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Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:11
I think its far more likely that the Conservatives will put up a Hard Brexit candidate (possibly Gove) who will beat Corbyn. The Tories are at the end of their tether with May as it is and will put together a strong project fear campaign to call out Corbyn and his bizarre policies.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:17
"I think its far more likely that the Conservatives will put up a Hard Brexit candidate (possibly Gove) who will beat Corbyn. "

Corbyn is practically unelectable, unless the Tories do something stupid like elect Gove. In that case, it could go either way, but neither way is way you want.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:23
Telegraph reporting Nicola Sturgeon and Sadiq Khan saying Scotland and London could also remain in the customs union if NI can.

So avoiding a hard border on Ireland could result in 2 hard borders on the mainland! Hilarious!

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:25
Is this to be May's epitaph? Will the DUP and the extreme Tory Brexiteers combine forces to bring her down?

To answer my own question, Much as I hope they will, I think their fondness of power will prevail and this whole charade, that there is a solution to the Irish problem, will allow this unholy alliance to stagger on for a few more months.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:32
Quote:
hasta
Will the DUP accept it is probably a more pressing issue...

Thatís alright, because the SNP, Labour and Plaid will accept this.

Finally the Norway / Switzerland solution is looking like saving us from this nonsense.

Itís ironic that the traditional Basket Case part of the UK, will be the area that averts a disaster.

J

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:45
The Tories performance in the Brexit "negotiations" has been so weak it demonstrates they are not fit to govern.

Trouble is the alternative is a lunatic left winger with the politics of a teenager.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 15:48
Quote:
DanWiley
"I think its far more likely that the Conservatives will put up a Hard Brexit candidate (possibly Gove) who will beat Corbyn. "
Corbyn is practically unelectable, unless the Tories do something stupid like elect Gove. In that case, it could go either way, but neither way is way you want.

I hear that the ridiculous Rees Mogg is the favourite, anyone good at photoshop I'm pretty sure if you took off his glasses and geve him a Hitler moustache it would be interesting



[www.dailyrecord.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 16:33 by woodpecker.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 17:34
Looks like the DUP have thrown a massive spanner in the works.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 18:26
Quote:
jayeatman
Looks like the DUP have thrown a massive spanner in the works.
Given that there was never going to be a solution in Ireland that the DUP would accept - I'm not particularly surprised by that news.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 20:16
A put up job.

May must have known the DUP, Scots and London would all react to a border in the Irish Sea. It was never workable.

Poor Theresa now has the sympathy of the EU leaders so she can say that thereís no alternative to hard Brexit and everyone blames each other not the govt.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 20:31
Maybot hoisted and roasted by own arrogance of unnecessary snap election - had she not done that she wouldn't have needed to buy the DUP vote. There is only one person to blame here

Why would any rational person sympathise let alone EU leaders?

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 21:04
May is on borrowed time and it's now very possible that there will be a 2018 general election. If she did her original (unworkable) plan of a border in the Irish Sea the DUP would bring her down, and if she allowed the rest of the UK to have regulatory alignment that NI would have got then the brexit nutters in her party would bring her down. As for Corbyn, if in a general election Labour came out for the softest of Brexits against the Tories hard Brexit (making it a 3rd referendum in essence), then I think they could gain enough numbers for a coalition at least. If Corbyn the Eurosceptic thought he could gain power out of it then I'd think he'd go for it.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 21:20
Its all totally and without question Bollocks.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
04 December, 2017 22:25
Quote:
Gaz59
Maybot hoisted and roasted by own arrogance of unnecessary snap election - had she not done that she wouldn't have needed to buy the DUP vote. There is only one person to blame here

Yes the snap election was unnecessary but it was a failed gamble. Nothing to do with arrogance, lots to do with poor judgement and a terrible Tory campaign.

No she wouldnít have got such a ridiculous scheme through the Tory brexiteers regardless of what the DUP said. The good thing was that the DUP were so clear and decisive that it saved us a slower and more embarrassing reversal.

No there are many people to blame here with my vote going for Cameron as the main protagonist.

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 00:42
It is no longer whether Northern Ireland will leave the EU on the same terms as the rest of the UK. It is whether the rest of the UK will now leave the EU on the same terms as Northern Ireland. Given what seems to have been conceded, there is only one way for Northern Ireland not to have a special status Ė and that is for all the UK to remain in the customs union.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 01:44
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
It is no longer whether Northern Ireland will leave the EU on the same terms as the rest of the UK. It is whether the rest of the UK will now leave the EU on the same terms as Northern Ireland. Given what seems to have been conceded, there is only one way for Northern Ireland not to have a special status Ė and that is for all the UK to remain in the customs union.

I get the very strong feeling that we're not getting the whole truth here... and certainly the EU spin machine is at full throttle (this @campaignforLeo thing is perverse).

Nevertheless I am glad for the DUP and the tory 'rebels' standing their ground. It would have been absurd to constitutionally separate Northern Ireland from the mainland and would really have been an enormous concession to Ireland.

What's bizarre is how people seem to think that it would be acceptable and, worse, that Theresa May would even countenance it.

May's offer may have been misrepresented (maybe) but I think this is ugly and has alienated the last of her supporters. Her speech about the Conservative and Unionist party opposing Scottish independence looks absurd now. She has, yet again, been terribly advised and a terrible conservative...

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:04
So at least Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, London, Cornwall and Grimsby all want to remain in the customs union, that's a pretty wide and culturally diverse range. Do you think there's a chance that is we asked the rest of the UK we might find that actually an overwhelmingly majority want to stay in?

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:34
DUP won't accept any divergence from UK law etc. Except for same sex marriage and abortion. Very flawed position but not surprising.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:36
Quote:
DanWiley
So at least Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, London, Cornwall and Grimsby all want to remain in the customs union, that's a pretty wide and culturally diverse range. Do you think there's a chance that is we asked the rest of the UK we might find that actually an overwhelmingly majority want to stay in?

No. If we stay in the Customs Union we might have just as well stayed in the EU which wasnít what was voted for. The situation is ridiculous not because Theresa May is hopeless but because it is not possible to sort out the Irish border problem without knowing the outcome of free trade negotiations. It is unreasonable to require a solution at this stage. I be,Ive they will find a form of words to save face & move on to the next stage.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:47
If we leave the customs union there will be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:54
It looks to me that we are aiming for a no deal brexit and now TM can say well I did try for a deal but the brexiteers and DUP didn't want it! Yes Cameron is to blame for having the ref but he his hands were tied. However, more to blame is Corbyn who gave lip service to the Remain argument and the brexit leaders who didn't have a clue what they were advocating. 17m of us were duped!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 08:56
Quote:
woodpecker
If we leave the customs union there will be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Which is unacceptable to the Republic. Who have a veto on further progression of talks.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 09:06
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
woodpecker
If we leave the customs union there will be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Which is unacceptable to the Republic. Who have a veto on further progression of talks.

Yes, it's getting to the point where all the made up nonsense is starting to unravel.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 09:12
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
woodpecker
If we leave the customs union there will be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Which is unacceptable to the Republic. Who have a veto on further progression of talks.

It was never going to be a hard border as it was in the past but similar to that between Norway & Sweden & it becomes even less important following a successful trade deal.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 09:12
It's nonsense to say people didn't vote to leave the EU but stay in the customs union. Lots of people wanted a Swiss or Norway model. You can't just take a vague question and say the answer means a very specific deal.

The UK could leave the EU, the CU and single market and avoid a hard border. But we would need a trade deal with the EU that says there will be no regulatory divergence between the EU and the whole UK (not just NI). The UK would then have to duplicate EU law in our own regulations and we wouldn't be able to strike any deal with US or other countries that would allow goods that did not meet the EU regulations into the UK. So, you know, we may as well stay in the customs union. Although, there is the benefit of signing deals other than the EU deals, we just need to ensure they meet EU regulations!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 09:30
"No. If we stay in the Customs Union we might have just as well stayed in the EU which wasnít what was voted for. "

This arguement is flawed and needs to go. Norway and Switzerland clearly show that you can be meaningful out of the EU and in the eea. Therefore the implication "we might just as well of stayed in the EU" just doesn't hold. It can literally be shown to be false through example.

Further, recent events have shown that there must be plenty of people who whilst they might have voted out, so not want a hard brexit. That makes the idea that a majority have voted for a hard brexit untenable.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 09:39
The thing that gets me is the one about our ability to sign new trade deals, i.e. deals with countries which are not one of the 27 EU states or the other 50 countries the EU already has deals with.

That is none of 'the people's business, the thick morons



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2017 10:15 by woodpecker.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:00
Quote:
woodpecker
The thing that gets me is the one about our ability to sign new trade deals, i.e. deals with countries not one of the 27 EU states or the other 50 the EU already has.
That is none of 'the people's business, the thick morons

Nice language (whatever you are driving at)

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:29
Why would we want a Norway/Swiss style EU relationship, its essentially what we had before yet we give up our voice.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:42
Quote:
by
Why would we want a Norway/Swiss style EU relationship, its essentially what we had before yet we give up our voice.

That's the standard view, but Switzerland and Norway have both rejected joining the EU and prefer what they have. The Swiss in 3 referendums the Norwegians in 2.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:48
If Brexiteers voted thinking we would get a Norway or Switzerland then that does not tally with bringing back control. Both these deals cede control to the EU despite being non members. We were duped I say, duped!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:54
"Why would we want a Norway/Swiss style EU relationship, its essentially what we had before yet we give up our voice."

Well quite. You'd have to ask brexiteer. A few guesses:

1) We can say we're not a part of this EU super state. In a world of superstates I don't see the problem, but it is for some.

2) We'd probably have greater control over our legislation and regulation. In fact, in practical terms we'd probably have more control over our legislation and regulation than if we had a hard brexit and had to agree to many different trade deals.

3) we -might- pay a bit less.

So that -seems- to address some fairly big issues that brexiteers had. The truth is none of them were real issues in the first place, but if you accept that then there really is very little point leaving.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 10:54
Another time to suspend disbelief:

Putting a border in the Irish sea is going to maintain peace...

Yeah, don't think so.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 11:02
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
DUP won't accept any divergence from UK law etc. Except for same sex marriage and abortion. Very flawed position but not surprising.

It's not flawed.

Constitutionally speaking the DUP are exactly correct. Stormont can set domestic laws but international relations. Immigration and borders are excepted matters.

I know it's nice to characterise the DUP as 'loonies' (bear in mind that a good proportion of Stormont is republican too) but lets not let facts get in the way of that...

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 11:58
Just for a bit of fun, could we list on this site who are Remainers and who are Brexiters ? And does anyone regret that way they voted? I will start it off!
I voted Remain and would do it again!

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 12:22
Quote:
Bath Hammer

No. If we stay in the Customs Union we might have just as well stayed in the EU which wasnít what was voted for.

This simply isn't true. There are many reasons why people voted Brexit, some of them were clearly lies.
Most people didn't know what they were voting FOR, they were voting AGAINST the EU. We still have no idea what we're actually going to GET.

Quote:
Bath Hammer
The situation is ridiculous not because Theresa May is hopeless but because it is not possible to sort out the Irish border problem without knowing the outcome of free trade negotiations. It is unreasonable to require a solution at this stage. I be,Ive they will find a form of words to save face & move on to the next stage.

This is true but it's just kicking the can down the road.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 12:40
Quote:
BathPatriot
Just for a bit of fun, could we list on this site who are Remainers and who are Brexiters ? And does anyone regret that way they voted? I will start it off!
I voted Remain and would do it again!

Itís not as simple as that, certainly in my case. I voted for remain, not because I could see many advantages in our membership & saw some distinct disadvantages, but because I didnít want all the hassle & disruption. I foresaw what we are currently going through like many others Iím sure. However, when I see how intransigent the EU is & their direction of travel I think I might vote to leave in another referendum. I donít think we should go back on what we have now decided & everyone should try & make it work & not harp back to what might have been if we had voted differently. Furthermore I donít think it is in our interests to cling on to certain aspects of the EU & only half leave as some seem to want.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 12:57
Quote:
CoochieCoo
If Brexiteers voted thinking we would get a Norway or Switzerland then that does not tally with bringing back control. Both these deals cede control to the EU despite being non members. We were duped I say, duped!

The referendum question didn't mention "taking back control" so we have no idea what view Leave or Remain voters have on the issue of "taking back control".

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 13:01
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
DUP won't accept any divergence from UK law etc. Except for same sex marriage and abortion. Very flawed position but not surprising.

It's not flawed.

Constitutionally speaking the DUP are exactly correct. Stormont can set domestic laws but international relations. Immigration and borders are excepted matters.

I know it's nice to characterise the DUP as 'loonies' (bear in mind that a good proportion of Stormont is republican too) but lets not let facts get in the way of that...

I didn't say they coudn't do it, legally or constitutionally. I'm saying it's a contradiction to say you reject any divergence from UK law and regulation while simultaneously passing laws that create a divergence from UK law.

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 13:14
When we were told we would 'take back control', no-one said we would give it to a small bunch of hard-line nutters. If they 'stand their ground' and we leave on WTO terms because there is no deal, then (by the Treasury's own figures, so no-one can say the usual 'project fear' BS) unemployment is expected to rise by at least 820,000 and Sterling to fall by 15% in the first 24 months. British farmers would face tariffs between 30-40% to export to the EU (putting many/most of them out of business). UK banks and financial institutions would lose their passporting rights meaning they could not trade with the EU unless they set up a subsidiary within the EU or relocated to it. Currently 5,500 UK firms rely on these rights, bringing in nearly £10billion in revenue every year. There are no upsides to a hard Brexit (or any for Brexit that matter), just austerity, cuts, and lower living standards for most of us (not rich elites like Farage, Johnson or Davies though) for at least the next 20 years.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 13:29
And, of course, No Deal Means No Deal. So no flights from UK over EU airspace. No cancer treatments. No new drugs etc etc. And a million other effects no-one has predicted.

However, No Deal also means a definite hard border on the island of Ireland. And no agreement on EU citizens rights in the UK (and vice versa). And no Ä50bn payoff.

The EU does not want a no deal Brexit. Barnier and the EU will have failed if they do not deliver a borderless Ireland, security for EU citizens and a big enough payoff to keep Junker in cognac.

No-one wants to fail.

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 13:42
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
BathPatriot
Just for a bit of fun, could we list on this site who are Remainers and who are Brexiters ? And does anyone regret that way they voted? I will start it off!
I voted Remain and would do it again!

Itís not as simple as that, certainly in my case. I voted for remain, not because I could see many advantages in our membership & saw some distinct disadvantages, but because I didnít want all the hassle & disruption. I foresaw what we are currently going through like many others Iím sure. However, when I see how intransigent the EU is & their direction of travel I think I might vote to leave in another referendum. I donít think we should go back on what we have now decided & everyone should try & make it work & not harp back to what might have been if we had voted differently. Furthermore I donít think it is in our interests to cling on to certain aspects of the EU & only half leave as some seem to want.

What happened yesterday, which stopped the EU and UK Govt making sufficient progress to move onto trading arrangements, was down to the intransigence of the DUP and hard line elements in her own party, not the EU. And to make out the EU are the ones being intransigent and the UK aren't just isn't credible. Both sides in a negotiation will represent their own interests as best they can using every legal way possible, the EU negotiators have a duty to represent the EU, and the UK negotiators to represent the UK. It's not the EU's fault that the UK Govt picked *David Davies* to do the negotiating.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 14:14
Quote:
Man form LA
What happened yesterday, which stopped the EU and UK Govt making sufficient progress to move onto trading arrangements, was down to the intransigence of the DUP and hard line elements in her own party, not the EU. And to make out the EU are the ones being intransigent and the UK aren't just isn't credible.

The DUP intransigence you refer to was them saying that they don't want any trade barriers between another part of the UK and their largest trading partner. Doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.

It could be argued that EU intransigence is to demand that this negotiation is completed linearly rather than parking contentious issues until we have the full picture.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 14:27
Quote:
Man from LA
When we were told we would 'take back control', no-one said we would give it to a small bunch of hard-line nutters. If they 'stand their ground' and we leave on WTO terms because there is no deal, then (by the Treasury's own figures, so no-one can say the usual 'project fear' BS) unemployment is expected to rise by at least 820,000 and Sterling to fall by 15% in the first 24 months. British farmers would face tariffs between 30-40% to export to the EU (putting many/most of them out of business). UK banks and financial institutions would lose their passporting rights meaning they could not trade with the EU unless they set up a subsidiary within the EU or relocated to it. Currently 5,500 UK firms rely on these rights, bringing in nearly £10billion in revenue every year. There are no upsides to a hard Brexit (or any for Brexit that matter), just austerity, cuts, and lower living standards for most of us (not rich elites like Farage, Johnson or Davies though) for at least the next 20 years.

Please donít confuse statements of fact with your personal view or
even a treasury forecast. If the latest opinion polls can be believed it seems that views are hardening towards a so called hard Brexit though of course all those people are ignoramuses who have been misled & donít know the true ďfactsĒ as you do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2017 14:29 by Bath Hammer.

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 14:42
I thought the latest poll was 50% wanted a second referendum.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 15:08
I might be of a mind to vote in a second referendum to stay in the EU on the following conditions :

- No more May, no more Boris, no more Gove
- No more Juncker, no more Verhofstadt, no more Tusk, no more Barnier
- Sensible and solid centre left or centre right UK government in power (let the people decide but please no comrade Corbyn)
- Brussels closed down and the EU HQ moved to Poland
- Laura Kussenberg moved off mainstream BBC onto CBeebies

Oh .. and all the commercial, regulation stuff as is.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 15:17
Anyone who says the country is more pro-Brexit now that at the referendum is deluded. Opinions may be hardening in both the Brexit and Remain camps and the middle-ground is mostly unchanged. A few of these may be influenced by (yet another) Brexiteer lie that Article 50 can't be reversed. It can.

Three things are certain:
1. More people are pessimistic about the Brexit out turn.
2. More and more people want a referendum on the eventual deal.
3. More and more people think May & Co are doing a poor job.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 17:06
Quote:
woodpecker
If we leave the customs union there will be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Which cant / wonít happen. Therefore, letís follow this through.....

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 18:28
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Quote:
CoochieCoo
If Brexiteers voted thinking we would get a Norway or Switzerland then that does not tally with bringing back control. Both these deals cede control to the EU despite being non members. We were duped I say, duped!

The referendum question didn't mention "taking back control" so we have no idea what view Leave or Remain voters have on the issue of "taking back control".

There were lots of things not on the ballot paper but BoJo in a rallying speech said let's take back control and vote leave and it was the mantra of the leavers during the campaign.

You are right we have no idea what leave voters voted for because they were and still are clueless what they want!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 19:21
Quote:
CoochieCoo
It looks to me that we are aiming for a no deal brexit and now TM can say well I did try for a deal but the brexiteers and DUP didn't want it! Yes Cameron is to blame for having the ref but he his hands were tied. However, more to blame is Corbyn who gave lip service to the Remain argument and the brexit leaders who didn't have a clue what they were advocating. 17m of us were duped!

Corbyn more to blame than the man who gambled all our futures and called the referendum in the first place because he couldnít control his own party?

Aye right enough! I guess I need to get blaming Jezza.

J

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 19:26
Quote:
CoochieCoo
You are right we have no idea what leave voters voted for because they were and still are clueless what they want!

This kind of arrogant comment makes my blood boil. Leave voters account for 51% of the voting population, some 17.4m people. Each one will have had their own reasons, some considered, some not.

If you really want to blame someone for not agreeing with you and then triggering this mess blame the sitting government at the time of the vote. The Brexit vote should have been proceeded by a plan produced by a working party/commission. Itís certainly not the populations fault that the pre vote planning and the process was so half ****sed.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 19:31
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Quote:
CoochieCoo
If Brexiteers voted thinking we would get a Norway or Switzerland then that does not tally with bringing back control. Both these deals cede control to the EU despite being non members. We were duped I say, duped!

The referendum question didn't mention "taking back control" so we have no idea what view Leave or Remain voters have on the issue of "taking back control".

There were lots of things not on the ballot paper but BoJo in a rallying speech said let's take back control and vote leave and it was the mantra of the leavers during the campaign.


You are right we have no idea what leave voters voted for because they were and still are clueless what they want!

As someone who voted remain I take exception to the assumption that most of those who voted to leave had no idea what they were voting for. It is an extremely arrogant view & a ludicrous assumption. The fact is that if the polls are to be believed most of those who voted to leave donít seem to be changing their view in the light of a torrent of alarmist news from remainers.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 20:03
Quote:
CoochieCoo
It looks to me that we are aiming for a no deal brexit and now TM can say well I did try for a deal but the brexiteers and DUP didn't want it! Yes Cameron is to blame for having the ref but he his hands were tied. However, more to blame is Corbyn who gave lip service to the Remain argument and the brexit leaders who didn't have a clue what they were advocating. 17m of us were duped!

CC that is so one blue-eyed it is laughable - the kind of tabloid stuff I would have expected to read in the Express Editorial

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 21:02
Did any leave campaigners say we could stay in the custom union / single market but still leave the EU...?

[twitter.com]

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 22:19
"Leave voters account for 51% of the voting population"

That's just not true. About 33 % of the voting population voted leave. About as many again, for many reasons but not least because the campaigns were utterly terrible, didn't cut at all.

Bath hammer, do you really think all of that 33% voted for this?

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 22:38
You gotta admire Theresa May. If I was her, I'd chuck it in and let them get on with it. The right wing (aka the dinosaur conservation society) stiff necked pals of the DUP have sabotaged all the efforts to get an agreement. IMVHO they are only focussed on a no deal solution - walk away, don't pay them any money. "Take back control"! Of what, pray?


p.s. Jeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister, but John McDonnell might be. Surprised you champagne socialist intelligentsia who post on the board havn't worked that one out yet! (Sm100)

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
05 December, 2017 22:42
I have asked the question many times and have never got a clear answer. What did leave voters vote for hard, soft, Norway, cliff edge or just voted in the hope that something good might come of it. Is it arrogant to say that leave voters were led by leaders with no plan and a clear vision of where we will end up. If so where is the plan now? Instead of berating me and other remainers and shouting foul, please advise us of where we are going because all I see is a complete and utter pigs breakfast with this brexit malarkey from all parties.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2017 22:48 by CoochieCoo.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 03:27
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle

I didn't say they coudn't do it, legally or constitutionally.

OK, so it is not flawed, nor a contradiction. They can diverge from the UK where it is constitutionally agreed they can diverge from the UK and they are arguing they shouldn't diverge from the UK where it is constitutionally agreed they cannot diverge from the UK.

They can only operate with the framework they're given.

Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Did any leave campaigners say we could stay in the custom union / single market but still leave the EU...?
[twitter.com]

ahahahaha... I was wondering when someone would post the link to this video again. Isn't this what you would call fake news?


Andrew Neil savages James McGrory of Open Britain over EU Single Market lies




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 03:52 by Substitute.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 03:48
Quote:
CoochieCoo
I have asked the question many times and have never got a clear answer. What did leave voters vote for hard, soft, Norway, cliff edge or just voted in the hope that something good might come of it.

I think you'll find some of us answered, did you answer what remain you expected?

Quote:
CoochieCoo
If so where is the plan now? Instead of berating me and other remainers and shouting foul, please advise us of where we are going because all I see is a complete and utter pigs breakfast with this brexit malarkey from all parties.

So you think a small group of elected officials, close to a small group of 'experts' and a smaller section of the media should not act on the expressed wishes of the voters, or should spin their way out of it for the 'good' of the country.


Just like the last 10 years, which has stuffed a load of people? Why the hell are we taking these people seriously?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 06:20
Quote:
Substitute
So you think a small group of elected officials, close to a small group of 'experts' and a smaller section of the media should not act on the expressed wishes of the voters, or should spin their way out of it for the 'good' of the country.

Just like the last 10 years, which has stuffed a load of people? Why the hell are we taking these people seriously?

Can you rephrase that please Substitute. Iím sure youíre making a good point but Iím not sure what it is.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 06:32
Quote:
annie blackthorn
You gotta admire Theresa May. If I was her, I'd chuck it in and let them get on with it. The right wing (aka the dinosaur conservation society) stiff necked pals of the DUP have sabotaged all the efforts to get an agreement. IMVHO they are only focussed on a no deal solution - walk away, don't pay them any money. "Take back control"! Of what, pray?
(Sm100)

I certainly wouldnít go along with what much of what the ďdinosaur conservation societyĒ say on many matters but on this they are totally consistent. They very much want a trade deal but ike all good negotiators they are prepared to walk away. The alternative is to water down the whole thing to make leaving completely pointless which wouldnít be enacting the will of the people. Their stiff necked pals in the DUP, despite their dreadful views on certain issues, have also been consistent in their view that NI is part of the UK & should be treated as such. It is better to look at what people actually say rather than throw generalised insults all around.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 07:18 by Bath Hammer.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 07:06
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 07:14
Quote:
DanWiley
Leave voters account for 51% of the voting population"
That's just not true. About 33 % of the voting population voted leave. About as many again, for many reasons but not least because the campaigns were utterly terrible, didn't cut at all.

Bath hammer, do you really think all of that 33% voted for this?

This is clearly intended to mean the percentage of those that voted, but I suspect you knew that already DanWiley. Nobody should give a rats **** about those that couldnít be bothered to get off theirs.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 07:22
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You may be right but you need to suspend your personal pole until an agreement is reached, assuming there is one. It is impossible to make assessments right in the middle of a very heated & sensitive negotiation. Itís where we end up which matters.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 07:22
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 07:48
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.

Like Teresa earlier this year! She found out that opinions had changed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 07:49 by hemington.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 08:10
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
CoochieCoo
I have asked the question many times and have never got a clear answer. What did leave voters vote for hard, soft, Norway, cliff edge or just voted in the hope that something good might come of it.

I think you'll find some of us answered, did you answer what remain you expected?

From memory you voted to leave and put your trust in the competence of the Government! I voted for the status quo and Cameron's negotiated opt outs.

You won and now we are in a mess. The leaders that led you to vote that way did not have a cohesive plan and were divided on how to achieve Brexit. IMO you voted for chaos and that seems to be where we are heading.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 08:29
I think its entirely possible that the public will vote to leave the EU again, the general population don't understand the implications of Brexit, I assume that the majority of leavers voted for change rather than a future outside the EU, fed up with austerity, threat of terrorism and immigration, none of which leaving the EU will fix without putting us back into the dark ages. My mother in law voted to leave because of a nostalgic view of Britain before we joined the EU and now the country is full of Romanian criminals.

You don't ask a child what they want to eat for dinner, because they'd ask for sweets. I know going against "the will of the people" would be political suicide but history will regard them as heroic.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:29
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.

We do that. It's called 'the next general election'.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:30
Stats suggest your mother in law shared the opinion of most leavers.

Could be you're the one who's out of touch.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:33
"Nobody should give a rats **** about those that couldnít be bothered to get off theirs."

I do and we should. Voters not turning out indicates a lack of engagement. The answer isn't to say "screw them" its to make politics more engaging. In this case, the campaigns were terrible I don't blame anyone who came to the conclusion "I just don't know" so didn't vote. I don't believe that someone that has come to that conclusion should be ignored, it's a legitimate position to have.


"Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like."

We do, at least every 5 years, regardless of whether I like the result or not. It's a good thing or are you suggesting we should have 1 GE and say "well that's settled let's never consider this again."

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:33
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.

We do that. It's called 'the next general election'.

If that's the case, the Liberals were the only major party at the last election to be pro remain and look how many votes they got!

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:37
More than they did at the previous general election?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:39
Quote:
DanWiley
"Nobody should give a rats **** about those that couldnít be bothered to get off theirs."
I do and we should. Voters not turning out indicates a lack of engagement. The answer isn't to say "screw them" its to make politics more engaging. In this case, the campaigns were terrible I don't blame anyone who came to the conclusion "I just don't know" so didn't vote. I don't believe that someone that has come to that conclusion should be ignored, it's a legitimate position to have.


"Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like."

We do, at least every 5 years, regardless of whether I like the result or not. It's a good thing or are you suggesting we should have 1 GE and say "well that's settled let's never consider this again."


Voter turnout for the Referendum was higher than most general elections, so more people did engage.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:41
"Stats suggest your mother in law shared the opinion of most leavers.

Could be you're the one who's out of touch."

That just emphasises why referendums are a bad idea. We should be making such decisions based on nostalgia and misinformation.

I slightly take back my "let's have another referendum position", I've got to maintain it a bit otherwise we'll just get the the will of (a small number of) the people nonsense ad infinitum. This really should be a matter for parliament, but apparently saying so is undemocratic in a parliamentary democracy.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:42
Quote:
by
I think its entirely possible that the public will vote to leave the EU again, the general population don't understand the implications of Brexit, I assume that the majority of leavers voted for change rather than a future outside the EU, fed up with austerity, threat of terrorism and immigration, none of which leaving the EU will fix without putting us back into the dark ages. My mother in law voted to leave because of a nostalgic view of Britain before we joined the EU and now the country is full of Romanian criminals.
You don't ask a child what they want to eat for dinner, because they'd ask for sweets. I know going against "the will of the people" would be political suicide but history will regard them as heroic.

I went to a forum that Nicky Morgan was on, one of her constituents told her she voted to leave because she wanted it to be like the 1970s again



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 09:43 by woodpecker.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 09:43
"Voter turnout for the Referendum was higher than most general elections, so more people did engage."

That's a different discussion. Whatever the outcome of that discussion, it doesn't let you say "screw those that didn't".

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 10:08
Quote:
hasta
More than they did at the previous general election?

The Liberal vote improved, but compare the combined Con and Lab pro Breit vote to the Lib Remain vote and you get much more than 51%.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 10:13
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quote:
hasta
More than they did at the previous general election?

The Liberal vote improved, but compare the combined Con and Lab pro Breit vote to the Lib Remain vote and you get much more than 51%.

I think I've said this before, but the fact that the labour party and the conservatives both said they wouldn't overturn the referendum doesn't mean that people who voted for them supported leaving.

I voted conservative as it's pointless to vote for the lib dems and I don't want Corbin anywhere near number 10.

Having said that, the current conservative government are a joke.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 10:16
Yes, the point of a general election being that it's not a referendum on a single subject. Also, demonstrably, people change their minds about who to vote for.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 10:44
Quote:
Boldangrey
Stats suggest your mother in law shared the opinion of most leavers.
Could be you're the one who's out of touch.

The age profile of the two camps is a far more telling statistic than anything

There are those who voted because of their past and those who voted because of their future

Nostalgia won, just



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 10:44 by gaz59.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 10:58
Quote:
hasta
Yes, the point of a general election being that it's not a referendum on a single subject. Also, demonstrably, people change their minds about who to vote for.


Agreed. My original response was to the Dan Wiley>Outside Bath>Hasta post which related to repeat Referenda/Gen Elections.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 11:09
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
Boldangrey
Stats suggest your mother in law shared the opinion of most leavers.
Could be you're the one who's out of touch.

The age profile of the two camps is a far more telling statistic than anything

There are those who voted because of their past and those who voted because of their future

Nostalgia won, just

Not so in my case and many others, I voted remain not for my future but my grandchildrens' future!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 11:36
The thing I dont get is the headbanger's obsession with signing free trade deals all around the world, are any of then in commerce? Business on the whole overwhelmingly wants to stay in the customs union and the single market.

Has Liam Fox got a KFC franchise?

 
Man from LA
Man from LA (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 12:00
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.

If there was only allowed to be one binding vote, then that would have been the 1975 vote and we wouldn't have had a 2nd EU referendum vote last year. If we had a 2nd referendum vote because things have changed since the 1st vote, then we can have a 3rd vote at any point because things have changed just as much since the 2nd vote, if not more. The crucial point in deciding whether there should be another referendum is the degree of change that has/will take place and the consequences for the UK, not the length of time involved. I've no doubt there will be a 3rd vote, it's just a matter of when.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 12:54
Quote:
Man from LA
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
DanWiley
I'd be amazed if "the will of the people" was to find us where we are now and where we look like we shall end up. I'm happy to ask them again though.

You mean vote again so we get it right next time.

Maybe we should take that stance at every general election when we get the result you don't like.

If there was only allowed to be one binding vote, then that would have been the 1975 vote and we wouldn't have had a 2nd EU referendum vote last year. If we had a 2nd referendum vote because things have changed since the 1st vote, then we can have a 3rd vote at any point because things have changed just as much since the 2nd vote, if not more. The crucial point in deciding whether there should be another referendum is the degree of change that has/will take place and the consequences for the UK, not the length of time involved. I've no doubt there will be a 3rd vote, it's just a matter of when.

You're probably right and if our lazy entitled youth take the same approach as last time then the result will be the same.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 14:28
Quote:
DanWiley
"Voter turnout for the Referendum was higher than most general elections, so more people did engage."
That's a different discussion. Whatever the outcome of that discussion, it doesn't let you say "screw those that didn't".

Tell that to a Corbyn government...

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 14:38
Quote:
CoochieCoo

Not so in my case and many others, I voted remain not for my future but my grandchildrens' future!

Oh... So Leave voters internationally voted against their grandchildrens future.

Shame people weren't so caring when they voted on successive governments ensuring the young will pay in more to receive less and cover the expenses of those generations.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 15:25
Quote:
DanWiley
"Nobody should give a rats **** about those that couldnít be bothered to get off theirs."

I do and we should. Voters not turning out indicates a lack of engagement. The answer isn't to say "screw them" its to make politics more engaging. In this case, the campaigns were terrible I don't blame anyone who came to the conclusion "I just don't know" so didn't vote. I don't believe that someone that has come to that conclusion should be ignored, it's a legitimate position to have.


Do you really think that the 27% that didn't participate in the Brexit vote cared deeply about the issue but just didn't know which box to tick so didn't bother to vote at all ? Even though one option was clearly 'no change, leave things as they are' ?

I would hazard a guess that a very small percentage of the 'no shows' had logistical issues that prevented them getting to the polling stations but the majority just couldn't be bothered for one reason or another.

Anyhow 73% is a very respectable turnout.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 16:26
My point was about people who don't vote in general, not specific to this referendum. We should give a rats @#$%& about these people.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 16:48
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
DanWiley
"Nobody should give a rats **** about those that couldnít be bothered to get off theirs."

I do and we should. Voters not turning out indicates a lack of engagement. The answer isn't to say "screw them" its to make politics more engaging. In this case, the campaigns were terrible I don't blame anyone who came to the conclusion "I just don't know" so didn't vote. I don't believe that someone that has come to that conclusion should be ignored, it's a legitimate position to have.


Do you really think that the 27% that didn't participate in the Brexit vote cared deeply about the issue but just didn't know which box to tick so didn't bother to vote at all ? Even though one option was clearly 'no change, leave things as they are' ?

I would hazard a guess that a very small percentage of the 'no shows' had logistical issues that prevented them getting to the polling stations but the majority just couldn't be bothered for one reason or another.

Anyhow 73% is a very respectable turnout.

Beergoggles, your post has prompted me to confess a guilty secret. Although I have presented myself as a remainer, I actually got stuck in Shanghai airport for about 6 hours and by the time I got home the polling booth had shut!

So my vote would be there next time, also the bloke who was on the trip with me.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 17:00
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
CoochieCoo

Not so in my case and many others, I voted remain not for my future but my grandchildrens' future!

Oh... So Leave voters internationally voted against their grandchildrens future.

Shame people weren't so caring when they voted on successive governments ensuring the young will pay in more to receive less and cover the expenses of those generations.

Luckily so far they have been caring in keeping the Labour Party out that will keep this country in worse hock than brexit for generations!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 17:08
The government has not carried out any impact assessments of leaving the EU on the UK economy, (Brexit Secretary David Davis).

Says it all, really. I'm glad I got my money out cos this is going to be ugly.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 17:58
Another example of the clueless leading the clueless into the abyss!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 18:23
Quote:
joethefanatic
The government has not carried out any impact assessments of leaving the EU on the UK economy, (Brexit Secretary David Davis).

On a related note Ken Clarke confessed he never bothered reading the Maastricht treaty before he voted to accept the terms therein. Also on a related note, everyone with a "dog in the fight" as it were has published their position paper on the likely impact of Brexit.

This is a fluid situation and markets are dynamic; by the time these would have been published events would have moved on. I don't think we are short of analysis...



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joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 19:28
Quote:
Clarkey3k
This is a fluid situation and markets are dynamic; by the time these would have been published events would have moved on. I don't think we are short of analysis...

Which means you keep doing them not that you just throw your hands up in the air and say "Its too hard".

If one of my people had come to me with a proposal for a radical change in how we do business but with no impact assessment of the likely consequences of the proposal, he or she would have been out of the door so fast their head would have been spinning and my Head of HR would have been be in my office answering very pointed questions on how we could make sure we never hired anyone like that again.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
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joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 20:36
"The cabinet has yet to have a full discussion on what should be the governmentís preferred ďend state positionĒ for the UK after Brexit". Chancellor Phillip Hammond.

Words fail me. Probably temporarily



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2017 20:37 by joethefanatic.

 
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CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 21:14
Words don't fail me Joe pure unadulterated chaos and clueless. Come on brexiteers get your act together if you can!



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Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 23:22
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Words don't fail me Joe pure unadulterated chaos and clueless. Come on brexiteers get your act together if you can!

Phillip Hammond was a remainer. Just like Theresa May, the leader of the government.

 
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joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT/ Brexit
06 December, 2017 23:42
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Words don't fail me Joe pure unadulterated chaos and clueless. Come on brexiteers get your act together if you can!

Phillip Hammond was a remainer. Just like Theresa May, the leader of the government.

I'm not sure of the point you are making. Leaver or remainer, Hammond is a member of the cabinet who have not yet discussed "their preferred end state position" for a discussion which is supposed to start within 2 weeks. How can you effectively negotiate if you don't know what you are trying to acheive?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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