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MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

England v Australia
14 November, 2017 15:52
Taken the liberty of qoting Hasta from the England v Argentina thread:

Quote:
hasta
Agree with that, I think Lawes at 6, Underhill/Robshaw at 7, Billy at 8. Missing Billy is by far the biggest issue though.

The squad has been announced for Saturday and biggest item to note is George Kruis is rested/dropped.

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards: Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

Bearing in mind that Eddie had a good idea of the side he wanted a month ago.

Interesting point re Billy V, in that he would be attacking the 9/10/12 channels where we were a bit inept on Saturday. Really looking forward to this one!!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 15:54
Bit of a surprise that:

'England second row George Kruis has been dropped for Saturday's Test against Australia at Twickenham.

Prop Ellis Genge and back Alex Lozowski have also been left out of the squad after coming on as replacements in the 21-8 win over Argentina at the weekend.

Loose-head prop Joe Marler replaces Genge in the 25-man squad after returning from suspension.

Bath's Charlie Ewels is named instead of Kruis while wing Jonny May is in contention after a hamstring injury.'


Don't get me wrong Charlie E. is great prospect for the future but personally I wouldn't pick him over Kruis against Australia.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 16:02
Not surprising at all, I said on the other thread, Kruis did not play well on saturday and Itoje this year in the six nations and even more importantly has shown that he can play TH lock and also run the line out. The advantage Kruis had there is negligible now as Itoje can call very well as he showed with the lions calling in the second and third tests.

The other point is Jones is a big fan of Ewels i think he will start against Samoa and might sneak unto the bench for saturday. He can call the line out as he did in Argentina and Eddie has mentioned him as someone who can play multiple positions as i think he has played 6 and also 8 for you guys.

Itoje starts when fit, Lawes has been playing out of his mind and the two of them together is an exciting combo, Launchbury will be on the bench, I love Kruis but no way Lawes can be benched with the way he is playing and Itoje starts when fit.

The interesting battle is between Simmonds and Ewels for a bench spot and i won't be surprised to see Ewels with the number 20 jersey on saturday

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 16:06
What a great position to be in with so many quality (and young) options!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 16:09
Its difficult to fathom I agree Matt but I don't think he will make the team to be honest. I'm hoping May's hamster doesn't get better to be honest though whoever it is will have their work cut out!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 16:12
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Itoje starts when fit, Lawes has been playing out of his mind and the two of them together is an exciting combo, Launchbury will be on the bench, I love Kruis but no way Lawes can be benched with the way he is playing and Itoje starts when fit.

I agree but has anyone noticed how often Lawes is stripped of the ball?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2017 16:17 by shipwrecked.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 17:17
Would rather Ewells was with Bath.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 17:26
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Itoje starts when fit, Lawes has been playing out of his mind and the two of them together is an exciting combo, Launchbury will be on the bench, I love Kruis but no way Lawes can be benched with the way he is playing and Itoje starts when fit.

I agree but has anyone noticed how often Lawes is stripped of the ball?

That is a good point, he does get stripped easily and a FH should not be stealing the ball from you like Hernandez did on saturday.

What is interesting for you bath fans is Alex Lowe is reporting as i just saw on the times that Eddie views Ewels as more of a world cup lock than Kruis, now that really will be big news and will mean a reshaping of the pecking order.

OutsideBath, I think Eddie is either planning to play Ewels from the bench on saturday or wants to wrap him in cotton wool as he wants him to play next week against Samoa from the start, i can't imagine Lawes or Itoje will be playing and as i have just said from the Alex Lowe report, Kruis might also not be playing and i would expect a second row of Launchbury and Ewels next weekend

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 17:53
I can't wait for BOBs take on this... I presume Ewels must have levelled someone in training.

I do think Ewels has more of a future international-wise than Kruis. Given neither are going to start, or even bench, you might as well give Charlie the experience. Talent-wise, I think there are few locks with the potential of Ewels, so I hope Eddie can coax it out of him.

Great for Bath, 20% of the England squad currently play for us.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 19:05
I read on Twitter that ewels totally lost it and beat up every man in the 23 substitute. They have now nicknamed him ‘psycho’ Ewels and he is the first man on the team sheet. BoB will be overjoyed when he hears the news.

 
Trawling
Trawling (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 20:28
He has also donated all the trappings of his pampered past to the Bath branch of the Exeter supporters club and is currently sleeping rough in the woods at Pennyhill Park.

 
Sirengco
Sirengco (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 20:51
Hes a good on pitch leader and 2nd row but i would be very suprised if Ewels is viewed by Eddie as a back row cover too... his carrying is really not strong enough. He's seemed to go down too easily in the tackle this season - too keen to set up the next phase and not to grab the extra yards. Rarely works at international level

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
14 November, 2017 21:55
What’s happened to Kruis? A year or so ago he was verging on world class. Ewels rarely seems to make a major impact without doing mmuch wrong.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 11:16
Kruis has not improved his handling in the loose and is not a big carrier. We have Itoje, Lawes and Launchbury, so the other option has to be a massive carrier or a 4th back row player. Kruis looked poor on the Lions tour when sitting at the top table. I cannot, though, see what Eddie sees in Ewels to suggest he can help us win games against NZ. Maybe he is looking at him as a WC squad player who covers back row for the group games.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 11:27
Well congratulations Mr Ewells.

Personally I just do not see what EJ sees in him as his performances to date at Bath have hardly been consistently steller. Stooke has contributed much more IMO. Hopefully he can bring some of what he produces and has learned in England training to Bath.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 12:23
I think Eddie probably sees him as a good long term option at 22 who can maybe get better. The pecking order is Itoje, Lawes, launchbury and then Ewels is fourth at best i guess. I still think it is not all over for Kruis but he has to improve his carrying and other work around the field

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 17:08
Bathmatt and Trawling you had me in stitches (Sm100)

Tbh I understand why you may not see the hype in Ewels BoB. I think what is perhaps missed with Ewels is that he is an incredibly intelligent rugby player in the same way Itoje is.

He may not have the same physical carrying game of others just yet but he is developing that. What he is good at though is rarely giving penalties, understanding the tactical side of rugby - e.g. when to do what with regards to set pieces, score boards etc - and because he is a smart bloke he is more often than not in the right place at the right time as understands what is happening in front and around him.

If you consider he is only 22 the physical size of him will get better but his skillset and attitude have really turned Jones' head and I do honestly see him as an almost sure fire Bath captain one day and a potential future captain of England.



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 17:56
I agree with you Big Dog, I think people use Itoje imo to judge Ewels unfairly, Itoje is a once in a generation type of talent but apart from Itoje, if you look at George Kruis at 22 and where he was and where Ewels is now, Ewels is much further ahead.

I think Ewels is a very good player who will only get better, he is a bit like Launchbury in my opinion, he is good at everything without being world class or exceptional at any one thing.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 18:06
Did I imagine it, or did I read somewhere that Ewels is nicknamed 'Johnno' as a nod to just how good he is?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 19:47
Itoje is 23. Ewels is 22.

If Ewels is so good is he as good as Itoje was last year?

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 20:40
Plenty of discussion above but time to cut to the chase, who will win on Saturday? I want tried and tested for this match i.e. Farrell at 12 and Itoje in 2nd row with Lawes. Ford to start 10 with Care at 9. JJ at 13; Watson 15, May 11 and Roko 14.

My Forwards 1 MV, 2 JG, 3 DC, 6 CR, 7 SU, 8 NH. Not sure we'll get over the line after last weeks performance. Still, would rather lose at HQ in 2017 than Japan 2019. Hoping for the best but just a little fear...



Adopted players: 2017-18 T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 22:27
Yes, time to focus, I expect the pack to be more dominant which will provide better ball. Back to what we know as you say.

Farrell at 12, Watson at 15 but I'm not sure Roko will get picked for this one, May and Daly.

Lets hope Beale doesn't do one of those steals again!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
15 November, 2017 23:14
Surely he's got to give Slade another game, probably at the expense of JJ. If Eddie wants that depth for 2019, he's got to give Slade a proper run, especially in the position he pretty much forced on him. There's not much more to learn about JJ, plus there's plenty to be said for giving him a run against a tiring defence. Perfect opportunity to start without Brown too. Yes, we might lose, but there's a bigger picture to be attended to.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 01:40
Agree. I'd go Care, Ford, May, Faz, Slade, Daly, Watson. The Oz defence is too good to allow Youngs time to dither before flinging a man and ball pass to George. And Faz and Underhill are going to have their hands full with the Oz centres coming down George's channel.

I'd start Jamie George, Launch in the 2nd row and put Lawes at 6. Someone's got to get at Bernard Foley and I don't think Underhill is the man for that just yet.

Saying all that, Kurtley Beale is the difference. If we can limit his opportunities, we'll win. If not, we won't.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 06:13
Slade will probably get a game next week. If anyone is dropped it should be Daly who is bang out of form. JJ to wing? Won't be though.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 06:43
If you're going to change up the back three, then I would keep the midfield to tried and tested, so keep Ford, Farrell and Joseph.

Too many changes will be high risk against Australia, in what's been touted as the biggest Autumn International fixture this autumn.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 08:00
Quote:
Optimist
Surely he's got to give Slade another game, probably at the expense of JJ. If Eddie wants that depth for 2019, he's got to give Slade a proper run, especially in the position he pretty much forced on him. There's not much more to learn about JJ, plus there's plenty to be said for giving him a run against a tiring defence. Perfect opportunity to start without Brown too. Yes, we might lose, but there's a bigger picture to be attended to.

Yes, apart from Eddie's record and nobody liking losing, especially to Australia, we want to win the WC not the AIs

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 08:29
Quote:
woodpecker

Yes, apart from Eddie's record and nobody liking losing, especially to Australia, we want to win the WC not the AIs

Both, ideally please!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 08:31
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker

Yes, apart from Eddie's record and nobody liking losing, especially to Australia, we want to win the WC not the AIs

Both, ideally please!

Yes, both ideally, but not equally...

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 09:58
Of course both, ideally. But what would Eddie learn about Slade - for example - by giving him a game against Samoa in what, inevitably, will involve some new combination and less demanding opposition.

And surely now is the perfect time to slot Roko into the back 3 for an out-of-form Daly - especially if Ant is at full-back, given how well they know each other's game.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 10:12
I agree with all of that Opti - but I just don't see Eddie picking anything other than the best team he thinks can beat Australia.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 10:45
"Surely he's got to give Slade another game"

I don't see why "surely". I think its a fair call, but if he didn't I'd be pretty indifferent.

"But what would Eddie learn about Slade"

That he can translate his form to international level at all. Asking what he'd learn about him assumes that he's the answer. I don't think that's clear at the moment.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:13
As more or less expected:

Starting 15
15 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 27 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 27 caps), 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 34 caps), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 52 caps), 11 Elliot Daly (Wasps 14 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 38 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 71 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 43 caps), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 87 caps) captain, 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 75 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 45 caps), 5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 59 caps), 6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 57 caps), 7 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 2 caps), 8 Nathan Hughes (Wasps 11 caps).

Finishers
16 Jamie George (Saracens 18 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 51 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 3 caps), 19 Maro Itoje (Saracens 12 caps), 20 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap), 21 Danny Care (Harlequins 74 caps), 22 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs 8 caps), 23 Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby 3 caps).

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:21
Itoge on the bench!!!!?????? But he's an expert at winding up aussies!!!!!!

Would have preferred to see Launchberry as a finisher as he really is good to have come on later.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:21
Good team selection. Let's see how May goes on the right wing.

Seems bizarre that JJ has drawn any criticism recently. People have short memories with how he has performed for England. He's the right choice for the big game this Autumn. Slade will get his chances.

Hope our backrow can show up well - it's a big test for them.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:29
JJ doesn't seem to have bad games, just games where he is not the star turn. The centre fiasco in the last WC needs to be avoided. Stick with what we've got and have Teo in reserve (if fit).

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:30
What would Eddie learn about Slade > is he the answer? > I don't think that's clear > So put him on the bench > What does Eddie learn > is he the answer? > that's still not clear > ad nauseam

Possibly the most circular argument ever.

Still - can't say i'm not excited by the selected backline!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:31
Eddie has an awful lot of loyalty to Ben Youngs

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 11:39
Quote:
Optimist
Surely he's got to give Slade another game, probably at the expense of JJ. If Eddie wants that depth for 2019, he's got to give Slade a proper run, especially in the position he pretty much forced on him. There's not much more to learn about JJ, plus there's plenty to be said for giving him a run against a tiring defence. Perfect opportunity to start without Brown too. Yes, we might lose, but there's a bigger picture to be attended to.
Any chance we could stop saying the bolded please?
It's not like Slade had never played OC before Eddie suggested he settle there. I mean, he'd made more than 50% of his starts in the 13 jersey before that comment.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anythinghttp://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 12:06
Now that a precedent has been set by Farrell last week, I'm guessing that Kruis can now be water-boy/coach from the sidelines this week now that he hasn't been picked for the side? Or is that privilege only for a certain player?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 12:13
Players are waterboys quite (very) frequently? I don't get the issue.

Surprised that Itoje is on the bench, he would be one of my first picks for any team.

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past. Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks and keeping them on their toes (watching for the snipe) to give GF the space and time that he works best with.

 
Parcdeprince
Parcdeprince (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 12:41
In defence of Youngs he has to deal with what the forwards give him, and last week they weren't giving him quick enough front foot ball. This in turn clogged up Ford and the midfield...

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 12:44
The Slade situation might turn into a Twelvetrees or Eastmond one. You need a settled partnership and Farrell plus JJ looks good enough to me. If Slade or Lozowski or someone else are going to move above Ford and JJ, then they have to be up to speed straight away. We cannot waste caps like we did before the last WC. IMHO, Slade doen't seem to be the test match animal we would like him to be. I hope I am proves wrong, as some experts have him down as the love child of Mike Catt and BOD.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 12:55
Glad to see JJ's experience and all round game preferred- he will be needed.

Itoje on bench is an odd now -unless Eddie has some master plan about use of the subs (to do more than just bring fresh legs).

If England win this one a little more experimentation will be possible v Samoa.

PG

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:05
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:05
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:10
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

rarely, I guess the 9 10 club partnership buys him some latitide, but it seems that its not an area Eddie is that concerned about

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:21
Youngs box-kicking is very good. Pass, not so much.

BathMatt53, Man from LA really didn't like Farrell being waterboy and carrying on messages last week. It's not entirely clear why - this is very standard practice.

Kruis being dropped for form is harsh - but indicates the ridiculous quality of English locks at the moment.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:21
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

He definitely has been that guy in the past, he has had some storming games. Agree with Woodpecker it appears to be a rarity these days though on the sniping front but remember he was MoM against Australia as recently as December 2016.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:28
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

He definitely has been that guy in the past, he has had some storming games. Agree with Woodpecker it appears to be a rarity these days though on the sniping front but remember he was MoM against Australia as recently as December 2016.

He used to get a few sneaky tries from inside the 22 a bit like Zac Mercer's

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:29
Quote:
hasta
Youngs box-kicking is very good. Pass, not so much.
BathMatt53, Man from LA really didn't like Farrell being waterboy and carrying on messages last week. It's not entirely clear why - this is very standard practice.

Kruis being dropped for form is harsh - but indicates the ridiculous quality of English locks at the moment.

Bath players do it all the time.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:30
Teams Up!

Team: Watson, May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, Hartley, Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes.

Replacements: George, Marler, Williams, Itoje, Simmonds, Care, Slade, Rokoduguni.

Big game for Sam Underhill !! Roko on the bench as suspected.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:37
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
BathMatt53

Youngs will need to up his game big time and show us the player that he definitely has been for England and Tigers in the past.

Quick accurate ball, good length on the kicks...

Has Youngs ever been that guy?

He definitely has been that guy in the past, he has had some storming games. Agree with Woodpecker it appears to be a rarity these days though on the sniping front but remember he was MoM against Australia as recently as December 2016.

I can't criticise his sniping nor his ability to take the ball to the line.

I have never found his delivery quick or accurate and mechanically I don't see how it could be. Not to mention the success of his sniping requires him to hold the ball longer.

He is also an average box kicker.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:51
I wonder if the fact that he has selected a very fast back 3, albeit enforced, is a deliberate ploy, with JJ as well the kick chase could be interesting!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 13:54
Hasta: 'Youngs box-kicking is very good'
Substitute: 'He is also an average box kicker'

Will the real Ben Youngs please stand up?

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 14:35
I don't think Eddie dropping Slade to bench is an issue tbh. Nor do I think that Slade is not up to test level as others appear to be hinting at. He only has 8 caps with only 3/4 of them that I can think of starts. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to the World Cup and Ford, Farrell and JJ is still our starting midfield tbh. You can have to excellent distributors, a hotstepping 13 who at the top of his game is able to break the line at ease and is also defensively one of the best in the international game in that position.
It is really more about building that level of depth that if someone gets injured or has poor form that the next guy to step in is just as good as the previous option! That is where Slade, Lozowski, Daly, Francis as options at 12/13 need to all up their games to put the pressure on the starting guys to stay at 100%.

I am not so sure though that Launchbury offers the same dynamism off the bench as Itoje and if Eddie is monitoring Maro's workload makes more sense to do it this way around - albeit Australia is our biggest game of the Autumn no??



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 14:41
Not many people offer the same dynamism as itoje _ I often think Launchbury's resemblance to the Pilsbury Dough Boy doesn't help his perceived dynamism

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 14:48
Quote:
woodpecker
Not many people offer the same dynamism as itoje _ I often think Launchbury's resemblance to the Pilsbury Dough Boy doesn't help his perceived dynamism

Funnily enough the Pilsbury Dough Boy doesn't really get much work since he was cast in Ghostbusters as the Stay Puft marshmallow man.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 14:50
Bit harsh Woody!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.mediapost.com/dam/cropped/2017/03/10/pilsburydoughboy-600_gpQKmao.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 15:01
Maybe a bit harsh, now if he was a porp..

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 15:16
Re Youngs - I'd say he's the second best English box-kicking 9 after Wigglesworth (quite far behind tbf). He's not Conor Murray.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 15:19
Personally I think Launchberry is one of England's best players, not the best but up there!

Similarly to Robshaw he just puts a lot of hard work in. Also his match fitness is truly incredible, pops up all over the place. IMO it is a travesty he wasn't awarded a lions place this year. That being said he works best for England off the bench, adds some grunt to close out the game.

 
22Dropout
22Dropout (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 16:58
Not sure I agree with that Hasta. For me Youngs consistently overhits his box kicks so that the chasers have no chance of competing or even really pressuring the receiver. Do that against the Aussies and we will get severely punished.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
16 November, 2017 23:34
Quote:
hasta
Re Youngs - I'd say he's the second best English box-kicking 9 after Wigglesworth (quite far behind tbf). He's not Conor Murray.

How dare you denigrate our own Chris Cook like that...

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 08:04
I did it after unnecessarily being petulant at the ref and slowing down play.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 09:12
Quote:
Big Dog
I don't think Eddie dropping Slade to bench is an issue tbh. Nor do I think that Slade is not up to test level as others appear to be hinting at. He only has 8 caps with only 3/4 of them that I can think of starts. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to the World Cup and Ford, Farrell and JJ is still our starting midfield

Completely agree with the first part but would be very interested to see how Farrell at 10 and Slade at 12 goes and the Samoan match is ideal opportunity to test it

If it looks promising then with the talent of Lowzowski coming through Ford may have a battle to stay in the match day 23 not just the starting 15

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 10:26
Quote:
gaz59
Completely agree with the first part but would be very interested to see how Farrell at 10 and Slade at 12 goes and the Samoan match is ideal opportunity to test it
If it looks promising then with the talent of Lowzowski coming through Ford may have a battle to stay in the match day 23 not just the starting 15

See I know we should really spit and rub it into the ground every time we mention his name but I do really rate Ford. His passing game is the best in England and the Northern Hemisphere when behind a pack that is going forwards imo - which an English pack really should be.
Examples are that pass for Hughes at the weekend or a similar one that goes to Yarde in one of the test against Australia last summer. Even Farrell or Sexton cannot hit those passes in the same way consistently.

That said it will all depend how Eddie see's England playing best next year and coming up to 2019. If he gets to the World cup and thinks f**k it, we still can't compete with NZ for pretty rugby but are really good defensively and can grind out wins with hard fought grunt and a bit of wide magic, then Ford could be thrown out with Farrell moving to 10 and someone else slotting in at 12 potentially.

It isn't like there wouldn't be enough X factor still in the backline to win you a test from nothing with JJ, Watson, May, Nowell, Daly, Slade, Lozowski et al all out there still presumably to conjure something up.



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 10:35
You are right on many points BD about Ford but I don't think Ford/Farrell is the complete solution.

Gatland may not be the best Lions coach but against NZ he quickly realised that adopting Englands strategy wouldn't work for for the Lions. In addition I know that both Ford and Farrell are not often injured but it only takes one f them to get crocked and we are left struggling.

Time is running out for testing out combinations and I would be more relaxed if I could see a developing plan B.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 11:46
Shipwrecked - I thought Gatland binned the big bosher at 12 after the first test and copied England's double playmaker system. It won them the second test and they drew the third....

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 12:14
"Examples are that pass for Hughes at the weekend"

Wasn't Slade's pass to Roko virtually identical?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 13:22
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Shipwrecked - I thought Gatland binned the big bosher at 12 after the first test and copied England's double playmaker system. It won them the second test and they drew the third....

OK DB just re-read my post and its not what I meant to say...oops. What I meant is that Gatland realised that Ford would be vulnerable at 10 given the way NZ would attack down that channel hence the reason he didn't select him, he adopted England's style but not their personnel.

I think Ford and Farrell will challenge most defences but I don't think that combination can beat NZ in a World Cup. Once off perhaps, I think we need something more robust as an alternative 10/12 combo.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 13:58
Quote:
Optimist
"Examples are that pass for Hughes at the weekend"
Wasn't Slade's pass to Roko virtually identical?

Slade's pass was also excellent yes! About 15 yards skipping out one of the other England guys straight to Roko.

If you watch Ford's though it was missing out about 4 players and was maybe just short of throwing the ball half the width of the pitch...



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 21:12
Slade's pass was also forward.....

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
17 November, 2017 21:55
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Slade's pass was also forward.....

Otherwise known as ‘flat’. It wasn’t forward or the ref would have given it as forward.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
18 November, 2017 14:56
Do you think that we can please all club together and pay Stuart Barnes to shut up for 80 mins? I am seriously considering watching the game in ‘mute’.

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
18 November, 2017 15:03
Underhill off for HIA?
Is there any way of getting this online? I don't have access to Sky.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England v Australia
18 November, 2017 15:04
Now tv subscription through smart tv or iPad cost very little for a day. It was only about £25 for the month?


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