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stuckinlondon
stuckinlondon (IP Logged)

Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 12:26
Whilst I can see G Mercers credentials for Captain of the club, I would rather see the club captain being one of the starting XV.

With Underhill, Louw being the 2 obvious 7's next year I can't see G Mercer being a regular starter.

Having listened to Todd's review he was praising Ewels leadership, is he a future captain? Maybe Dunn,

However I think my pick for next year would be Attwood

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 12:55
Ewels is undoubtedly a future captain, but next season may be a year sooner than ideal. Mind you Will Carling was handed the England captaincy at 22 and Charlie will be 22 on 29th June.
If you're looking at hookers, Jack Walker was England U20s captain so given a couple of seasons on the pitch, he could look good for the job.
If you need an 'old head' then Atters is prime candidate, but if he was a born leader, why wasn't he Captain this season? Same argument goes for Flouw and Garvey.
On balance I'd go for Ewels now especially as his chances of becoming an England regular before 2019 are slim.

 
bathsupporter
bathsupporter (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 13:34
Khan.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 13:41
Attwood or Garvey - the men named by Todd as the ones we missed most when injured.


PG

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 13:52
I 100% agree with Attwood personally as captain. He is a 100% starter week in and week out provided he is fit. Ewels is not yet there and he needs a few more years to further ply his trade I think.

Garvey would also be good but with a fully fit and everyone in top form squad would he be a guaranteed starter? Maybe not always but he will potentially always be in the squad as can cover the row as well. Still an excellent candidate though imo.

Khan would be an excellent one. Wise old head and a terrific player. My only concern is his age and his inability to last 80 minutes nowadays. Towards the end of the season I noticed he would come off and strap ice bags to both his knees immediately and when you need that cool captaincy head in the final 10 minutes of a match will he definitely be on the pitch still? Certainly would be in the leadership group I'd imagine though and when on pitch is a natural leader regardless of whether he has the arm band on or not!

 
ade1865
Ade1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 14:08
Surely you want someone who is a natural leader. Just cos players have been constant starters/missed when injured does not mean that they are natural leaders, it might just mean they are bloody good at their job.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 14:12
Garvey

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 14:28
For the life of me I have no idea why practically every captain is a forward (or every blooky coach for that matter) other than they are generally loud and naturally aggressive.

9 or 10 are the best positions to captain from, IMO. If players needs a bit of revving up before or during the match, then it can be the 'pack leader', but if you want a naturally calm, calculating decision-maker, then why not pick the person who requires precisely those qualities in order to be any good at their day job. And who stands right in the middle of the two main component parts - forwards and backs?

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 14:36
Quote:
Optimist
For the life of me I have no idea why practically every captain is a forward (or every blooky coach for that matter) other than they are generally loud and naturally aggressive.
9 or 10 are the best positions to captain from, IMO. If players needs a bit of revving up before or during the match, then it can be the 'pack leader', but if you want a naturally calm, calculating decision-maker, then why not pick the person who requires precisely those qualities in order to be any good at their day job. And who stands right in the middle of the two main component parts - forwards and backs?

Backs go into punditry instead winking smiley

I actually have always thought that the best leadership positions would be 13 and 7. I always think that a lot of players have the grit to get teams going forwards but the players who stand out as natural captains are those that are willing to do the ugly in defence and 7 and 13 are the two most important defensive positions.

13 leads the defence in a lot of systems whilst the 7 does the ugly stuff to steal or slow down the opposition attack. It's a massive generalisation but if you look at a few of the players that have captained from those two positions you have people like BOD, McCaw, Jean de Villiers etc who all seem like decent leaders imo!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 14:58
Quote:
Optimist
For the life of me I have no idea why practically every captain is a forward (or every blooky coach for that matter) other than they are generally loud and naturally aggressive.

For me it comes back to thing I've banged on about previously on other threads- personality type. Typically many forwards do tend to exude the extrovert-thinker behaviours [well ok in this context the term 'thinker' is a wide concept!] of being direct, forthright and results focused - leads by example

And that also I think doffs cap to the military where the leader on the field does exactly that whereas the leader back at HQ can be the more reflective, analytical tactician and strategist

Same goes in business where the extroverted - feeler 'flair and invention' people are sidelined into marketing and introverted - thinking go into R + D or planning/logistics leaving the ETs to rule the roost as CEO

Or much more simply as OPti brilliantly puts it they are just "naturally loud and aggressive"

 
MESSAGES->author
Kim (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 15:02
I agree with some of above, Charlie Ewels will be captain within a few years, no rush though. If Flow does not go away with SA then he would be a great option. But for me Matt Garvey is a definite starter and one of the most consistently excellent players in the Premiership and has also been co captain this year, don't understand how he has dodged being an England player for so long!

Do we even know if Guy Mercer will even be at Bath net year?

 
SaintED
SaintED (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 15:37
There's going to be an interesting conversation at Tigs when Ford ask MoC who is going to co-captain with him.

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 16:04
Get the players and management to vote on those who put themselves forward - I would have no idea who is the best leader in training, in the dressing room and on the pitch. Louw has been there or thereabouts for a few years he can't be far away I would guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2017 16:04 by BathMatt53.

 
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woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 16:17
I say this every time. Although we can pontificate about many things, deciding who would be the best captain without knowing these guys is a bit of a waste of time.

 
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OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 16:36
Don't care as long as the co-captain rubbish is stopped.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 16:52
Gaz, if the loudest and most aggressive is the best choice then my Mrs has to be in with a good shout?

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 17:38
For me it has to be Attwood.
Could always be the first name on the team sheet.
(But hasn't he only got 1 year left on his contract?)

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 18:17
Quote:
BathMatt53
Gaz, if the loudest and most aggressive is the best choice then my Mrs has to be in with a good shout?

These things are gender neutral my friend though I know what you mean - many years ago I watched Bath Ladies v Pontypool Women

It was the welsh that clearly were in that frame though the athletic, graceful team from Bath won by a country mile

Steve Hall (brother of Jon), I recall was their coach - what a tough job that must have been! (Sm14)

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 18:22
Quote:
I always think that a lot of players have the grit to get teams going forwards but the players who stand out as natural captains are those that are willing to do the ugly in defence and 7 and 13 are the two most important defensive positions.
13 leads the defence in a lot of systems whilst the 7 does the ugly stuff to steal or slow down the opposition attack.

Still don't get it. Players that 'lead by example' or do the 'ugly' don't need to be nominated as captain, because if they are the type that 'leads by example', then they are going to do that whether they have an armband on or not, and the effect of that example on the rest of the team shouldn't be increased or reduced by whether they are captain. Look at Sam Warburton - he led by example as captain. And now he leads by example as a player. So what was the net benefit of him being captain?

I want my captain to dictate decisions, tactics and tempo, not necessarily be in charge of motivation and physicality. I want my captain to take the right decisions as to whether we kick for goal, kick to the corner, tap and go. When play stops for a set piece, I want the captain to give the broad signal of whether we are going to stick or twist. Whether we want to slow the tempo or raise it.

The team's natural leaders and extroverts and most experienced players can motivate everyone by what they do, and if they want to scream and holler that's fine. I want the captain to have a nice calm relationship with the ref, keep a cool head and know exactly what the score is, how long there is on the clock and what is possible and what is required to win or close out the game within the remaining time. Sometimes that needs some very finely-tuned assessments. I'm always amazed for example, when a team is more than one score behind with a few minutes on the clock, and they go to the corner, or repeatedly pick and drive. Those are great ways to score when time is not a factor, but not when you need the points fast or not at all. Why go to the corner and then pick and drive into the corner when 7 points are required, but if you do score it's almost bound to be close to the touchline? These are always decisions made by forwards.


I want my captain to be so tactically astute and confident in his reading of the game that he wouldn't dream of looking up to the coach's chair to get an indication of what decision to make.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 18:31
A lovechild of Willie John McBride and Richie McCaw would be my pick.

Is it a coincidence that many of the finest rugby captains have been locks or 8s (Paul O’Connell, Martin Johnson, John Eales, Francois Pienaar etc.)? Is there something about size and strategic position on the pitch that helps this?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 18:50
Pienaar was a blind side flanker, but yes most of the finest captains have been in the forwards. Securing clean, quick possession is vital for the way a side plays and can provide the fleeter footed backs with the ammunition to work their wiles and score tries.

As said by OB, as long as the co=captain on the field nonsense is scrapped, I will be happy.

Of our candidates, the best forwards to lead would be Atters and Garvey. Personally, and going against my normal instincts in a player captain's position, I would make Kahn skipper and if subbed or injured, Atters would be vice captain.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 21:11
If TB sticks to the theme of a club captain with BBW running through their veins than I would look no further than a fit Nathan Catt.

As in NZ the club captain is one thing who oversees the culture and attitude of the club but their are a number of captains on the field and that is not necessarily the club captain.

 
wilshd
wilshd (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 22:44
Nathan Catt for me too. Or Garvey

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 22:55
Isn't Nathan Catt the club joker? Has he ever captained before?

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
16 May, 2017 23:48
He really rates Catt and Dunn based on the interview. Since Flouw hasn't been a regular captain despite his credentials I would be inclined to go for atters or Garvey as well. Having said that, banners at 12 and captain sounds interesting... I would like an 80 minute man, but England haven't done too badly with Hartley coming off pre-60 so maybe the front row isn't a bad shout... I would scrap guy mercer, though, no offence to him but he's no Stuart hooper

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 09:40
Owen Farrell would be a great choice.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 09:42
Don't think Catt has been captain before but pretty sure he has some coaching experience with Cleve RFC, who are nat 3, so you'd assume he has good tactical knowledge.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 09:42
Quote:
benjbath
He really rates Catt and Dunn based on the interview. Since Flouw hasn't been a regular captain despite his credentials I would be inclined to go for atters or Garvey as well. Having said that, banners at 12 and captain sounds interesting... I would like an 80 minute man, but England haven't done too badly with Hartley coming off pre-60 so maybe the front row isn't a bad shout... I would scrap guy mercer, though, no offence to him but he's no Stuart hooper

According to a lot of people on here, Stuart Hooper was no Stuart Hooper, even though successive coaches made him the captain. Let's take Guy Mercer, I concede that rarely getting on the team sheet is not ideal, but I'm assuming that there is a reason for it.

Of course an alternative approach would be to just do it on size/weight...

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 10:47
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
I always think that a lot of players have the grit to get teams going forwards but the players who stand out as natural captains are those that are willing to do the ugly in defence and 7 and 13 are the two most important defensive positions.
13 leads the defence in a lot of systems whilst the 7 does the ugly stuff to steal or slow down the opposition attack.

Still don't get it. Players that 'lead by example' or do the 'ugly' don't need to be nominated as captain, because if they are the type that 'leads by example', then they are going to do that whether they have an armband on or not, and the effect of that example on the rest of the team shouldn't be increased or reduced by whether they are captain. Look at Sam Warburton - he led by example as captain. And now he leads by example as a player. So what was the net benefit of him being captain?

I want my captain to dictate decisions, tactics and tempo, not necessarily be in charge of motivation and physicality. I want my captain to take the right decisions as to whether we kick for goal, kick to the corner, tap and go. When play stops for a set piece, I want the captain to give the broad signal of whether we are going to stick or twist. Whether we want to slow the tempo or raise it.

The team's natural leaders and extroverts and most experienced players can motivate everyone by what they do, and if they want to scream and holler that's fine. I want the captain to have a nice calm relationship with the ref, keep a cool head and know exactly what the score is, how long there is on the clock and what is possible and what is required to win or close out the game within the remaining time. Sometimes that needs some very finely-tuned assessments. I'm always amazed for example, when a team is more than one score behind with a few minutes on the clock, and they go to the corner, or repeatedly pick and drive. Those are great ways to score when time is not a factor, but not when you need the points fast or not at all. Why go to the corner and then pick and drive into the corner when 7 points are required, but if you do score it's almost bound to be close to the touchline? These are always decisions made by forwards.


I want my captain to be so tactically astute and confident in his reading of the game that he wouldn't dream of looking up to the coach's chair to get an indication of what decision to make.

+1

Captains have to be communicators, tacticians and decision makers. Doesn't really matter what position they play.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 10:55
Sure of their place at club level would be the first thing for me. We have got that wrong in the past.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 11:05
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
I always think that a lot of players have the grit to get teams going forwards but the players who stand out as natural captains are those that are willing to do the ugly in defence and 7 and 13 are the two most important defensive positions.
13 leads the defence in a lot of systems whilst the 7 does the ugly stuff to steal or slow down the opposition attack.

Still don't get it. Players that 'lead by example' or do the 'ugly' don't need to be nominated as captain, because if they are the type that 'leads by example', then they are going to do that whether they have an armband on or not, and the effect of that example on the rest of the team shouldn't be increased or reduced by whether they are captain. Look at Sam Warburton - he led by example as captain. And now he leads by example as a player. So what was the net benefit of him being captain?

I want my captain to dictate decisions, tactics and tempo, not necessarily be in charge of motivation and physicality. I want my captain to take the right decisions as to whether we kick for goal, kick to the corner, tap and go. When play stops for a set piece, I want the captain to give the broad signal of whether we are going to stick or twist. Whether we want to slow the tempo or raise it.

The team's natural leaders and extroverts and most experienced players can motivate everyone by what they do, and if they want to scream and holler that's fine. I want the captain to have a nice calm relationship with the ref, keep a cool head and know exactly what the score is, how long there is on the clock and what is possible and what is required to win or close out the game within the remaining time. Sometimes that needs some very finely-tuned assessments.

I want my captain to be so tactically astute and confident in his reading of the game that he wouldn't dream of looking up to the coach's chair to get an indication of what decision to make.

I think you are looking at this from a different viewpoint to me here. I agree with all of the things you have said about being tactically astute and confident in his reading of the game etc.

My point was that a 7/13 are the defensively tactical players and you win games more often than not on defence more so than attack (unless you're Wasps and play to outscore). You then have your 9/10 as the offensively tactical players who's council you take when making offensive decisions.

Look at Sarries, their team is built on strong defence but it doesn't mean that they aren't then offensively astute. Their captain is Barrett who is 12 for them and their defensive leader but I also wouldn't say that Sarries ever make tactically poor offensive decisions because of it.

The temperament of the individual is certainly paramount I don't disagree with that.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 11:07
In regards to "Isn't Nathan Catt the club joker? Has he ever captained before?" - Does it matter whether he has captained before??? He has been at Bath all his life, he has grown up when the culture was good and not so good. He is a quality operator who is highly under rated in my opinion.

Dan Carter had never captained a side before, until Richie McCaw got injured prior to the Canada fixture in the world cup - The coaches placed their faith in their protocols and culture that it did not matter whether someone has experience as a Captain - it is an "Aura" that makes a good captain - Quote from the great Sean Fitzpatrick not experience. At this level there are leaders all over the field.

With the likes of FL, TF, DD. MG, DA, KF etc it does not matter who has the armband. What we do need is a captain who works, lives and breathes BBW and for me Nathan Catt fits the bill perfectly.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 11:48
At All Blacks level no doubt there are leaders all over the field.
At BB&W level there clearly are not, otherwise we wouldn't have been so tactically inept over the season. Catty, Flouw, Garvey and Attwood may all be rock solid club men, but that does not necessarily give them the qualifications to be a good captain.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 12:51
I would suggest Jayeatman you have hit the nail on the head as to why Mercer was named as Club Captain and why TB is so keen to establish a culture similar to the All Blacks and his beloved Canterbury.

Dan Carter talks in his autobiography about a complete shift in mentality at club and provisional level following the 2011 World Cup success. He states when he returned from injury he could not believe the difference in mentality, attitude and intensity from the previous year and credits this for the All Blacks subsequent and current success.

Who was in charge of the Crusaders during this change?? None other than Todd Blackadder - a man Carter describes as an absolute Legend and rates him up with the current All Blacks coaching team.

I still believe Nathan Catt is an outstanding candidate. For too long we have adopted the attitude that a captain at club level must demand his place in the team or even squad - the Southern Hemisphere have a completely different outlook. Club Captain is completely different to playing captain. At present I would argue Nathan Catt does demand a starting spot or at least in the 1st Team Squad.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 13:30
Quote:
jayeatman
At All Blacks level no doubt there are leaders all over the field.
At BB&W level there clearly are not, otherwise we wouldn't have been so tactically inept over the season. Catty, Flouw, Garvey and Attwood may all be rock solid club men, but that does not necessarily give them the qualifications to be a good captain.

True, but I'd argue our season started going off track when Garvey and Attwood both got injured (and was broken when Khan and Flouw got banned for two games).

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 13:31
I would go for Homer for these reasons:

He is good at rugby
he has got a blue black and white shirt
he's got ginger hair
he seems to stand at the back a lot so he has a good view of what's going on

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 13:45
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
jayeatman
At All Blacks level no doubt there are leaders all over the field.
At BB&W level there clearly are not, otherwise we wouldn't have been so tactically inept over the season. Catty, Flouw, Garvey and Attwood may all be rock solid club men, but that does not necessarily give them the qualifications to be a good captain.

True, but I'd argue our season started going off track when Garvey and Attwood both got injured (and was broken when Khan and Flouw got banned for two games).

I think that this was down to weak squad depth than loss of leaders - particularly for Kahn. All of those that you mentioned are top players. I haven't seen any evidence that Dave Attwood, fabulous player that he is, is a leader on the field (I certainly never see him shouting at people like O'Connell / Johnson did). He is basically too nice, Flouw probably the same?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 13:52
Oh for a 'nasty' man like Roger Spurrell, brave leader to the point of suicidal, or a 'Mr Grumpy' Jon Hall.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 14:17
Quote:
woodpecker
I would go for Homer for these reasons:
He is good at rugby
he has got a blue black and white shirt
he's got ginger hair
he seems to stand at the back a lot so he has a good view of what's going on

+1 (Sm100)

 
MESSAGES->author
NattyCap (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 14:26
I have been a big supporter of Attwood as captain in previous seasons but I wouldn't want him as captain these days, he seems to have lost some of his fire. When Ford was nervous it rippled through the team and affected the whole team in the big games. So the most important attribute for a captain for me has to be a calm determination and the ability to kick the team up the @#$%& when needed. And lets face it we have needed that several times this season. When I think of that as what is important then I come up blank about who should be captain, I don't think there is a stand out ideal choice. I think Ewels will make a great captain but just not yet. If I had to choose then Garvey or Banahan, neither are spot on so maybe have them as co-captains, as we love the concept so much (Sm159)

 
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woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 16:24
On second thoughts, Roko

He's good at rugby
He's got a blue black and white shirt
He's been in the army so he should be good at shouting at people
He can drive a tank (which nobody else in the squad can, maybe nobody in the premiership?)
He wont be away with England unless we play Fiji



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/05/2017 17:06 by woodpecker.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 16:29
"neither are spot on so maybe have them as co-captains, as we love the concept so much"

One thing I don't mind is nominating a captain on a match-by-match basis from a core of leaders. But make it one of them, not 3!

A leader will tend to emerge from that, anyway, and if TB likes to be innovative - why not lay to rest the need to nominate someone at the beginning of the season, when there's no guarantee they will be fit, first choice or in form for every game.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 18:13
Interesting as all the above is, as observers we have no insight into how the squad dynamics work and who the coaching staff 'trust' implicitly prior to, during a match and afterwards esp if there has been a loss when wise words are needed.

Personally, I would nominate Flo. I suspect his SA duty days are over, he has been at the club for many a year now, knows the Premiership sides, grounds and politics. Let him have a go. Failing him then maybe Atwood although not quite sure why I hesitate, and much as a admire Khan, he is more useful as strutting his fab stuff as 9 and no doubt muttering advice to whoever when required.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
17 May, 2017 18:59
I think position is important. As an extreme example, I think it's much harder to lead from 15, because you're much more remote from your players. Your much more remote from the ref, making communicating with him harder, you know how frustrating it is when their Captain is in his ear all game long and yours isn't. It's much harder to lead by example and dictate the pace of the game. 6-9 are ideally placed to throttle the game and communicate with those that are, 15 can't do that.

Basically anyone backwards of 9 is in a worse position.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
18 May, 2017 02:41
Quote:
Ali1969
...it is an "Aura" that makes a good captain - Quote from the great Sean Fitzpatrick not experience.

I think this is a crucial point. We know aura when we see it. POC, Johnno, Francois Pienaar, John Eales, Sean Fitzpatrick all had it (consciously or unconsciously - I tend towards the latter) and that made their group of players coalesce into a unit with them as the identity and the spearhead. No one spoke (or speaks) of England 2003 as being Jonny's team, or Will's team or Lawrence's team. They were Johnno's team. We do not have anyone in the squad with this "aura" and until we do, I do not think we will be a champion team. Don't get me wrong, we will be good but until we have that kind of an identity I don't think we'll be great.

I am not sure you can buy this, either. I think it has to come organically from within and it takes time. One of Ewels, Mercer (Z) or Auterac would be my hunch. But if we think we *can* buy it, I would choose Dean Mumm.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2017 02:49 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
18 May, 2017 03:15
And before anyone asks, I think its Owen Farrell at Saracens. I know he is not usually captain but he exemplifies the values and sets and maintains the standards. Which is why I think he should also captain England.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2017 03:19 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Captain next Season
18 May, 2017 07:21
I would add walker to that young group JtF based on his history. Not convinced that auterac fits there, he's as quiet as a mouse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2017 07:22 by BathMatt53.


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