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HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 09:36
Something that may have gone under the radar yesterday was Tom Ellis being called up into the England training camp this week for the tour to Argentina.

[www.bathrugby.com]

Quite an impressive stat on the website too stating that he made 191 tackles in 20 Aviva Premiership appearances this year! Averages at 9.55 tackles a game!

Congrats to Tom! Doesn't seem to suggest he'll be selected for any of the game but hopefully it'll be a great learning experience for him with some of the senior England guys and it shows he is on Eddie's radar at least!!

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 09:43
Well deserved, hes a big unit and plays with a real physical edge on the pitch but from what I've heard it couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke. Really looking forward to watching him develop next season.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 09:53
He might make the 23 for the Baabaas game.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 10:25
Saw a Gatland comment that generally around 6-10 further players are called up to the Lions before/during a tour. I would expect more, this time around.

Suspect the England squad might see knock-on shake-ups.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 11:28
Brilliant achievement. His development has been one of the real highlights of this season.

Z Mercer has - rightly - caught the headlines. But the unseen work of Ellis in his breakthrough year has been mighty impressive.

A back row of Ellis, Underhill, Mercer seems good to me for a European Final in 2020!

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 11:36
Quote:
dr.bath1865
A back row of Ellis, Underhill, Mercer seems good to me for a European Final in 2020!

What a back row it would be too! We should really be excited about our back row prospects! The only issue is getting them all on the paddock enough throughout the year!

It does mean that with Flouw getting older and Faletau away on Wales Duty we have good cover and rotation options! Just need this sort of strength in a few more positions like the front row and midfield and we will be looking really good for the next few years!

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 11:41
Don't forget we need a young 9 coming through for 2020.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/cb2cb2/rainb03.jpg

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 11:54
I think Flo was starting to show the miles on the clock in the last couple of months. He needs careful managing, so it's great to see the next generation emerging.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 12:03
I agree Opti. It sometimes feels like he's trying to win the game on his own, which is just the kind of player that he is but hell be back to his very best if he's carefully rotated, with Underhill and Ellis able to slot in.

I'd also be tempted to play 6 Louw 7 Underhill.

If we want to play wide and fast, that'd be a fearsome prospect both in attach and in defence.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 12:45
Quote:
Optimist
I think Flo was starting to show the miles on the clock in the last couple of months. He needs careful managing, so it's great to see the next generation emerging.

Which is exactly why Underhill has been brought in I suspect. Unfortunately for Francois being the sort of player he is his body takes a lot of damage in the season and so someone to share that game time with at 7 who is of an equal or close to equal standard will mean he can be rested for those LV cup games and rotated at times during the Aviva Prem season too.

Plus what a learning experience in how to be a top 7 for Underhill. I suspect part of why he's agreed to come to Bath is the chance to learn from Flouw and then take over in time the 7 shirt I suspect. Plus there's Faletau, Denton and Garvey all great back row pros to learn from and other young talents like Ellis and Z Mercer to play with! What a team we could put out in the LV cup of our talented youngsters!

Here's hoping after learning off of Tipuric and Louw that Underhill proves to be the coup that I think he is!

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 13:46
Quote:
Optimist
I think Flo was starting to show the miles on the clock in the last couple of months. He needs careful managing, so it's great to see the next generation emerging.
I'm kinda hoping that he fails to make the Boks squads going forwards; he's basically not had a rest from rugby since joining us 6 years ago.
He finiches with us in May, then heads to South Africa for the June Internationals, from there straight into the QN, back to us for a couple of matches before the November Internationals.
At no stage do his body or mind get a break from training, and at no stage does he get a solid 4 weeks off without playing a rugby match... unless he's broken.

NSS he's showing miles on the clock; but give him 6 weeks on a beach followed by a pre-season and I think we'll see a new man.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
09 May, 2017 15:17
Well done to him.

The potential of the young guys coming through is most encouraging. The following have caught Eddi Jones's eye:
Catt, Dunn, Walker, Ewels, Ellis, Z Mercer, Underhill. Add in Thomas and Attwood already England internationals, plus other internationals Charteris, Denton, Faletau, Louw.

If we can keep them fit and with us for a few seasons, that will be s strength in depth to rival Sarries.

PG

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 11:58
Now called up Willi Heinz (who is 30 and has an English grandmother), and Jason Woodward to the England training camp.

This is just getting embarrassing. I know that players from the top 4 and Saints aren't available, but are there really not enough actual English players to make up a training squad for a meaningless friendly? Is the RFU just rounding up a few more fringe players to tie them in ahead of the rule changes?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 12:33
Plenty of calls that Woodward should have been in the squad for Argentina anyway (not from me); whilst Heinz is last-man-standing.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD


Beno Obano - 2016-17 adoptee
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=117

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 13:15
Woodward I do not mind so much. He was educated at Hartpury and has a lot of history here prior to even joining Bristol. He could be a really exciting fullback option for us in the future with Brown getting past his best! Adds nicely to our back three options with Watson, Daly, May and Nowell (not counting Solomona as don't wish for him to play for England overly).

Heinz however seems very strange... I suppose with Youngs out of Lions and England, Robson, Simpson, Wigglesworth, Spencer and the young Exeter lad all got games to play still he may be next in line. Even then you'd have to think there must be someone else? Anyone else?

Heinz has been good for Gloucester in Laidlaw's absence but I'd rather see a younger lad given a chance to train in the squad than a 30 year old Kiwi. Let someone who has represented the England u20's have a chance? Callum Braley for example or someone else that could do with a little inspiration and to train at the top level to spur them on a bit

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 13:22
So you are saying that we need 57 varieties before we go for Heinz?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/cb2cb2/rainb03.jpg

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 13:25
One strong aspect of Heinz's game is his box kicking and that is fundamental to England's game plan under Jones. With so many 9s being unavailable, I'd bet that Heinz is taken just to provide that platform for the other players to work off of, with no actual intention to develop Heinz for the future.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 14:21
Quote:
cb2
So you are saying that we need 57 varieties before we go for Heinz?

No I do think Heinz has been good this season in truth but I do (and I'm sorry for this pun) believe he is the beans on toast option for England at scrum half. He's a solid dish but never going to be your first choice so why not go for something a bit different that you could make great instead?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 14:25
Like who though?

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 14:30
Robson or Simpson

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 14:36
...neither of whom are available.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 14:48
Not for two tests 7000 miles away, no....

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:05
Not for the training camp this week. Which is all Heinz has been called up for.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:17
"so why not go for something a bit different that you could make great instead?"

I take that to mean a *future* England 9

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:37
Sure. And I'm saying who, given who was available this week, would you have picked instead?

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:43
Ok, and I've been going down the track of who should be a 9 that "England make great instead", ie long-term, not a training camp entry that might be no more than a gap-filler.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:45
Well there basically isn't anyone left who is 1st choice or England qualified...unless you bring in a real rookie but I'm not sure how that would help the training for the rest of the squad. He gets there by default I guess.

[good post on shedweb:

when you rule out teams like
Wasps
Exeter
Saracens
Tigers
Saints
London Irish
Yorkshire
England U20 players (who will be starting to focus on the JRWC)

Who else is there really?

Bath - Cook, Homer
Bristol - ?
Glous - Barley
Quins - Mulchrone (Care is in the squad, and Dickson is retiring)
Newcastle - Young
Sale - Mitchell
Worcs - Arr, Baldwin

I mean none of them are starters. Is it not better to choose the player with experienced to give more in training then?
Look at the 9's involved in the top 4.
Wasps - Robson, Simpson
Exeter - Maunder, Townsend,
Saracens - Spencer,
Tigers - Youngs, Harrison

Jones most likely just wants a "Sparring partner" type player for the training ground.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/05/2017 15:48 by BathMatt53.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 15:57
Quote:
DownSouth
Ok, and I've been going down the track of who should be a 9 that "England make great instead", ie long-term, not a training camp entry that might be no more than a gap-filler.

Your examples weren't available!! Which was what we were discussing. Good grief.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 16:01
This training camp is only for the Barbarians game, not the Argentina tour where Maunder and Care are selected.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 16:14
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
DownSouth
Ok, and I've been going down the track of who should be a 9 that "England make great instead", ie long-term, not a training camp entry that might be no more than a gap-filler.

Your examples weren't available!! Which was what we were discussing. Good grief.

Okey. Steady on Hasta. I've been going down a tangent route of "who might make Eng great", rather than who's just going to be a sparring partner.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 16:59
Quote:
DownSouth
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
DownSouth
Ok, and I've been going down the track of who should be a 9 that "England make great instead", ie long-term, not a training camp entry that might be no more than a gap-filler.

Your examples weren't available!! Which was what we were discussing. Good grief.

Okey. Steady on Hasta. I've been going down a tangent route of "who might make Eng great", rather than who's just going to be a sparring partner.

This was more my original point. If they are only calling him up to give both sides in training touch a 9 to play off of why not call up a young talent from the 20's? Like my original suggestion of Calum Braley a former England 20's captain?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
15 May, 2017 17:24
I would say that having Heinz there would enable everyone else to just get on with their training rather than be distracted by a tutorial for someone who isn't quite ready.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
16 May, 2017 11:36
9 is an important link and if you go with a rookie against the Baabaas, then you might not see much of the outside backs. I can see the reasoning and 30 is not a bad age for a 9.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/cb2cb2/rainb03.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Ellis called into England Training Camp
16 May, 2017 11:38
Danny Care will be playing against the BaaBaas, and/or someone from the losing semi-finalists.


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