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Woodster
Woodster (IP Logged)

OT - The Ashes
27 November, 2017 20:11
Can't believe there is no Ashes thread so...

That was a frustrating first test, in hindsight, with the pitch as it was, probably our best chance of winning at the Gabba for a long time. Won the toss and had the chance to post a biggish first innings but just couldn't manage it.

On to Adelaide, I expect the same team assuming all fit as I'm not sure we have better options?

Great to have cricket on again.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 06:05
Journalists and summarisers putting an awful lot of weight on England winning in Adelaide because of the anticipated conditions.

I just donít see it myself; our team lacks form, fitness and pace and is going to struggle this winter comewhat may.

(Happy to be proven wrong!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/11/2017 06:05 by @Hydor18.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 07:08
Quote:
@Hydor18
Journalists and summarisers putting an awful lot of weight on England winning in Adelaide because of the anticipated conditions.
I just donít see it myself; our team lacks form, fitness and pace and is going to struggle this winter comewhat may.

(Happy to be proven wrong!)

+1 There are too many factors working against us. The pitches mostly favour fast attacking bowlers. Ours are either past their best (Anderson),injured or ineffective without the right conditions. Their spinner is far more effective than any of ours. We really need our two standout batsmen, Cooke & Roote, to stand out. So far compared to Smith they seem like minnows, though that might change (Sm100) One of our few match winners couldnít control his temper so is twiddling his thumbs at home. The stupidity of behaving badly doesnít seem to have been taken on board by others e.g. Bairstow. If we donít win in Adelaide, likely, it could well be a whitewash. Probably not something to stay up for? I also donít enjoy the BT coverage. Sky were excellent for cricket, particularly the Verdict programme with Charles Coalville & Bob Willis. This has been dumped leaving an absence of comment & analysis. I donít like the BT commentators, which is very Aussie dominated. Howevoer, who am I to judge as unlike anyone else on here I like Stuart Barnes & Dewi Morris (Sm6)

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 10:57
Lots of cricket still to play with two evenly matched teams (neither great).

Next steps are for England to call up Jack Leach from Somerset and play Moeen Ali as a batting alrounder, and Avon and Somerset Police to get off their backsides and make a decision possibly permitting Ben Stokes to ride in on his charger and give England a boost.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 11:05
Think it would be tricky to consider Stokes.
Firstly can't see a no charge outcome. Whatever the circumstances/provocation it did look like blows landed and therefore actual assault.
Secondly if he was cleared to play can you imagine the abuse.
Better focus on the team they have and building spirit.

FLAP

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 11:37
Quote:
Beergoggles
Lots of cricket still to play with two evenly matched teams (neither great).
Next steps are for England to call up Jack Leach from Somerset and play Moeen Ali as a batting alrounder, and Avon and Somerset Police to get off their backsides and make a decision possibly permitting Ben Stokes to ride in on his charger and give England a boost.

If he hasnít already been selected they arenít going to call up this chap from Somerset. We have another chap in the squad anyway who did quite well for NSW if they think another spinner is the way forward. Obviously we are capable of beating this Aussie team if we can remove Smith but I feel the Adelaide test is crucial. If they win that comfortably theyíll really be on a roll & difficult to stop.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 November, 2017 11:58
Ali is a good batting number 8, when he is fit to bowl his best spin. He is not a number 6, when he is not fit to bowl.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
06 December, 2017 09:17
So batting in the evening was supposed to be harder than in the first session of the day - is that why 12 wickets fell in the first sessions of the two second innings?

Bayliss is having a laugh when he says England can compete with this very average Aussie side. One decent day in 10 so far for England, and not a sniff of an English batsman getting a century..

It's looking very much like another 5-0 humiliation.

Still the in laws will be enjoying it!

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
06 December, 2017 09:29
Very very frustrating. Changes to the line-up needed imv. Plunkett needs to be brought in as well as an opener to replace Cook who just can't be relied on as a senior batsmen. Vince is a real shame as when he plays well he's beautiful to watch! Seems like he's just not consistent enough though.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
06 December, 2017 10:36
After all the huffing and puffing up of the last 36 hours, all weíve offered in the series to date is Anderson taking wickets in English conditions, and looking like a county trundler in Australian conditions. When Malan, Vince and Stoneman are vindicating their selection, and remain essentially unchallenged for their places, by scoring three 50s in 12 innings you know weíre headed for 0-5.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
06 December, 2017 11:00
I hear that Malan, Vince and Stoneman have signed for Exeter next season.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
06 December, 2017 11:33
Vince is class but his shot selection has been poor so far. I would rather have that in a player than a mediocre batsman who chooses the right shot. He can learn and improve, too promising to drop IMO.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
07 December, 2017 11:21
We are very poor. I hear myself asking for Plunkett and Wood, but Plunkett has never been convincing at Test level and Wood is injured and not up to full pace. I see Leach is playing in the next match, so he might get a go. We need a Chris Broad or Tim Robinson to appear out of nowhere and score a hundred in each of the next 3 tests.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
08 December, 2017 00:39
5 0

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
08 December, 2017 06:07
Yep, the opportunity to win the second test was handed to them by Steve Smith and they comprehensively dropped it. The WACA isn't what it was but with no swing and little seam in standard Oz conditions, Broad and Anderson are going out there with just their d1cks in their hands (to quote The Godfather). And the others are no threat to Smith and Warner.

5-0

Plus I get the ABC coverage here as well as TMS and I flick between the two to get the different viewpoints. The Aussie commentators are sorry for us. Its pretty galling.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 09:02
What a fantastic final session for England on day 1 of the 3rd test, the 5th wicket partnership has doubled the England total. If we can finish the day without losing another wicket if will be our day. Come on boys...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 09:12
A century scored, hurrah!!



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 09:53
Well batted Malan and Bairstow!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 11:53
It is crucial that we don't settle for this. We must start again tomorrow with the intention of building a huge total if we can, bat all day again, tire their bowlers and batsmen. We won't win this in a 4 innings game IMO, most likely way to win or draw is to score really big and hope the wicket turns from Day 3 onwards.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 12:16
Quote:
B4thB4ck
It is crucial that we don't settle for this. We must start again tomorrow with the intention of building a huge total if we can, bat all day again, tire their bowlers and batsmen. We won't win this in a 4 innings game IMO, most likely way to win or draw is to score really big and hope the wicket turns from Day 3 onwards.

Fully agree with you B4thB4ck, we are in a good position and I don't want to see it squandered by carelessness on day 2. Hoping for 450-500 total...

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 12:17
The pitch looks a belter. 550 or more should be par. A collapse is never far away with these guys.

 
Woodster
Woodster (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
14 December, 2017 17:34
How crucial was winning the toss! Imagine if Aus had won it and finished in a similarly strong position with big runs on the board.

Must press home the advantage but first things first bat very carefully until lunchtime, take the shine and hardness off the new ball then cash in.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 04:45
Thought so. It is not just about skill.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 07:32
Well, woke up this morning hoping to find us still batting and over 500.... Making 403 isn't enough to put the pressure on with this pitch, could be a long day for our bowlers.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 07:37
It's strange that an England batting collapse is so predictable.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 08:30
Depressing.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 11:10
Deeply disappointing. I can hardly muster the hope for a bowling performance to maintain some advantage, sigh....



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
15 December, 2017 14:57
Itís far more likely that we will wake up tomorrow morning to find them with a substantial first innings lead. Weíve failed in this series because we have no fast bowlers, our two stand out batsmen have not performed, we are lacking a top class spinner & our usually effective lower middle order hasnít contributed. Too many crosses to bear.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
16 December, 2017 10:37
Can we all start praying for rain please? Sooner rather than later...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 12:47
I reckon we're still in this boys!

Dear oh dear oh dear...

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 12:52
Words fail me...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 15:14
If, when the tour party was picked, you'd know that Stoneman, Vince and Malan would average 32, 30 and 50 respectively, you'd assume that the team as a whole would be performing way above expectations.

Those 3 were the 3 weakest (or least proven) links in the starting XI. But it's been the nailed-on selections who have let us down - Cook, Woakes, Broad and Moeen have been abysmal. Only Bairstow and Anderson have performed to par.

Next summer is going to be a massive test of Bayliss and Root.Cook and Broad look up to their sell-by dates. Jimmy is going to be feeling very old by the time this series ends. Bayliss will have made yet another ridiculous pronouncement that Moeen is the 4th choice spinner and opening batsman.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 18:06
Its really important to keep positive despite the series loss, still 2 to play and all the white ball cricket games to come. Pride can be retained but only if the players take to the pitch in the right frame of mind.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 18:49
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Its really important to keep positive despite the series loss, still 2 to play and all the white ball cricket games to come. Pride can be retained but only if the players take to the pitch in the right frame of mind.

Then its probably just as well the white ball captain is Eoin Morgan cos Joe Root's broken.

5-0 I fear because England don't have the batting or bowling firepower. Ben Stokes would not have made the difference.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
18 December, 2017 19:44
England are an entirely different team at home where their bowlers can expect more help from the pitches & conditions. I can see the likes of Jamie Porter being a natural successor to Anderson. We do not more real pace though & for that we need the likes of Wood to stay fit or younger bowlers to break through. I doubt that the Aussie pace attack would be anything like as effective in England. Can see Cooke retiring from international cricket & focusing on Essex so we need to hope that Habib has got last season out of his system & can realise his potential.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 00:32
We donít need one fast bowler we need THREE hideously fast fast bowlers simultaneously. And tell ECB to forget about playing actual cricket until June. Plus, didnít we nearly play an internationalsomething or other in October? Who are these T*ss*rs who pretend to organise our game?

SQUAWKprobably

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 03:51
We donít just need ďhideously fast bowlersĒ. Anderson & Broad have been pretty successful over the years but canít shoulder the burden for ever. ďHideousĒ pace is needed in Australia however as well as spin so we need to unearth both.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 08:12
Quote:
Bath Hammer
We donít just need ďhideously fast bowlersĒ. Anderson & Broad have been pretty successful over the years but canít shoulder the burden for ever. ďHideousĒ pace is needed in Australia however as well as spin so we need to unearth both.

Agree BH, 'fast' might work on Oz where condition don't vary much but variety needed. Bowlers need something to bowl at, Cook and Root have been poor and have ceded the pressure to Australia and Smith has just filled his boots. England have been in a couple of positions where they could have scored 400+ but have just rolled over.

I'm not at all sure this Ozzie side are that good, we'll see but one thing is for sure, you will not win test matches with a limited over approach to batting!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 09:44
There's a whole load of why-oh-whying about the county system. But historically, England just doesn't produce genuine quicks. They come along as one-offs - Tyson, Trueman, Snow, Willis, Malcolm - but rarely in pairs, let alone in threesomes. Flintoff, Harmison, Jones is the only trio who could all hit 90mph that i can think of, and they played 3 or 4 tests together.

England aren't actually that far off this Australia side, but the modern trend is for results in Test matches. And when matches can't be won, the side that is behind just tends to collapse in a heap - which skews the perception of an enormous difference between the sides.

Witness England, last summer, getting absolutely thumped by South Africa one week and then winning the next two comfortably. The margins of those 4 tests were: 211 runs (England); 340 runs (SA); 239 (England); 177 (England).

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 10:14
The career of a big fast bowler is similar to that of a rugby forward, always prone to serious injury. Bowling at 90mph + puts a huge strain on the body. A promising bowler growing up today will look at the financial rewards of T20 cricket around the world and adjust their skills to suit that. To attract fast bowlers into test cricket the ECB need to be sure that they have all the right carrots dangling in all the right places.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
19 December, 2017 19:09
Quote:
B4thB4ck
The career of a big fast bowler is similar to that of a rugby forward, always prone to serious injury. Bowling at 90mph + puts a huge strain on the body. A promising bowler growing up today will look at the financial rewards of T20 cricket around the world and adjust their skills to suit that. To attract fast bowlers into test cricket the ECB need to be sure that they have all the right carrots dangling in all the right places.

Agreed. Tymal Mills is a very smart man.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
20 December, 2017 07:23
We have had plenty of fast bowlers but they do not seem to progress in the county system or on the Lions Tours. The Dutch guy at Somerset was rapid but wild, Jamie Overton has a poor county record, Alex Tudor never made it, Chris Lewis totally lost the plot.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
20 December, 2017 09:20
Fast bowlers need wickets to bowl on, difficult to prepare with our weather!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
20 December, 2017 20:49
All those guys - like Steven Finn - bowl at English 90 mph, which actually always turns out to be 83.7 mph.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
22 December, 2017 00:19
Well you are more or less agreeing with me without knowing it.
Ditch matches contrived to happen in Apr/May and Sept and let some young guys just let rip.
So a ,systemí that does not produce genuine quickes might easily be mutated to one that does.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
22 December, 2017 00:20
PS

Hop

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 December, 2017 08:06
I know itís too late but what a great feeling for an Essex man to rejoice in Alistair Cookís fantastic innings. Make no mistake, the Aussies would have loved a 5-0 whitewash.
We now need to win this one to save some embarrassment

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 December, 2017 10:07
Quote:
Bath Hammer
I know itís too late but what a great feeling for an Essex man to rejoice in Alistair Cookís fantastic innings. Make no mistake, the Aussies would have loved a 5-0 whitewash.
We now need to win this one to save some embarrassment

Still needs to be won but magnificent innings, I really hope he gets 250+ and England get over 500 simply for morale.

You do feel that the sides are not really that far apart though, perhaps Smith is the difference.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 December, 2017 10:53
Quote:
Bath Hammer
I know itís too late but what a great feeling for an Essex man to rejoice in Alistair Cookís fantastic innings. Make no mistake, the Aussies would have loved a 5-0 whitewash.
We now need to win this one to save some embarrassment

Quite right my dear old thing and I look forward to Blowers talking about it when I see him at the Corsham Pound in April 2018...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
28 December, 2017 11:46
Brilliant innings for Cook. Fantastic and also well batted from Broad.

However... can't help but feel that cook does this too often: innings after innings of poor performances barely scraping into double figures only to hit a double century on the brink of being dropped.

Still, with that little grump out of the way, well batted Cooky hope you reach 250 and spark a bit of form.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
21 January, 2018 23:00
OK, not the Ashes I know but great to see the ODI team win the series in Oz and in some style too.

Next objective, win 5 - 0.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
21 January, 2018 23:20
Yep, great result, I think we would have done better if the Test side played in a Test manner rather than a 1 day manner.

Australia have the reverse problem, playing 1 day cricket in Test style. Poor form I know but I actually enjoyed Smith's dismissal yesterday!

Lets go for 5-0 as you say.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
21 January, 2018 23:39
Quote:
shipwrecked
Poor form I know but I actually enjoyed Smith's dismissal yesterday!

I know how you feel. Prising him out has been almost impossible. A big disappointment over the past year has been that from having considered Root, Kohli & Smith as equally outstanding the last two have now left Root way behind. Whist he looks a decent batsman the other two seem super-human.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: OT - The Ashes
23 January, 2018 08:02
Can't be bothered to start a new thread, but well done Kyle Edmund!



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19


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