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MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

10 team Prem?
28 November, 2017 23:23
Apparently, PRL are discussing reducing the Prem to 10 teams with 2 up 2 down to a 10 team Championship also run (and part funded) by PRL. It makes sense.

[www.theguardian.com]?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/11/2017 23:23 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
28 November, 2017 23:25
It really does make sense. I suspect that it won't pass the PRL board though, it probably needs to be unanimous.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 04:33
Huzzah.
After more than a decade of championing the idea.
Now, how about re-arranging the AWC to I could the championship teams whilst were at it, with restrictions on age/experience levels...
Too much?



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 07:35
How about rearranging the AW cup to the bin? smiling smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
shendy (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 07:43
On a practical note, how do they make up the the lost revenue?
A 10 team Prem would mean 2 fewer home games, along with whatever changes to the AW Cup - while it's not a great competition, everyone is guaranteed 2 home games out of it and a traditional knockout cup risks clubs having none.

 
Omba
Omba (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 09:15
2 fewer home games?....I look forward to the reduction in my ST price...

Can someone pass me my coat

 
redmix
redmix (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 09:15
Quote:
shendy
On a practical note, how do they make up the the lost revenue?

Season ticket price goes up with inflation (not reduced due to the lower number of matches). Price of a match day ticket goes up by 10% plus inflation or so to cover the lost revenue.
Fewer matches to watch live might actually increase the number of fans per match.

 
redmix
redmix (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 09:21
Quote:
shendy
On a practical note, how do they make up the the lost revenue?

Season ticket price goes up with inflation (not reduced due to the lower number of matches). Price of a match day ticket goes up by 10% plus inflation or so to cover the lost revenue.
Fewer matches to watch live might actually increase the number of fans per match.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 09:40
Surely our price point is set at a level that increasing it means fewer will come and we get --less- revenue?

If not, why not?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 11:24
Isn't this possible move to 10 teams which reduces the league fixtures by 4, help with the move to a proposed RFU longer season but reduces the games players are expected to play. Many have indicated a longer season and more games is not on, but the proposed reduction for the internationals would help their welfare, meaning we always have the top players (if not injured) available for the league games as well.

Seems a win win situation to me, apart from the possible loss of revenue from league games. This could be overcome if the present AW Competition was beefed up (more prize money or a Euro place even) with a real incentive for clubs to have stronger squads. (Definite bonus for Bath). By restricting any player to say 18 league, 3 AIs, 5 6 Nations internationals, 9 Euro and possibly 3 league play off games, would mean 38 games a season. Probably a sensible maximum would be say 36, leaving 16 weeks of no games per annum, but with injuries I doubt if anyone would play that many. Hopefully a better second tier competition with TV money would mean bigger crowds and similar revenue.

Whatever happens, with the move to the extended season, the amount of top level games for the best players is going to have to reduce as the players physically cannot perform at those levels for so long.

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 11:29
The Times reported yesterday that there was the possibility of a ring fenced 14 team premiership again, with fhe chance of entering/leaving every 4/5 years...

 
Mike Parton
TOKS (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 11:35
Quote:
Omba
2 fewer home games?....I look forward to the reduction in my ST price...

To my mind seeing international players playing more for my club than they currently do would more than make up for the proportionate increase in ST price.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 12:17
"The Times reported yesterday that there was the possibility of a ring fenced 14 team premiership again, with fhe chance of entering/leaving every 4/5 years"

Other than people who want to make money out of the sport (fools) who wants this? You surely don't believe the nonsense that teams are going to start throwing the ball around now because they've nothing to lose?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 12:21
"To my mind seeing international players playing more for my club than they currently do would more than make up for the proportionate increase in ST price."

Why would they play more? Surely less if anything? The number of internationals is going to stay the same and with fewer AP games and the idea being to reduce the number of games played by these people the number of AP games they play will reduce.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 13:08
If there are four fewer prem games they're less likely to conflict with internationals.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 13:40
I don't see how that helps? Let's say with 22 games there are 4 conflicts so a international can only play 18 games. We reduce the number of games to 18, so there are no conflicts, and now the international can only player 18 AP games. If there are more conflicts, then there's still going to be conflicts. If there are fewer then its actually got worse.

TOKS isn't going to see his internationals in any more AP games.

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 14:16
Quote:
DanWiley
"The Times reported yesterday that there was the possibility of a ring fenced 14 team premiership again, with fhe chance of entering/leaving every 4/5 years"
Other than people who want to make money out of the sport (fools) who wants this? You surely don't believe the nonsense that teams are going to start throwing the ball around now because they've nothing to lose?

The argument put forward in the article was that there are only 13 clubs that currently can afford to play in the Premiership, plus Yorkshire. Yorkshire are currently investing in facilities rather than playing squad as they can’t afford to compete with Bristol, so why waste the money this year.
It also questioned the “Exeter” argument, as when they came up the Premiership salary cap was much lower and therefore less of a gap to the Championship. Currently they said most Championship clubs spend around £1million compared to up to £8.5 million in the Prem, a massive gap for anyone other than the recently relegated club to manage.
Yes, there was an argument about freedom from relegation and defensive rugby, but also the chance to give more youngsters the opportunity, rather than buying in old campaigners to try to survive.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 15:26
The idea that there are 13 (+1) clubs that can afford to play in the AP suggests to me that the current situation is about right. I don't see why that is an argument to pick a set of teams and then draw a line under that?

I also don't see why the solution to the situation being virtually ringfenced is to actually ringfence it?

"Yes, there was an argument about freedom from relegation and defensive rugby, but also the chance to give more youngsters the opportunity, rather than buying in old campaigners to try to survive."

I don't buy that either. There's plenty of pathways for youngster to build experience and generally the squads of the premiership seem well balanced: old, young, local, imported. Seems good to me. Do I really want to go out and watch a bunch of younger, less well honed players?

But, dcsh, I'm guessing you're in favour of it, so tell me what's the appeal. I genuinely don't see it. It just feels like we're making a thing we all really want to be competitive, less so.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 16:18
If you sell out every week then fewer games are lost revenue - unless you increase prices. If you don't sell out then you can potentially cover it as the scarcity will drive more fans to allow you to sell out.

The converse is true - Rugby Championship games have increased in number... and have stopped selling out.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 16:42
The Rugby Championship is a bit different though isn't it? Assuming its a bit like the AIs or 6ns I'd think a typical punter would go to one match in the series, so if you reduce the number of games in the series the demand will go up and visa versa.

If you typically had a season ticket to the series or just went to every game, as I think happens more in the AP, putting less games on just means everyone gets one less game, they don't go to an extra game to make up for it.

I really doubt there's any clubs out there who aren't pricing to pretty close the optimum level to maximise revenue. If they put there prices up, sufficiently fewer will come to mean they get less overall and likewise if they put their prices down they won't get enough extra people to make up the short fall. Ok there's a few other factors, you might sell low for future growth, but generally if they are not doing that then they are almost negligent financially.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 18:11
NFL has real scarcity - only 8 home games per season.

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 18:17
Quote:
DanWiley
But, dcsh, I'm guessing you're in favour of it, so tell me what's the appeal. I genuinely don't see it. It just feels like we're making a thing we all really want to be competitive, less so.

Nope, I was just saying what had been in a major newspaper at the same time as another was suggesting a smaller premiership.

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: 10 team Prem?
29 November, 2017 18:19
Quote:
hasta
NFL has real scarcity - only 8 home games per season.
yes, but the game last forever! 😉


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