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ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

New Signings and updates merged
07 July, 2017 10:50
In the excitement of the Lions Tour I have rather forgotten about Bath, but with the fixtures and Captain announcement coming it has reminded me that we have been very quiet on the transfer front.

Which got me wondering why. In decreasingly likely order I have come up with:
1) We've signed some but have learned from our past mistakes and aren't announcing anything until they are here.
2) We don't need anyone else, or at least anyone that is available. With hopefully a number of injuries returning to play our squad will be stronger anyway and we may be best not making too many changes. Going for continuity and trust in the young guys.
3) We can't sign anyone because we are unattractive. Not physically of course, we have all seen the Kane Train in those gym pics.
4) There was more to this salary cap stuff than anyone let on which is why we have been much quieter on the signings front in the last couple of years.

Thoughts? Speculation? Wild accusations?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/07/2017 07:00 by CoochieCoo.

 
stuckinlondon
stuckinlondon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 11:30
I would worry if we think we have enough!
I suspect we may have some coming after the Super rugby season finishes but also that the Salary Cap is being more enforced.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 11:42
1) We've signed some but have learned from our past mistakes and aren't announcing anything until they are here.

This and only this.


2) We don't need anyone else, or at least anyone that is available. With hopefully a number of injuries returning to play our squad will be stronger anyway and we may be best not making too many changes. Going for continuity and trust in the young guys.

Todd has already said that we do and we will.

3) We can't sign anyone because we are unattractive. Not physically of course, we have all seen the Kane Train in those gym pics.

Don't believe that for one second.

4) There was more to this salary cap stuff than anyone let on which is why we have been much quieter on the signings front in the last couple of years.

Not sure where that came from, the cap has give up a couple of million £ in the last few seasons and our salaries are probably even lower than they were then with Wilson, Burgess, Eastmond, Webber, Paul James no longer here even allowing for some big pay rises (I guess Joseph and Watson?) and some replacements.

At least we get another transfer thread to contribute to! (Sm23)

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 11:55
Looks like our new tighthead is another Welshman, judging from Garvey's interview vid

 
bathsupporter
bathsupporter (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 12:46
Jaco Kriel \frans Malherbe Fekitoa all linked in the last weeks..... At least one more big name before season reconvenes and 5 more in total......

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 12:53
Saw Craig Mitchell in the snippets of pre-season within the Garvey interview. Maybe a trial having left the Dragons?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 13:06
It is true that we have done well to acquire Underhill but at the same time we have lost Denton. We have also swapped fly-halves. The only other newcomers are Evans & Phillips, not likely starters. Furthermore we have lost Freuan. At the same time Saracens & Wasps have signed several top players & are operating under the same salary cap as us. Although we have returners from injury, less Ellis, we are short of centres, front rows, a winger(?) & a second row(?) Surely if players were coming to us they would have signed up by now? I don't see why the fact that they are playing Super Rugby prevents announcements being made but at the same time what do I know? It is rather frustrating with pre-season well under way.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 13:17
Quote:
BathLad
Saw Craig Mitchell in the snippets of pre-season within the Garvey interview. Maybe a trial having left the Dragons?

Not an inspiring signing



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 13:36
What is our squad size currently 42 + academy, that's up quite a bit on a season or two ago. The cap has gone up, but with it so will have wages. It doesn't seem impossible that we've not actually got that much room.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 13:38
Quote:
DanWiley
What is our squad size currently 42 + academy, that's up quite a bit on a season or two ago. The cap has gone up, but with it so will have wages. It doesn't seem impossible that we've not actually got that much room.

Ford must have been on quite a bit and we haven't brought in anyone near his quality/salary.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 13:41
I'd agree, but I thought that there were reports around the time the switch that in order to talk Freddie into it the difference in Ford's and his salary really wasn't so much?

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 14:48
There's a lot of speculation this side of the bridge that Leigh Halfpenny will join us.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 14:48
We have let loads of (very) high earners go in the last couple of years we should have plenty of room. Even very recently Ford, Fruean and Denton with Wilson going mid-season. I'm sure that Grant, Wilson, Allinson, Knight etc. aren't breaking the bank even acknowledging that Taulupe must be on top whack (and worth every penny IMHO).

In relation to Freddie and Ford salaries don't forget that Priestland was rumoured to be on an absolute packet...

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 15:15
Quote:
DanWiley
What is our squad size currently 42 + academy, that's up quite a bit on a season or two ago. The cap has gone up, but with it so will have wages. It doesn't seem impossible that we've not actually got that much room.

I have to disagree with this. Over the past 2 years weíve been working in a profit with our recruitment. I understand that the signing of players to new contracts can also cause more cap to be used up. However, the only renewal weíve made to a player whose circumstances have significantly changed is Watson who was 19 and looking to break into the first team when we signed him in comparison to last summer where he had made a reputation to one of the best counter attackers and finishers in the NH.

In terms of recruitment;
Ford (signed a second contact with us as an international) > Burns
Denton (international) > Underhill (aspiring international, although now capped)
Bowden < Tapuai
Day = Stooke
Agulla (international) > Brew (wasnít even playing pro12)
Houston < Faletau
Webber (international when signed) > Walker
Hooper = Charteris
Mafi = Grant
? Ė Kahn*
Devoto -?
Sisi -?
Eastmond (last contract signed when an international) -?
Davey Wilson (international tightheads, normally as expensive as international 10s)-?
* Kahn hasnít been a natural replacement within the salary cap although Niko Matawalu and Stringer in previous years would have controlled salaries around the level of Kahnís.
(arrows showing my expected level of cost within the cap)


This demonstrates through pure recruitment that over the past few years we have been making a profit from the quantity of quality we have allowed to leave the club, some probably demanding wages superior to their ability (Eastmond one we know). Over the past year we have made a number of significant renewals although not on the level of the number of players (Denton, Agulla, Wilson, Eastmond) who have left without a similar costing replacement. Unless were being run pretty poorly and paying someone like Charteris or Tapuai far more than they, in my opinion, are worth.

Note. This is excluding the salary cap increasing from £5.1 million in the 2015/16 season to £7 million for the forthcoming season.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 15:55
You missed off Paul James BL, who also cannot have been cheap. (Carl Fearns? Burgess)

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 16:06
Quote:
BathMatt53
You missed off Paul James BL, who also cannot have been cheap. (Carl Fearns? Burgess)

Absolutely however that was the year prior (2015-16)

Having looked at it though the trend actually really started here. We signed Matawalu, Rhys, Denton, Jeff, Jonathan Evans but lost all those previously stated as well as Strings and Henson.

 
ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 16:29
Quote:
BathLad
Quote:
BathMatt53
You missed off Paul James BL, who also cannot have been cheap. (Carl Fearns? Burgess)

Absolutely however that was the year prior (2015-16)

Having looked at it though the trend actually really started here. We signed Matawalu, Rhys, Denton, Jeff, Jonathan Evans but lost all those previously stated as well as Strings and Henson.

Which is about is about the time of the salary cap investigation (Nov 2015 ish), hence my conspiracy theory. While I think this is the least likely reason for our relative lack of big name signings, it is easy to point to a rough correlation.

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
07 July, 2017 16:45
Quote:
ken_jnr
Quote:
BathLad
Quote:
BathMatt53
You missed off Paul James BL, who also cannot have been cheap. (Carl Fearns? Burgess)

Absolutely however that was the year prior (2015-16)

Having looked at it though the trend actually really started here. We signed Matawalu, Rhys, Denton, Jeff, Jonathan Evans but lost all those previously stated as well as Strings and Henson.

Which is about is about the time of the salary cap investigation (Nov 2015 ish), hence my conspiracy theory. While I think this is the least likely reason for our relative lack of big name signings, it is easy to point to a rough correlation.

Alternatively BC lost faith in Fords recruitment when the Burgess situation went sour.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 06:59
Could an aging All Black be on the way to us as it couldn't be announced until after the series??? Just clutching st straws.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 07:04
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Could an aging All Black be on the way to us as it couldn't be announced until after the series??? Just clutching st straws.
I'd take SBW (though he may ned to make ammends with our Fcool smiley, given the kiwi press reaction to him, his AB career may well be over. We also know that he likes money over anything else, and as a Marquee, we could do that.
Otherwise, Owen Franks is the obvious player to go for, but that rumour has been done and dusted for over a year now; and put to bed by his contract situation through the RWC19



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 07:20
I'm not sure there are any ABs who aren't contacted until after the 2019 wc

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 09:08
Salary cap?? Do we really think any team follows this! In the NFL they have a saying " the cap is crap" and I bet it the same here.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 11:05
I think you're a year or two out of date with that observation BathP. The cap is now large enough for pretty much everyone. For the likes of Bruce to start going over the cap would be ridiculous. I still don't 100% trust Sarries because their ownership seems, to me, to be a bit too convoluted. But even with them I seriously doubt it's anything other than a bit of legacy. Bruce and Sarries got as close as possible to being exposed a couple of years ago. I really doubt they would be that stupid now that the cap gives them plenty to work with and several AV clubs can't even afford to spend up to it. They've got what they want - which is the ability to spend more than others.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 11:36
Agree with Opti - this isn't some dodgy back street market, the PL auditors can go through all money in and out with a fine-toothed comb these days.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 11:39
They could smuggle in a couple of Kiwis wearing red shirts on the returning Lions plane!

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 12:36
I suspect given the lack of announcements and the obvious gaps in our squad that there is a strong possibility that one or two of the aforementioned signings are either coming from AB's or their fringes or alternatively Lions.. Fingers crossed.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 19:41
Ruck saying that Jonny May is interesting us and Tigers?! Bit of an odd one.

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 20:30
I do think max Clark could really begin to push on again this season. He's not small and he runs lovely lines, given trust and backing he has a lot of potential...

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
09 July, 2017 20:33
Yes max clark doesn't let anyone down, and pretty fast for a big lump. Not sure whether he is as comfortable at 12 as 13 but think he will get quite a bit of game time for sure.

 
Daniel Riddle
Riddler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 04:38
Based entirely on media reports the squad could be significantly stronger next season albeit I doubt all the below will come to pass. My focus would be on bolstering the front row with two not just one new tight heads. I would also add another top nine as unfortunately I don't think Cook or Allinson offer league winning competition to Kahn.
After that a bulldozing 12 and then, and only then, another 6 and 15

3-Mitchell and Malherbe
6-Phillips
6- Kriel
9 - Care
12 - Fekitoa
15 - Halfpenny

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 07:08
If we end up with even one of those I will be surprised Riddler...

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 07:14
Is there any substance to the Care rumour or is it another case of wishful thinking?

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 07:51
Quote:
Ali1969
Is there any substance to the Care rumour or is it another case of wishful thinking?

I doubt it, he features heavily on Quins promo pictures for the coming season, also why would he leave a club where he is first choice by some margin to battle it out with Kahn?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 10:45
It should all be more transparent. Have all teams allowed a certain size of first team squad (45 or more if needed) and then have 4 bands of salary. A,B,C,D with A being the highest paid. Have 5 players on A, 20 on B, 10 on C, and 10 on D. Also have something in place for injuries. Then put it all out in the open.

 
MESSAGES->author
Coalminer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 11:14
I think Tod Blackadder has been pretty transparent in saying he is looking to sign 6 or 7 extra players. The reason for no news is likely to be that they still have some matches to play for their current clubs.

 
Daniel Riddle
Riddler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 11:17
Not solely wishful, there have been some articles over the 6 months or so but agree, one maybe two max of these (starting with a huge grizzly tight head! please!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 11:18 by Riddler.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 11:24
So CB2 imagine you are Sarries and pull Itoje and Kruis through the system, they go from band D to band A when they sign their next contract, do you tell Farrell that he has to go down to Band B? Or Vunipola (either of). How about Newcastle - lucky them when they get salary increases so that they can have enough guys in the top band?

Seems one of the most oddball ideas I have heard in a while!

(In terms of publishing salaries isn't this what they do in some US sports?)

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 11:37
I'm not against publishing salaries. The obvious direct impact of banding will be to increase player movement.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 11:57
Quote:
cb2
It should all be more transparent. Have all teams allowed a certain size of first team squad (45 or more if needed) and then have 4 bands of salary. A,B,C,D with A being the highest paid. Have 5 players on A, 20 on B, 10 on C, and 10 on D. Also have something in place for injuries. Then put it all out in the open.

Why?

Apart from satiating supporters' curiosity

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 12:13
BathMatt53 - You hit the nail on the head. This is the whole idea of the plan - to make it an even field for all and to make it more transparent. If you are really successful, like Sarries, then you cannot keep within the salary cap unless you sell players or do not buy new expensive ones like Williams. You have to balance the budget. Why not have it out in the open to stop all the inuendo?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 12:23
Ah, the John McDonnell / Jeremy Corbyn approach to rugby financing!

The fact is that some clubs have the ability through support and marketing and events (see Wasps, Exeter in particular) to pay higher wages to more players. Wasps took a punt to achieve this and Exeter has also built this up through time. The cap stops it getting silly but I don't see (although I'm no accountant) how restricting the overall salaries of the more wealthy clubs or forcing the less wealthy clubs to spend more would work?

Quins played in front of at least 3 times more fans this year.

Harlequins 255,733
Leicester Tigers 251,894
Wasps 234,360
Saracens 204,639
Bath Rugby 200,911
Northampton Saints 170,109
Gloucester Rugby 155,220
Bristol Rugby 147,758
Exeter Chiefs 137,787
Worcester Warriors 97,079
Newcastle Falcons 77,986
Sale Sharks 68,220

[rd.premiershiprugby.com]

As long as they now police the current system I don't see that there is a problem with it.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 12:51
1 - Restricting the salaries of the more wealthy clubs is the idea of a salary cap.

2 - A club would not be forced to spend the full cap, If they wanted to have more D players, then they could.

If you believe in a cap which does not increase a great deal every year, then the consequence must be that the more successful clubs cannot continue to purchase top players without trading other players. It is basic maths. If it is transparent, then rugby would be the better for it and not be dragged through the mud.

It is currently 6.5 million plus extras

The downside of this is that in pro squads at the moment there will be less successful players who have stopped education at a young age and taken up rugby as a career and they are not being paid a great amount of money. At least in the amateur days the players normally had other careers to go to after they hung up their boots. Haskell writes well on this point and explains the need for a career plan b.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:07
Not sure what number of fans means here.

Restriction of # of a-level stars punishes teams for successfully developing talent.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:18
Number of fans was just my basic notion of affordability Hasta. I know that TV money and merchandise and marketing and (in the case of Exeter and Wasps) hiring out the facilities makes them lots of ££ too.

It was my misinterpretation of CBs earlier post when he said 'Have 5 players on A, 20 on B, 10 on C, and 10 on D' - I had read this as every team must have this (which is why I thought it was weird).

We of course already have A and B tiers with the squad and £ limited academy.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:19
Quote:
JimDaffwhy would Care leave a club where he is first choice by some margin to battle it out with Kahn?[/quote

I don't think for a minute that Care is coming here, but I think the logic of it would work really well for both of those players.

Kahn is coming up 35. Ideally, this year he should be the second choice scrum-half who is actually as good, if not better than the first choice. With Care nailed on to be away for AIs and 6Ns, Kahn would get plenty of rugby and both would end up with a sensible workload. What's more Care could come here as first choice whilst knowing full well that there's a hell of a lot that he could learn from his 'understudy'. Who is he being pushed by at Quins?

Care, Kahn, Homer would be a perfect roster of 9s for us, and just about ideal for them IMO.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:22
Revenue is a fairly critical multiplier of # of fans too (plus Quins etc. get to count all the fans at the LDH - which is slightly ridiculous).

I've nothing against the transparency of player salaries and contracts lengths. I'm unconvinced by 'bands' of player wages.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:30
Wouldn't publishing player salaries breach their right to privacy?



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 13:34
Many jobs salaries are published. I strongly suspect it would be the clubs more than the players who would be more against salary publishing - they can use ignorance to restrict salary.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 14:37
Private companies use the argument that it makes it easier for others to poach their employees - that's the argument the BBC is using I think?

It is normal for the public sector obviously.

[www.nasuwt.org.uk]

[www.army.mod.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 15:00
Right. It benefits employees as they can get true market worth.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 15:09
We are going O/T a bit here...

Come on Todd - hurry up with that Monday good news announcement! smileys with beer

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
10 July, 2017 15:31
I think the cap does its job as it is (or perhaps was), why change?

AP clubs aren't going bust, or even having the troubles some French ones are. The bottom of the table (or at least 11 place) is capable of beat the top and quite regularly does. I actually don't feel we really lose players to other countries (a couple to France but I'm not that fussed). I feel we can pull in an appropriate number of superstars. But not so many superstars that English rugby suffers. The English national teams seem healthy.

What problem are you trying to solve?

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 11:31
Doesn't sound like we're in the running for fekitoa...

[www.nzherald.co.nz]

Tamanivalu then please!

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 14:07
Quote:
cb2
It should all be more transparent. Have all teams allowed a certain size of first team squad (45 or more if needed) and then have 4 bands of salary. A,B,C,D with A being the highest paid. Have 5 players on A, 20 on B, 10 on C, and 10 on D. Also have something in place for injuries. Then put it all out in the open.


I agree about publishing salaries and i don't see why they don't but i don't agree with putting players in Bands at all, it will punish teams like saracens where we have the most academy players in our senior squad of any team in the prem.
I don't want to have to choose between Itoje and Billy or Faz for one band, what we should be encouraging and i think we are with academy credits is for teams to keep producing their own players which is what we are doing at sarries and then, finding ways to those teams to keep their players. I think the academy credit should be increased to encourage teams to invest in their academy and then bringing players to supplement the team not the other way around, I am proud our best players are all English and mostly all came through the sarries academy, the only notable two being the vunipola boys who all joined as very young players.

Have a look at this article, it shows all the teams in the prem and where they are in relation to producing academy players into the senior squad, very interesting read


[alexshawsports.wordpress.com]

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 14:26
Wow, someone had a lot of time on their hands...

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 17:00
Quote:
BathMatt53
Wow, someone had a lot of time on their hands...
To be fair - it's kinda his job (is it Planet Rugby he writes for?)

Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
https://alexshawsports.wordpress.com/2017/07/10/premiership-academy-analysis/
Aww; was gonna plagiarise that... I mean.. erm... use that research as a jumping off point for my own research on the subject (phew) as an off-season article to keep the site open.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 18:12
Did Ben Teo sign any extension with Worcester??? He may be the perfect fit..Just a thought as we all look South

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 18:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
Wow, someone had a lot of time on their hands...

He is a journalist who writes for planet rugby, rugby world, and wrote for world rugby during the U20's. He is an expert on youth rugby so yeah i guess it is his job to write that and his findings are very interesting and his observations that bath has now become a buy first club rather than promote from within is interesting

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 18:43
Quote:
Ali1969
Did Ben Teo sign any extension with Worcester??? He may be the perfect fit..Just a thought as we all look South

Said he was staying put

[m.bbc.co.uk]

Big fan and he is the sort of player we could use in the centres, but he'd be away with England for large portions of the season.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 18:59
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
BathMatt53
Wow, someone had a lot of time on their hands...

He is a journalist who writes for planet rugby, rugby world, and wrote for world rugby during the U20's. He is an expert on youth rugby so yeah i guess it is his job to write that and his findings are very interesting and his observations that bath has now become a buy first club rather than promote from within is interesting

Fair enough, I was hoping someone had paid him for it.

The issue of course is that it is 5 years (at least) out of date in that it is presenting the results of work from a long time ago. I think that the Bath academy did suffer for a bit and now they are putting quite a lot of effort back into it through the Beechen and Millfield tie-ins in a similar (although not as impressive) that Worcester have an absolute stack of players in the national age grade teams and Sarries have the Sarries school. There is more to the bath academy than Zach Mercer (Bayliss, for example).

So, interesting as a mathematical exercise but not sure it proves the conclusion that Bath has become a buying club (and cares less about the youth).

I'm sure that lot on here on here have more of an in-depth knowledge than me about the current academy set-up and goals.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 19:00
I was aware of his comments but in this era of players going back on what appears legally binding contracts, what price is a players comments.

Do agree BathBurger about him being away with England for large chunks of the season but he and Max Clarke could "Job Share". Will be interesting to see who TB & TM have in mind, whoever it is I have absolute trust in their judgement and I know BC will bsck them financially.

Really excited about the new season.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 19:20
I respect Ben Teo. I think he plays a tremendous role as an impact sub for Eng and I think he played phenomenally during the Lions tour.

He brings exactly the right sort of qualities we're looking for in a centre - fast running ball carrier with decent hands and an offloading ability. But, do I think he is the right person for Bath? Categorically, N-O!

I want to put it out there and say I had a lot more respect for Sam Bur (I won't say the rest of his name in fear of opening old wounds) than many other people on this board. But making an offer to Sam's old league teammate, who crossed over to union at the same time as Sam, is not taking us in the same direction we have been going in since the departure of Mike Ford.

Since Mike Ford left, there has been a noticeable decision to step away from anyone and anything involved with rugby league both throughout the club, as supporters and across this board - and that is likely for the best.

Again, I will reiterate that I believe Ben Teo is an excellent player. But the former South Sydney Rabbitoh is best left off of our team sheet IMO. He has transitioned very well, unlike SB. But I think a lot of people have forgotten Teo's relationship to SB and rugby league as whole.



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
11 July, 2017 19:45
In the context of TB's 6 or 7 additional players:

The Offy now shows Levi Douglas elevated to senior ranks.
Not taking anything away from the lad especially in that Tom Elllis' injury may have affected this decision, but of that possible 6 or 7 we now have Douglas, Obano and Phillips signed up.
Is that group in addition to or part of TB'S future contingent?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 08:22
I would like to know the wages just because it would help fan's expectations for new signings and other things. It brings in some reality. I would like us to sign a top kicker at 15 (Halfpenny), an international class centre who is not playing internationals (Slade), and 3 quality premiership winning level front row players. I imagine this is pie in the sky stuff but it would be nice to know what is possible.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 09:22
Quote:
cb2
I would like to know the wages just because it would help fan's expectations for new signings and other things. It brings in some reality. I would like us to sign a top kicker at 15 (Halfpenny), an international class centre who is not playing internationals (Slade), and 3 quality premiership winning level front row players. I imagine this is pie in the sky stuff but it would be nice to know what is possible.

Not sure why we would need to bring in a top kicker who plays 15. There are surely a lot of good fullback options - an area we may need to strengthen - who do not kick but are a lot cheaper than Halfpenny. We have Homer who can kick not to mention Burns and Priestland who are both much better kickers than our last!

I personally would also rather see us score tries given the squad we have than kick our way to victory but I personally believe Freddie Burns is good enough to help us actually do both anyways.

The areas I would strengthen - in order of priority are the following;
12
3
9
15 - although if we can manage for another year Harry Davies or Darren Atkins may develop enough to be options here.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 09:31
I think that we should sign Greg Eden from Castleford for the left wing - maybe offer a derisory £50k and then blame them for kicking off about it a la Mr Diamond. The guy is a try machine, 33 tries in 19 games this season.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 09:39
I think the Prem will be a dogfight this year and many matches will come down to small margins. Whilst Homer and Burns can kick, Halfpenny is out on his own and this might make a lot of difference throughout the season and in the playoffs. If I were making a Fantasy side, then I would want the best kicker in it. Halfpenny is that man and is still a clever reader of the game.

I would like to take this backline into a final:-


Kahn
Roko
Burns
?? Slade
JJ
Watson
?? Halfpenny

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 09:55
Don't forget Priestland as another kicking option

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 10:00
Quote:
cb2
Whilst Homer and Burns can kick, Halfpenny is out on his own and this might make a lot of difference throughout the season and in the playoffs. If I were making a Fantasy side, then I would want the best kicker in it. Halfpenny is that man and is still a clever reader of the game.

I think that your info is out of date.

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

'While he converted 84.09% of his Top14 place kicks for Toulon, he only slotted 72.22% in the Champions Cup.

Freddie Burnsí Premiership accuracy was 85.29%, Tom Homerís was 84.62% and Rhys Priestlandís was 75.86% but he scored with 89.47% of his goal attempts in the European Challenge Cup.

Would Halfpenny's place-kicking make that much of a material difference to Bath's success next season? I doubt it'.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 10:25
Matt, I don't have details of last seasons kicking at Toulon, but he was only just back from injury then I believe. So it might not be a true picture.

Recent form with the Lions is 11 from 11.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 10:58
Freddie Burns kicking is right up there with the best - I'm with the Chron.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 11:44
I hope Burns continues with these stats, as I think the squad we have now might be the one which goes into the first game, give or take a couple of roster fillers. What is our starting front row at the moment?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 11:50
Halfpenny is a good player and an excellent kicker, but is too much of a luxury for Bath to sign given the urgent requirement for other positions and his international commitments,



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 11:53
Quote:
BathMatt53
I think that we should sign Greg Eden from Castleford for the left wing - maybe offer a derisory £50k and then blame them for kicking off about it a la Mr Diamond. The guy is a try machine, 33 tries in 19 games this season.

That's no guarantee of success in union; Lesley Vainokolo scored 149 tries in 152 games for Bradford but wasn't very effective for Gloucester. Denny Solomona looks to have some potential but I really hope we've learned from our various league projects that the juice isn't often worth the squeeze...

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 11:54
Catt - Dunn - Thomas I would guess.

Backups:

Auterac / Obano - Walker / Batty / VV - Grant / Lahiff / KPN

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 12:05
Quote:
JimDaff
the juice isn't often worth the squeeze...
Touche!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 12:08
Quote:
BathMatt53
Catt - Dunn - Thomas I would guess.
Backups:

Auterac / Obano - Walker / Batty / VV - Grant / Lahiff / KPN

Grant?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 12:10
Quote:
BathSalmon
Quote:
BathMatt53
Catt - Dunn - Thomas I would guess.
Backups:

Auterac / Obano - Walker / Batty / VV - Grant / Lahiff / KPN

Grant?

Knight! Just worked out what "Grant" was code for.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 13:24
Oh do keep up BS - Shaun 'Grant' Knight (otherwise known as 'Granty' or 'Mr G'), thought that was obvious...err...(Sm105)

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 13:48
Quote:
BathMatt53
Oh do keep up BS - Shaun 'Grant' Knight (otherwise known as 'Granty' or 'Mr G'), thought that was obvious...err...(Sm105)

Suppose if you squint (a LOT) he does look like one of the Mitchells!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 14:33
Quote:
BathMatt53
Oh do keep up BS - Shaun 'Grant' Knight (otherwise known as 'Granty' or 'Mr G'), thought that was obvious...err...(Sm105)

So for those of us that only watch sport on TV how are we supposed to know it was 'Eastenders related?'

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 14:41
Dirty Den was in Enders the last time I watched it. Got pushed into a canal the poor chap.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 15:53
12th July already new Season starts first weekend of September, whilst I appreciate that players keep themselves exceptionally fit all year round and ready to play at any time, we are cutting it short in relation to naming new recruits and bedding them into the squad in time for what will be a hell of a month of fixtures!!!

I think most squads are reasonably settled but ours does look far too weak to challenge on all fronts particularly up front (Props & and Row) and in the backline given that we will lose at least JJ and AW to England and in the pack - Underhill, Ewels potentially Dunn and Catt. In addition we have seen the effect of losing KF at scrum half did for us last year, it is dangerous to have such a gulf of class between starting and back up!!

 
Daniel Riddle
Riddler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 16:06
I would be seriously underwhelmed if the current squad was it as, although the first team, all fit, would challenge for top 6 (not convinced top 4 looking at others), it wouldn't stand up over 30-40 odd matches. We absolutely need quality signings at tight head, scrum and inside centre. The rest we can maybe work around i.e. back row and a back three, but this is the minimum I think to actually compete for top 4.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 16:47
Oh boy doom and gloom already. Just get the excuses in now please. Not long before the first calling of TB to go, BC to sell threats of not renewing season tickets. Not long before we are in the Championship and we won't need a new stadium and the Fiends win. Oh Happy Days.

 
Daniel Riddle
Riddler (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 17:02
Huh? Is this post connected to the thread in its origins..? I don't think with the current squad we have the ability to have calls ups, injuries and still get top 4. That's not relegation or the club being sold unless I have missed something. Maybe you have stringent standards for the club that are significantly higher than my expectations however if so I'm not sure such drastic repercussions to missing out on the playoffs would be entirely justifiedsmiling smiley

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 18:03
It is not doom and gloom it is an observation, I have said throughout I have total faith in TB & TM however they can only work with what they have available. TB has said he has 5/6 signings to announce so far we have only seen 2 and maybe Phillips as a replacement for Ellis.

Neither is it TB & TM's fault the draw for the fixtures have left us with a season defining opening 6 weeks.

So no it is not doom and gloom but we need quality players brought in for what will be a really challenging season ahead.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 19:37
We have quality players all we need is to keep them playing?



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Gussieboy
Gussieboy (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 19:45
The self elected 'doom police' are the most annoying thing about this board - no one is allowed an opinion any more without someone coming on and doing the 'doom mongering' thing!

Personally I agree with Ali, I think we are still a few players short of a side to challenge for honours and strangely enough, that seems to be what Todd thinks, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to sign an additional 7 or 8 players.

Time doth indeed ticketh on - last season we left it very late (too late IMO), to replace our outgoing centres. Pre season is well underway and no sight nor sound of the players that Todd says we need. In a month we will start our pre season friendlies, were we not all hoping that the promised players would be in situ by then, to gel with the team?

I can't help wondering if the players that I think Todd had in mind have had a change of heart, maybe the cavalry is just over the hill - who knows, but the sooner they arrive the better. As I said before, based on last season, the players we have lost and signed, and international call ups, I think we are a few players short of serious title contenders - surely that doesn't make me a or anyone else of the same opinion a doom merchant?!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/07/2017 17:04 by Gussieboy.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 20:51
Quote:
Gussieboy
The self elected 'doom police' are the most snnoying thing about this board - no one is allowed an opinion any more without someone coming on and doing the 'doom mongering' thing!
Personally I agree with Ali, I think we are still a few players short of a side to challenge for honours and strangely enough, that seems to be what Todd thinks, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to sign an additional 7 or 8 players.

Time doth indeed ticketh on - last season we left it very late (too late IMO), to replace our outgoing centres. Pre season is well underway and no sight nor sound of the players that Todd says we need. In a month we will start our pre season friendlies, were we not all hoping that the promised players would be in situ by then, to gel with the team?

I can't help wondering if the players that I think Todd had in mind have had a change of heart, maybe the cavalry is just over the hill - who knows, but the sooner they arrive the better. As I said before, based on last season, the players we have lost and signed, and international call ups, I think we are a few players short of serious title contenders - surely that doesn't make me a or anyone else of the same opinion a doom merchant?!

+1

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
12 July, 2017 22:55
I would rather wait and get some decent bodies in rather than rushing into loads of signings just because they are available now! We also don't really want to be buying players out of contracts as I believe that money would come out of the cap. I can see us announcing signings throughout the season as and when TB's targets become free agents.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 03:18
Quote:
CoochieCoo
We have quality players all we need is to keep them playing?

If only it were so simple!

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 06:31
Is the front row we have going to be able to cut it come the money end of the season? Give me a couple of Argentinian props and a jackpot hooker.

As for centre - what is Nick Tomkins doing with Sarries at the moment? He looked like a star on the Saxons tour but he didn't feature last year.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 06:51
I think Tompkins featured during Farrel's international absences as well as during Barrit/Bosch's injury (can't remember which one got injured) last season.

He played youth rugby with our Levi Douglas I think - but don't quote me on this, it's casting my memory back much further than I care to remember.

Either way, I don't see much chance of us signing him. He's one of Sarries' best prospects, along with so many of their other academy graduates. Bosch can't have that many more seasons in him at 33 and Tompkins is probably considered his replacement.



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 07:54
Sarries seem to play a good game with always mixing experience and youth. One might have thought that Nathan Earle might be the natural successor to Chris Ashton but they sign up the 40+ cap Liam Williams to keep the show running. Goode and Barrit also continue to play vital roles in their season. Looking back, Abendanon could have been doing a similar job for us these past few years. Sometimes keeping hold of players is just as important and signing new ones.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 10:53
Pleased we got Auterac off them tbh



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
Weeksie
Weeksie (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 16:25
Read somewhere that Jonathan (Lions Tour star) Davies is off to Sarries the season after next.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 20:16
I don't think transfer fees do come out of the cap.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 20:26
They don't as they go to a club. Signing on fees / bonus etc would though as they are counted as salary.

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings
13 July, 2017 21:22
Quote:
BathMatt53
They don't as they go to a club. Signing on fees / bonus etc would though as they are counted as salary.

I stand corrected! Thanks both. I still think players will come in as the season progresses, maybe we are going for a tigers style approach when we are rubbish in the first half of the season but gradually build after Christmas and sneak into the playoffs!

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