rugbyunion
Latest News:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League


MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 14:18
It has occurred to me recently that rugby with transfers, the quest for money by increasing players workload and increasing simulation and back chat rugby is becoming more like football.

There seems little regard for players and the sport itself

On the simulation/cheating Austin Healy seems to think it is on the increase in this article here.

Is this an inevitable result of professionalism and do others think it is on the increase.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 15:59
I wish the refs would use the 10m walk backwards more often. That would cut out the back chat. The asst refs should be able to notice more of the cheating if they looked for the right things (i particulalrly hate the hanging onto players after ruck or line out).

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 16:45
I think Rugby is slowly becoming a more professional sport. The main professional sport in the country is Football - so it gets compared to that.
When money starts being more important , one of the consequences is that deception and 'playing the ref' becomes more important - and probably coached.
Just the way it is - everyone needs the result more than the 'spirit of the game'

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 17:19
FL, I think you are right but does that mean that the sport will lose it's amateur virtues, such as respect for the ref and self policing or will we see more of the behaviour that invites a card of either colour. Like exaggerating a shove or collapsing to the ground at the slightest head contact knowing how sensitive refs are currently in that area.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 17:43
2 relevant incidents that stood out for me in the recent worcs LI match were Donnacha OC falling over like he had been poleaxed when he had a little slap on the face but also the ref saying to Cowan that if he spoke to him again he would take 10m, Cowan spoke, the ref did it and said ‘I gave you the option’.

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 17:53
Quote:
shipwrecked
FL, I think you are right but does that mean that the sport will lose it's amateur virtues, such as respect for the ref and self policing or will we see more of the behaviour that invites a card of either colour. Like exaggerating a shove or collapsing to the ground at the slightest head contact knowing how sensitive refs are currently in that area.

Yes it's no longer an amateur sport it's a professional business
Amateur Virtues were swapped for the £s.
Do you think any of the amateurs we worship would have thought twice about swapping being a poor amateur (trying to hold down a job and play rugby) to be a rich professional?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 17:55
Quote:
fat lock
Quote:
shipwrecked
FL, I think you are right but does that mean that the sport will lose it's amateur virtues, such as respect for the ref and self policing or will we see more of the behaviour that invites a card of either colour. Like exaggerating a shove or collapsing to the ground at the slightest head contact knowing how sensitive refs are currently in that area.

Yes it's no longer an amateur sport it's a professional business
Amateur Virtues were swapped for the £s.
Do you think any of the amateurs we worship would have thought twice about swapping being a poor amateur (trying to hold down a job and play rugby) to be a rich professional?
1, but then, he was a literal prince, and presumably didn't need to worry too much about the day job bit


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Woodster
Woodster (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 20:23
Yes. As it becomes more professional (like football) can it keep the values that make the game so special? If it could replicate all the good things in football but keep the values of RU then they might be on to a good thing?

For me, they can learn from football and make sure they don't fall into the same traps so making modern day RU a very exciting game.

All that said not at the expense of player welfare which I fear is happening now....

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
28 December, 2017 21:17
Lot of interesting contradictions.
Does the over dependence of of tv replay take away the self policing thing?
Well yes could be.

However for once AH article rather interesting. I find the constant obstruction and contact off the ball around rucks mind-blowingly dull and unattractive.

Back to self policing then to solve that . Bizarre that more transparency in fact removes the morality of the game.

SQUAWK

 
MESSAGES->author
Garbageman (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
29 December, 2017 07:37
Jumpers for goalposts?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
29 December, 2017 10:00
Quote:
fat lock
Quote:
shipwrecked
FL, I think you are right but does that mean that the sport will lose it's amateur virtues, such as respect for the ref and self policing or will we see more of the behaviour that invites a card of either colour. Like exaggerating a shove or collapsing to the ground at the slightest head contact knowing how sensitive refs are currently in that area.

Yes it's no longer an amateur sport it's a professional business
Amateur Virtues were swapped for the £s.
Do you think any of the amateurs we worship would have thought twice about swapping being a poor amateur (trying to hold down a job and play rugby) to be a rich professional?

Isn't it about integrity? Simply because money plays a part shouldn't erode all the best features of the sport, I can see how it might alter the motivation to win but does it mean the values simply get abandoned?

The key lies with the games administrators, though I have to say they could do better, first thing would be to see that players welfare is maintained as a priority, agree with Woodster on that one.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
29 December, 2017 10:52
Quote:
shipwrecked
FL, I think you are right but does that mean that the sport will lose it's amateur virtues...

The biggest killer of it's amateur virtues is the focus on body mass and the incessant legal 'doping' that goes on to achieve it.

I am sure it would have happened at the top of the amateur game eventually but at least there were some natural restrictions.

Even worse, as amateur sports try to replicate their professional brethren, the local club game has become overrun with the prevailing view that only bulk matters. I can tell you, it's far less fun on a Saturday morning now than 5 years - especially if you disagree with supplements, or don't have the time or will to spend your your life in the gym (like me).

I can put up with playacting - we have a couple in my team -and tbh we just laugh at them. That's probably the best self-righting response. But then again, it's not their livelihood they're playing for.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
29 December, 2017 12:26
Slightly OT but just listening to the radio and heard a story about a very little boy who was given a "Harley Bear", which I imagine is a little cuddly Quinn's mascot bear.

He absolutely adored this little bear.

His parents moved to Spain where his father tragically died suddenly. Harley Bear became even more important to him...........then he lost the Bear.

His family and grandfather in particular tried to source a replacement. Searching the Internet etc nothing could be found as they were discontinued.

Finally in desperation he contacted the CEO of Quinn's who said there were none anywhere but he would get back to him.

Anyway after some time they came and had found the supplier who said they would make a one off Harley Bear............a little while later the Bear was made and delivered to one very happy little boy.


I'm absolutely not saying that that would not happen in football........but it is very important that this type of thing continues to always happen in the family of Rugby.

Very well done to all concerned at Harlequins!

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
30 December, 2017 01:28
Garbage,
Wrong game.

FLAP

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Is Rugby becoming like Football?
30 December, 2017 11:07
In terms of scale I can't see rugby being like football in the lifetime of anyone on here and there's good trains to think it will never be.

There are few things that I think are sliding, but they could be fixed. Refs are increasingly being undermined. In football, I believe, players are bigger than the game. "Ref, you can't turn a decision over simply because you don't like the way Messi approached you!" Well in rugby you can and should. World rugby should ramp up that message. It should be reasonable for your team to play better but ultimately lose just because they spoke to the ref out of turn. People who follow rugby should understand that. Sadly, it's going the other way.

Ironically, prescribed cards and tmos don't help. We should trust the ref to interpret the game. He knows when an action is dangerous and when it isn't, but he's declared "wrong" by the audience because he landed on his back or neck. Go back to "the ref is always right, even when he's wrong." Likewise tmos just take authority from the ref. If he thinks a try was scored, he awards it. If the TV subsequently shows the ball wasn't grounded, bad luck. Just like the 100 other decisions he got "wrong" but you couldn't go back to. Overall, I believe, refs are fair and there's a massive element of chance in the game that we can't remove and wouldn't want to. Refs are part of that.

Rugby had always been about playing up to the line the ref will allow you to. I've always found refs know what's going on in a game a lot more than players suspect. Again empower the ref. Put the trust in him. He knows when he's being gamed and can balance things if he's got the scope to. If you tie him down and say you must do this and only this when you see and only when you see this you open the game up to cheats.

One thing I've always been proud of is the light touch in policing crowds at ap games. I like a drink at a game and really want that to continue. But it is an increasing issue that people are having too much. I don't mean getting up in the middle of the action, that's rude and annoying, but but the end of the world. Sadly there are an increasing number that are abusive and just doing things that are just stupid. That is going to end up like football and no one will be able to enjoy a drink. That's obviously a largely self policing balancing act that's hard to do, but we've managed in the past. I think if the attitude of the majority understands the line it can continue. I mention drinking, but it applies to a lot of behaviour.

I don't really see the problem with some football like aspects. Would it really be a problem if players were consistently bought out of contracts? It might we'll help feeder teams.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?