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nick holder
nick holder (IP Logged)

England problems
07 August, 2017 11:44
England players Manu Tuilagi and Denny Solomona have been sent home from a training camp over "team culture issues", says the Rugby Football Union.

The RFU said it would not be making any further comment.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 11:50
Oh dear, Manu. Yet another reason why Roko should be in that squad.

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 11:57
Chris Jones at BBC says that it is 'alcohol related'. The lad doesn't seem to learn does he?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 11:57
Obviously we do not know what has gone on here but it is very sad for English Rugby if two of our top players cannot join in with everyone else in the team.

Manu has had some behavioral problems in the past which many put down to youthful exuberance but obviously something else has upset EJ and that is sad as he has a wonderful talent. He will never truly forfil that unless he tempers his actions.

I had heard Solomona could be 'difficult and prickly' but again he has shown he has a talent for scoring tries which England want and need. Very sad day but again it shows Eddie and his team will not stand any nonsense in the quest for World Cup glory which is to be commended.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:12
Both could be potent 'strikers" for England. Let's hope they take the hint, knuckle down and do what's expected of them.

Eddie strikes me as one who will persevere with talent, but won't tolerate ongoing misdemeanour if he suspects the "attitude" is not right.

Could be they are on borrowed time.

PG

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:13
Uh oh.. You know you've @#$%& off the boss when he sends you home from a training camp that isn't even prior to any tests and therefore not overly important!!

Would be a shame if it is alcohol related. You'd hope in this day and age that with the season starting in a few weeks that they wouldn't be getting p****d up at this time of the year much at all given it is pre-season!

Will wait with interest to hear more!

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:17
Doubt Matt O'Connor, mates with EJ, will be too impressed with Manu.

Suspect Diamond will be a bit more 'unfussed' about Denny.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:21
They only met up for one day.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:25
Think it was three days but a few Lions were only there for one.

 
West Wilts Wanderer

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:34
No sympathy at all.
If you can't knuckle down as a pro and stay off the sauce whilst only on a 3 day camp where you're trying to impress the boss then off you trot. We have plenty of talent waiting to take the chance, who hopefully understand self control and a teamwork ethos.
There's a time and place in Rugby culture for a swift half and this was neither.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:40
EJ has said before that the players are treated as adults and if they want a beer or two they won't be stopped. I guess that comes with the expectation that the players exert some self control and don't let that impact their training, if they can't do that then it certainly says a lot about their attitude to playing for England.

Good on EJ for setting a precedent.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:41
First it was the boat, then we had the bunny sign, then the police lady and now this. Imagine what else we might have had if he had been fit enough to make more squads. Australia have had these sort of things creep into the squad and Eddie has a firm grip on the pump.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 12:51
With the number of players jostling for a place in the EPS, it's quite handy for Eddie to a/ cut a couple out of contention without having to think too hard, and b/ send a message to everyone else who wants to be in the squad

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 13:36
The problem for England is that we could do with some size and power in the backs as an option. Earle doesn't look like an option, so that only leaves us with Teo.

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 14:26
Will Hurrell if you want a centre who smashes and works (i.e. someone totally different from our elusive options)? Will Greenwood said that despite being in a relegated team Hurrell was nearly his player of the season...and he knows a bit about centres.

(I would love Hurrell at Bath, shame it isn't going to happen)

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 14:30
Hurrell must be close to getting in, stand out for Bristol last season.

 
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OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 14:36
We don't know all the facts so shouldn't jump to judge Tuilagi yet. If Jones lets this go and picks him then it was probably nothing but a minor misdemeanour.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
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jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 14:54
Quote:
cb2
The problem for England is that we could do with some size and power in the backs as an option. Earle doesn't look like an option, so that only leaves us with Teo.

Only if we want to play Warrenball. Otherwise Ford/Farrell/JJ plus Slade/Daly will serve very well thank you.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 18:27
What about wing? A bench option would be nice.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 19:57
Leopards don't change their spots. Additional info reports that he and the other guy were out 'enjoying' themselves last night a bit too much. Bit more than one or two beers.

Some of you need acquainting/reminding of his history. He came over from Samoa at 13, lived with his older Leicester playing brothers in a house in Leics, attending school - he is the youngest son. Later when playing for Leicester, it was discovered that his visitor visa had run out 6 years before, official steps taken to deport as illegal immigrant and only just by a whisker (i.e. retrieved at the airport, some reports say he was on the plane) escaped being deported. (Presumably RFU someone had a word). Then he continues to behave like an overgrown bear of little brain spoilt schoolboy. What's not to like?



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 20:33
Not sure what his historic visa status has to do with him going out on the lash when he was at an England camp?

What confuses me is why he didn't just go for a drink with his mate the evening that the England gathering had finished...just a bit of dim choice imo.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 20:36
What a pair of dimwits. Arrogant to say the least

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
07 August, 2017 20:52
Quote:
OutsideBath
We don't know all the facts so shouldn't jump to judge Tuilagi yet. If Jones lets this go and picks him then it was probably nothing but a minor misdemeanour.

The players are believed to have gone out drinking on Sunday evening and contravened the team's standards of behaviour.

The three-day camp in Middlesex was due to finish on Monday.

It is understood the England players all went out as a squad to dinner locally, and returned to their hotel as a group.

England head coach Eddie Jones rarely enforces alcohol bans or curfews on his players, but Tuilagi and Solomona then left the hotel for a second time, returning in the early hours of Monday morning, thought to be as late as 04:00 BST.


The only crime committed was being stoopid...guilty as charged m'lud

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 08:39
Serial offender, unfortunately.

Just convinced Eddie he hasn't put it behind him.

 
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shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 08:52
Yep repeat offender OK, but if Leicester sacked him how many on here would refuse to accept him as a signing?

Clever by Eddie again, he's made a big issue at a meaningless camp to allow selection in the important games.

 
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BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 09:03
I wouldn't sign him on the 400k that he is reportedly on - too injury prone. If someone could guarantee me 15+ games a season of course most teams would bite your hand off tomfoolery or not.

 
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woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 09:29
In interviews he comes across as remarkably dim witted for a rugby player, that's probably the cause of his off field problems, add in his injury record and he starts to look a lot less valuable as an England player.

 
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Robbinho (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 09:55
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Leopards don't change their spots. Additional info reports that he and the other guy were out 'enjoying' themselves last night a bit too much. Bit more than one or two beers.
Some of you need acquainting/reminding of his history. He came over from Samoa at 13, lived with his older Leicester playing brothers in a house in Leics, attending school - he is the youngest son. Later when playing for Leicester, it was discovered that his visitor visa had run out 6 years before, official steps taken to deport as illegal immigrant and only just by a whisker (i.e. retrieved at the airport, some reports say he was on the plane) escaped being deported. (Presumably RFU someone had a word). Then he continues to behave like an overgrown bear of little brain spoilt schoolboy. What's not to like?

What on earth has any of that got to do with anything?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 11:03
Nothing, but who is looking after him as he doesn't seem able to do it himself? All that time out injured waiting for a chance.Would you trust him in a big final with the new rules? He will get a chance to impress with the backline at his club but will EJ have him back?

 
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shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 15:27
Bit of an odd reaction to this isn't it?

Manu Tuilagi might not be an acedemic but the one thing he is good at is rugby, why would he be more of a penalty risk because of his IQ. Why does he need looking after?
He is not the first to go on a binge either.

 
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hemington (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 16:40
He seems to have a problem making the right choice. Jump into the water or stay on board? Go to bed or go out for another jar? Want to play for England or do my own thing? make a good impression on newish England coach who has been bigging you up on your final return after injury and suspension or show him that his 'mature' culture isn't where it's at. Start training on a Monday well rested or with a hangover? If not someone to look after him he at least needs a two sided coin to help him
I seem to remember he never quite knew when the right choice was to pass the ball.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 22:15
Can't quite understand what the fuss is about.
England have managed pretty well without him for the past year or so.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 22:19
I think the point is hes been kept in the squad for ages despite being sick, then his first chance he is given to prove himself he behaves stupidly.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 22:52
I'd be quite happy to never see him in an England shirt again.

 
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hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
08 August, 2017 23:01
I wouldn't pick him for England because he has been nowhere near fit or consistent for more than four years. He shouldn't have been in the squad. The fact he then went on drinking (and, let's be clear, not just out for a couple, but out until 4) was stupid, particularly having just been talked up by Jones. His history (particularly as a kid) is utterly irrelevant. He's just a bloody idiot.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 08:53
We will have to see if he has lost his gas. He will always break tackles but can he get away from the defence? Can be put a run of games together for once?

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 11:24
What he did was stupid but some people have gone way overboard, he did something stupid but that should not mean he never plays for England. He should not be in the squad for the autumn but that's not only because of the silly thing he did, it is mainly because he needs more game time and he needs to play well and play every week, if he is still playing well in January, he should be selected in the six nations squad. He is a top player when fit and someone that would compliment Faz and ford and give england's attack another dimension.

I really don't know what IQ has to do with him being a good rugby player as someone seemed to suggest here, when he is fit and in form, he is one of the best players in the world, we have not seen that for years but if he ever gets back to 2012 form or anywhere near that, he would be starting in the six nations in 2018

 
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shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 11:54
I agree with you last point Barnetsarrie12 but not your first. EJ's first move was to put Dylan Hartley in the frame, that seemed to me to be part of the England rebound.

I think he is trying to do something similar with MT and DS, he likes edgy players. The AI's are development games, I think EJ won't play MT in the 6N unless he proves himself both at club and in the AI's.

However EJ has the ability to mix discipline with player management in a way Lancaster didn't. Those 2 my not make it to the full England side but it won't be because of "beer management" more likely loss of pace or poor defence knowing Eddie.

 
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woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 12:16
Not sure if the previous comment from Barnetsarrie refers to me, but this is what i said:

In interviews he comes across as remarkably dim witted for a rugby player, that's probably the cause of his off field problems, add in his injury record and he starts to look a lot less valuable as an England player.

I suggested the fact he is thick as pig $hit is why he keeps acting like a massive bell end off the pitch

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 12:58
Years back I'd heard that when Dan Carter had a drink he'd end up creating trouble for himself and others. Not sure if this was him being bolshy and aggressive or what, but apparently Jerry Collins was his designated minder with responsibility for keeping him in check.

Maybe they should consider something similar for Manu?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 13:01
Time is running out for experimenting. I think he will rest some starters and Lions in the Autumn and then be settled come the 6N. The next move from EJ is key.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 14:21
Interesting point shipwrecked, i do think Tuilagi needs more than one month's worth of work to get back into the team, the team for the autumn will be selected after only 4 or 5 games this season and unless he has 4 or 5 storming games, i don't think he should be in the squad for the AI's unless Eddie plans to start him, what tuilagi needs more than anything is game time and playing week in week out until January will be good for him, build his confidence and he can be ready to go.

I don't think he needs to be trialed for the team like a young player would, we all know tuilagi can play international rugby and is a top player when fit, he just needs to get fit and get a good run of games under his belt.

Fair enough woodpecker, tbh i am not sure if it was you i was referring to in particular and those comments are not very harsh, i can't remember who but there was someone who went to me way overboard by calling for the guy never to play for England again, it is not that big a deal, he made a stupid mistake, he got sent home, but if he gets back to form, he should be back in the team, why punish him twice, we don't have to cut our nose to spite our face over this issue, the guy has been punished, let's hope he gets fit and can contribute to England in the future

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 17:23
He hasn't played for several seasons therefore no one knows whether he will be as good as he was (though I always thought he was slightly overated one trick carthorse). Many players have had season long injuries and have never returned to their former selves.

He has made many stupid nmistakes. So did Cips and the Orange one Not to mention Gazza, Both, Bestie etc). History tells us these charachters are flawed and mange the straight and narrow at times but sooner or later their egos get the better of them. Do we want them as role models for the kids coming through?

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 19:41
The role model thing will open up another debate entirely, how he chooses to live his life outside rugby as long as he is not breaking the law is nobodies business and i will judge him on his ability on the rugby field and i am sure Eddie Jones will too.

He might never get back to where he was but he is only 26 and when he is at his peak, he is a player that takes the England backline to another level especially playing with a 10 that goes to the line like Ford and another 10 at 12. A fit Tuilagi at top form is as good or even better than most 13's and he has had dominant performances in an England shirt and like Eddie Jones said, very few players can destroy the all blacks like Manu did in 2012 and no one currently playing at 13 in England can do that.

The best thing for England is to hope he gets back to form and there is competition there between Te'o, Manu, JJ, Daly maybe but i think he stays at wing and possibly marchant

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England problems
09 August, 2017 19:45
Also apart from the police incident, most of Manu's problems have been silly and can be attributed to acting silly and acting like a kid, for example the bunny ears behind cameron or jumping off the ferry. This is an indiscretion that is being treated way more seriously than it should be treated.

I am not his biggest fan but the uproar to a pre season camp has been way over the top


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