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BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 16:39
Joins Bris?

[www.bristolrugby.co.uk]

Is this a late April fool? I would have given my left nut to have him at Bath...

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 16:51
Banking on coming straight back up then!

Just a 1 season deal? Haven't read it fully.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 16:55
Quote:
BathSalmon
Banking on coming straight back up then!
Just a 1 season deal? Haven't read it fully.

2 seasons starting 2018/2019. He does have a peculiar habit of announcing where he is going over a year early...wonder if we can pick him up from ulster for this season the same way that wasps did for them? Drat.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:03
Just a matter of time before they buy the PL title to go with this season's championship title.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:04
I had no idea he'd be up for grabs but how in Hell did we let him slip last us?



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:06
Quote:
quanco
I had no idea he'd be up for grabs but how in Hell did we let him slip last us?

Sounds as if his brother and Pat Lam had everything to do with it. Great signing for them (he says through gritted teeth),

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:19
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
BathSalmon
Banking on coming straight back up then!
Just a 1 season deal? Haven't read it fully.

2 seasons starting 2018/2019. He does have a peculiar habit of announcing where he is going over a year early...wonder if we can pick him up from ulster for this season the same way that wasps did for them? Drat.

So I'm guessing he's ruling himself out of the World Cup?

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:35
Doesn't stay anywhere long does he? Hired gun for sale?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 17:40
He stays until the end of his contracts which seems fair enough?

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 19:16
Wow, great signing.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 20:17
World class player good enough to get in any team except ABs. Bristol certainly learning from last year and preparing to make a strong bid IF and I mean IF they win promotion. Got to be odds on but you just never know even if they are a sure thing. Reminds me a bit of Pat Lam's old side Newcastle when they bought the title all those years ago.

Ulster will be playing CP into the ground this year and who would blame them, concur with BathMatt53 CP appears to honor his contract which is more than we can say of some of our big name signings of late.

I am sure Bristol if they do get promotion, will struggle to stay within the budget restrictions unless they get some creatful accountants.

I am hopeful of a signing being announced soon (Luke Romano) would be great but we do need to strengthen our front 5 and quickly especially with the injuries lingering on from last year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2017 20:19 by Ali1969.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 21:08
Isn't it a bit wierd Bath fans talking about salary cap and trying to buy titles? I get a bit uncomfortable when I read stuff like that...after all we spent big to try and win it and then got pulled up for it? I think that all the prem teams, as they undoubtedly will be the season after next, will be careful to stay on the right side of it. What it does mean is that they have chosen to put a lot of their eggs in one large fast and skilful basket...

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
10 August, 2017 23:09
Did we spend big? For many years we've have a small squad and the year we were accused of over spending I don't really recall is having any especially big names? Felt more like a clerical error to me.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 06:29
Yes we did, right up to the cap with and with headline signings such as burgess and kyle and others. I just find it awkward when we criticise other teams - we are all under the same pay constraints. (Maybe it's just me then!)

Having said all that...wowzers!

[www.telegraph.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 06:31 by BathMatt53.

 
ShortyinBurnham
ShortyinBurnham (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 07:23
That's too much money for one player. That is mad.

 
shhandy
shhandy (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 07:25
Bristol fan in peace.... I think this is just the inevitable inflation that started with boot money in amateur days, fully paid contracts when professional and now the escalator with a world market in players and rich men backing teams. Down to size of your wallet in the end - but we are all doing it. See you, hopefully, in 2018/19 with a rather different team from the one we patched together last year.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 07:27
This reminds us that we are going into a new season with a glaring gap at centre and no indication it will be filled.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 07:42
Priestland.

Play with two first receivers.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 08:08
Quote:
ShortyinBurnham
That's too much money for one player. That is mad.

Not necessarily, he is a top player and when the sarries players renew their contracts, Itoje, Faz and Billy will be earning close to that or in that range.

If there was no cap in place, players would already be earning over that amount

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 08:11
Bristol have signed well, they will get promoted this coming season, they have a top coach and they have made some great signings, Piutau is in his prime and Luatua is entering his prime and is a tremendous player and talent, they will be very strong when they come back in the 2018/19 season

 
ShortyinBurnham
ShortyinBurnham (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 08:15
True, but half the clubs would be losing massive amounts of money or have gone out of business by now.

I understand that the marquee players can earn more, but just not sure how sustainable it will be.

Having said that, would have loved him to have come to Bath.

Just seen that TB has confirmed that he is hoping to confirm more signings before our first premiership match.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 08:21
the cap is 7 million if 3 of your non marquee players are on close to £3m you dont have much for the rest of the squad.

Increasing the cap just means higher wages.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 08:32
No one of those players will be outside the squad as a marquee player and i presume that would be the most expensive player.

I do agree that increasing the cap means increasing wages but the TV money went up and it is only fair the players had a share of that.

I agree shorty that rugby is not yet at a place where we don't need a cap, i just think the increase in wages means teams have to manage their finances well, so for example after 2019, i expect our lions players will be paid a lot and that will mean we might not be able to afford a skelton or a schalk burger and we will have to use our academy, which is not a bad thing as the club has already started introducing academy players like Isiekwe, Ben Earl and Jack Nay and those players play in the same position as Burger and Skelton and would takeover after 2019 to help us with the cap.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 09:50
Didn't we sign Will Genia once? There is still a lot of stuff to sort out before he pulls on that coveted shirt.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 13:59
Unreal signing for Bristol! You'd have to think they'll come back up to the Prem with ease and then suddenly go into the top 8 on the basis of their squad and the signings they are making!

Puts a lot of pressure on teams like Sale, Worcester, Newcastle to sign big because Irish have not got a weak squad and Bristol when they come up next year will have Luatua, Madigan, Piutau etc! They'll be strong!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:12
Both Newcastle and Worcs have made a few good signings for this year. Mermoz, Flood, Matavesi won't make them any weaker so they remain a challenge for most up at Kingston Park. Totally agree about Bris though, they should be aiming top 6 with the guys that they have signed arguably they could well have a better squad than the likes of Glos. Should be fun!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:13
Is there no cap in the championship?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:32
No. Besides which he is joining the year after and will be a marquee anyway.

There is call for some sort of measure to limit the disparity within the league though.

[www.therugbypaper.co.uk]

“How can teams compete with sides like Bristol, who could come down with people like Steven Luatua getting paid £650,000? He’ll be on more than some squads in this league so that’s a massive mismatch that somebody should be looking at.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:42
so could you sign a load of stars on a 3 year contract, front end their salaries for year 1, then get promoted and go under the cap?

 
ShortyinBurnham
ShortyinBurnham (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:44
No, because the salary is averaged out of the length of the contract I believe.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 14:50
Yes its explicit in the salary cap rules, stops you having a different marquee every year and paying the bulk of that salary that year, for example.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 15:05
Quote:
woodpecker
Is there no cap in the championship?

No, but there should be to stop them buying their way out of the championship yet again.

If only there was a way for Yorkshire to stop them.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 15:26
I'm thinking of moving my pension and ISA away from that ba$tard

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 15:46
Quote:
BathMatt53
Totally agree about Bris though, they should be aiming top 6 with the guys that they have signed arguably they could well have a better squad than the likes of Glos. Should be fun!

Signing a load of stars doesn't automatically mean success. A number of clubs including ourselves have discovered that. The Exeter model is the one to follow.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 15:49
Quote:
woodpecker
I'm thinking of moving my pension and ISA away from that ba$tard

Are you Warren Buffet? If not I don't think that he would notice...their profit before tax was £218.9m in 2016.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 16:13
Afraid not, but if everyone who wasn't a bristol supporter moved their cash, he wouldnt be able to buy his way into the premiership

 
robtheh
robtheh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 16:29
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
Is there no cap in the championship?

No, but there should be to stop them buying their way out of the championship yet again.

If only there was a way for Yorkshire to stop them.

Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 16:32
He can't be a marquee if he's been in the Prem beforehand, surely?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 17:14
Quote:
Rawce
He can't be a marquee if he's been in the Prem beforehand, surely?

(c) A Club shall only be entitled to nominate a Player as their first Excluded Player who:
(i) has been a Player of the Club for at least two full Salary Cap Years prior to the
Salary Cap Year in which he is nominated as the Excluded Player; or
(ii) has not been a Player of any Club during the previous Salary Cap Year, other
than a Player who (A) qualifies under Regulation 3.3(c)(i) or (cool smiley has only
been a Player of a Club during the previous Salary Cap Year as a replacement
for an Injured Player following dispensation under Regulation 5; or
(iii) has been a Player (but not an Excluded Player) for the Club in the previous
Salary Cap Year and was not a Player for any other Club for at least one Salary
Cap Year immediately prior to joining the Club.

(d) A Club shall only be entitled to nominate a Player as a second Excluded Player who:
(i) has not been a Player of any Club during the previous Salary Cap Year; or
(ii) was that Club’s second Excluded Player in the previous Salary Cap Year.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 17:18
Quote:
robtheh
Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

As looooooong as Bris took? Don't know that much about the Championship to be honest I will bow to your (extensive) experience.

Looking forward to 2018/19 season, hope to see the West sides battling for something meaningful just like the old days....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 17:19 by BathMatt53.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 17:21
Quote:
robtheh
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
Is there no cap in the championship?

No, but there should be to stop them buying their way out of the championship yet again.

If only there was a way for Yorkshire to stop them.

Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

There is no love for a place like Bristol.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
robtheh
robtheh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 18:24
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
robtheh
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
Is there no cap in the championship?

No, but there should be to stop them buying their way out of the championship yet again.

If only there was a way for Yorkshire to stop them.

Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

There is no love for a place like Bristol.

Bet you're the life and soul of the party...

 
robtheh
robtheh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 18:28
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
robtheh
Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

As looooooong as Bris took? Don't know that much about the Championship to be honest I will bow to your (extensive) experience.

Looking forward to 2018/19 season, hope to see the West sides battling for something meaningful just like the old days....

Hahahaha! Fair point sir! And yes, look forward to it!

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 19:30
This sounds to me that the Premiership has been ring fenced for next season promoting two teams to make a top 14. Would br*zzl* have invested for next season without such a guarantee?



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 19:34
Quote:
CoochieCoo
This sounds to me that the Premiership has been ring fenced for next season promoting two teams to make a top 14. Would br*zzl* have invested for next season without such a guarantee?
No chance of that; and no chance that Brizz have been given any guarantees. Their guarantee is that they'll have a squad with no real excuses if they miss out on the top 6


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Big Dave
Big Dave (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 19:43
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
robtheh
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
Is there no cap in the championship?

No, but there should be to stop them buying their way out of the championship yet again.

If only there was a way for Yorkshire to stop them.

Lose the hate, feel the love.
Cos you know that if you went down, you'd not get back for a loooooong time.

There is no love for a place like Bristol.

Suburb on its metropolitan centre.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
11 August, 2017 19:54
They will destroy everyone in that league besides the fact that most of the others can't (or don't want to) come up to the Prem. They don't need any sort of guarantee. It will be a 40+ point average a game snorefest as it was for Irish and indeed Bris themselves the season before with a worse team.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 08:11
This will make the AP a more open league than before - no obvious candidate for the drop [assuming there is one] will give a few clubs the jitters and another club that could easily pinch points off any one of the top 4 making the playoff positions far less predictable

Good for the game at the top and great for local rugby rivalry

Also makes for a fascinating West Country 5 club mini-league

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 09:36
The west county has enough PL teams already, far better to have Yorkshire promoted to grow the game.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
robtheh
robtheh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 10:21
Quote:
OutsideBath
The west county has enough PL teams already, far better to have Yorkshire promoted to grow the game.

Are you Martin Johnson's ghostwriter?

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 11:47
Let's be brutally honest it is an amazing signing and one I am personally jealous of, but they still have to get up to prem, which I am sure they will, unless the superstar status gets to them, unlikely with Pat Lam at the helm. Let us not forget the same thing was said of the likes of Newcastle, Leeds etc when they fell out of the premier league in kiss ball.

My worry is the sort of money Steve Lansdown is throwing into Bris will destroy the championship and we are slowly becoming like the kiss ballers where the Championship there is commanding stupid transfer fees.

I think we are being hard on ourselves Burgess was purely a Mike Ford dream and we also did have one of the smallest squads in the league and boy did we pay for it the following season.

Our problems stem from when the game turned professional and as a club we turned our back on the wealth of youth talent in the South West, by not maintaing the youth structure we basically attempted to build an empire without solid foundations. Never underestimate e power of being home grown (Nathan Catt) is a perfect example, we allowed FB and his brother BB to leave although finally we have FB back, the perfect mix is home grown, grafters and a sprinkling of world class.

The old saying still rings true a team which fights for each other will always beat a team of individuals.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 12:29
I thought that Nathan Catt was from Bristol!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 15:58
"Burgess was purely a Mike Ford dream"

Was it? Based on what? I seem to recall a quote saying he was excited by the signing and had big plans but it wasn't where he'd have spent the money or words to that effect.

Any evidenced to back up your home grown assertion? At best of say recent champions have a sprinkling of home grown.

 
Bris nut
Bris nut (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 16:49
A lot of rhetoric/ bad mouthing on here from a club that went professional years before it was sanctioned

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 17:04
Quote:
Bris nut
A lot of rhetoric/ bad mouthing on here from a club that went professional years before it was sanctioned

Haven't you just added to it?

 
Bris nut
Bris nut (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 19:48
Hmm fair enough
Still pot kettle black comes to mind

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 20:07
Quote:
BathMatt53
I thought that Nathan Catt was from Bristol!


Yep. The Clevedon Wonderhorse.

 
gran
gran (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 20:16
I blame Brunel and his Bristol merchant paymasters. If they had routed the GWR main line direct to Paddington there would be no Bath let alone Bath rugby.
Whoa....it's only a joke.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 20:23
Haha, I think that Bladud and his pigs found Bath before Brunel!

 
Brisman
Brisman (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 21:01
Outside Bath,you're a thoroughly disagreeable individual aren't you? What's the basis of your hostility? My suspicion is that you are freightened that we will usurp you in the coming years. Your odious comments are quite frankly ridiculous.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2017 21:04 by Brisman.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 21:27
Please can we have some civility here. We are rugby (Union) and West Coauntry. this thread sounds more like Trumpy and Kimmy and taht is not what we want to aspire to surely!! Stop behaving like playground bullies and show some maturity and respect ....please.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 22:03
Quote:
Brisman
Outside Bath,you're a thoroughly disagreeable individual aren't you? What's the basis of your hostility? My suspicion is that you are freightened that we will usurp you in the coming years. Your odious comments are quite frankly ridiculous.

If you don't like my comments you can always stick to your own forum.

The basis for my hostility is mostly the Bristol "fans" I encountered at the Rec last season which I can only beat describe as football fans.

Will your team usurp Bath in the coming seasons? Given the money you are spending I would say that is highly likely, but that is no real concern of mine.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Brisman
Brisman (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
12 August, 2017 22:13
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Brisman
Outside Bath,you're a thoroughly disagreeable individual aren't you? What's the basis of your hostility? My suspicion is that you are freightened that we will usurp you in the coming years. Your odious comments are quite frankly ridiculous.

If you don't like my comments you can always stick to your own forum.

The basis for my hostility is mostly the Bristol "fans" I encountered at the Rec last season which I can only beat describe as football fans.

Will your team usurp Bath in the coming seasons? Given the money you are spending I would say that is highly likely, but that is no real concern of mine.
First of all I'm sorry to hear some of our fans conducted themselves in a poor manor, it's not something I'd condone at all. These are not the sort of people I want to be associated with my club, or our game for that matter. However, I feel this is a flimsy excuse at best for some pretty pathetic comments. Rant over, enjoy the coming season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2017 22:16 by Brisman.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 07:58
Quote:
Brisman
First of all I'm sorry to hear some of our fans conducted themselves in a poor manor.........

Hey! What is poor about our manor? winking smiley



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 09:06
I actually would be quite concerned that they'll merge Bristol and bath in order to create a Yorkshire team in a miss guided attempt to grow the game artificially.

 
robtheh
robtheh (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 09:52
Quote:
DanWiley
I actually would be quite concerned that they'll merge Bristol and bath in order to create a Yorkshire team in a miss guided attempt to grow the game artificially.

I'd obviously hope that that will never happen. Will be a bit concerning for the powers that be if my personal prediction of Sale for the drop this season happens.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 10:12
If there's support for a team, it will get and be successful naturally. Trying to engineer that support will produce a stale, sterile product and pull apart genuine teams in the process.

But I wouldn't be surprised if a few years down the line it is tried.

 
Devonport Boy
Devonport Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 11:05
We came perilously close to a merger in 2003. Remember the attempted hostile takeover by Bristol?

 
Brisman
Brisman (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 11:08
If I recall rightly a merger was proposed in 2003 when Malcolm Pearce stopped bankrolling us. The name would of been Wessex Warriors I think? Alas, we were relegated, you weren't, and thankfully it never happened. Fast forward all these years and with both our respective owners being men of significant means then I'm sure no one at the RFU would dare to propose it again. Besides, a Leicester/Wasps merger would be much more suitable!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 11:32
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.

*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.

 
Field marshall
Field marshall (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 14:20
Why would Bris drift? Without a money man, the financial viability of a club is quite reliant on the level of support and Bris has plenty. I can't see how bris would be more susceptible to failing than you would if the money men scarpered.
If Brucey packed up his toys and went home, Bris wouldn't have anything to gain from a merger at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/08/2017 14:22 by Field marshall.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 14:30
Quote:
DanWiley
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.
*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.

I can't see a merger being proposed again, it would be as popular as the Stade/Racing proposal last season and just wouldn't get the support of fans.

I personally can see BC walking away in the not too distant future as he must view the Bath rugby project as a failure given how successful he has been in business. Not sure where that would leave us, but merging with Bristol would be a non starter.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 14:53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.
*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.


I personally can see BC walking away in the not too distant future as he must view the Bath rugby project as a failure given how successful he has been in business. Not sure where that would leave us, but merging with Bristol would be a non starter.

Pure conjecture on your part, why is Bath a failure? Why would you walk away in the middle of the ground redevelopment? That would surely mean an additional loss. Why walk away from a side full of experienced exciting internationals and great coaches? Why walk away from the training facility that is Farleigh?


OB, I just feel sometimes you want Bath to fail and that relish any negative rumour, are you a professional pessimist?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 15:17
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.
*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.



I personally can see BC walking away in the not too distant future as he must view the Bath rugby project as a failure given how successful he has been in business. Not sure where that would leave us, but merging with Bristol would be a non starter.

Pure conjecture on your part, why is Bath a failure? Why would you walk away in the middle of the ground redevelopment? That would surely mean an additional loss. Why walk away from a side full of experienced exciting internationals and great coaches? Why walk away from the training facility that is Farleigh?


OB, I just feel sometimes you want Bath to fail and that relish any negative rumour, are you a professional pessimist?

Plain stupid to suggest I want Bath to fail. Went to every game bar the clash last season so that would be a bit daft if I wanted us to fail.

Success in sport = trophies.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 15:30
"level of support and Bris has plenty. "

Apologises, I don't know what your average attendance in the championship is? I would have guessed about 6-7k, that's not enough to gain promotion in any sort of state likely to stay up.

You need the money man to get you up and, initially, keep you up.

Without the possibility of promotion your attendence would dwindle from there.

From a bath point of view, if it's a choice between some of the club culture continuing to exist in a merged team and the club just not existing in a recognisable form, we'd pick the merger, no doubt.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 15:34
Success is surely achieving your goals rather than just cups OB? E.g. If London Irish or Worcester made top 4 this year I'm guessing they would consider that a successful season?

(Success for us would be Europe knock-out rounds and prem playoffs I would have thought?)

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 15:40
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.
*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.



I personally can see BC walking away in the not too distant future as he must view the Bath rugby project as a failure given how successful he has been in business. Not sure where that would leave us, but merging with Bristol would be a non starter.

Pure conjecture on your part, why is Bath a failure? Why would you walk away in the middle of the ground redevelopment? That would surely mean an additional loss. Why walk away from a side full of experienced exciting internationals and great coaches? Why walk away from the training facility that is Farleigh?


OB, I just feel sometimes you want Bath to fail and that relish any negative rumour, are you a professional pessimist?

Plain stupid to suggest I want Bath to fail. Went to every game bar the clash last season so that would be a bit daft if I wanted us to fail.

Success in sport = trophies.

Oh I see your not a pessemist, you're a masochist winking smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 15:54
Quote:
BathMatt53
Success is surely achieving your goals rather than just cups OB? E.g. If London Irish or Worcester made top 4 this year I'm guessing they would consider that a successful season?
(Success for us would be Europe knock-out rounds and prem playoffs I would have thought?)

understand where you're coming from, but I play sport to win so view anything less than first as a failure.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Brisman
Brisman (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 18:13
Quote:
DanWiley
Why wouldn't they dare propose it again? It only didn't happen once by a whisker. It would only take one of our money men, probably ours*, to get board and it would be on the cards I suspect.
*If Bristol's funds disappeared I suspect you'd just slowly drift, we might rebrand in order to pick up on a bit of the Bristol market. If bc went we'd be offering an established ap place and you'd be offering the money.
I doubt it, other than your AP place, there would be absolutely no benefit to Steve Lansdown or Bristol Sport what so ever. Where would the games be played? We already have a state of the art modern stadium, the redevelopment of which SL funded entirely from his own pocket. Would he be interested in playing half the games at the Rec? I sincerely doubt he would. Luckily, this is all theoretical.

 
Field marshall
Field marshall (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 19:47
Quote:
Apologises, I don't know what your average attendance in the championship is? I would have guessed about 6-7k, that's not enough to gain promotion in any sort of state likely to stay up.
The relevant figure is the prem attendances, and Bris were not one of the worse supported clubs by a fairly long way last season (avg 14K). It wasn't a coincidence that AP attendances went up so much last year. That's pretty telling considering we were getting humped most weeks. Better players and a more competitive team will bring it up even more.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 20:57
No, AP attendances would be irrelevant as your not in it. If you were don't kid yourself you can sustain the squad you'd need to get into and remain in the AP even on 13k without heavy investment.

Brisman, what about premiership shares? Further, I find it very hard to believe you are so dismissive of the thing that you've spent years trying to achieve (the AP place) then found near impossible to keep for even a year once you got it. Perhaps you would find a complete AP quality squad integrated to a level that is at least capable of staying there useful? Not to mention a further 10k+ fans IF you didn't screw that up as well.

As an aside, I would say that the games would obviously be played in Bris, relatively populations make that a fairly easy decision if you are going to have some form of combined team. Let's be honest, it solves a long term problem of Bath's (not in a way we'd like obviously, but doubtless it would be gone).

 
Field marshall
Field marshall (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
13 August, 2017 21:11
Quote:
No, AP attendances would be irrelevant as your not in it.
It matters not. We do not need to guess whether Bris has enough support; it is established that it does. We were comparing like for like, the point which was made was that if all of the money men disappeared then Bris would not be in a position any worse than you. Our 14K isn't miles for your 18K (which was skewed by the twickenham game anyway) That points very much still stands.

 
HamishMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
14 August, 2017 09:36
I suppose it depends why you support a team and what you seek from it OB. Personally I would love it if Bath won every single game they play and we walked the league each year but I have realised that I actually gain more pleasure from the style in which they play than the results all the time personally.

A few years back Bath set the standard for attacking rugby in Europe, let alone the Aviva Prem and despite us not necessarily winning anything I took a lot of personal pleasure from the exciting style of play we had for one or two seasons. We could win every game if we bought in a big bruising pack and kicked all our points to grind out wins but I wouldn't find much satisfaction in that tbh with you.

I am stupidly also an Arsenal supporter so maybe I do it to myself to always support teams that play their respective games beautifully but ultimately fall short of winning major titles...

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
14 August, 2017 18:46
"The point which was made was that if all of the money men disappeared then Bris would not be in a position any worse than you. "

Exactly! They can be taught. Bath would be royally screwed if we lost our money man. As would you. Either of us would be ripe for merger without their sugar daddy. That was my initial point. We however would get a huge pay out for being relegated, where as you would not.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
14 August, 2017 19:11
As the TV deals get better and the clubs are seemingly losing less (and in some cases making money) if the two existing money men left there would undoubtedly be another to take their place?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
14 August, 2017 20:53
Currently we're losing the order of a million a year. See you really confident that we'd find someone who is happy to spend £50 million plus on a stadium in order to maybe break even?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
15 August, 2017 06:51
How did clubs like Exeter fund Sandy Park? Looking at articles Tony Rowe says that it has been self funding (£15m) through the non-rugby activities as much as the rugby ones. Then there was a bond issue by the looks. Either way someone isn't going to just have to get their wallet out and pull out a £50m wad.

Maybe someone who knows the Chiefs can provide more info?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
15 August, 2017 08:11
So you think rec development would still happen if we didn't have someone with significant capitol (and you're probably right, connections are also important)?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
15 August, 2017 09:58
I will put my hands up and say that I really don't know enough about these sorts of stadium fund raising / banking things to bring anything of value to the discussion! I'm sure that there are lots of business men and women who support Bath who could make this sort of thing happen if it needed to (i.e. make a business case) whether cash was stumped up by an individual or not. People in the vaccuum cleaning sector for example?

 
MESSAGES->author
Robbinho (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
15 August, 2017 10:54
Interesting article about Piutau in the NZ Herald, touching on the pull of overseas contracts for players like him, Luatua and Fekitoa.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
22 August, 2017 13:59
My understanding of a self funding stadium is that the revenue from the stadium pays for the loan payments needed to build it.
Sponsorship (say a local vacuum company) and regular tenants paying rent (say a professional rugby club) provides not only the revenue but also the security on which the loan is made. This is why multi use stadiums including retail and where possible hotels are more affordable
I don't think for one minute Bruce will be paying £50 mill for our stadium. Rather he will support the project and so help improve the terms of the loans - providing a deposit and other (non personal) securities.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
22 August, 2017 15:08
Same question though, would it happen without someone with a lot of muscle behind them?

I'm not sure that a loss making rugby club actually does provide much in the way of rent or security. Do we go from our current position of paying next to no rent and pocketing all the Dyson money (and still losing money) to paying a significant amount of rent and using the Dyson sponsorship money to fund the stadium?

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
22 August, 2017 20:43
Dan
I suppose it depends on the structure Bruce decides on. This may have been announced - but has it ever been confirmed that the rugby club will own the new stadium?
Bruce may form 'Bath Rugby Property Co.'to develop the stadium and act as landlord to the club who will pay rent to play there. The rent would be an expense balanced by the ticket income, hospitality (if allowed), sponsorship and TV revenues. AT least rent is predictable - whereas player salaries are not!
The club could end up the winner if it's a Peppercorn rent. If not it could be interesting. I suspect the terms of the lease for using the Rec and tax will determine the final structures.
As ever I expect the accountants and lawyers to make more money on the deal than anyone else

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Charles Piutau ...
23 August, 2017 06:56
I'd doubt the club would own it when it really comes down to it. Given we only pay a peppercorn rent now any rent we do pay must either be a burden on the the club or so low it is of no interest to investors.

I expect the latter and what the club will provide is an excuse to build on some prime real estate. The fruits of that build will therefore not be seen by the club either.

I still say it isn't going to happen without a big resource behind it and if either our, or Bristol's, financial backers pulled out that club would be in big trouble. Which is where this started.


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