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ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

2016/2017
06 May, 2017 17:18
Started with a really positive vibe and all the players talking about how amazing training had been. Initial results positive and some great rugby. Performances go downhill but still getting wins. Then stop getting wins, particularly away from home. End of the season was very inconsistent and unconvincing as some of our big name players return and then get "rested".

Lots of injuries and strangely quiet on the transfer front. I think I'd give this season a 5 out of 10.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 17:22
Given where we were last season I'd say 6/10. But such a disappointing second half. Flashes of quality but poor defence and total lack of consistency in team selection (mostly due to injuries) killed us. Fundamentally - we haven't won away in the league since October.

 
bathstigg
bathstigg (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 17:45
Champions cup rugby achieved but should have been in Challenge cup final and 4th rather than 5th. Optimistic that we are on the upward curve with Auterac, Thomas and Walker like new signings next season. Underhill and Burns great additions but as mentioned away form must improve especially vs bottom half sides.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 17:48
5/10 seems fair .

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 18:06
Champs cup against a change of management and a truly hideous injury situation - it's a 7/10 for me given those circumstances. The top 3 were head and shoulders above the rest to be fair.

Oh and Kahn and Roko in Greenwoods team of the season, well done chaps

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

(P.s. No I'm not an apologist, just think the lads did pretty well in the round)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2017 18:35 by BathMatt53.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 19:38
One thing that bothered me was the longer TB and TM were in charge the worse we got!
Obviously mitigating factors like injuries (devastated us) but it must be said, we look more and more disorganised as the season went on.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 19:39
Also, our defence went from being very, very tight to ridiculously porous.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 19:50
Given the squad we have I'd say 4 out of 10 for this season. Quality of coaching has been questionable, but for the sake of some continuity I hope BC keeps his pet consultant away for the summer.

Losing our best player gives me little hope of improvement for next season.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 19:53
Below average? That's ridiculous!

'Given the squad we have'...we weren't able to put most of them on the field most of the season.

As for our best player, we are losing Kahn? First I've heard of it.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 21:42
I don't actually remember much great rugby, early in the season or otherwise.

Definitely went downhill​ over the season, but that often happens.

Must keep Blackadder one if not two years regardless of performance, otherwise we'll never get anywhere.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 22:03
I'd agree with that DW. There was resilience early on, but a very restrictive game plan. We started developing a game plan and noticeable approach later on, but really struggled with injuries, consistency and defence. At least there was an approach. The biggest issue I had with Mike Ford last season was that there was no clear strategy or game plan.

I think the squad is pretty solid, and we've brought more young players through well this season (Ellis, Dunn, Mercer, Clark, Obano) than I can remember, but I'm very concerned about 12 and 3. Tapuai's form has dropped off a cliff and I'm not sold on how we're using him. Our set piece and restarts have massively improved this season, but are still too inconsistent. Also, let's get rid of the co-captains concept and appoint an actual proper club captain. My vote is Garvey.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 22:32
Quote:
BathMatt53
Below average? That's ridiculous!
'Given the squad we have'...we weren't able to put most of them on the field most of the season.

As for our best player, we are losing Kahn? First I've heard of it.

If you don't think GF was far and away the best player in the squad I think you've been watching a different team the last few years,

With him gone we will be weaker next season.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 22:39
I think Ford's a fantastic individual, but we tended to overly rely on his individual skills rather than a pattern of attack. And, not to be all BoB about this, but having Steenson at 10 hasn't exactly slowed Exeter's try-scoring recently.

We are almost certainly not going to win things next season. What I'd like is the team to develop, Burns to settle in, a top 4 finish, a coherent, consistent squad who know how the team is supposed to play, satisfactory away performances and the platform for a tilt at the title the year after.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 22:42
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Below average? That's ridiculous!
'Given the squad we have'...we weren't able to put most of them on the field most of the season.

As for our best player, we are losing Kahn? First I've heard of it.

If you don't think GF was far and away the best player in the squad I think you've been watching a different team the last few years,

With him gone we will be weaker next season.

He may well be the 'best player in the squad' .... but he hasn't been a particularly good performer for us this year. If he weren't already an International he'd have got nowhere near the England squad this year. So it's kind of irrelevant how good he is, in theory. You could probably say much the same about JJ, and it is worrying that a bit of smoke is developing around him. I do hope that George's departure doesn't signal the exit of his England mates, but it's not surprising that an International contingent should be something of a clique. They spend the most exciting times of their rugby lives together, so it's quite possible that JJ would feel unsettled by George going. Equally, there may be smoke without fire.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
06 May, 2017 23:46
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Below average? That's ridiculous!
'Given the squad we have'...we weren't able to put most of them on the field most of the season.

As for our best player, we are losing Kahn? First I've heard of it.

If you don't think GF was far and away the best player in the squad I think you've been watching a different team the last few years,

With him gone we will be weaker next season.

I think we will be different next season, but I really feel that George Fords leaving process was so drawn out it was inevitable, that it would affect not only the backs but the club in general.

He is a mercurial talent but he has a mass of work to do keep his place in the England squad. There is only so long you can be averagely good in your club before Eddie looks elsewhere.

With our backs, Khan, Ford, JJ, Watson Rokko we should have been ripping teams to bits.

I mentioned elsewhere that we should perhaps be looking at a specialist backs coach, the reason I say this is that over the season, if we had scored 20 more points we would have won 3 or 4 more games. OR if we had conceded 20 less points we would have achieved the same result.

George is an excellent 10 but he doesn't run the defence like Farrell does, forgetting what Burns can do as a better % kicker, I think his defence will be as important.

There is no point GF creating two tries if we concede 3!

 
BB&W 1865
BB&W 1865 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 05:13
6/10 for me.

Great first half of the season overshadowed by a poor second half where we lost 8 out of 12 Prem games, including losing to 4 of the bottom 5 teams.

Injuries and George Ford's situation were mitigating factors, but question marks must remain over the coaching team on the basis we got worse as the season went on. For me we still clearly lack a winning mentality and roll over far too easily away from home (often a sign of lack of collective mental strength). Further, being utterly outclassed by Wasps and Saracens shows us we are a long way off the top teams.

Individually, Catt, Dunn, Stooke, Ellis, Z Mercer, Khan and Homer exit season with reputations enhanced. Denton, Cook, Charteris, Ford, Priestland, Joseph and Watson have performed below expectations.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 06:14
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Below average? That's ridiculous!
'Given the squad we have'...we weren't able to put most of them on the field most of the season.

As for our best player, we are losing Kahn? First I've heard of it.

If you don't think GF was far and away the best player in the squad I think you've been watching a different team the last few years,

With him gone we will be weaker next season.

I think that you missed the title of the thread OB. Ford wasn't the best player for Bath Rugby this season - Kahn was. The various club awards and journo's teams of the season will show you that. Ford is a great player but he sure didn't play great for us this year - in fact Freddie had more of an influence on Tigs so your opinion about next year is just speculation at this stage.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 06:45
Last year we were 9th amid a split dressing room and toxic atmosphere.
With all of that, an unhappy FH and a coaching crew coming in after pre-season with their own ideas on how to play rugby, I expected 7th-8th; we got 5th; so I'm happy with that.

You don't learn a new style of play mid-season and expect it to be perfect immediately; we became less well drilled the more we shifted style from Toby's basics to the Todd and Tab.s show; and as injuries took their toll (mental fatigue, and players trying to introduce a new gameplan whilst not being able to train properly). I doubt that we've had a single full, opposed training session this season.
And yet we still leapt from 9th to 5th.

It was always going to be too early to judge Tod and Tab.s at this stage; you just can't go around judging a coach who's not yet had a pre-season with the players to actually get his plan drilled into them. Really you need to give them 3 years - unless they've lost the dressing room or have simply shown themselves as incompetent - Todd and Tab.s are neither.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 08:39
That adds up WT, completely agree

Looking back is there anything anyone thinks the Coaches might have done differently?

Possibly tried to draw a line with George's position much earlier and brought Rhys into the game-plan more often when he was fit but you could understand Todd's approach and to an extent Bruce clinging on to the contract terms didn't give Todd much room to do anything else

The rise of Zac, Stooke and Ellis have to be massive pluses - for me it is a 7/10, overall we met minimum expectations with strongly encouraging signs for the greater consistency of performance and results expected for next season

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 09:01
7/10 is fair.

1 win away from making top 4.
1 win away from going into the final against a team we just slaughtered.

No preseason with our head coach.
An absolutely ridiculous number of injuries.
One of the most influential players deciding to leave after the fallout from the previous season.

The start of the season was really strong and it was a shame to see such a drop off.

But there loads of positives to take from this, young players coming through are looking great, Blackadders influence is starting to come through, our a league team did a great job against Quins. Next season we should be striving for top 4 and making the play offs in Europe.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 09:48
Bad: Terrible away performances, particularly against bottom sides; inconsistency of performance from week to week even when things stayed the same; the core of young backs we were building around were absent for far too much of the season; terrible luck with front row injuries.

Good: Despite the above, we were two wins out of 30 games away from playoffs and a final. Kahn, Mercer, Clarke, Homer really came good I think.

We're not as good a squad as Wasps or Sarries, but we ARE as good as Exeter or Leicester, so we should be well in the hunt for top 4 for next season.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
tigerburnie
tigerburnie (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 09:57
Interesting thoughts, you were one result away from us in the end. No good blaming injuries, everyones had those to contend with, worryingly part of the game these days, can't remember the last time we saw Manu on the pitch, you just have to dig deep.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 10:01
7/10 is ridiculous. 5/10 is being kind. Somehow finishing in 5th, whilst barely playing much competent rugby week after week is more a reflection of how terrible the clubs below us have been this season.

The last 80 minute performance we put in was against Worcester in September. The only times we've looked good in the last few months was when we have had to chase a game after being schooled for 40-60 minutes. Holding onto the ball and not sleep walking through phases helps in that regard.

That said, the injury situation was ridiculous and a major contributor.

Quote:
Stuart Anderton
but we ARE as good as Exeter or Leicester, so we should be well in the hunt for top 4 for next season.

You're deluded if you think we're as good as Exeter.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 10:04
Stuart I don't see how we can be as good as Exeter when we are 25 points below them, they have just set a record for most try bonus points in a row with 86 tries scored against our 52 and we lost 10 when they lost 4. On paper our players are as good but as a team we clearly are not. For me the top 3 have been streets ahead this year.

Our stats aren't a million miles from Tigers though and I agree that we should be aiming for top 4 again.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 10:05
Quote:
tigerburnie
No good blaming injuries, everyones had those to contend with, worryingly part of the game these days, can't remember the last time we saw Manu on the pitch, you just have to dig deep.

Every club has injuries but Bath were on another level this season, so yes we can blame injuries.

Facing a full strength Bristol away with 18 first team players missing and having to sign 12 players as injury cover mid season says it all.

We played Sale yesterday with a 4th choice loosehead, 5th choice hooker and 4th choice tighthead as one example.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2017 10:08 by ballsout.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 10:25
Quote:
Stuart Anderton
We're not as good a squad as Wasps or Sarries, but we ARE as good as Exeter or Leicester, so we should be well in the hunt for top 4 for next season.

I was sort of with you until this statement. The table never lies, we finished 25pts behind Exeter and are simply not in the same league as them or Wasps/Sarries for that matter.

The most concerning thing is we are falling further behind them. No point being the team that just scrabbles for 4th place and an away semi.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 11:35
Last year we were 2/10. Improvement from 9 to 5 in my book makes it nearer 6/10.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Lost Soul
Lost Soul (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 11:47
7/12 for me.

People forget at the beginning of the season we played some pretty good stuff and we're ridding high in the table and for the Exeter fans amongst us they were struggling
Exeter turned it around and good on them. Regrettably we faded and in certain matches like the Bristol one looked like a team of strangers

Squad is pretty good a tweak or two would not harm, but not as essential as some seem to think. With hard men like Atwood and Garvey available and a few others maturing it should solidify.

Maybe the new patterns TB is trying to impose and returning players not being clear how to play in this setup are cause for concern
The worryingly high injury count specifically in the front row to the starters or 1st replacement is definitely a cause for concern. Did we overplay Thomas and Auturrac last year whilst still relatively young.l?

More worryingly ar the romours of unrest again. JJ and Watson I believe are best mates and for both to be off form or out of sorts with Bath is a little concerning.



To end on a positive note I am pleased to see the arrival of a few youngsters with potential such as Zach, Ellis and Clark along with the maturing of Ewels and Dunn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2017 11:48 by Lost Soul.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 13:53
Quote:
ballsout
7/10 is ridiculous. 5/10 is being kind. Somehow finishing in 5th, whilst barely playing much competent rugby week after week is more a reflection of how terrible the clubs below us have been this season.
The last 80 minute performance we put in was against Worcester in September. The only times we've looked good in the last few months was when we have had to chase a game after being schooled for 40-60 minutes. Holding onto the ball and not sleep walking through phases helps in that regard.

That said, the injury situation was ridiculous and a major contributor.

Quote:
Stuart Anderton
but we ARE as good as Exeter or Leicester, so we should be well in the hunt for top 4 for next season.

You're deluded if you think we're as good as Exeter.

Think somehow I can just about see why you're not a top rugby coach

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 14:00
Is it his positive mental attitude?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 14:29
To add another perspective - consider how good we should have been last year if one assumes that Ford's plan would have been to build on 2nd place. To implode quite so spectacularly and comprehensively must have meant some very big fault lines. The ship has been stabilised despite still carrying a mutineer. I'm convinced we will be a much better side next year, and importantly (for me) an attractive one to watch.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 14:43
I think that you need to look up 'mutineer' opti. Todd et al consistently lauded GFs attitude - there was never any question that he refused to obey the orders of those in charge?

 
Lost Soul
Lost Soul (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 14:56
I think GF has been professional in the extreme. He made his decision, kept his own council, played with dignity and to. My knowledge has never criticised Bath Rugby or it's fans
He has decided to leave for personal/family reasons.
If it were not for the connection with MF then I doubt we would be so critical

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 17:19
Not a great fan, but am currently reading SCW’s book ‘Winning’.

In it he makes the point about ‘energy sappers’ and ‘energisers’ within a team – those whose presence lift the team and those whose presence drag.

No matter how professional George’s attitude, if he’s going because he is unhappy with the club, then I can only see him now as an ‘energy sapper’ and having a negative effect on the team.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 17:24
Quote:
Boldngrey
Not a great fan, but am currently reading SCW’s book ‘Winning’.
In it he makes the point about ‘energy sappers’ and ‘energisers’ within a team – those whose presence lift the team and those whose presence drag.

No matter how professional George’s attitude, if he’s going because he is unhappy with the club, then I can only see him now as an ‘energy sapper’ and having a negative effect on the team.

So we haven't won the title in recent years because of the energy sapping Burgess, Devoto, Fearns, Kyle Eastmond etc? That Hastings scuppered it for us this year as well then - we would have had top 3 maybe...

There is surely always going to be some less content people in all teams?

[As an aside, COML has a few energy sappers of its own!]

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 17:38
Small margins.

read the book.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 18:15
We are probably too close & too committed to assess objectively how we will prosper next season. We may do well but so may Tigers, Saints, Quins & Gloucester, possibly even Newcastle, Worcester & Sale. We probably have a stronger squad than the last 3 will muster but probably no better than the others. Therefore, it all comes down to coaching & organisation, not to mention injuries. The top 3 will no doubt be the ones to beat next year. The only one who might slump are Exeter because their playing strength is no better than others but they have a tremendous club ethos which fully compensates. I will be disappointed if we don't make the top 6 it it's not a given by any means.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 18:30
Doesn't the diverse number of opinions on this thread sum up the fortunes of our club?
In spite of everything, what a club needs is cohesive and commited work as a team on the pitch and a united support off it.
That is what successful teams are made of.

In my very humble opinion Tod Blackadder and the coaching team have it in them to do their bit for the squad on the pitch and it is up to the rest of us to support what they create.
Who are we to know all the ins and outs of making a team work?

Yes, we are at the moment behind the top 4 in that respect, but I feel optimistic of better things to come.

 
OBinexile
OBinexile (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 19:07
I think what you're saying Johnny F is that we need strong and stable leadership? Or am I on the wrong thread?

OBinExile

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
07 May, 2017 19:44
(Sm53)
Quote:
OBinexile
I think what you're saying Johnny F is that we need strong and stable leadership? Or am I on the wrong thread?
OBinExile

thumbs down

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 10:40
I am worried that we got more points than we deserved and were very lucky to finish where we did. I saw a few young players come through but worry about our front row and the back-up 9. I would like "Revolution" but am concerned it will be more a case of "Evolution" with minor changes to the squad.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 10:55
The absolute last thing we want is revolution. Small, incremental improvements please. We need stability of coaching and of the core of the team.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 11:01
If I look at the table I would give us a 7, if think about what I've seen with my eyes, 5.

Leaving aside all the reasons/excuses

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 12:10
Quote:
cb2
I am worried that we got more points than we deserved and were very lucky to finish where we did. I saw a few young players come through but worry about our front row and the back-up 9. I would like "Revolution" but am concerned it will be more a case of "Evolution" with minor changes to the squad.

Really? After all those points that we lost at the death such as Exeter at the Rec? I think that the last minute wins (Exe at Sandy Park, The Clash) and losses balanced out quite well in the end.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 12:21
I was thinking more about early season where we found ourselves in a lofty position which flattered us somewhat. You would have to think that Saints, Quins and Glaws will improve next year, so we will need to get better just to remain in the same position. We are quite a Long way off being the envy of Europe.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 12:53
Quote:
Boldngrey
Not a great fan, but am currently reading SCW’s book ‘Winning’.
In it he makes the point about ‘energy sappers’ and ‘energisers’ within a team – those whose presence lift the team and those whose presence drag.

No matter how professional George’s attitude, if he’s going because he is unhappy with the club, then I can only see him now as an ‘energy sapper’ and having a negative effect on the team.

It's a very good book and some great anecdotes but SCW really should be a bit more generous with giving credit to others, not much he puts out is original thinking and his energisers - sappers is the same as the well established Radiators and Drains model, just different words

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 13:00
SCW didn't take credit for it, it's something the Marines (I think?) say to him.

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 13:10
Quote:
hasta
SCW didn't take credit for it, it's something the Marines (I think?) say to him.

Correct. SCW got it (and acknowledges the fact) from the Eng training week with the Marines. I didn't want to explain further and get into the book too heavily.

If their is an energy sapper (or sappers) in the group it could also suggest why at times the team has played like 15 strangers.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 13:41
Does he specify which players in the England squad were of each type?

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:08
No.

However, it was widely rumoured at the time (1999) that the player the Marines "would not want to go into battle with" was a Bath legend.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:20
World Cup-winning coach Woodward has recounted how, after a session in 1999, a Marine officer told him: "There are men in your squad we wouldn't go into battle with.

"It's not about their skills, it is about their attitude and their effect on the team.

"One wrong team player can sap all the energy from the group."

As England built from the disappointment of the 1999 World Cup, Woodward recognised he required a squad full of "energisers" and by 2003 there was "not an energy-sapper in sight".

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:30
But if George is a sapper why does Eddie love him? Or does he turn on 'sap mode' when he returns home because he perceived Bath in a negative light? We have all worked with glass half empty types (joy sponges), so I can see where they are coming from.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:40
Well, Eddie didn't fire his Dad.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:56
So who were the 'energy sappers' in 1999?
Quite a long list of 1999 squad who didn't make 2003 including:
Richard Cockerill and Austin Healey
Jerry Guscott (clearly too old, retired in 2000)



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 14:56
Very much doubt if George is a "sapper'.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 15:03
Guscott and particularly Healey I reckon.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 15:10
Cockers!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 15:10
Victor Obogu?

Phil De glanville?

both missing by next world cup



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2017 15:26 by woodpecker.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
08 May, 2017 21:09
5/10 for me. After being in the top 4 for most of the season, falling away at the death, amid the GF leaving trials and tribulations.

It would be a 3.5/10 if not for the emergence of Zac, Beno and Max C. The development of Ellis and Ewells and the solid shifts by Tom H.

To be honest, I cannot say whether TB has put his stamp on the side, the inconsistent performances have been a huge frustration, and it seems that our season, like last year has been negatively affected by off the field issues. That is unforgivable.

I am enthused by the GF FB swap, I honestly think we have the better deal, many Tigers fans think similarly.

As for next year, top 4 is once again going to be tough. Can anyone seeing Chiefs, Sarries or Pests being dislodged? Me neither. So we will be battling with Tiggs, Quins, possibly Saints and even Falcons for that spot.

I think we miss Hooper, far more than most people wish to admit. Scrap this co captain plus club captain cr@p, give it to either Garvs or Atters and go again.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 00:24
I would include Sale in that battle seeing the players they've signed. A great deal depends whether we will sign anyone. If not with deficiencies in the front row, scrum half & centre top 6 will be a struggle.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 06:49
Like Baxter says, the quality in the premiership is scary - certainly would scare me off from investing given the money needed to compete now

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 07:25
Would you say Exeter have a better squad than us all round or are they better coached and at working as a team. Give TB a chance preseason to build a team in his mould that play as a team and then judge. What would Baxter do with our squad in 3-5 years. I believe we have a very good squad that just aren't playing to their potential. Yes the odd front rower, SH and Centre might make the squad complete but I guess Sarries, Wasps and Exeter can give you some weaknesses in their squads at a couple of positions.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 09:00
Pre xmas [8/10] I was delighted with our performances and position, post Xmas frustrated and disappointed [4/10] but relieved to stay in the top 6. On paper we have a fantastic squad containing Lions; 6N internationals; SH giants but the whole has been less than the sum of these parts. Injuries have disrupted our team but the likes of Dunn, Ellis, KPN, Mercer Z, Stooke and latterly Obano have emerged and will be better in 2017/18 for this game time.

Our midfield has been v disrupted this season - we miss Kyle's creativity at IC and JJ has been a shadow of his former self. We desperately need a "strong and stable" 12/13 partnership like Wasps, Chiefs and Sarries. We have good back 3 players and quality at 9/10, I just wish Cook would play consistently well.

The TB/TM partnership hasn't convinced me yet - look what EJ has done in a v short time with a disparate group of players - one would have thought it easier to get messages across and patterns established when you're with the players every day even with injuries. Perhaps we are just a challenger team after all.

The comparisons with Exeter whilst painful - take note BoB - are relevant and I would be delighted if we were matching them, perhaps that should be our measure of success in 2017/18. I will be cheering for Glaws and Sarries at Murrayfield this weekend, if only...



Adopted players: 2017-18 T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 11:28
Lansdown - "We Underestimated Premiership"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2017 13:39 by Mike the Taxi.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 12:27
Quote:
Clarkey3k
Our midfield has been v disrupted this season - we miss Kyle's creativity at IC and JJ has been a shadow of his former self. We desperately need a "strong and stable" 12/13 partnership like Wasps, Chiefs and Sarries. We have good back 3 players and quality at 9/10, I just wish Cook would play consistently well.
Wait, what?
Chiefs are string in the midfield - but to say they have a stable partnership, rather than a lottery draw with every team announcement is being generous in the extreme.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 14:07
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
Clarkey3k
Our midfield has been v disrupted this season - we miss Kyle's creativity at IC and JJ has been a shadow of his former self. We desperately need a "strong and stable" 12/13 partnership like Wasps, Chiefs and Sarries. We have good back 3 players and quality at 9/10, I just wish Cook would play consistently well.
Wait, what?
Chiefs are string in the midfield - but to say they have a stable partnership, rather than a lottery draw with every team announcement is being generous in the extreme.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek with S&S remark however the Chiefs have a group of quality players at 12-13 who have been playing together regularly, are interchangeable and supported by Slade/Nowell in those shirts when required...



Adopted players: 2017-18 T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 14:12
Quote:
hemington
Would you say Exeter have a better squad than us all round or are they better coached and at working as a team. Give TB a chance preseason to build a team in his mould that play as a team and then judge. What would Baxter do with our squad in 3-5 years. I believe we have a very good squad that just aren't playing to their potential. Yes the odd front rower, SH and Centre might make the squad complete but I guess Sarries, Wasps and Exeter can give you some weaknesses in their squads at a couple of positions.

On paper we have a better squad than Exeter, but I think they are just better coached and are more of tight squad. Similar to Sarries, although they have a better squad than us as well.

Bath are simply less than the sum of their parts and we won't be successful until this is addressed.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 18:53
Quote:
hemington
Would you say Exeter have a better squad than us all round or are they better coached and at working as a team. Give TB a chance preseason to build a team in his mould that play as a team and then judge. What would Baxter do with our squad in 3-5 years. I believe we have a very good squad that just aren't playing to their potential. Yes the odd front rower, SH and Centre might make the squad complete but I guess Sarries, Wasps and Exeter can give you some weaknesses in their squads at a couple of positions.


On paper we have a better squad than Exeter, but I think they are just better coached and are more of tight squad. Similar to Sarries, although they have a better squad than us as well.

Bath are simply less than the sum of their parts and we won't be successful until this is addressed.



Absolutely agree with these comments. On paper our players certainly appear better quality than those at Exeter, Leicester and as good as those at Wasps and very close to Sarries as well. But what we produce on the pitch is way below their given talents, and neither is it consistent. Why?

I don't subscribe to its all the coaches fault, or injury disruptions as all sides have that, so it comes down to the only other major contributors, the players themselves. It is about time they realised their responsibilities and started to perform consistently. Someone like JJ can turn it on for England, but not for his club. Why?

Next season the coaches and the majority of the squad will be the same, with the youngsters having meaningful game time (wonder if they would have done so if Mike Ford was still here- discuss?), and the important addition of a top class talented flanker and an excellent fly half who is showing great form at his present club and who, most importantly IMO, wants to play for Bath.

People on this site poo- poo the notion of 'wanting it and playing for the shirt' but in my experience it is vital part of the psychological make up of a player of a team game, and him wanting to go the extra mile for his teammates. Teams who play for each other manage to often topple better quality sides by these efforts- and I unashamably point to Exeter who do this week in week out. Why can't Bath with all the advantages we enjoy, thanks mainly to the largesse of Bruce?

After a much better start to the season leading up to Christmas than most of us dared believe, I thought we could really go forward in the New Year and really push for honours. Since the home defeat to Exeter, we have barely got it together and have looked very feeble and at times toothless in attack. (See our tries scored column). Many games were lost through school boy basic errors and what hurt most, although statements coming out about how we learned from these games, we blatantly did not. The fact that after Xmas many fixtures were against those sides in the bottom half of the table, should have meant we could expect a top 4 finish for sure. But no. As other sides improved, we regressed and at best stood still. That is unacceptable IMV as were the awful displat at Bristol and Worcester.

Overall the season I can give it 5 out of 10 at the best, but probably more realistically a 4. We definitely have the potential to have 'could do much better' on the end of year report, and 'must try harder' on those of the players.

Time will tell, but in view of recent events and other sides strengthening their sides, I am not overoptimistic about next season. We should be top 4 but I believe 5 or 6th is the best we can hope for. Anything lower and Bruce could be a very angry man, and rightfully so IMO.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 21:24
I agree with much of your assessment BoB except for the much repeated notion that performance is NOT down to the coaches but solely the responsibility of the players, many of whom who for some strange reason have less moral fibre & the desire to play for the shirt than those at Exeter. If the coaches don't have any influence in this important area then why are the likes of Eddie Jones & Joe Schmidt so successful? However, I believe there is another factor which seems to have an influence & that is the club they are playing for. Leicester have won loads of trophies in the professional era whereas Bath hardly any. There seems to be something special about playing for a club with that reputation whereas failing with Bath is the norm.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
09 May, 2017 21:35
Such contradictions it's a joke. So Bath get 4/10 for coming 5th. Then 'the best we can expect is a 5th / 6th'. So they achieve the 'best that we can expect' and get a 4/10? Need to put the two together and try again BoB...C-

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 02:13
OK BathMatt, where do you expect us to end up next season? A score assessment for the season is as seen by the individual, and some might rate ours higher. However, reading most of this thread's posts, the majority either agree or closely align themselves to my thoughts and observations.

Bath Hammer your comment on playing for a club who EXPECT to win trophies and one that fails as a norm in the professional era, is IMO very pertinent. The culture of instilling a will to win must prevail. Nothing less is acceptable, even if it means playing 'stuff it up the jumper and kick your goals' type rugby. Like Sarries, who built their game plan on such boring tactics, but included resolute defense and a top class kick chase game, once regularly achieved, we can introduce more entertaining running rugby when the game allows it. Also, having a dominant pack is essential for any successful side and where Wasps IMO need to strengthen to be successful at the highest level.

I and I believe most of us want real, sustained success, not another season of rebuilding and consolidation (how many is it now?) and that means playing a tighter, harder working type of rugby. And yes, developing a mental toughness and united 'wanting it more' attitude amongst the players. I want us led by a tyrant of a captain who stands no nonsense and will not condone poor, mistake ridden play and choices. Until we make those sort of changes, we will only ever see the occasional flash of a good result and a continuance of the malaise of general underperformance by a star studded and expensively paid bunch of players in a disfunctional team.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 05:56
What I am saying BoB is that we should be setting a standard that we think we can achieve, most of us think top 4 is just about possible, and then seeing if we achieve it. If we do then we get a reasonable score, if not then we don't. As an example, if Newcastle had come 5th I suspect that most of us would have given them a pretty high score.

So, your prediction for us was 9th. Then above you say that the 'best' is 5th or 6th. We came 5th and you gave a 4/10. Can you not see the contradiction?

The reality is that, if we had started off badly and ended strongly into 5th we would be more positive and scores would have been higher. I am much happier than if I were a Glos or Saints supporter right now...or us last season.

I agree with all of the posters above, we need a period of consolidation, another year of building (whether we like it or not) if we are going to close the 20-odd point gap to top 3. We are owed nothing and teams around us will also want the same thing.

 
MESSAGES->author
Garbageman (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 08:54
If we are giving a score to reflect performance against expectation then a strong 5th and narrow cup semi defeat warrant 8/10 for me. I'd give 10/10 on that basis for top 4 and cup win - we were close to both. If scoring to reflect performance against best possible outcome then still 6/10. For those scoring 4/10 or lower where do you go if we fail to get top 6, or 9th as last season, or relegation? No minus scores allowed (as else you're not scoring from 10).

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 09:47
Quote:
Garbageman
If we are giving a score to reflect performance against expectation then a strong 5th and narrow cup semi defeat warrant 8/10 for me. I'd give 10/10 on that basis for top 4 and cup win - we were close to both. If scoring to reflect performance against best possible outcome then still 6/10. For those scoring 4/10 or lower where do you go if we fail to get top 6, or 9th as last season, or relegation? No minus scores allowed (as else you're not scoring from 10).

I agree. I think this season would be a solid 6/7 for me.

Much promise shown in patches but a little inexperience, the odd error (one missed tackle against Stade Francais) and a couple of more 80 minute performances and we could be in a playoff semi the weekend after next and the Challenge cup final on Friday night! The competition is just so tight in the Aviva Premiership now with all teams able to hold more than their own at home that the thing we really need to just improve is our away form and we will be a consistent top 4 side imo based on our squad.

From signings announced we certainly have a more talented playing squad than Leicester and Exeter imo - we just did not play well enough as a cohesive unit at times which let us down. A clean bill of health, a fresh season with a couple of good new faces and Bath will be a real team to compete in Europe and the Aviva Prem next year don't you all worry!!

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 15:11
No surprise that I don't agree with BoB.

Mental fitness can be improved through relevant training and practice. Ditto TCUP.
It is as plain as day that this team lacks the right coaching in those areas. If Todd and Tabs don't realise that, then they won't achieve what we want.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams

 
Boldngrey
Boldngrey (IP Logged)

Re: 2016/2017
10 May, 2017 16:16
Quote:
jayeatman
No surprise that I don't agree with BoB.
Mental fitness can be improved through relevant training and practice. Ditto TCUP.
It is as plain as day that this team lacks the right coaching in those areas. If Todd and Tabs don't realise that, then they won't achieve what we want.


Mental fitness is the difference between 15 men playing rugby and a team.

Team performance was vey good in the early season, but fell off towards the end.

Interesting that in the last few matches we looked better (team wise) when we rested some of the galacticos (eg JJ, Watson, George) and played second choices (eg Clarke, Homer Priestland.)


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