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MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:05
Quote:
hasta
Chron
More detail about Banners - some distance between club and player it seems. Positive sounds about club and Khan.

Time for Tarquin to get his act together and get Banners and Khan contract extensions signed then.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:26
If the report is accurate a two (not one) year deal on the same terms seems reasonable given his age, even if salaries have gone up? But then I know precisely zero about the going rate in the current market. I guess he looks at other players who are getting their £22k for every England match (not a bad sum for young Ewels this weekend) and is miles behind.

Positive news about Kahn and great news about Roko.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/11/2017 09:31 by BathMatt53.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:27
This is deeply, deeply troubling.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:29
Obviously the Club have to be realistic but on the face of its that does appear to be a rather rigid stance & in no way make him feel valued. He may have lost pace but makes up for it with much needed physicality which few other backs can match. He needs to be enticed to stay even if it costs a few quid.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:46
I reckon Banners is worth a 2 year deal for what he brings to the club; loyalty, leadership, continuity, on top of his value as a player, which is still high.

Give him 2 years!

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 09:55
A lot of speculation, here. Given that we're still early in the negotiating process/season, I'd expect both Banners and Kahn to stay.

The better news is that Roko is contracted until 2020. Now he's one we definitely can't be without, so well done the management for securing his services for the long term.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:24
Quote:
woodpecker
I reckon Banners is worth a 2 year deal for what he brings to the club; loyalty, leadership, continuity, on top of his value as a player, which is still high.
Give him 2 years!

That's what we have offered him according to the Chron.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:26
You really can't afford to let the few players that bleed the colours of their club to leave. Banners is a leader, understands what it means to be a part of the Bath family and has great experience.

Obviously his pace isn't what it was and he won't get any quicker, but he has built some guile to his game as older players tend to.

Others have mentioned the Sarries and Exeter bonds - just the thing the great Bath teams of the past had, and so too the great Tigers teams.

Players like Banners are worth so, so much more than just what they might do on the pitch, and only a fool can't see that.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:31
I am fairly positive that the club are aware of Banners worth in the current financially driven climate, and know his worth to the side/squad both on an experience and performance basis. No doubt this includes the abilities Todd and his team want to see in their players and play plan patterns.

The club has shown that they want to keep him and he has a chance to further show his worth and make him indispensable by his efforts on and off the field.

You could argue that if Banners truly doesn't want to leave Bath, he has been offered a chance to stay and loyalty works both ways.

We do need Banners at present and I hope he stays, and that he will be totally committed. But I don't want anyone he is just going through the motions and is or feels disgruntled.

Roko is obviously worth his weight in gold to the side, as is Kahn. Both have brought a top class edge to the side and offer a real threat by their play. Can we truly (without sentimentality) say that about Banners? IMO we have 'carried' one or two guys in the past who were regrettably not up to Prem standard. If we want to succeed we have got to ensure all players in the squad are capable of playing at the top level. Banners is at present but he has lost is 'edge' and speed and he now has a chance to show he can continue to add to the BB&W cause.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:43
Apologies if this is already in this thread somewhere, but Malco on Shedweb has mentioned the follow chain of rumours:

Banahan > Gloucester
Trinder > Bath
Joseph > Saracens

Supposedly Saracens areally targeting JJ at all costs.

Which will probably mean:

Watson > Saracens (the following season)

[www.rugb.co.uk]

Obviously highly unlikely, but worrying all the same!



Adopted Player 18-19: Anthony Perenise
Adopted Player 17-18 & 16-17: Dave Attwood
Adopted Player 15-16: Matt Garvey

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:46
Can totally understand Joseph wanting to go to Sarries. We don't really play in a way that brings out the attacking talent of the backs. They could do with a top class 13 too. If they can afford him....



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:53
Can understand any of our players wanting to leave for Sarries as their career is short and they want to win trophies.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:54
Trinder is a real talent with vision and pace, although a little injury prone. Personally I think could be good for him and us, and a good swap for Banners if all true!

JJ would be a huge loss and if Sarries rumour true, I suppose a long term replacement for Barrett. (I thought JJ was signed on/contracted until 2019!) Like Auterac, we must do our utmost to hang onto JJ.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:54
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
I reckon Banners is worth a 2 year deal for what he brings to the club; loyalty, leadership, continuity, on top of his value as a player, which is still high.
Give him 2 years!

That's what we have offered him according to the Chron.

Aaah, perhaps I should have read it before posting my opinion..

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 10:56
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Trinder is a real talent with vision and pace, although a little injury prone. Personally I think could be good for him and us, and a good swap for Banners if all true!
JJ would be a huge loss and if Sarries rumour true, I suppose a long term replacement for Barrett. (I thought JJ was signed on/contracted until 2019!) Like Auterac, we must do our utmost to hang onto JJ.

He is contracted till 2019, but we all know money talks these days.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:01
If JJ goes that way, then why not go for Tomkins who is younger, less injury prone and a better player than Trinder?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:02
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Trinder is a real talent with vision and pace, although a little injury prone. Personally I think could be good for him and us, and a good swap for Banners if all true!
JJ would be a huge loss and if Sarries rumour true, I suppose a long term replacement for Barrett. (I thought JJ was signed on/contracted until 2019!) Like Auterac, we must do our utmost to hang onto JJ.

Barrett and JJ play in different positions and couldn't be much different in playing style either? So much for Sarries whining about being able to keep hold of their players because of rising costs if this is true!

'A little injury prone' is a bit of an understatement for Trinder no? The Telegraph has linked him with Quins IIRC.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:08
We haven't got space in the treatment room for Trinder so no thanks.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:11
Barritt and JJ are both defensive leaders. Given Lozowski and Farrell have both signed contract extensions, they might want to change to a Faz/Loz/JJ midfield.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:28
Quote:
BathSalmon
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Trinder is a real talent with vision and pace, although a little injury prone. Personally I think could be good for him and us, and a good swap for Banners if all true!
JJ would be a huge loss and if Sarries rumour true, I suppose a long term replacement for Barrett. (I thought JJ was signed on/contracted until 2019!) Like Auterac, we must do our utmost to hang onto JJ.

He is contracted till 2019, but we all know money talks these days.

Also the club's main focus now is to break even so selling the best players will help achieve this.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:30
You repeat that constantly OB, but there is zero evidence for it.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:39
Quote:
hasta
You repeat that constantly OB, but there is zero evidence for it.

The club has indicated its desire to break even a number of times, can't be bothered to find the last article but it's in the Chron somewhere.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 11:45
I think that they wanted to break even by increasing revenue rather than decreasing spending? After all, it was Bruce who pushed for the higher cap?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 12:02
There's a teeny, tiny, almost imperceptible difference between 'desire to break even' and 'main focus'.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 12:12
Quote:
hasta
There's a teeny, tiny, almost imperceptible difference between 'desire to break even' and 'main focus'.

Actions give the impression it's now the main focus.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 12:22
OB deliberate trolling without evidence again. Ignore.

For all those expecting us to simply crack open the cheque book for new stars and to keep hold of our established ones - sadly we have the thing called the salary cap. Rumours (only) over the last few years aimed at us means we have to be demonstrably squeaky clean now and that's why splashing out just simply cannot happen. Ultimately, all that's happened is that wages have expanded to fill the gap and we're in the same, but costlier position as we were when it was circa £4m. I find it ironic that Bruce and McCall were the biggest proponents of increasing the cap but are now the ones feeling the impact of higher per player wages - they helped make this bed.

One final warning about Malco rumours, he's effectively paid by agents (pretty sure he said this recently) to spread information. Some of this information will be correct and some will be used by agents to start rumours and influence deals (see Romano - was meant to be heading to us, then signs on in NZ, I'm assuming for a higher wage). Therefore, some of the rumours will pay off, others won't. I'm assuming Malco only passes on the info and doesn't know if it's true or not - not trying to sully his name. Malco - feel free to correct me if any of this is not the case.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 12:29
There is always something else to consider when talking Salary Cap freezes and lack of money to go and bring in players.

If we were one of the 2 clubs in 2014-15 found over the cap at the time and we cut a deal with the RFU to avoid a points reduction.

Maybe we have been sanctioned financially in someway behind closed doors, such as: working to a lower salary cap level for a few years (I. e. Can only spend up to 80% of the cap).

Could explain the lack of signings, the need to "balance the books" and hard negotiating with current squad members.

Look as Sarries, they are hardly splashing the cash. Bringing in Williams was offset by losing Ashton.

Just a thought.



Adopted Player 18-19: Anthony Perenise
Adopted Player 17-18 & 16-17: Dave Attwood
Adopted Player 15-16: Matt Garvey

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 12:52
Sarries have a load of stars in the team and more importantly have re-signed their young players presumably on improved contracts so that's where their increase will have gone.

I actually do think that we have a lot of players who I suspect would be paid handsomely, Charteris, Burns, Priestland, Louw, Watson, JJ, Banners, Henry Thomas, Attwood, TF, Kahn, Tapuai, Perenise, Garvey, Underhill. It doesn't take long to get to the cap once those guys have been paid, even allowing for a couple of Marquees would be my guess (certainly if the £3-400k for each of the fly halves alone is accurate).

 
nick holder
nick holder (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:21
Interesting that Todd has said the club are interested in retaining both Banners and Khan, bit had said nothing ref Auterac. Telling I think?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:24
Quote:
nick holder
Interesting that Todd has said the club are interested in retaining both Banners and Khan, bit had said nothing ref Auterac. Telling I think?

If the real reason for Auterac leaving is his desire to live in London, then no point trying to keep him.

Not sure offering Banners the same money is a sign the club really want to keep him.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:34
I dotn think you could expect a pay rise at the age of 31 as a rugby player

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:35
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:36
Quote:
nick holder
Interesting that Todd has said the club are interested in retaining both Banners and Khan, bit had said nothing ref Auterac. Telling I think?

That's a misquote. He only talks about Banners specifically and then the rest is down to Daniel Evans at the Chron:

Director of rugby Todd Blackadder said: "We've put a contract offer out there and it will be Banners' decision whether he stays or not."

.....

Negotiations are ongoing with a number of players at Bath whose contracts are in their final year.

.....

Kahn Fotuali'i is keen to stay and the club appear keen to keep him.


So, Auterac could well be within the 'number of players' and there was nothing mentioned about kahn by Todd.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 15:59
"Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?"

From what I understand 5 years ago he took a pay cut, possibly to secure a 5 year deal. I'm assuming his contract prior to that was signed at about 23? So basically he's being offered less than he was being paid at 23.

Taking into account the massive wage inflation that's happened, due to cap raises, in that period, I think it could be a little low.

On the other hand, he's worth to us what he's worth to us. He'll be a 31 year old winger. He probably is worth less that a 23 year old international (I think he was a regular international at 23 and scoring trys?)

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:04
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

Just to clear up a couple of things.

Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.

You may recall that Banahan is coming out of a five year contract. At the time it was negotiated the deal was that he could have a long contract at a relatively low annual rate.

Bath have offered two years at the same low rate. Gloucester have offered him three years for a lot more.

I am still in touch with a couple of agents who are friends. I no longer work with them. My information has come from a friend who works for Gloucester. He tells me that Gloucester have a pre-contract agreement with Banahan. He is unable to sign a contract until January.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/11/2017 16:06 by malco.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:10
Doesn't your friend mind you releasing (presumably confidential) information on a fans forum?

One question that I do have is how he can have a pre-contract arrangement when he is not able to enter contract talks until January? I assume that it must be a verbal 'ok if he doesn't stay at Bath then your offer looks good' type discussion between his agent and Glos?

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:14
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

Just to clear up a couple of things.

Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.

You may recall that Banahan is coming out of a five year contract. At the time it was negotiated the deal was that he could have a long contract at a relatively low annual rate.

Bath have offered two years at the same low rate. Gloucester have offered him three years for a lot more.

I am still in touch with a couple of agents who are friends. I no longer work with them. My information has come from a friend who works for Gloucester. He tells me that Gloucester have a pre-contract agreement with Banahan. He is unable to sign a contract until January.

Have there been any noises about who we might replace Banahan with?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:21
Could do worse than Santiago Cordero who is supposedly on the radar of a couple of Prem clubs.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:48
Quote:
Danchinho
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

Just to clear up a couple of things.

Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.

You may recall that Banahan is coming out of a five year contract. At the time it was negotiated the deal was that he could have a long contract at a relatively low annual rate.

Bath have offered two years at the same low rate. Gloucester have offered him three years for a lot more.

I am still in touch with a couple of agents who are friends. I no longer work with them. My information has come from a friend who works for Gloucester. He tells me that Gloucester have a pre-contract agreement with Banahan. He is unable to sign a contract until January.

Have there been any noises about who we might replace Banahan with?

A pre-contract agreement is normally made between the buying club and the player's agent, because the club is not permitted to approach a player in contract. Of course, the agent would not act without the agreement of the player. There have been no noises about a replacement for the simple reason that Blackadder wants to keep Banahan and therefore has not planned to replace him. If/when it becomes clear that Banahan is leaving the club will then start looking for a replacement.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 16:49
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

Just to clear up a couple of things.

Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.

You may recall that Banahan is coming out of a five year contract. At the time it was negotiated the deal was that he could have a long contract at a relatively low annual rate.

Bath have offered two years at the same low rate. Gloucester have offered him three years for a lot more.

I am still in touch with a couple of agents who are friends. I no longer work with them. My information has come from a friend who works for Gloucester. He tells me that Gloucester have a pre-contract agreement with Banahan. He is unable to sign a contract until January.

SO, if I was Banahan I would sign for Gloucester, as long as I didnt have to live there, im sure his BB&W veins will be fine

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 18:38
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why would you pay someone more whose performances are not what they were 2 seasons ago? If he has been offered en extension to his existing contract at the same pay rate, that cannot be bad. Or have I got it wrong?

Just to clear up a couple of things.

Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.

You may recall that Banahan is coming out of a five year contract. At the time it was negotiated the deal was that he could have a long contract at a relatively low annual rate.

Bath have offered two years at the same low rate. Gloucester have offered him three years for a lot more.

I am still in touch with a couple of agents who are friends. I no longer work with them. My information has come from a friend who works for Gloucester. He tells me that Gloucester have a pre-contract agreement with Banahan. He is unable to sign a contract until January.

SO, if I was Banahan I would sign for Gloucester, as long as I didnt have to live there, im sure his BB&W veins will be fine

If the pay was significantly higher & for an extra year I would probably travel to Gloucester rather than uproot the family. It would depend how much more was on offer. It would take a reasonable increase to lure me away but there could be a sense of being undervalued. WE NEED TO KEEP HIM!

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 18:58
In an interview published on the BBC web site TB indicated we can't afford to compete with other clubs to keep Banners.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
supermarinematt
supermarinematt (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 19:28
If Auterac wants to be in London, then not much you can do. Banners, he's a leader, often been there to drag the team along in games when we have needed it BUT he's not all that quick any longer and he's not a center. We should be developing some of the younger wingers. JJ ... can't lose him, far too valuable but I could understand if he wanted to leave for Sarries. He's in his prime and they are winning, as much as it pains me, Bath are 4th to 6th at best in league for the foreseeable unless something changes

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 20:26
Quote:
OutsideBath
In an interview published on the BBC web site TB indicated we can't afford to compete with other clubs to keep Banners.

As someone who is highly critical of the clubs signings OB perhaps that explains why?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 21:04
Quote:
OutsideBath
In an interview published on the BBC web site TB indicated we can't afford to compete with other clubs to keep Banners.

Well I guess if Glos want to break the bank for him then that's up to them - a 3 year contract on significantly more - it sounds like a convincing reason to go and see out your career in a way that makes your family comfortable. That 3rd year is obviously a massive draw, its not like he would be offered anything too attractive at the age of 34.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 21:55
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
hasta
You repeat that constantly OB, but there is zero evidence for it.

The club has indicated its desire to break even a number of times, can't be bothered to find the last article but it's in the Chron somewhere.

[www.theguardian.com]

Not that Exeter are oblivious to the bottom line. Far from it. They make a modest profit, with turnover set to increase in this financial year to around £19m. Planning permission is awaited for a £25m hotel beside the ground with a further £35m south stand development, incorporating a 1,000 seater auditorium, in the pipeline. ďIíve always approached Exeter with a commercial view,Ē stresses Rowe. ĒIf we canít make money why are we doing it? Iím a bit old-fashioned, I donít like discount. If you give someone 20% off, theyíll want the same next time.Ē Customer satisfaction, he insists, is good. ďMore and more people are saying: ĎI used to watch the round ball game but I enjoy it more here.íĒ



Hasn't done them any harm breaking even?

 
grunter
grunter (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 22:15
As I stated many moons ago, Banahan to Glaws is a done deal. Trinder will be going nowhere and will sign a new contract. Auterac next?

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 22:37
I have a team photo poster pinned up in my garage from the 07-08 season, the sort you got in the first home game programme. Banners is the only face on it still at the club.

I think he has been relatively fortunate with injury over his career so far, many pros don't get his longevity.

To get another 2 years on top of 5 at Bath would cement his place as a club legend, possibly leading to a future career behind the scenes if that appealed to him.

Going to Glos seems a knee jerk reaction and at the end of that contract it could leave him at a bit of loose end. It depends, I reckon, on what he has planned after retiring and whether he needs to be around Bath Rugby.

There is a lot more post rugby career planning these days so it wouldn't surprise me if he has something else lined up, perhaps Malco knows.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 22:42
Quote:
grunter
As I stated many moons ago, Banahan to Glaws is a done deal. Trinder will be going nowhere and will sign a new contract. Auterac next?

A pre-contract agreement is NOT a done deal though, as stated above its an agreement with the agent. It may become a done deal but isn't presently.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 22:53
Quote:
grunter
As I stated many moons ago, Banahan to Glaws is a done deal. Trinder will be going nowhere and will sign a new contract. Auterac next?

Did you?? Months ago?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
22 November, 2017 23:10
If the time limit from the club has passed for Banners to resign, he must of decided, as have the club by not increasing their offer, he is off.

That being the case lets wish him well with our thanks, and look for his replacement.

As I said, loyalty goes both ways and as is his choice, needing to support his family, he must do the best for himself. I can appreciate his motives but Bath Rugby have to look and plan for the future which, sadly, appears not to include our longest serving professional.

Lets hope this loosens up some cash to ensure Auterac stays and mean we could renegotiate JJ's deal to help keep him. Now they are the future of Bath Rugby!!!!

 
BB&W 1865
BB&W 1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 06:44
Iím sure many will disagree, but Iíve felt for some time that Todd is a good coach but his skills with new signings and renegotiations are below where we need them to be to move forward.

Since he arrived weíve signed very few real quality players, more cost offs and rejects on short term deals and often with a direct historic link with one of our coaches which indicates a lack of any scouting network.

On renewals, it appears we are behind other clubs on renewing key talent and seem to be at significant risk of losing key players because of it. Further, outing Banners for not resigning on the same money is poor man management and significantly increases the risk of him actually ultimately leaving.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 07:08
Quote:
malco
Blackadder has said that he wants to keep Banahan. The negotiations are done by the management team, not the coaching team. Blackadder has no say over how much money Banahan gets offered or what contract length.


We have no reason to disbelieve the above so it might clarify the negotiations and renegotiations part.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 07:15
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
In an interview published on the BBC web site TB indicated we can't afford to compete with other clubs to keep Banners.

As someone who is highly critical of the clubs signings OB perhaps that explains why?

Now that's TB has indicated we have basically blown the budget I am more likely to believe it as he comes across as an honest guy.

Probably not a great idea to be so honest though as it lets other clubs know that all our players are up for grabs given we have no money available to stop them leaving.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 07:31
I don't think that's true OB. This seasons budget has been spent but it doesn't mean that we can't retain people unless their salary really has gone through the roof?

BB&W 1865 its not only us, Northampton with Picamoles and now North, Glos with Moriarty, Beale at Wasps, Charles Piutau with Ulster, Tigers with Williams. Players (understandably) get their heads turned if someone is willing to throw cash at them, whether that's just salary or also international money. I doubt that Hipkiss, Moody etc came to us because of a love for Bath? Its the same in most walks of life.

In relation to the signings, well it sounds like their hands have been tied by previous contract agreements, the pot is empty and the well is dry. Seems harsh to blame Todd for that especially if the above is true and its not even the coaches who negotiate. The management team have something to answer for though although unfortunate situations like high-earning Attwood and Thomas being off for a year doesn't help things.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 07:41
I'd be quite surprised if it is the coaches who actually negotiate, it's not like that's an essential part of their skill set.

"In relation to the signings, well it sounds like their hands have been tied by previous contract agreements, the pot is empty and the well is dry"

I think it's worth remembering that a contract we offer Matt, as much as any other, will be one of those previous contract agreements in a year or so, possibly even later this year with respect to Auterac or Kharn.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 08:00
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
grunter
As I stated many moons ago, Banahan to Glaws is a done deal. Trinder will be going nowhere and will sign a new contract. Auterac next?

A pre-contract agreement is NOT a done deal though, as stated above its an agreement with the agent. It may become a done deal but isn't presently.


Eastmond thought a pre-contract was a done deal!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 09:10
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
grunter
As I stated many moons ago, Banahan to Glaws is a done deal. Trinder will be going nowhere and will sign a new contract. Auterac next?

A pre-contract agreement is NOT a done deal though, as stated above its an agreement with the agent. It may become a done deal but isn't presently.


Eastmond thought a pre-contract was a done deal!

Was that actually a pre-contract of a verbal arrangement? Did we buy him out of it like the Genia situation

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 09:32
I think the term pre-contract was used, whether pre-contract has a firm definition is another thing.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 09:43
Doubt it matters what, if anything, Glos have already agreed with Banners, we apparently just don't have the budget to keep him. If the budget is that tight I guess a player of lesser standing will be brought in to make up the numbers.

TB must be pretty fed up that he can't improve the team and indeed seems more likely to lose squad members.

Pretty disappointed in Banners leaving for Glos of all teams. Could only be worse if it was Bristol.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
FourSticks (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 09:49
Quote:
DanWiley
I think the term pre-contract was used, whether pre-contract has a firm definition is another thing.

It was rather more than a pre-contract agreement.

Eastmond renews

 
BB&W 1865
BB&W 1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 10:01
Quote:
OutsideBath
Doubt it matters what, if anything, Glos have already agreed with Banners, we apparently just don't have the budget to keep him. If the budget is that tight I guess a player of lesser standing will be brought in to make up the numbers.
TB must be pretty fed up that he can't improve the team and indeed seems more likely to lose squad members.

Pretty disappointed in Banners leaving for Glos of all teams. Could only be worse if it was Bristol.

Any idea why we donít have the budget?

Are we now spending under the cap? Difficult to see how Glaws can offer such a significant uplift, which Iím sure it would have to be, to make Banners leave?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 10:40
Probably the thing Banners wants most is a longer contract. I think I would.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
23 November, 2017 10:46
Glaws have have quite a few ins and outs recently including May and soon be Moriarty. Those two must free up a few quid even with Williams coming in (Hook out)

 
wilshd
wilshd (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
24 November, 2017 07:16
Eastmond signed a heads of agreement which basically is an agreement on the general terms of a contract with the remainder to be sorted at a later date.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
24 November, 2017 07:33
Right, so a Heads of Agreement (Heads of Terms) is non-binding arrangement then. Banners couldn't have signed anything surely as he isn't allowed to negotiate. If there is anything it must be verbal only at this stage?

As BoB says above, the 3rd year offered is massive - after all any contract that he would have to renegotiate then would presumably be a massive drop on what he is being offered now even if you ignore the first two years. He could make a few quid staying and keeping the testimonial year though I guess.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
24 November, 2017 08:38
Quote:
BathMatt53
Right, so a Heads of Agreement (Heads of Terms) is non-binding arrangement then. Banners couldn't have signed anything surely as he isn't allowed to negotiate. If there is anything it must be verbal only at this stage?

Not strictly true - any agreement can be legally enforceable if it is deemed it is a contract. In legal terms there must be clear evidence of offer, acceptance and what is called consideration.

A verbal contract can be equally enforceable though clearly it may be more difficult to evidence it fulfilled the requirements to be a contract

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
24 November, 2017 09:32
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
BathMatt53
Right, so a Heads of Agreement (Heads of Terms) is non-binding arrangement then. Banners couldn't have signed anything surely as he isn't allowed to negotiate. If there is anything it must be verbal only at this stage?

Not strictly true - any agreement can be legally enforceable if it is deemed it is a contract. In legal terms there must be clear evidence of offer, acceptance and what is called consideration.

A verbal contract can be equally enforceable though clearly it may be more difficult to evidence it fulfilled the requirements to be a contract

How can it be enforceable if they can't talk to him until Jan? The only way that they could try and enforce it is by saying that they broke premiership rules?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 06:42
Maybe the upward trend at Glos has also persuaded Banners that Glos is a better place to be than Bath and not just the money?

They seem to be likely top 4 now.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 06:55
Quote:
OutsideBath
Maybe the upward trend at Glos has also persuaded Banners that Glos is a better place to be than Bath and not just the money?
They seem to be likely top 4 now.

Too early to say that but that was another impressive win & they will join us & most of the rest of the league fighting for 4th, 5th & 6th place. The competition is fierce which is great for the game but we need to start scoring tries if we are going to be in the mix.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 07:48
Newcastle have also had a catastrophic decline in the last few games, they looked clueless last night against Glos strong defence. Glos made 230-odd tackles.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 09:37
Quote:
BathMatt53
Newcastle have also had a catastrophic decline in the last few games, they looked clueless last night against Glos strong defence. Glos made 230-odd tackles.

Sounds familiar, I wonder if they will end up with the same injury list we did as a result?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 10:59
Started watching the game, but turned it off as soon as Glos got on top.

Defensively they were pretty impressive and must have been pretty good going forward to get a TBP.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Biddy
Biddy (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 21:05
Confirmation tonight Auterac has signed for Quins - definite

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 21:17
Quote:
Biddy
Confirmation tonight Auterac has signed for Quins - definite

No he hasnít.

And no itís not.

In case that you have forgotten..heís not allowed to.

 
Biddy
Biddy (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 22:27
Ok - but he will sign as soon as he is legally able to- he is gone itís agreed.

Same situation with Banners - but he is going up the M5.

Those are in effect done deals but what is worrying for me is there seems to be very few rumours about new signing for us!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
25 November, 2017 23:06
Quote:
Biddy
Ok - but he will sign as soon as he is legally able to- he is gone itís agreed.
Same situation with Banners - but he is going up the M5.

Those are in effect done deals but what is worrying for me is there seems to be very few rumours about new signing for us!

Problem is no-one will believe you! Remember this:

Quote:
Biddy
Looks like a few trips to Toulouse next season!

Can you provide confirmation?

 
grunter
grunter (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
26 November, 2017 11:51
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
BathMatt53
Newcastle have also had a catastrophic decline in the last few games, they looked clueless last night against Glos strong defence. Glos made 230-odd tackles.

Sounds familiar, I wonder if they will end up with the same injury list we did as a result?

The injury list is a long one:- Balmain, Denton, Gallarza, Marshall, Morgan, Moriarty, Rowan, Ruskin, Sharples, Trinder, Williams and Woodward

 
grunter
grunter (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
26 November, 2017 11:55
Quote:
OutsideBath
Started watching the game, but turned it off as soon as Glos got on top.
Defensively they were pretty impressive and must have been pretty good going forward to get a TBP.

OutsideBath, you sound like a one-eyed rugby supporter. I support Glaws but I'll always enjoy watching good rugby, whoever it is, even Bath!(Sm6)

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
26 November, 2017 18:39
Rugby paper says we're signing an Argentinian prop

 
Knipm
Knipm (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 19:40
Tapuai to Quins apparently... Real shame.

Even if it's not Quins, i'm pretty sure he's going. Lose Tapuai and Banahan and we literally only have 2 centres left in Clark and Joseph. If the Joseph to Sarries rumours are true then... Gah.

 
MESSAGES->author
Widcombe Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 20:16
Nooooo!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 20:23
I can't help but feel that it would mean we'd -have- to do something about our centres.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 20:29
If true I'd wonder what's so wrong at Bath that nobody wants to stay!



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 21:50
Gents, click on Knipm's username, it being his second post I suspect it might be an alter ego!

I could be wrong of course, but there is no confirmation I can find.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 21:56
I will believe all of these when I see them. I think that all 3 will be with us next year and that its agent speak (i.e. garbage) at the moment in relation to Tapuai and Joseph.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 23:04
Someone else was mentioning Tapuai leaving i think.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 23:15
There was a time when everyone was joining us. Now it seems the only highly rated players staying with us either have a home here or are being offered big money to be away for much of the year playing for their country.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 23:27
Yeah, it seems like forever ago we signed the most highly rated, young, English-qualified back rower... Must have been, what, 2013?

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
28 November, 2017 23:57
Quote:
hasta
Yeah, it seems like forever ago we signed the most highly rated, young, English-qualified back rower... Must have been, what, 2013?

We signed Billy Vunipola? I didn't realise.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Knipm
Knipm (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 08:13
Quote:
shipwrecked
Gents, click on Knipm's username, it being his second post I suspect it might be an alter ego!
I could be wrong of course, but there is no confirmation I can find.

I canít help but feel if I had the time to be someoneís alter ego my first posts would be something more exciting than stating dismay about Banahan/ loss of passionate players and stating Iíd heard a rumour about Tapuai, which I believe is now firmer though by no means public/ official. As with all of this thread at this point, what Iíve heard could of course be agent speak.

Ironically, the last time I had a username it was on Ere, with a long forgotten email, and in one of my very few posts I said Northwick and Barkley would be leaving, albeit saying Borthwick to Gloucester, and got torn to shreds! A 3rd and final post was probably a similar defence to this!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/11/2017 08:15 by Knipm.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 08:21
Quote:
Knipm
Quote:
shipwrecked
Gents, click on Knipm's username, it being his second post I suspect it might be an alter ego!
I could be wrong of course, but there is no confirmation I can find.

I canít help but feel if I had the time to be someoneís alter ego my first posts would be something more exciting than stating dismay about Banahan/ loss of passionate players and stating Iíd heard a rumour about Tapuai, which I believe is now firmer though by no means public/ official. As with all of this thread at this point, what Iíve heard could of course be agent speak.

Ironically, the last time I had a username it was on Ere, with a long forgotten email, and in one of my very few posts I said Northwick and Barkley would be leaving, albeit saying Borthwick to Gloucester, and got torn to shreds! A 3rd and final post was probably a similar defence to this!

Apologies now you have clarified the situation, problem is that on this board we do seem to get speculation, I tend to be suspicious of news until it is substantiated elsewhere, particularly when it's mid season.

I tend to be wary of rumours unless the poster has a bit of history so sorry about that. I sincerely hope you are wrong though.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 09:29
If so many are leaving maybe Bath isn't a very happy place?

Good job we got rid of the disruptive head coach who'd lost the dressing room - otherwise we wouldn't have a club.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/11/2017 09:30 by fat lock.

 
Knipm
Knipm (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 10:12
Quote:
shipwrecked
I sincerely hope you are wrong though.

No worries. Me too!

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 10:29
Tapuai leaving would seem to me to be a potential disaster. We are short of centres at the moment by at least 2 players. So for our preferred starting 12 to be rumoured to leave with no news of a replacement is troubling. As some have already mentioned are players becoming unhappy at Bath for some reason?

Don't suppose anyone has heard of any signings coming our way excluding Paz?

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 10:35
Let's not blow this out of proportion. Banners is rumoured to be off, not because he's unhappy, but because of a difference in opinion in contracts terms.

Auterac appears to want to move back to London, again nothing to suggest he's unhappy at Bath Rugby.

Tapuai - we know nothing about the reasons, even speculation.

As for players coming in I've not heard of any, but I'm happy with Todd's signings so far, all have been very good additions (Grant, Taps, Fruean, Philips, Andrews, Charles etc).

I have no doubt we will replace with quality and we would not let any leave without suitable cover.



Adopted Player 18-19: Anthony Perenise
Adopted Player 17-18 & 16-17: Dave Attwood
Adopted Player 15-16: Matt Garvey

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 10:40
Quote:
Knipm
Quote:
shipwrecked
Gents, click on Knipm's username, it being his second post I suspect it might be an alter ego!
I could be wrong of course, but there is no confirmation I can find.



Ironically, the last time I had a username it was on Ere, with a long forgotten email, and in one of my very few posts I said Northwick and Barkley would be leaving, albeit saying Borthwick to Gloucester, and got torn to shreds! A 3rd and final post was probably a similar defence to this!

Not Dave Northwick was it? Always wondered what happened to him?

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 10:59
Wow, a grant total of three players potentially off and people jump to conclusions about the club not being in a good place.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 11:04
Quote:
ballsout
Wow, a grant total of three players potentially off and people jump to conclusions about the club not being in a good place.

Is Grant off as well then?? winking smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Auterac Contract
29 November, 2017 13:02
Quote:
BathSalmon
Let's not blow this out of proportion. Banners is rumoured to be off, not because he's unhappy, but because of a difference in opinion in contracts terms.
Auterac appears to want to move back to London, again nothing to suggest he's unhappy at Bath Rugby.

Tapuai - we know nothing about the reasons, even speculation.
Agreed, I'd also point out that Tap.s signed at a time when we had no centres at all, and he would have had us over a barrel during contract negotiations. I wouldn't be surprised if we are paying him more than his "worth" and seeking to correct that.
He doesn't owe Bath anything, and Bath don't owe him anything; consequently, I'd be quite sanguine if he chose to leave for a larger wage elsewhere. He isn't an academy product who "owes" us for his development (ala Clark). He isn't a local lad returning to the club he supported as a kid (ala Burns). He didn't come over as a sicknote looking to prove he could make it (ala Freuan). We didn't pluck him from obscurity to give him a chance to prove himself (ala Brew).
He was an established player who came for a contracted length of time and a contracted salary. If, at the end of the contract he can earn more money elsewhere, then so be it - IMO that's better all round than paying over the odds in a salary capped world.

Of course, my preference is for him to stay, he's a good player who's 1st= choice starter, who now knows those around him, and I've ever been a fan of continuity where possible.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

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