rugbyunion
Latest News:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League


Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2
 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
12 November, 2017 10:33
Thanks to those who helped me out with linky things. I'm not technically adept.

p.s. Very amused at being called a brat! Actually quite flattered.........!

I'd say not a bad start to the season for England. Not sure what Slade would have thought of Farrell having argued his way onto the sidelines by being a waterboy and thus being able to shout instructions across on occasion.

 
reg41
reg41 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
12 November, 2017 12:37
No reported injuries to any of our away players of any nationality, hope that continues, think we have had our fair share in the recent past.

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 13:18
Quote:
annie blackthorn
I'd say not a bad start to the season for England. Not sure what Slade would have thought of Farrell having argued his way onto the sidelines by being a waterboy and thus being able to shout instructions across on occasion.

I couldn't understand that either. Farrell shouldn't have been anywhere near the pitch shouting instructions, no other rested/dropped player has ever done it with the England team before (IIRC), it just smacks of the golden-boy being indulged because the spotlight isn't on him for once. Slade didn't play well but nor has Farrell on many occasions in the last 5 years and he wasn't dropped. How do we know if Slade is any good at international level if he's only given one game to state his case? It's the same with Roko, he missed one tackle and it's still being mentioned now yet Solomona missed several during the summer tour but it's never mentioned.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 13:26
It's a sign of Farrell's status in the squad.

When Dylan finally gets dropped Farrell will be Capt.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 13:43
What nonsense. Rested/injured players are often the waterboy/carry on messages. Farrell wasn't dropped for Slade, he was rested - and he's one of the best players in the world. When did he last have a bad game?

Slade definitely has another game in him this series - potentially at 13 against Samoa.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 14:25
Quote:
hasta
What nonsense. Rested/injured players are often the waterboy/carry on messages. Farrell wasn't dropped for Slade, he was rested - and he's one of the best players in the world. When did he last have a bad game?
Slade definitely has another game in him this series - potentially at 13 against Samoa.

They tell me he'd make quite a good water boy!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 14:37
The issue with Slade is that when he tried to pass the bottle to you he would chuck it about 3 feet in front instead. (Sm22)

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 14:46
I missed the game except the "highligts" (which went on for an hour!), was listening to the first half on the radio. Dawson and/or Grayson said that it looked like 2 x 13s playing, no 12, going for the same balls. Perhaps not surprising.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 15:49
Quote:
BathMatt53
The issue with Slade is that when he tried to pass the bottle to you he would chuck it about 3 feet in front instead. (Sm22)

thumbs down

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:30
Slade was not great on saturday but he is also not a 12 and so that has to be factored into it, also apart from maybe Watson and Ford in patches, the rest of the backline did not cover themselves in much glory. JJ was not great, Daly was all over the place, Ben Youngs was slow as ever and had a lot of terrible box kicks and Roko was just okay

 
OldMarovian
OldMarovian (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:35
Mako, Hughes and Lawes aside the players who enhanced their reputation tended to be the ones not playing!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:38
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Slade was not great on saturday but he is also not a 12 and so that has to be factored into it, also apart from maybe Watson and Ford in patches, the rest of the backline did not cover themselves in much glory. JJ was not great, Daly was all over the place, Ben Youngs was slow as ever and had a lot of terrible box kicks and Roko was just okay

Exeter were asked by Eddie to play Slade at 13, they did and then Slade gets picked at 12? confused smiley confused smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:40
Quote:
Man from LA
It's the same with Roko, he missed one tackle and it's still being mentioned now yet Solomona missed several during the summer tour but it's never mentioned.

If I remember correctly Solomona missed the same tackle three times which lead to an Argentinian try; he was probably the worst defender I have ever seen, although he may have improved recently! I thought Roko looked hesitant in defence but who could blame him when the sole reason he doesn’t have a barrow load of caps is his alleged defensive issues!

 
1876-Fez
1876-Fez (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:44
Wow... this Man from L.A. really doesn't like Owen Farrell... fair enough each to his own... but please could he back up some of his claims with some sort of facts..

Not a great game on Saturday... hopefully better this week .. but if not and Farrell plays thus bloke from L.A. can really go to town on him!



SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
Help for Heroes

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 16:59
Quote:
1876-Fez
Wow... this Man from L.A. really doesn't like Owen Farrell... fair enough each to his own... but please could he back up some of his claims with some sort of facts..
Not a great game on Saturday... hopefully better this week .. but if not and Farrell plays thus bloke from L.A. can really go to town on him!

Whether anyone likes Farrell or not, the fact that he has been nominated for the second straight year for World player of the year alongside Itoje who has also been nominated for the second straight year shows you the regard he is held in. Those two alongside Billy are the best players in the team.

The backline looked rudderless and lost without Farrell in the team and no one from 9-15 apart from Watson should be sure of their place in the starting 15 as they ranged from average to poor. Eddie could decide to go with Farrell at 10 in place of Ford or Farrell at 12 in place of Slade, Joseph did not have a terrible game but he also did not have a great one so he might still miss out to Slade who is actually a 13 and has been told by Eddie to play 13.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 17:23
I thought that Daly had very little to work with (and none of it good) and so it is harsh to criticise him to much as he didn't do much wrong IMO. As I hate to admit it as a Bath fan JJ isn't the form 13 in the prem for sure - going forward at least.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 17:29
Sorry BS but I'm not sure that is the solution. I said earlier in this thread that one of the reasons the backs looked listless was because Ford no longer offers the threat of breaking the line at 10. It was pointed out by BM53 that particularly in that game Ben Youngs was also at fault.

For the backline to work at all you need go forward ball, a threatening 9/10 and variety of attack. As a Sarries supporter you know that the go forward ball is fundamental.

On Saturday Youngs didn't snipe at all and Ford just moved it on.

Wales looked to play the same game but they were mostly lateral as well so I think they will stagnate unless they too develop so midfield incisiveness.

The key to line breaking was actually provided by Alex Losowski showing that Farrell wasn't necessarily the missing link.

Farrell should stay at 12, but only if Youngs and Ford need to offer a threat.

You also failed to mention Underhill who nailed anything that moved, he will get better with time when Eddie starts using him to carry ball. (incidentally that has nothing to do with him being Bath player, he just had a good game).

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 17:56
AFAIK no one has suggested a Farrell/Losowski pairing yet. Could be interesting?
Think Care should start over Youngs too.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 19:28
Shipwrecked, I was only talking about the backs, For the forwards, I thought everyone apart from Cole who offers nothing around the field and Kruis who needs to up his work in attack did pretty well.

As for Underhill, he was very good defensively in only his second start and will get better but for him to hold that 7 jersey or start to become one of the best sevens in the NH, he need to do more in attack, I have watched that game twice and he was anonymous in attack and he carried twice for zero yards, that is not good enough in attack. The good thing is he is still very young and only his second cap. The defensive part of his game is already solid, tackling especially, he reminded me of Dan Lydiate in the way he played on saturday, destructive tackler but not much else, you can't have that and Robshaw in the same backrow as again it puts a lot of pressure on Hughes or Billy to do everything ball carrying wise.


He now needs to seriously work on his breakdown work and especially his attack to get to the next level and to be a top class test number 7 as the guys he will be competing with in the six nations especially Warburton/Tipuric and O'brien are miles ahead in attack and are as good defensively

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 19:45
So many of the backs problems stem from a 9 playing a slow game, who seems unable to pass off the floor and needs to take 2 or 3 steps before passing. The quick sniping 9 that was Youngs a few years back has disappeared, and that should be a worry for Eddie.

I think Underhill was only asked to be the tackling machine he was by Eddie, he wasn't asked to be a ball carrier. No doubt that will change as he gets more experience, but a 7 really shouldn't need to be the carrier - there are 7 other forwards for that role.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 19:53
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Shipwrecked, I was only talking about the backs, For the forwards, I thought everyone apart from Cole who offers nothing around the field and Kruis who needs to up his work in attack did pretty well.
As for Underhill, he was very good defensively in only his second start and will get better but for him to hold that 7 jersey or start to become one of the best sevens in the NH, he need to do more in attack, I have watched that game twice and he was anonymous in attack and he carried twice for zero yards, that is not good enough in attack. The good thing is he is still very young and only his second cap. The defensive part of his game is already solid, tackling especially, he reminded me of Dan Lydiate in the way he played on saturday, destructive tackler but not much else, you can't have that and Robshaw in the same backrow as again it puts a lot of pressure on Hughes or Billy to do everything ball carrying wise.


He now needs to seriously work on his breakdown work and especially his attack to get to the next level and to be a top class test number 7 as the guys he will be competing with in the six nations especially Warburton/Tipuric and O'brien are miles ahead in attack and are as good defensively

Yes, I think that is right, but he has been told by Eddie Jones to concentrate exclusively on his tackling. As a club he has no shortage of excellent coaches at the breakdown and ball carrying in Todd Blackadder, Francois Louw and Talaupe Faletau. Less is more is EJ's philosophy, so He will get the defence sorted then move on to the other aspects of BR play.

You won't see him move on to attack for a while, he is there to protect Ford's channel currently.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 19:54
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
The defensive part of his game is already solid, tackling especially, he reminded me of Dan Lydiate in the way he played on saturday, destructive tackler but not much else, you can't have that and Robshaw in the same backrow as again it puts a lot of pressure on Hughes or Billy to do everything ball carrying wise.

60 Welsh cap & British Lion Dan Lydiate?

We don't really know what instructions Underhill was given (just concentrate on the defensive side?). However, certainly the Curry twins offer more of an all-round game, I am a massive fan of those young lads.

Underhill will never have the attacking skills of Tipuric - I can't think of too many in the NH who have (Croft?). Training with Flouw every day certainly won't do him any harm at the breakdown, his top heavy body shape is more similar to Pocock than bottom heavy O'Brien.

He will hopefully be a star for Bath and England for a long time to come and at just 21 its all ahead of him.

In relation to the 10/12 I wouldn't be averse to giving Farrell/Losowski a go either and agree that Care looks so much sharper at 9 than Youngs at the moment.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
13 November, 2017 20:06
As a rider, Underhill is very good at turnovers and he is very hard to shift. As pointed out above he is similar to Pocock, I'd take that any day.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
14 November, 2017 09:46
Underhill is a tackling machine - but so were Worsley and Haskell. It's fine, but it's not a complete game. Which is fine, he's 21. But he could do with adding some carrying/link play to his game.

Daly has been poor all season. Slade has been in excellent form at 13 for Ex. Wouldn't it be good to see:

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Slade
Roko
Watson

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
14 November, 2017 11:21
I think someone hit the nail on the head with the problem of having Robshaw and Underhill in the same side. It just does not work for me. Could Hughes play on the blind when Billy returns?

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
14 November, 2017 11:45
I talked about it and i don't think both of them can play in the same back row. I also don't think Hughes and Billy can, that is not a fast back row at all. Billy and Hughes to me is not a good back row and three players who are barely capable in the line out. I would rather someone like Lawes moved there if we wanted someone else in the backrow

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
14 November, 2017 11:49
Agree with that, I think Lawes at 6, Underhill/Robshaw at 7, Billy at 8. Missing Billy is by far the biggest issue though.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
15 November, 2017 07:11
From what I remember Richard Hill wasn't a ball carrier but was a world class 'stopper'. Didn't stop him playing for England, Lions and a World Cup Winner. Could Underhill become a blind side if he can't develop his ball carrying skills or is he too small (heaven forbid).

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
15 November, 2017 07:59
Quote:
hemington
From what I remember Richard Hill wasn't a ball carrier but was a world class 'stopper'. Didn't stop him playing for England, Lions and a World Cup Winner. Could Underhill become a blind side if he can't develop his ball carrying skills or is he too small (heaven forbid).

He is 2cm taller than Pocock supposedly - I guess that if you are good enough (as Pocock is) then you are tall enough for any of the back row positions and they are willing to sacrifice a lineout jumper. Quite interested that Kvesic (another inch taller) never consistently broke into the England set-up but he offers both the tackling and the turnovers?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
15 November, 2017 08:44
In relation to England as I mentioned before I think Underhill is being developed by Eddie, his coaching style is not to give players a wide range of attacking options to use, but rather give them 2 or 3 to learn well. So Eddie is starting with defence.

Underhill's strength is not only that he tackles but often sends them backwards killing opposition momentum. This can be used as an attacking weapon stopping the ball behind the game line. Personally I think Eddie wants his locks and BR to have overlap, Lawes and Itoje have both played flanker so that the back row becomes a back 5.

So in turnovers I expect Eddie to use Underhill's ability to get back on his feet in conjunction with the likes of Itoje, Lawes, Launchberry Billly V, Hughes, Robshaw etc to win go forward ball.

I think he has other candidates in mind as well.

Finally I think SU or similar stoppers are essential to his backs strategy to enable Ford to pull strings given Ford's limited physical presence.

Basically SU is a work in progress.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
15 November, 2017 10:00
And an excellent work in progress! Which ain't bad for a 21 year old in a problem position.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: England v Argentina
15 November, 2017 11:34
Underhill has a lot to learn to be the finished article but his start and progress to date are excellent. Well done Sam.

I don't think I can recall a 21 year old who tackles with such devastation, both stopping his man and often driving him backwards as well. He also gets back on his feet so quickly and often makes a second tackle just after the first.

If he could learn how to turn the ball over like Francois, he will be even more valuable and also practice his running and link game.

So glad we signed him.

Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?