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BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:12

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:13
Hardly surprising. Should have gone last season. Wonder if West will go to - probably should.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:17
No mention of him in the article so I would guess so?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:25
Every club in the Prem is going to sniff around Harry M now.

 
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JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:26
The saints have been on the slide for a while now but I still find it a bit Ďfootballí when coaches/DORís are sacked mid season. Could be a few players looking to go- Lawes would be great for us as would Francis and Mallinder Jr as mentioned above.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:28
West staying on with Dickens as interims.

I'd expect any new head coach/director of rugby to bring in their own team.

A shame. He's a good bloke, but clearly, things had gone stale. I'd imagine he'll find another decent job in the not t

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:40
I doubt West will survive long term.

Some I know at Saints see him as more of the problem than JM.


PG

 
MESSAGES->author
St_Bart (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 11:47
Unfortunately the elephant's still in the room and hasn't yet gone West.
Harry signed a new contract to 2020 in late October, and Piers Francis is also in a long term contract. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if Lawes were to leave as he's Northampton born and bred - a true world class player.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:02
George Ford signed a new contract about 3 months before his dad was sacked. So I wouldn't count on that.

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:11
Quote:
St_Bart
Unfortunately the elephant's still in the room and hasn't yet gone West.
Harry signed a new contract to 2020 in late October, and Piers Francis is also in a long term contract. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if Lawes were to leave as he's Northampton born and bred - a true world class player.

Courtney Lawes is from London mate, stop claiming us cockneys as one of your own.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:38
I've heard that Tom Wood has reluctantly offered to take on the role of Head Coach himself.
"We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. If I was asked to do it for the benefit of the team, I'd consider it very carefully and probably front up."



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 12:41 by Which Tyler.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:40
I wonder what Dan Biggar thinks of all of this...

 
MESSAGES->author
shendy (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:46
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)

Courtney Lawes is from London mate, stop claiming us cockneys as one of your own.

Born there, but didn't grow up there.



There ain't no Sanity Clause

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:54
Quote:
shendy
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)

Courtney Lawes is from London mate, stop claiming us cockneys as one of your own.

Born there, but didn't grow up there.

He's not Northampton 'born and bred' though, as St_Bart stated

Sorry the pedant in me couldn't ignore that smiling smiley



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 12:54
Quote:
shendy
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)

Courtney Lawes is from London mate, stop claiming us cockneys as one of your own.

Born there, but didn't grow up there.

Yes, I think that he was responding to the Ďborn and bredí comment.

Either way, we couldnít get him as a marquee and he would cost too much otherwise so itís not going to happen IMO.

[goddam predictive text]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 12:58 by BathMatt53.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 13:03
Quote:
Which Tyler
I've heard that Tom Wood has reluctantly offered to take on the role of Head Coach himself.
"We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. If I was asked to do it for the benefit of the team, I'd consider it very carefully and probably front up."

http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=267

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 13:24
Thinking further, and given Tab's departure leaving us light on coaches...
A] Would we be happy with Jim as Head Coach under Todd?
Has been there and done that at the top, with silverware on his CV.
May be too forwards focussed as a crew (I know he was a FB, but he coached he's for forwards dominance).
Had everything going for him to build a legacy over them last 3 years, but squandered it all.
Grew stale at Saints, but built them up, with most grumbling being related to West rather than himself (similar to grumblings against Farrell versus Lancaster with England)

B] Given that any new HC will want his own crew, could this be a chance to talk to Dickens?
He looks to be a really good coach in the making, and has coached both defense and attack with some success (whilst being let down by the areas he wasn't coaching).
It would be a step up for him to HC, but he'll also have half a season at it under his belt as of this summer.


Personally I would be happy to talk to both, with Jim being expected to acknowledge where he failed with a plan to not make that mistake again, Dickens would be my preferred choice.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 13:38 by Which Tyler.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 13:25
I don't see Lawes, Hartley or any really of the big name players at Saints immediately becoming available. It is more likely some of the bit part players or less first team guys who were previously - I'm think your Ken Pisi types - may be moved on as are less worth their salt now than in previous years.

Shame for Mallinder seems a good bloke and all sources seem to suggest it is those he is working with that are more problematic than he is. Nonetheless, 10 years is a good stint and he will be able to find a good job with his experience. Someone like Cockers seems to be doing a good job in Edinburgh after a fresh start so I am sure there won't be an issue for him.



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 14:06
Jim will be able to find a new job-especially if he is prepared to travel.

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 19:37 by P G Tips.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 14:30
Errrrhm
Courtney Lawes is not a Londoner. He went to the boys grammar school in Northampton and has been with Saints ever since.

Very sad re. Mallinder and I too had heard that West was more of the issue/problem - however as Bath has had approx. 8 head Coaches since 2003 I don't think we are in a position to make any comment at all. (When adding up on fingers quickly my sums may be inaccurate).



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
redmix
redmix (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 14:46
Mallinder has been a dead man walking for a while now. Even if he has been let down by those around him, as the DoR not taking care of the problems around him ultimately made him the problem.

I also think he's another one who tried to put his own son too much to the fore. Young Mallinder just isn't a 10, and whilst he may have had to play there due to injuries he still played there too much.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 17:59
Most prem clubs would surely be more than happy to have Harry M on board.
I heard a couple of years ago now, that many wanted the Head Coach to have his son in the 1st team, but Dad refused as he didn't feel he wanted to be accused of nepotism. (Unlike some). So Harry had to wait. So don't get nasty about this. We've had quite enough unpleasantness at Bath over the past few years to know how destructive it can be.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
MESSAGES->author
shendy (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 18:38
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)
Quote:
shendy
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)

Courtney Lawes is from London mate, stop claiming us cockneys as one of your own.

Born there, but didn't grow up there.

He's not Northampton 'born and bred' though, as St_Bart stated

Sorry the pedant in me couldn't ignore that smiling smiley

Sorry, I was skim reading at lunchtime and missed the "born" bit.



There ain't no Sanity Clause

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
12 December, 2017 23:42
The Malinder dismissal take an interesting turn with Mike Ford a contender for the position.

Good luck with that one Saints!

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 08:54
A move can help - look at Farrell. However, O'Shea and Catt aren't having the best of times in Italy. EJ was also poor at Sarries and at club level in OZ. Saints are a bit like us- not as good as the sum of all their parts. Could Mallinder be an attack coach for us to look at?

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 09:41
Well, we could look at him, but doubt very much he would look at us!



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 10:45
Would have thought it is too early for O'Shea and Catt to contemplate any move as they appear to be trying to rebuild the Italian team and introduce lots of new practises. Anyway, it cannot be too bad living in such a wonderful country with all that sunshine, food and wine.

I seriously don't think M would add much more to us as an attack coach. He hasn't been able to fashion much recently in that respect at Saints with some excellent players.

I think some Southern Hemisphere thinking and guidance is what we need, to complement Todd's efforts. But what do I know?

Of those in England, what about Walder he seems to be working wonders at Newcastle or the ex Glaws full back whose name escapes me who is at Quins?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 10:49
Certainly Zebre and Benetton have improved this season, and I think O'Shea has oversight for that too...

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:02
The guy I was thinking of was Mark Mapletoft. IIRR he played a game or two for us as well.

 
Tricky=Legend
Tricky=Legend (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:07
I'm pretty sure that Worcester would be top of the list. Gary Gold leaving, and based in the Midlands. He wouldn't even have to move house! Perfect fit.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:22
Agree Tricky- Mallinder to Worcester loos quite likely.

Ford may be chosen by Saints but they could equally opt for Lancaster -although that would cue tons of regular mockery from Tigers' board!

PG

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:35
Mallinder to McWorcester Scottish? Wouldnít this limit his ability to procure (and play) who he wants?

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:38
Cockerill to Saints would just be too good. With a glint in his eye, he might fancy the challenge, with one game a season in mind! But Lancaster to Saints makes sense and, again, would be great to wind up the Tigers!

I wonder if Mallinder would be willing to take a slight step back and become an attack/skills coach? I think he'd be a great fit amongst our coaches, potentially the missing piece, which would allow him to sit out of the spotlight for a few years, before taking a head coach role again.

I'm not sure why he'd be interested in the Worcester job, when they are club that's almost perennially in turmoil with a raft of top class players (rumoured) to be leaving.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 11:43
Lancaster would be a bad move for him, Leinster and Saints.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 13:17
Quote:
Bathovalballer
The guy I was thinking of was Mark Mapletoft. IIRR he played a game or two for us as well.

I remember him playing for Rugby on their little pitch in Rugby against the might of Guscott's Bath when Rugby were in the 1st Division or whatever it was called then (probably 25+ years ago) Mapletoft was by far their best player.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 14:40
Quote:
hasta
Every club in the Prem is going to sniff around Harry M now.

He must smell nice, because his performances will not attract too much attention.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 18:02
Quote:
Kidney Stone
Quote:
hasta
Every club in the Prem is going to sniff around Harry M now.

He must smell nice, because his performances will not attract too much attention.

Rubbish, he has his poor moments sure but he is only 21 and a real talent if he can cut those out.

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 18:06
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Kidney Stone
Quote:
hasta
Every club in the Prem is going to sniff around Harry M now.

He must smell nice, because his performances will not attract too much attention.

Rubbish, he has his poor moments sure but he is only 21 and a real talent if he can cut those out.

Wouldn't get in our 23 this weekend let alone when were at full strength. If he maxes his potential then he wouldn't be so useful for us as he'd be away with England regularly. We need more imaginative recruitment than the first sacked coach of the seasons son.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 18:12
not long ago when Mallinder was touted as the England Manager, any Saints fans care to precis the rise and fall from your perspective

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 18:54
Of course he would get into the 23 - for versatility if nothing else. Hasnít he played 10, 12, 15 and wing? Big lad too. Iím not his greatest fan (his tackling leaves something to be desired) but I can see that he is a talented young man.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
13 December, 2017 23:23
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
Bathovalballer
The guy I was thinking of was Mark Mapletoft. IIRR he played a game or two for us as well.

I remember him playing for Rugby on their little pitch in Rugby against the might of Guscott's Bath when Rugby were in the 1st Division or whatever it was called then (probably 25+ years ago) Mapletoft was by far their best player.

Team-mate of my brother's at Cleeve (many, many moons ago). I've only heard good things of him.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 09:16
Quote:
BathMatt53
Of course he would get into the 23 - for versatility if nothing else. Hasnít he played 10, 12, 15 and wing? Big lad too. Iím not his greatest fan (his tackling leaves something to be desired) but I can see that he is a talented young man.

Wouldn't start in the centres, wouldn't start 10, isn't better than either of our wings to slot Watson on the wing let alone displace AW. Possibly be the 23rd man but tbh wouldn't offer much more than Fred does off the bench and Fred is a better player. When at full strength where'd he slot in?

15. Watson
14. Rocco
13. JJ
12. Taps
11. Banahan
10. Rhys

22. Burns
23. Homer/ Clark/ Brew

Can't see it unfortunately. Average version of an average Devoto

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 09:35
Quote:
BathLad
Quote:
BathMatt53
Of course he would get into the 23 - for versatility if nothing else. Hasnít he played 10, 12, 15 and wing? Big lad too. Iím not his greatest fan (his tackling leaves something to be desired) but I can see that he is a talented young man.

Wouldn't start in the centres, wouldn't start 10, isn't better than either of our wings to slot Watson on the wing let alone displace AW. Possibly be the 23rd man but tbh wouldn't offer much more than Fred does off the bench and Fred is a better player. When at full strength where'd he slot in?

15. Watson
14. Rocco
13. JJ
12. Taps
11. Banahan
10. Rhys

22. Burns
23. Homer/ Clark/ Brew

Can't see it unfortunately. Average version of an average Devoto

You said that he wouldn't get into the 23 this weekend. So Roko, Homer, Clark all out. Watson, Burns and Rhys can't all play and cover the bench for 10 / 15. Mallinder would 100% be in the 23 this weekend IMO if he played for us.

 
Olly_L
BathLad (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 09:47
no the above says that this weekend he
a) Wouldn't start in the centres
b) wouldn't start 10
c) Isn't better than either of our wings to slot Watson on the wing and him at 15
d) Couldn't displace Watson
e) Possibly be the 23rd man but wouldn't offer much more than Fred does off the bench and Fred is a better player. Why'd you have 2 players that almost offer the same off the bench? you wouldn't.

Then the following bit is for... When at full strength where'd he slot in?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 10:04
Agree to disagree then...Fred is a better 10, Rhys isn't a better 12 imo.

I suspect that he would be either starting at 12 or on the bench as a big fast and versatile option. (I agree that 10 is full).

Still, all conjecture anyway!

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 10:04
Very confused.
I thought this thread was about the sacking of Mallinder senior?
and possibly but obviously optimistically, who might replace him! (Sm116)



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 10:22
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Very confused.
I thought this thread was about the sacking of Mallinder senior?
and possibly but obviously optimistically, who might replace him! (Sm116)

Yes Annie. As a result of his sacking there are reports that (like the Fords) young Mallinder could be unsettled - Tigers being linked with him for example. We were just using that as an excuse to debate the relative merits of Saints players and whether young Mallinder (in particular) would get into the Bath 1st choice team and / or the 23 for this weekend. Bathlad thinks he wouldn't I think he would.

 
redmix
redmix (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 10:54
Quote:
BathMatt53
Bathlad thinks he wouldn't I think he would.

I don't think he would either.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 10:57
Quote:
redmix
Quote:
BathMatt53
Bathlad thinks he wouldn't I think he would.

I don't think he would either.

I think he would get in our 23, but you'd like to think he won't do a GF and throw a hissy fit because his dad has been sacked.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 12:40
Mallinder is class in attack. His defence isn't great, but he's 21. Do any of you remember Bendy's defence at age 21? He'd be a great option at 15 and back-up 12 for us.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 12:52
The issue with his is a tough one to fix though.
Bendy was never a coward.

There's not a lot a couch can do about a player who refuses to position himself to make a tackle - it's not a positional problem, he deliberately avoids making tackles if he possibly can, and then avoids actually committing himself to it if he can't run away.

NB: Mallinder Jr is only a coward in relation to his peers

Having said that, I'd still welcome him at Bath if he wants time out of the spot light and to actually work on this aspect of his game. I'd rather take a Saints coach though, who is also more likely to find himself excess to requirements of a new coaching crew.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 14/12/2017 12:57 by Which Tyler.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 13:25
Surely grown up players donít have to be looked after by their daddies(Sm102)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 13:51
I don't think in either case comes down to being looked after by their dad, if your shared employer treats your dad badly then your bound to consider your position. Quite likely you will leave at the end of your contract if that relationship has been spoilt. In George's case we agreed to terminate that contract through a player swap and I think everyone did ok out of a bad situation.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 15:30
Okay but it depends whether you consider that legally terminating someoneís employment owing to poor results or poor management of players is treating the employee badly. If it is unreasonable & recourse is made to the employment tribunal then fair enough. Otherwise these are not jobs for life & you surely have to take the rough with the smooth?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 15:41
Just depends on how it was done doesn't it? Wasn't that Georges issue? As Jim had just signed a 5 year contract I'm guessing he can drown his sorrows with Champagne.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 16:28
If we terminated a players contract because they weren't playing as well as we'd hoped, particularly if they'd had a blinding season the one before this, I think he'd be rightly upset.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 18:01
You can drop and out of form player but not an out of form manager.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 18:08
I don't think it's a perfect comparison, but I still think it's worth thinking about in those terms and, in a way, you can't drop a player in a capped environment. Sure you can not play them, but that doesn't free up money to spend on a replacement. You have to budget room into your playing structure to allow for dips in form.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 19:38
My bet is that Ford might just be put on a short term contract until the end of the season, but reading their messageboard, that wouldn't go down at all well with many of their fans. It seems, strangely, that Mike Ford, is not held in high regard thereabouts.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Mallinder
14 December, 2017 23:29
Quote:
Which Tyler
The issue with his is a tough one to fix though.
Bendy was never a coward.

There's not a lot a couch can do about a player who refuses to position himself to make a tackle - it's not a positional problem, he deliberately avoids making tackles if he possibly can, and then avoids actually committing himself to it if he can't run away.

NB: Mallinder Jr is only a coward in relation to his peers

Having said that, I'd still welcome him at Bath if he wants time out of the spot light and to actually work on this aspect of his game. I'd rather take a Saints coach though, who is also more likely to find himself excess to requirements of a new coaching crew.

To say any professional rugby player is a coward, either absolutely or relatively, seems to me to be offensive in the extreme. Mallinder Jr may have a tackle technique issue but the degree of physical and mental fortitude required to play rugby at his standard precludes cowardice in any form. IMHO.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu


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