes, days or weeks after an initial concussion,[1] and even the mildest grade of concussion can lead to SIS.[2] The condition is often fatal, and almost everyone who is not killed is severely disabled.

WT
If you're so concerned I believe anyone can refer a doctor to the GMC for them to investigate.
GMC guidance
Simply find out who the doc was - looked a bit like Dr Widdowson ex doc of our parish - and refer him.
I'm no expert but I expect a recognised expert in the field with years of experience and expertise will be able to defend his actions to other experts. Whether that would ever be enough to satisty keyboard warriors I suspect is doubtful.

 
MESSAGES->author
trikidiki (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 12:05
I don't have a recording to watch it back but didn't Carly have to point Matu'u to where the line-out was rather than him jogging back up the pitch. Surely that should have sounded alarm bells.

Quote:
I believe the thinking of not giving the two sides the main 'programme out' feed is that it stops any form of 'coaching' from the pundits. Say Leicester have a cunning plan (like passing and catching the ball and always cheating) that their opponents haven't noticed, then it would be wrong for one of the pundits to point out the defensive deficiencies rather than the opposition coaches seeing it for themselves.

I think we're seriously in trouble if the coaches need to take advice from Ugo. Besides if they wanted to hear the TV pundits it wouldn't take much for them to take out a BT Sport subscription and watch/listen online.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2017 12:09 by trikidiki.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
01 May, 2017 20:26
Presumably the TMO could have seen the camera angle quickly that showed him knocked out and spoken to Carley through his earpiece to advice that a knock out had almost certainly occurred and therefore the player be removed from the field for an assessment. The medic on the side could also be informed.
He was being treated on the field for a number of minutes so time was not a factor.

All down to better communication from TV truck to officials to doctors.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 11:22
Quote:
fat lock
WT
If you're so concerned I believe anyone can refer a doctor to the GMC for them to investigate.
GMC guidance
Simply find out who the doc was - looked a bit like Dr Widdowson ex doc of our parish - and refer him.
I'm no expert but I expect a recognised expert in the field with years of experience and expertise will be able to defend his actions to other experts. Whether that would ever be enough to satisty keyboard warriors I suspect is doubtful.
Surprisingly, I know the regulations and guidance.
I'm also damned sure that this will be looked into, by the RFU, and probably by WR and the GMC/CSP; though to make a personal complaint I would need to know who actually carried out the HIA, which may not be the same Doc as attended on the pitch.
If this whole affair gets brushed under the carpet, then I may well launch a complaint myself - I'm confident it won't come to that though.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 13:56
WT
I appreciate this is an area you feel strongly about, and I'm pleased player welfare is becoming more prominent in everyone's minds.
However, I have some issues with the way this thread has developed:

1. Why do clubs want someone who may have been concussed, whose performance will be impaired, on the pitch? The suggestion is that there is great pressure on the assessors to get the player back on the pitch. Where is this pressure coming from? If I were a DOR I don't think I'd want such a player on the pitch when a more alert (if a bit tired) replacement is available.

2. It's being suggested that professionals (doctors) are unable to do their job independently from the pressures being applied by the club to play concussed players. I don't accept this. Since Wendy Chapman's case sport doctors have been under ever more scrutiny to be professional and the GMC has issued guidance on this aspect (guidance which I believe Dr Widdowson was involved in producing). I think those responsible for player welfare will be aware of the issues you type about, and consider them in their assessments.

3. It could be that the process for assessing concussion is flawed - as I understand things designing an accurate repeatable test to assess such things in medicine is difficult, since there is so much variability between individuals. However, if professionals have followed the guidance and performed the assessment to the best of their abilities why are they being criticised? If they didn't - where is the evidence, other than conjecture, that they deliberately undertook an inaccurate assessment to allow the player to return to the field of play?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 14:42
FL:
1. They may, they may not; they may not feel that the concussed player is concussed; they may feel that the concussed player is less injured than the injured player he may have replaced. These sorts of decisions get made by all clubs about all injuries every week.

2. We are all human, we are all subject to bias, we are all subject to pressure, we are all prone to making mistakes; no-one is perfect. We also know from Wendy Chapman's case, and indeed, the Eva Carneiro one that medics ARE subject to pressure, and some fold, whilst some stand their ground and pay a price for that. The pressure may be direct from the coach, it may be direct from the player, it may be indirect from the environment they find themselves in every day, it may be indirect from their personal bias, preferring speed over accuracy, or simply not wanting to risk losing their job.

3. Of course the process for assessing concussion is flawed - as it is for any and every medical condition, whether pitch-side or in the office. Not even a retrospectascope is 100% accurate.
IMO pitchside HIA is (currently) fit for purpose, and is in line with best-practice. The problem with this case is that the protocols weren't followed.
It is beyond ceonceivable that the Glos medical staff didn't see the video evidence.
If they saw that evidence, then it is beyond conceivable that they considered there was no case for suspicion of LoC.
If there was suspicion of LoC then no HIA is even performed - it's already been failed regardless of any further testing. Equally (as was the case in the GNorth incident, and was IMO key to that case) if the HIA test has been done absent of the video footage, then the HIA test has not been completed.


In essense - if the Dr had seen the video footage, then Matu'u doesn't even get an HIA; he's just take off. If the Dr hadn't seen the video footage, then Matu'u doesn't even get an HIA; he's just taken off. The only possible way for Matu'u to return to the rugby pitch is either the Dr didn't follow the protocols, or the Dr did follow the protocols, AND saw the video evidence AND decided that there was no cause for suspicion that Matu'u had lost consiousness - in which case the Dr is outright wrong.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2017 14:54 by Which Tyler.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 17:12
WT
1. So the conversation goes:
Medic - he's concussed.
DOR - I don't believe you - he looks fine to me.
Medic - please show me your medical degree to make that assessment.
DOR - I don't need a medical degree - it's perfectly clear he has to play on since XXX has just knackered his knee.

Medic now has two options:
1. Absolutely sir, I'll ignore all my training, experience, ethics, morals and professional standing and do what you wish, in fact I am but your safety net to allow you to damage people.
2. He mustn't play on, if he does I have no option but to report you to the club owner and RFU.

In the world I live in I know the route the doctors I know would take.

Maybe I'm fortunate not to have encountered the untrustworthy doctors that seem to cluster into sports medicine jobs. At least it keeps them away from lying to 'normal' patients, and the chances of me needing a sports medicine opinion is so close to zero now that I feel pretty safe.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 17:42
No
Absolutely no-one is claiming that that is how it's gone.


Now then - as you're obviously so good at hypotheticals; what's the hypothetical scenario where a medic can see the video evidence of Matu'u going down unconscious and deciding that there's no ground for suspicion that he's unconscious?
Bear in mind this thread includes 2 medical professionals who's opinion is that there was "clearly unconscious" or "there is more than enough evidence to suggest a Transient Loss of Consciousness"

ETA: I will (try to) disengage for a while at this point; as I'm well aware I have a habit of dominating such discussions, and genuinely do want to read other people's opinions on the situation at hand.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2017 17:58 by Which Tyler.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Concussion
02 May, 2017 18:44
Ah, well WT your hypothetical is relying on individuals seeing the same video as other individuals first off. Then its assuming that only one interpretation is possible if the same images were seen in different circumstances on different equipment.

Too many unknowns for me to be as sure as others.

I get concerned by lapses in care for players, but I also get concerned at how easy it is to make allegations and assumptions when we don't know the full details.

However, the other side of the coin is that if something looks like a duck ....................


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 

Bath Poll

Where do you think we'll finish this season?

See results > Submit >>

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?