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Gussieboy
Gussieboy (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 10:26
Garbageman you may not have done it constantly (although that is twice now) but the comment is made by the collective constantly, why not trying to combat what you perceive as negativity with a reasoned argument? Oh, and in answer to your last point, I prefer neither, both as boring and unreasoned as each other.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 11:41
Come now! Let's not bicker and argue about who doom-mongoured who. This is supposed to be a happy preseason!

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 12:05
I believe to have a healthy forum you need a balanced debate, I am B,B & W through to the core, however as an ex-player I am also a realist.

I would love to sit back and see us as an all conqueroring side, but we are not and despite having some wonderful world class players we have an equal amount of deficiencies.

Our first XV is as good as most in the AP, I do not believe we have the X factor sat in the bench that some do, and my main concern is what lies beneath the bench in terms of game winning options or AP level players.

I am hopeful some of our youngsters will come storming through - the likes of Zach Mercer, Levi Douglas, Josh Bayliss etc, and I hope we snap up that Levi Davis he seems a really good prospect and I love his attitude.

We need to have a realistic view of our team with the challenges ahead, I hope with lots of luck, no injuries and a great deal of fortune we may get near to top 4. Realistically I see us battling for 6,7,8 positions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/07/2017 16:42 by Ali1969.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 12:17
Quote:
Ali1969
I believe to have a healthy forum you need a balanced debate, I am B,B & W through to the core, however as an ex-player I am also a realist.
I would love to sit back and see us as an all conqueroring side, but we are not and despite having some wonderful world class players we have an equal amount of deficiencies.

Our first XV is as good as most in the AP, I do not believe we have the X factor sat in the bench that some do, and my main concern is what lies beneath the bench in terms of game winning options or AP level players.

I am hopeful some of our youngsters will come storming
through - the likes of Zach Mercer, Levi Douglas, Josh Bayliss etc, and I hope we snap up that Levi Davis he seems a really good prospect.

We need to have a realistic view of our team with the challenges ahead, I hope with lots of luck, no injuries and a great deal of fortune we may get near to top 4. Realistically I see us battling for 6,7,8 positions.

+1. A balanced logical discussion is what we need - neither "everything in the garden is rosy" nor the team & management is poor. Neither is anywhere near the truth.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 13:51
I don't see it as a doom-monger, more Purveyor of Rational Apprehensions and Thoughts.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 15:29
Quote:
DanWiley
I don't see it as a doom-monger, more Purveyor of Rational Apprehensions and Thoughts.

DanWiley king of the acronyms! smiling smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 18:53
Quote:
BathBurger
Come now! Let's not bicker and argue about who doom-mongoured who. This is supposed to be a happy preseason!
Well 10.5% on this site think we are doomed to 12th place!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 19:04
In view of our season start, potential weakness at tight head early season and scrum half if Kahn gets hurt, bedding in our 'new' playmaker (Burns), lack of a new, big, ball carrying centre, I don't think we will be 5th this season.

More probably we will be scrapping for 6th place, which if we achieve that, will be just about OK in my view. Any thing higher will be a real bonus.

I believe the so called 'easier' games like Newcastle and Worcester away (which we both lost last season) is not there as they are showing big improvements, especially at home.

Our home form is going to be vital and any points gained away are a great bonus. Bonus points are also crucial, as proved by sides like Exeter and Wasps who picked up points in virtually every game last season.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 21:16
Come on BoB you keep forgetting we beat Exeter away and would have beaten them at home had it not been for 3 x HIA's amongst the props.

And we put 50 points on Nec at home!

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 21:43
Just out of curiosity, what evidence are people basing their opinion that TB & TM are great coaches who will transform us into contenders next season?



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 21:59
They are from the southern hemisphere I'd guess.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 22:03
Tis the eternal optimism of the long term fan unsullied by the scourge of reality.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
30 July, 2017 22:28
Quote:
DanWiley
They are from the southern hemisphere I'd guess.

Am I right in thinking they never won anything with The Crusaders despite promising much?



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 07:34
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty positive about them, but in terms of what they've achived I don't think there's much that sets them apart. In a way that might be a good thing.

I'd still like an out and out dedicated scrum, possibly set piece, coach. I believe our front 5 can play as well as hats had nearly the same players playing a few years back and if we did we'd be a change in mental attitude away ( no small thing, but that I feel Todd can offer) from being serious contenders. Obvious hole aside (12), no new players required.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 08:23
We have a competent squad. The key is whether TB can instil team spirit and the players are playing for each other. I believe there was an uncomfortable situation last season which meant divided loyalties.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 09:10
Well this has definitely turned into a 'prospects' thread now!

I see that 1/2p is off to Scarlets according to the BBC. Rumour May to Tigers, Slater to Glos?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2017 09:12 by BathMatt53.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 09:11
Agree CC, nothing overt but one of those uncomfortable situations no-one wants to talk about.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 09:17
To be fair the Crusaders were always a contender under Todd and Tabai. Todd was in charge from 2009-2016 and their results in that period was as follows;

2009: Lost to the Bulls in Semi's
2010: Lose to the Bulls in Semi's
2011: Lost to the Reds in final
2012: Lost to the Chiefs in Semi's
2013: Lost to the Chiefs in Semi's
2014: Lost to the Waratahs in final
2015: 7th - missed out on playoff place
2016: Lost to the Lions in quarters

On this basis therefore throughout most of that period they had real success and this was whilst juggling Carter and McCaw absences. In each occasion other than 2015 and 2016 they lost to the eventual winner. That's a consistent standard of excellence albeit just missing the top honour themselves each year. They also had to play away from home in all of those games pretty much which is unfortunate.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 10:27
I'm a big NZ rugby fan and I was seriously excited to have these 2 in charge.
However, let's be honest, we performed better last season before they joined and while their influence was minor. The longer they were here the worse we started looking.
Newcastle at home was a very good performance and it was clear to see the 2 4 2 formation doing real damage.
I suppose with all the injuries it prevented consistency and momentum, I'm sure we can all accept that.
However, this season we'll see what they're really about as coaches. But based on last season it's not in any way a given the same players will be that much better because last year it actually went the other way.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 10:51
We ground out some tight, conservative wins early on (it might have been while their influence was minor, but they were both in place before the season actually started). We started developing a style of play second half, and had some underwhelming performances mostly due to injuries and 6N absences. The disruption around Ford shouldn't be underestimated. That being said, you're correct that the current verdict is 'unproven'.

At least we started to develop a style and a gameplan that wasn't just oriented around individual skill for the first time in about 4-5 seasons. If we can get everyone playing to that plan then we've got a chance. I'm more hopeful about that than anything else.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 10:52
Perhaps the decline in results towards the end of the season Danchinho was less to do with the coaches and more to do with the players.. has anyone actually considered this?

I thought we actually started to play worse with some of our big names in the team and perhaps this is because the likes of Dunn, Zach Mercer etc still have that drive to want to perform for Bath alone and are not worried about injuries because they have one eye on internationals here or there...

I don't want to single players out that I think this could have applied to but I think there are a number that this maybe applied to whilst others came in and really performed with aplomb in their absence at the start of the year!

 
Pie-Half
Pie-Half (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 11:13
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Seems that the little Leigh Saga has ended

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 11:25
Certainly our early season form was exceptional and no one predicted it, beginning with winning at Saints for the first time in donkey's years.

We definitely tailed off as the season went on and our away games at Newcastle and Worcester were awful. I don't accept it was caused by injury absence as all sides had various guys unavailable. Much more about the lack of team togetherness and spirit, poor skills and leadership, much caused by the impending departure of a certain fly half. I still say the club should have put him on gardening leave and just played the guys who were and wanted to stay. That would have sent out a message about only playing those who were fully committed and helping to rebuild team spirit and giving experience of playing together for the remainers.

I do believe TB and TM could be the coaches (difficult to name other available suitable candidates) we have craved as long as they are given a chance to bed in and the players start doing exactly what they want. Our very tough league start is going to set the scene, and without our first choice tight heads is going to be very tough indeed, as well as the returning Lions may not be fully up to speed by then.

I am relatively optimistic but in reality cannot see us winning trophies this season, especially as some of our younger players will have to continue improving and we all know how difficult the second season is after breaking into the side. But the following one could be really good. Time will tell.

I am sticking to my prediction of us finishing 6th after a battle to be acceptable and we will have done well. Hopefully, our youngsters greater experience and the side coming together properly, with one or two quality additions, will be a springboard to a brighter future enabling us to better compete with the likes of Saracens, Wasps, Exeter and Leicester.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 13:31
To be honest it probably depends upon what we see as successful. Given the disruptions of the last few years I believe making the Aviva Prem playoffs, into the Champions Cup Quarters (and at very least giving a good account of ourselves in this comp) and perhaps a run in the Anglo-Welsh as a good season even if we win nothing.

Remember that the current top sides in Europe had to lose a lot of big games before they started winning them. Saracens lost two finals in one season at one point whilst Clermont - who I am sure we would all love to play like and make the finals they do each year - still continue to not quite win anything! With a young squad and coaches that are still bedding in and trying to form the squad they actually want, as opposed to the one they have inherited, I would be happy with just an improved style of play and competitiveness even if we win the same amount as last year and did miss out.

As long as there is the signs of improvement and we DO NOT lose what should be straightforward away games in the same manner we did last year I'd be happy given there will be some disruptions again this year with JJ, Faletau and Watson all missing at the start and a new fly half to lead the team.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 14:07
" believe making the Aviva Prem playoffs, into the Champions Cup Quarters (and at very least giving a good account of ourselves in this comp) and perhaps a run in the Anglo-Welsh as a good season even if we win nothing. "

Given the luck involved in winning anything, I'd say that's probably about as much as any team can expect. I don't think there is a team in the prem that can be going into the season with much more than hopes of doing better than that.


"As long as there is the signs of improvement and we DO NOT lose what should be straightforward away games in the same manner we did last year I'd be happy"

I'd say that any team can beat any other on their day, and this is good thing. Given that I'd think basing what a good season is on not losing even straightforward away games is a bit of a tall order.

I think I'd be happy if we can go into any game feeling there's a decent chance of winning, say 30% away against Sarries or Exeter.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 14:33
I think perhaps what was most disappointing in the away losses was that we got outclassed by much poorer sides and did not look up for the match at all in some!

We lost away to Bristol, Worcester and Sale (the bottom 3) last year and these should have been games whereby if we were to lose it was because of an inspired performance by the home team making them close to unplayable - I feel we actually just barely turned up for those games in reality and they were the difference in the end between finishing 4th and 5th for us!

I don't expect us to go to Allianz and spank Saracens by any stretch of the imagination but I would like our away form to at least be recognisable of our home form! Instead we looked sluggish and unprepared in each. I wonder whether this is to do with when we decide to travel to the games? Would going up an extra day before help the boys switch on when we go to then play as opposed to an early morning trip up like I believe they do on most occasions?

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 14:41
I think a lot of people on here are being way too harsh on your squad and coaches or think your team is better than it actually is and i think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I do think from the outside looking in, you have a very good squad with major strengths in some areas like back 3 and your back row.

You do have some areas where you are not as good but that's to be expected, i think your starting XV and squad can get you into the top 4 with some luck with injuries but i also think the league is much tougher this year and it will be super hard to make the top 4.

I still think sarries, wasps, exeter are ahead of you and are the best three teams in the league and i expect those three to finish ahead of you. You are in the same group as Leicester, Quins, Northampton and maybe Newcastle as the other teams that can make the top 4 and who knows you never know what can happen in a one off game.

So while i don't think you will win the league and i think you are still behind some other teams, if you make the top 4, you have as good a chance as anyone to win it at that point.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 14:56
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I think a lot of people on here are being way too harsh on your squad and coaches or think your team is better than it actually is and i think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I do think from the outside looking in, you have a very good squad with major strengths in some areas like back 3 and your back row.

You do have some areas where you are not as good but that's to be expected, i think your starting XV and squad can get you into the top 4 with some luck with injuries but i also think the league is much tougher this year and it will be super hard to make the top 4.

I still think sarries, wasps, exeter are ahead of you and are the best three teams in the league and i expect those three to finish ahead of you. You are in the same group as Leicester, Quins, Northampton and maybe Newcastle as the other teams that can make the top 4 and who knows you never know what can happen in a one off game.

So while i don't think you will win the league and i think you are still behind some other teams, if you make the top 4, you have as good a chance as anyone to win it at that point.

I agree with all that BS which I don't think is much different from what most of us think. I don't think many of us feel we are a bottom half team given our personnel. However I don't agree with your last paragraph.

 
Tiger in the Bath
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 14:59
Statistically, you have to make the top 2 to have as good a chance as anybody. Since the playoffs began, the team finishing top has won 5 titles, 2nd 8 titles, 3rd none and 4th 1 (sarries in 14/15)

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 15:07
Yep, 4th-6th sounds sensible

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 15:34
The reason we lost to the likes of Bristol, Newcastle, Sale, Worcester away is that unlike the top teams, some of the understudies being used to rest 1sr XV were not up to AP standard and secondly we allowed ourselves to be dragged down to their level and therefore into a dogfight on enemy turf which we lost & lastly referee/touch judge interpretations which you cannot plan for.

Our 1 XV and probably 2 or 3 others from the squad are as good as anyone in the AP but the remainder of the squad unfortunately if you look through clear non tinted glasses most will agree the likes of KPN, Will Homer, Jeff Williams, Rory Jennings are probably not AP standard - perhaps I am being slightly harsh to Jeff Williams!!!

The remainder of the academy is untested.

I am really hopeful for the new season, but cannot help but be concerned with our lack of forward firepower and reserves.

Already our coach is talking about our injury list with players missing - most notably hookers and our two first choice TH props who are NOT going to be fit to start the AP season - Huge loss and potentially crippling. No point having a brilliant back row and back line if you don't secur your ball. Home Form going to be crucial this year. I hope we will challenge for top 4 and get a good run in the Champions Cup but realistically I think we may struggle to get out of our group in the Champions Cup and finish 6/7 in the AP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2017 15:38 by Ali1969.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 15:40
I think that's pretty harsh. I think some of the understudies (particularly Ellis, Mercer, Clark) performed very well. The problem with that Feb-March period is that we were pretty much all understudy, due to injuries (particularly hooker, lock, back row, centre), England/Wales call-ups and very irritatingly-timed bans to Flouw and Khan.

 
ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 15:55
I was at the Newcastle and Bristol games and I assure you that it was not just the understudies who didn't appear to be Premiership quality.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 16:00
Quote:
hasta
I think that's pretty harsh. I think some of the understudies (particularly Ellis, Mercer, Clark) performed very well. The problem with that Feb-March period is that we were pretty much all understudy, due to injuries (particularly hooker, lock, back row, centre), England/Wales call-ups and very irritatingly-timed bans to Flouw and Khan.

From my recollection, the young ones stepped up brilliantly at the beginning of the season, but then tailed off a bit at the end. Maybe age isn't everything when it comes to stamina.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 16:06
Newcastle was very disappointing I agree - although they're a very decent team on a plastic pitch. That was a failure of team playing for each other as much as anything.

Team against Bris was:

Bristol   Position 
Obano      1
Batty      2
Lahiff     3
Stooke     4
Ewels      5
Ellis      6
Denton     7
Grant      8
Cook       9
Priestland 10
Davies     11
Tapuai     12
Joseph     13
Rokoduguni 14
Homer      15

I make that 4 first choice players.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 16:08
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
hasta
I think that's pretty harsh. I think some of the understudies (particularly Ellis, Mercer, Clark) performed very well. The problem with that Feb-March period is that we were pretty much all understudy, due to injuries (particularly hooker, lock, back row, centre), England/Wales call-ups and very irritatingly-timed bans to Flouw and Khan.

From my recollection, the young ones stepped up brilliantly at the beginning of the season, but then tailed off a bit at the end. Maybe age isn't everything when it comes to stamina.

My point is that at the start of the season they were supplementing the team and had little pressure. Later on they were being asked to carry the team and were (unsurprisingly) not really up to it. Not a criticism of them or their potential.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 17:13
Quote:
hasta
Newcastle was very disappointing I agree - although they're a very decent team on a plastic pitch. That was a failure of team playing for each other as much as anything.
Team against Bris was:

Bristol   Position 
Obano      1
Batty      2
Lahiff     3
Stooke     4
Ewels      5
Ellis      6
Denton     7
Grant      8
Cook       9
Priestland 10
Davies     11
Tapuai     12
Joseph     13
Rokoduguni 14
Homer      15

I make that 4 first choice players.

Based on last seasons regular starting lineup I'd say Batty, Lahiff, Ewels, Ellis, Tapuai, Joseph, Roko and Homer are all starters there and that's being harsh on Denton and Priestland who are internationals and Stooke who was one of the better performers that day... 8/15 is a majority of our starting 1st team and that Bristol game wasn't even a case of the subs weakening the team when they came on as we did not have a grip on the game at any point of it!

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 17:20
I found this online of players who are confirmed as in/out for their respective Super Rugby franchises for next year. There are a lot of centres not confirmed as committed to their squads we could pilfer who would not cost an arm and a leg but may be open to the move.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Johnny Fa'auli are the Chiefs impressed me when he got the chance this year. Big hitter and strong carrying 12 (which I believe is what we are after?)

Rob Thompson at the Highlanders is similarly a strong carrying 12 with some good skills to match.

The Blues have a number of midfielders out of contract. Ranger is returning to France I saw but George Moala could be an excellent option for us?

Francois Venter is also potentially available from the Cheetahs?

Ones we can rule out as they have a contract are Ngatai, Lienert Brown, Tamanivalu, Crotty etc.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 18:20
Fa'auli and Thompson would be ideal for what we're looking for. Moala tends to play OC or wing I believe. Can't say I know anything about Venter but at this point any large 12 would be welcome imho.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 19:36
Quote:
Big Dog
Quote:
hasta
Newcastle was very disappointing I agree - although they're a very decent team on a plastic pitch. That was a failure of team playing for each other as much as anything.
Team against Bris was:

Bristol   Position 
Obano      1
Batty      2
Lahiff     3
Stooke     4
Ewels      5
Ellis      6
Denton     7
Grant      8
Cook       9
Priestland 10
Davies     11
Tapuai     12
Joseph     13
Rokoduguni 14
Homer      15

I make that 4 first choice players.

Based on last seasons regular starting lineup I'd say Batty, Lahiff, Ewels, Ellis, Tapuai, Joseph, Roko and Homer are all starters there and that's being harsh on Denton and Priestland who are internationals and Stooke who was one of the better performers that day... 8/15 is a majority of our starting 1st team and that Bristol game wasn't even a case of the subs weakening the team when they came on as we did not have a grip on the game at any point of it!

Batty, Tapuai, JJ, Roko are 4 first choice players. Ewels is arguable. Lahiff is a converted loosehead. Ellis, Denton, Homer and Priestland were certainly not first choice, being behind Garvey, Louw, Watson and Ford respectively. We played poorly. We should still have won. That was basically a United strength team (specifically the United strength when we won the A league, but still).

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 19:55
Going on from hasta's point those two games for which KF & FL were banned for, showed for me what a key player KF is.

Alas Cook was not up to the task and we as a team especially RP who thrives on a quick service suffered. So the fact we have chosen not to recruit in the S/H department from DA suggests the management are willing to give Cook another year to shine. Let's hope for the Clubs sake he does!!! Otherwise we are looking KF a year older having played international rugby all summer to go the entire season!! Tall order for a 20 year old let alone a thirty something...

Given our well documented issues in the front row, personally I would like us to go with Shaun Knight (big powerful old fashioned cornerstone of a prop) bit like Davey Wilson, and foresake his handling and speed around the pitch, the remainder of the pack will have to cover that part of his game.

Whatever happens for us to be successful and challenge we must win front foot ball and minimum secure our own scrum and line out ball. Then we will see what damage our world class back row and back line can do.

Oh yes I forgot one thing: Let's hope for the driest 9 months this country has ever seen!!!

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 19:59
Although I do view TB/TM and, Bath in general, in a positive light... part of me does worry that Todd is the 'Stuart Lancaster' of England; the middle man who gets a team to where they need to be and does well, but only ever achieved 2nd place and cannot quite deliver that final bit of execution. Nevertheless, I remain optimistic that I am wrong about this or that Matson is the man who brings that bit of execution.

Also, I think we will perform better in the league simply because Bristol aren't in it.
Although it shouldn't make a difference whether we're playing Bristol or L'Irish, all of the matches we played against Bristol were dogged, scrappy affairs. Whereas many of our players come from L'Irish with the experience of the stadium and we also just tend to perform particularly well against them racking up BPs both home and away - if memory serves me correct.



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
31 July, 2017 22:00
I thought we just ended up kicking the ball away too often and very aimlessly. We weren't good at defending broken play. TB has already identified how predictable our kick return was and FB was exceptional at kicking corners for Tigers.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 05:54
Luke Romano anyone?

Posted to Facebook last night: quote: "Heard whispers today that we might be looking at Luke Romano, former All Black lock."

Lock wasn't an area I thought needed strengthening, but why not!

I'll be happy with Romano.

 
BathOtter
BathOtter (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 07:57
Would explain the delayed announcement as hasn't finished with Crusaders, and maybe Phillips viewed more as back row rather than 2nd?

I'd be happy - effectively squeezed out of ABs by Retallick! Not a bad guy to be ousted by...

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 08:28
Though there are a couple of more pressing requirements we could really do with another lock in the Atwood/Greenock mold.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 08:33
Isn't he a 4 which would mean he is on the field with Atters? Would be better than Charteris imo as age appears to have caught up with him.

Fingers crossed.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:04
Quote:
BathMatt53
Isn't he a 4 which would mean he is on the field with Atters? Would be better than Charteris imo as age appears to have caught up with him.
Fingers crossed.

If you look at who played no.4 and no.5 each game last season there is no consistency. It doesn't seem that we have one lock that only played in one jersey.

Unless of course their number meant nothing when they were on the field and there could have been a pattern on field that the stats don't show.

Starts by position:
Attwood: #4 7, #5 8
Charteris: #4 6, #5 8
Ewels: #4 10, #5 7
Stooke: #4 9, #5 9

(Sorry for the crude table)

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:15
Thanks BS shows how much I paid attention at the games! Charteris is never a TH lock...

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:19
How much of it is injury driven - I. e. Just putting out those that are left available and how much is the coaches experimenting I'm not sure?

But Todd himself said (in the now infamous 6/7player interview), that they were searching for a TH lock and they were like gold dust. So there has to be something in it (about selecting one side or the other).

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:28
Quote:
by
I thought we just ended up kicking the ball away too often and very aimlessly. We weren't good at defending broken play. TB has already identified how predictable our kick return was and FB was exceptional at kicking corners for Tigers.

Yes, but the pinpoint accuracy that our half backs (and 12) delivered the ball to Wade, Beale and LeRoux, in March was a thing of beauty

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:32
It was Malco on the Facebook group saying that.

Would be a very good signing for us, though I'm not quite sure who would fall down the pecking order.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:34
Quote:
by
It was Malco on the Facebook group saying that.
Would be a very good signing for us, though I'm not quite sure who would fall down the pecking order.

Would Romano be a starter?

 
MESSAGES->author
Robbinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:41
Wonder if we need reinforcement with Charteris/Attwood ongoing injuries.

Although we do have to remember, by his own admission, Malco gets paid by agents to spread rumours, some of which are untrue.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:43
You'd think so, I'd say Attwood and Romano would be the first choice pairing even if they are both considered as TH locks.

I do wonder how confident Todd is about Attwood's fitness.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:52
Charlie Ewels to cover blindside?

Better line out forward than Garvey and more mobile.

Any coincidence that Ewels played 3 matches in the back row last season:

Blindside:
Newcastle H 58-5 win
Worcester H 37-22 win

No.8:
Exeter A 10-13 win

All wins and some of our best wins last year!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 09:56
Notwithstanding the stats above Romano normally wears 4 and Attwood 5. They would surely have to be the 1st choice (would help out the front row too).

 
MESSAGES->author
Robbinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:01
Think I'd be more concerned by Charteris' fitness, to be honest. 9 starts and 575 minutes in the league all season. Attwood had 11 starts adn 824 minutes.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:05
Romano would be a starter IMHO and a fantastic signing.

He unlucky to not make the AB squad this summer. The form lock in the S15 according to some commentators. I think he's just what we need in the pack, and I assume knows Todd and Tabs well so could slot straight in.

Romano + a 12 of some description and I'm happy.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:11
Has Charteris ever played 3 games in a row for us?
I think he's been a serious disappointment tbh.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:14
Charteris was probably signed with the understanding that he wouldn't be able to play week in, week out, a bit like big Jim with Sarries who has left after having to play a bit too much last season.

Correction: He actually retired but he was originally suppose to sign with London Irish saying that he can't play in the ECC anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2017 10:16 by by.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:20
Quote:
Danchinho
Has Charteris ever played 3 games in a row for us?
I think he's been a serious disappointment tbh.

Starting? Yes, once. 3 games only though.

Pau, Bristol and Exeter in October.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:37
Quote:
BathMatt53
(would help out the front row too).

Two big scrumaging locks, with a ball carrying front row sounds good to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2017 10:49 by BathSalmon.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 10:46
Charteris was too old when we signed him and was always a surprise to me in view of his club injury record.

Personally I believe Stooke and Ewells easily performed better than him consistently last season, and for a man of his experience, he has been a huge disappointment, no doubt using up a big chunk of salary cap as well.

Let him go and get this man Romano in, he couldn't be any worse, and probably much more skillful and mobile.

Still we need a tight head and a big ball carrying/footballing centre in an ideal world.

Also, I would like us to sign a young scrum half with potential, someone like either Maunder or Townsend from Exeter. With their signing Nic White, the ex Aussie International, and still having Chudley as the most experienced performer, they will have a problem keeping them all interested and I would of thought someone like Townsend would see his way to being number two at Bath with the potential to take over as number one, when Kahn gets too old or retires. Kahn is 35 and as good as he is, will not go on forever.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 11:37
"I would like us to sign a young scrum half with potential, someone like either Maunder or Townsend from Exeter."

Or perhaps that young Will Homer lad. Is he still at London Irish?

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 12:11
Romano would be a tremendous signing imo. A really hard ball carrier, aggressive as you like in defence and a solid set piece operator. Would make a fantastic starting pair with Attwood and then you have Ewels and Stooke who can rotate in too.
May signal the end of Charteris' run here though unless he can provide some injury free runs and show some real form! Would free up Ewels to play more at 6 too to cover Ellis' injury along with Garvey and Phillips I guess too which gives the coaches more options.

Romano + a quality centre and we would probably survive and still do well this season imo.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 12:20
The only thing I've seen Charteris being useful at is defending a maul. He really manages to reach over and make life difficult for the attacking pack. Everything else, especially lineouts has been a let down.
I say lineouts because, being that tall, I expected him to not only win most of ours but seriously disrupt the opposition's. Hasn't happened though.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 12:55
I can't argue with some of the Charteris criticism but I would point out that when he was fit it coincided with his availability for Wales where he put in some pretty competent performances. I also think he was underused at the line-out, possibly due to throwing inaccuracy or lack of game time. All in all I wouldn't bin him yet!

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 13:11
Well he joined on a 3 year deal so he will be around for a while yet. Let's hope he has a clear run and find the form that he has shown in the past.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 13:14
Ok so he isn't superman, but he hasn't been that bad

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
03 August, 2017 13:39
Personally disagree with the criticism against Charteris, it is what it is, hes 34 and coming to the end of his career. Hes put in some decent shifts, even a couple of 80 minute appearances and has probably brought a lot of knowledge to the younger guys like Ewels and Stooke. I can't imagine he is taking up that much salary cap, he lives in Bath anyways, if he wanted a payday he'd have stayed in France.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 08:07
It would be an interesting signing, but it doesn't feel like we've got a very coherent recruitment policy. It doesn't feel to me like we're in any need of a second row and signing players we don't need pretty directly means we've not got the money to spend on players we do.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 08:23
Todd had specifically mentioned a lock as one of the 3 positions where we do need another body.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 08:42
Quote:
DanWiley
It would be an interesting signing, but it doesn't feel like we've got a very coherent recruitment policy. It doesn't feel to me like we're in any need of a second row and signing players we don't need pretty directly means we've not got the money to spend on players we do.

+1



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 08:49
Quote:
Robbinho
Although we do have to remember, by his own admission, Malco gets paid by agents to spread rumours, some of which are untrue.

That is news to me. Has he actually admitted that? However, even with the best of intentions many of Malco's rumours didn't materialise so we don't want to get too excited. This guy would seem to be a very useful addition in view of Atwood & Charteris's appearance records.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2017 13:33 by Bath Hammer.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 10:03
Quote:
DanWiley
It would be an interesting signing, but it doesn't feel like we've got a very coherent recruitment policy. It doesn't feel to me like we're in any need of a second row and signing players we don't need pretty directly means we've not got the money to spend on players we do.

Tricky to have one of those wen we have such a limited choice of players, problem is we don't really know about these fitness issues in the second row. Plus it's in no way substantiated yet.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 10:19
IMHO Chateris is a great player - I think some of the criticism is really harsh - Yes he is in the twilight of his fantastic career - but he brings a lot of experience which is invaluable in tight situations and a old head is something we lack in our front 5.

LR would be an outstanding acquisition if we can secure him - this would go a long way to shoring up our front row, particularly on the TH side - Although Shaun Knight might yet be our savour - He is has the reputation throughout the AP of being an excellent scrummager and all round tough customer albeit not a ball player as such - play Knight as a starter and bring on HT at about 55 mins.

The great thing about recruiting an AB lock (If it happens) is that despite being an enforcer they will also be a ball handler - something which is bread into New Zealand players from a young age.

Charlie Ewels is the future and he has the unique ability a bit like Josh Beaumont and I suppose Dean Ryan in his heyday of being equally comfortable playing 6, 8, 4 or 5 - He is the future along with the likes of Elliot Stooke, Tom Ellis etc...

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 10:19
The problem seems to be that when injury strikes it is always in the same position. Last year it was back row early season and then front row particulalrly Hooker in later season. If the injury curse hit second row we would need as much cover as possible. Unfortunately you cannot plan for this unless you can get 4 AP level players in every position and then 2 pretty good backups. But the cap and BC's pockets don't stretch that far. A positional strength can very quickly become a weakness (e.g. Denton and Faletau being injured on first game last year - before that we would have said No 8 was a strength)

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 11:32
Luke Romano is someone I could get very excited about! Big, hard and ball playing is excellent news especially in tandem with the tractor power and tackling of DA... he is also going to be avi all year round, which shouldn't be underestimated.
I agree re: Shaun knight. Yes it's preferable to have a ball player than one who cannot, but TH prop is probably where that's least necessary (he's not going to be initiating dummy switch pops off first phase ball) so to have someone on the books who is a renowned scrummager to me is something positive. I also think as fans a lot of us have underestimated him. This then allows for KPN off the bench (who does have soft hands) whilst HT and ML are recovering and then allows for a great deal of competition for the 3 shirt. If we cast our minds back to the Auterac, Batty, Thomas trio off the bench in the MF era, they were truly nothing to be sniffed at. A big second row pairing allows us to complement that and I think Romano could be a very astute and indeed useful signing going forward.
Whilst we await a big 12, let's get Romano on our books and up to Farleigh sooner rather than later

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 15:34
"Quote:
Robbinho
Although we do have to remember, by his own admission, Malco gets paid by agents to spread rumours, some of which are untrue.

That is news to me. Has he actually admitted that? However, even with the best of intentions many of Malco's rumours didn't materialise so we don't want to get too excited."

Yes, he was quite candid about it on a thread a while back.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 17:28
Romano is probably just another player being linked to us that won't sign and just turns out to be a decent distraction for the lack of transfer activity.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 18:40
Being 'linked to us' means a random post on Facebook. But harsh to hold that against the club.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 19:52
Quote:
OutsideBath
Romano is probably just another player being linked to us that won't sign and just turns out to be a decent distraction for the lack of transfer activity.

That's the spirit OB.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 20:04
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Romano is probably just another player being linked to us that won't sign and just turns out to be a decent distraction for the lack of transfer activity.

That's the spirit OB.

Well the transfer activity to improve the team has hardly been inspiring has it?



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
04 August, 2017 20:53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Romano is probably just another player being linked to us that won't sign and just turns out to be a decent distraction for the lack of transfer activity.

That's the spirit OB.

Well the transfer activity to improve the team has hardly been inspiring has it?

Trouble is OB you want ANY transfer activity now. I would like to see us get the right transfer when they are available.

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: New Signings and updates merged
05 August, 2017 19:41
Romano was pretty solid coming off the bench for Crusaders against Lions in the Super League final today. Good line out steal and afew good carries. Be interestint t see how Prem teams would fare against those 2 sides. Looked to be playing a far faster game. Didn't here the ref say "use it" to the Scrum half once in the match.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
05 August, 2017 22:30
According to chron Romano is a random rumour started on Facebook so I'm not getting too excited, I though it may be a bit more substantive.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
07 August, 2017 11:14
Romano is Malco's rumour. He won't have posted it without reason.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
07 August, 2017 12:35
Romano is included in the AB squad for the RCC, but then again so is Kerr-Barlow and then hes off to La Rochelle. If we are signing Romano, hopefully we'll hear about it now that super rugby is over.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
07 August, 2017 20:35
Bumped in to Paul Grant at Sainsburys today. Looking big and sharp. Also seen a fair bit of banners doing his new house up and picking his kids up from school - constantly a big smile on his face. Worry less about the transfers guys - get behind the players we already have!

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
07 August, 2017 22:57
Jesus....



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
07 August, 2017 23:25
Quote:
Danchinho
Jesus....

Interesting signing. Can turn water into wine, but can he convert a 60m kick in difficult conditions? Not worth the money I reckon.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 00:07
Quote:
BathBurger
Quote:
Danchinho
Jesus....

Interesting signing. Can turn water into wine, but can he convert a 60m kick in difficult conditions? Not worth the money I reckon.

I imagine his ability to move in mysterious ways makes him a nightmare to tackle.

Plus, if my (admittedly rusty) theology is correct, you get three players for the price of one...



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2017 00:10 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 06:47
Good on waterlogged pitches and should save the Bars some money on wine

 
MESSAGES->author
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 07:06
Quote:
dannyf2
Bumped in to Paul Grant at Sainsburys today. Looking big and sharp. Also seen a fair bit of banners doing his new house up and picking his kids up from school - constantly a big smile on his face. Worry less about the transfers guys - get behind the players we already have!

Love the idea that Paul Grant was 'looking sharp' in Sainsers...weaving between the aisles carrying a packet of fresh pasta before leaping onto the conveyor and smashing it down on the scanner presumably? I'll bet he even remembered his carrier bag and nectar card (easy to forget)...

 
ken_jnr
ken_jnr (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 08:27
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
dannyf2
Bumped in to Paul Grant at Sainsburys today. Looking big and sharp. Also seen a fair bit of banners doing his new house up and picking his kids up from school - constantly a big smile on his face. Worry less about the transfers guys - get behind the players we already have!

Love the idea that Paul Grant was 'looking sharp' in Sainsers...weaving between the aisles carrying a packet of fresh pasta before leaping onto the conveyor and smashing it down on the scanner presumably? I'll bet he even remembered his carrier bag and nectar card (easy to forget)...

I took it to mean he was wearing a well tailored suit, had a new hair do and was giving off an air of aloof cool.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 08:52
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
BathBurger
Quote:
Danchinho
Jesus....

Interesting signing. Can turn water into wine, but can he convert a 60m kick in difficult conditions? Not worth the money I reckon.

I imagine his ability to move in mysterious ways makes him a nightmare to tackle.

Plus, if my (admittedly rusty) theology is correct, you get three players for the price of one...

He could cover #3, 9 and 12, nailed on starter each week imho...

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 09:35
Many think that he was the best No2 to ever walk the planet though there is also a lot that don't agree with that view

 
MESSAGES->author
Robbinho (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 09:46
Not sure he's terribly keen on the expression 'nailed on'

 
OBinexile
OBinexile (IP Logged)

Re: New Signings and updates merged
08 August, 2017 09:57
Made I larff

OBinExile

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