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MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 16:00
On his way to us according to the BT Sport commentators this pm?



Stuart

Former ed.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 16:22
He's an excellent 9, & beneath the international radar.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 19:42
I rate Chudley and would be pleased if he came to Bath.

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 22:20
I wouldn't be pleased if he went to Bath but he is certainly better than what you already have.
To be fair we made Ollie Woodburn into a great player and you couldn't coach him obviously.
What hope for Chudders?



Just a farm team from Devon.
We know who we be!

The lowest depth to which people can sink before Truth is defined by the word 'God'.

Pawel Vygot. 2018



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 22:28 by Prarie Dog.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 22:57
Very classy Prarie Dog. Struggling to recall similar smug/arrogant posts from other teams that have looked down on us over the years. I guess itís good Exe are establishing their own culture.

 
MESSAGES->author
Chudders Chief (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 23:19
Sorry about the dog. I know we are celebrating tonight but no need to be an arrse



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 23:23 by Chudders Chief.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
31 December, 2017 23:28
Quote:
Prarie Dog
I wouldn't be pleased if he went to Bath but he is certainly better than what you already have.
To be fair we made Ollie Woodburn into a great player and you couldn't coach him obviously.
What hope for Chudders?

Woodburn was a decent player and still is but unfortunately Roko was in front of him (and rightly so).

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 01:03
I think you can get carried away when all the constituent parts of your team are working well as it is with Exeter but it will come to an end at some stage. This dominance tends to exagerate the ability of all the players & the opposite applies equally. Woodburn is playing very well but I doubt that most impartial observers would consider him to be a great player. Eddie Jones is not a bad judge I would guess but he hasnít chosen him as yet as far as I know. If he was a ďgreatĒ player he would be a shoe in.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 01:07
If he comes to us where does that heave Cook or would it be Kahn who whilst doing another year would take a step back?

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 01:13
Quote:
Chudders Chief
Sorry about the dog. I know we are celebrating tonight but no need to be an arrse

Chiefs are celebrating, isn't that nice, great to hear.

Another smug Chief on the Tigers board...

Quote:
fatheralice
Clearly not the back line that was the issue for tigers today.
Chiefs pack was dominant, all the moreso once the bench came on.

Tigers back 5 is not good enough, and the bench non existent.

I can name 3 Chiefs backrows that I would pick over the Tigers one (admittedly not all fit!)

Ewers, Armand, Waldron
Dennis, Kvesic, Simmonds
Skinner, Salvi, Horstmann

With players like Freeman waiting in the wings to get his chance

I had you as favourites at half time given the conditions, but once the bench came on after 55mins the game was all Chiefs

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 01:44
All very well this contra-Club abuse which, I would like to go on record as not approving of but. . .
Chudley, who he?
Anyone know what Michael Claasens is doing now?

HOP

PS why did we sign Allinson? Not especially sub-Standard but seriously , what is the plan?

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 02:05
Quote:
sid the seagull
Chudley, who he?

He's the first choice 9 of the Premiership champions.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 02:09
Yeah but no Classens.

FLAP

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 02:36
Chiefs have four nines who aren't far off international selection. Maunder and white already played internationally, Townsend and chudley often picked ahead of them, but without the international recognition yet. Chudley would be a class signing, genuinely, I think maunder has the most potential with the speed of his pass and ability to read the game, but with four of that level one of them has to leave (they are all good enough to start at premiership level) and, knowing maunder personally and white having just arrived it makes sense that chudley or Townsend moves on. Whilst an attack coach is my priority, I would be massively excited to see chudley in the BBW and his try of the week recently should be enough to persuade the rest of you to agree. With the amount of injuries that are possible, we need three nines we would be willing and content to start in a Heineken cup quarter final, chudley, Kahn and cook are those.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:05
"his try of the week recently should be enough to persuade the rest of you to agree."

Not in itself. Surely if web learned one thing from Niko it's you can score remarkable trys and not be a great scrum half.

I think Will would be a decent player for us but my concern would be, joining us at aged 30, he's a bit of a stop gap. Taking over from kharn, who was a bit of a stop gap. Who took over from stringer, who was a bit of a stop gap. I'm not saying none of them have been good for us, but long term planning they haven't been. I don't think that's the way to approach a position like 9 that so dictates the style you can play.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:14
Quote:
DanWiley
His try of the week recently should be enough to persuade the rest of you to agree."
Not in itself. Surely if web learned one thing from Niko it's you can score remarkable trys and not be a great scrum half.

I think Will would be a decent player for us but my concern would be, joining us at aged 30, he's a bit of a stop gap. Taking over from kharn, who was a bit of a stop gap. Who took over from stringer, who was a bit of a stop gap. I'm not saying none of them have been good for us, but long term planning they haven't been. I don't think that's the way to approach a position like 9 that so dictates the style you can play.

+1

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:16
Quote:
Prarie Dog
I wouldn't be pleased if he went to Bath but he is certainly better than what you already have.
To be fair we made Ollie Woodburn into a great player and you couldn't coach him obviously.
What hope for Chudders?

Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:31
Quote:
fatheralice

I can name 3 Chiefs backrows that I would pick over the Tigers one (admittedly not all fit!)

Ewers, Armand, Waldron
Dennis, Kvesic, Simmonds
Skinner, Salvi, Horstmann

With players like Freeman waiting in the wings to get his chance


Surely this goes to the heart of where we are compared to Exeter. They have 10 back rowers with bags of experience & about 5 good scrum halves. It seems that we are far too reliant on a few star players & do not have strength in depth. That is very interesting because up to now this contrast has been denyed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2018 09:34 by Bath Hammer.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:37
I think the problem is unless you can get that greater than the sum of the parts thing going all you do in adding that depth is swap 23 studded with a few stars to 23 that don't have a few stars in there.

 
southgate
southgate (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:37
I think this is a problem chiefs are going to have to deal with more and more .They have some very good players in all positions but they all can't play at once and whatever anybody says professional sportsmen want to play every game it's in there nature .
If players don't get a look in from one week to the next then they may be tempted elsewhere for regular game time .

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:53
True but it looks as if they can lose one or two without depleting their squad & no doubt have a constant conveyer of talent via their academy so it seems to be a good situation to be in.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 09:55
Seems like a square peg for a round hole. He plays for a good team that keep the ball well, whereas we are a team that can't or don't want to keep the ball.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 10:01
Itís as much the championship as the academy I think? They have picked up a fair few from there, Williams and Simmons come to mind.

As for the back rows above, does Salvi still even play? We could put out 2 pretty tidy back rows too I think, certainly comparable.

Garvey Louw TF
Grant Ellis Zach
Bayliss Guy M Phillips

Whether we could get them on the field and playing to their potential is the question of course.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 10:13
Not forgetting Underhill !

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 10:25
Quote:
Beergoggles
Not forgetting Underhill !

Quite right. Too much New Years Ďcheerí for me.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 11:21
Quote:
OutsideBath
Seems like a square peg for a round hole. He plays for a good team that keep the ball well, whereas we are a team that can't or don't want to keep the ball.

He may not be too happy about the move but was probably told he canít be guaranteed much game time time with others coming through. It seems puzzling why they signed NicK White in the circumstances. Does Chudley have a poor injury record by any chance? Whatever the case if he comes to us he will have to adjust to the vagaries of Bath Rugby as opposed to the well oiled machine that is Exeter (Sm161)

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 12:41
Nic White is the better player, they've got Townsend and Maunder in the ranks as well who will be desperate for gametime.

Not sure why we would be prepared to offer Chudley more than other teams who are more desperate for a quality scrum half like Saints or Bristol.

 
Heavitree Chief
ExeterFan (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 12:55
Quote:
BathMatt53
Itís as much the championship as the academy I think? They have picked up a fair few from there, Williams and Simmons come to mind.
As for the back rows above, does Salvi still even play?

Simmonds is a home-grown player, has been loaned/dual registered to Pirates and Plymouth though. A lot of our Academy players seem to go to one or both to gain experience.

Salvi last played v Quins. We are lucky to have some good back row options at the moment.

Chudley would be a decent signing for you guys, has served us well and been unlucky with injuries when there was talk of him getting in England contention.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 16:31
I'm not sold on White. He's fine. Bit like Khan without the turnovers.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 16:35
Quote:
by
Nic White is the better player, they've got Townsend and Maunder in the ranks as well who will be desperate for gametime.
Not sure why we would be prepared to offer Chudley more than other teams who are more desperate for a quality scrum half like Saints or Bristol.

Austin Healey (who knows a bit about 9 play) said in commentary that he thought Chudley was Exe best 9.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 17:23
If this is true, it is symptomatic of the inevitable end to Exe's time in the sun. They are awesome right now, but the lure of bigger money will challenge the squad culture that serves them so well presently. Probably a good signing for us, but an even better signing for Will Chudley's career; the game is ever more professional.

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 20:49
I think the commentators are about 13 miles out. Chudley has been linked with Bristol, not us. Slip of the tongue by Healey.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 21:06
It was in the rugby paper.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 21:13
Briss are on the rise, sad but true.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
01 January, 2018 23:49
Quote:
@Hydor18
I think the commentators are about 13 miles out. Chudley has been linked with Bristol, not us. Slip of the tongue by Healey.

Makes sense, reckon they'll have the PL title bought within 5 years.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
Tom A Hawk (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 07:19
Quote:
Boldangrey
Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

Neither did Bath to be fair, But that said its a bit hard to do much with a guy who spent most of his time at Exeter either injured or on trial for sexual assault.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 07:50
Quote:
Tom A Hawk
Quote:
Boldangrey
Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

Neither did Bath to be fair, But that said its a bit hard to do much with a guy who spent most of his time at Exeter either injured or on trial for sexual assault.

In relation to the latter it is of course important to stress that he was subsequently found to be not guilty.

[www.devonlive.com]

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 07:53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
@Hydor18
I think the commentators are about 13 miles out. Chudley has been linked with Bristol, not us. Slip of the tongue by Healey.

Makes sense, reckon they'll have the PL title bought within 5 years.

Please explain how it is possible to Ďbuyí a prem title when there is a cap? Once you have explained it to me, will you please give Bruce a quick call to let him know as it would be quite handy since we, like a few others, are up to the cap and a title would be great thanks.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 08:52
Quote:
Tom A Hawk
Quote:
Boldangrey
Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

Neither did Bath to be fair, But that said its a bit hard to do much with a guy who spent most of his time at Exeter either injured or on trial for sexual assault.

But we're constantly being told Baxter is the Messiah can create rugby players from nothing!l

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 09:21
Also, he does a huge amount of research on the right character and personality to fit the squad...

 
CullyChief
CullyChief (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 11:12
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quote:
Tom A Hawk
Quote:
Boldangrey
Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

Neither did Bath to be fair, But that said its a bit hard to do much with a guy who spent most of his time at Exeter either injured or on trial for sexual assault.

But we're constantly being told Baxter is the Messiah can create rugby players from nothing!l

Altogether now........ heís not the Messiah.......

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 11:24
Quote:
CullyChief
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quote:
Tom A Hawk
Quote:
Boldangrey
Didn't do much with Matawalu, did you.

Neither did Bath to be fair, But that said its a bit hard to do much with a guy who spent most of his time at Exeter either injured or on trial for sexual assault.

But we're constantly being told Baxter is the Messiah can create rugby players from nothing!l

Altogether now........ heís not the Messiah.......

But there are plenty who think he is......

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 11:28
...as a result of his excellent achievements over the time that he has been there. Credit where credit's due, he may not be able to turn water into wine but he has been very good at his job.

 
CullyChief
CullyChief (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 12:12
Rob is very good and as a Chiefs fan I wouldnít swap him for anyone else. I think though that scrum half is a position where he may have slightly got things wrong. There are two very good prospects in Maunder and Townsend (Maunder already capped and Townsend trusted to play in the final last year) but he still seemed to think he needed Nic White. General consensus seems to be that three SHs is right for a Prem squad, and Chudley seems to have found himself in a bit of an awkward place, not the first choice and not one of the players being developed. Understandable if he wants to move to another club, especially one like Bath. If he does come to Bath youíll be getting a very good player. For what my opinion is worth, Iíd have kept him and not signed White. He can be brilliant but flaky, I think Chudley is more consistent.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 12:17
Quote:
BathMatt53
...as a result of his excellent achievements over the time that he has been there. Credit where credit's due, he may not be able to turn water into wine but he has been very good at his job.

Expect him to be the next England coach. We need to find someone like him to coach Bath



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 12:27
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
...as a result of his excellent achievements over the time that he has been there. Credit where credit's due, he may not be able to turn water into wine but he has been very good at his job.

Expect him to be the next England coach. We need to find someone like him to coach Bath

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Would he have the same impact at Bath? His family have been a stalwarts of Exeter for..well ever really. I'm not sure that there is an equivalent at any club - unless Nick Youngs wants to give up his farm in Norfolk?

Agree that he would be a prime candidate to replace EJ.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 12:41
I suspect there may be a parallel between Baxter and soccerís Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.

Howe did great things with Bournemouth went on to the Premiership (Blackburn?).

Howe didnít prosper and Bournemouth suffered without him.

He came back and Bournemouth took off again. A one team man.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
02 January, 2018 13:44
Baxter has certainly made Exeter way more than the sum of their parts. Their squad when you look at each player is decidedly average and not too many would be guaranteed starts elsewhere. However the team he has created is exceptional.

It would be interesting how he would get on elsewhere, but can only ever see him coaching England if the offer was made, but not any other club.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
03 January, 2018 12:11
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Baxter has certainly made Exeter way more than the sum of their parts. Their squad when you look at each player is decidedly average and not too many would be guaranteed starts elsewhere. However the team he has created is exceptional.
It would be interesting how he would get on elsewhere, but can only ever see him coaching England if the offer was made, but not any other club.

I think this is exactly right.

I am not a Chiefs fan, but I have huge admiration for what Baxter and the club have achieved. I find it incongruous that any real rugby fan could even begin to deny or belittle those achievements. He may not be the Messiah, but his results tell me that he is the best coach in the Prem by some way.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
03 January, 2018 12:37
Quote:
Kidney Stone
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Baxter has certainly made Exeter way more than the sum of their parts. Their squad when you look at each player is decidedly average and not too many would be guaranteed starts elsewhere. However the team he has created is exceptional.
It would be interesting how he would get on elsewhere, but can only ever see him coaching England if the offer was made, but not any other club.

I think this is exactly right.

I am not a Chiefs fan, but I have huge admiration for what Baxter and the club have achieved. I find it incongruous that any real rugby fan could even begin to deny or belittle those achievements. He may not be the Messiah, but his results tell me that he is the best coach in the Prem by some way.

I agree with both of the posts above but would add he is on a similar curve to Mallinder who did really well with Saints in the first 5-7yr and was talked of as a future England coach. I have no ill will towards Baxter/Chiefs but what goes up does come down eventually. They have been found out in Europe, albeit in a tough pool, and may yet be found out in the play offs...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 17:23
I know I'm a bit late commenting on this but I hope its a bit more than a coomentator's rumour, Kahn seems to have lost a bit of zip and I know I'm going to upset a few but I'm not a Cooke fan. I mentioned this before but I really feel that we need a running sniping threat down the 9/10 channel. It fixes the backs and makes room outside for the centres.

Ford lost that from his game and was worse for it in my view.

I get the impression with Cook that he either kicks or passes and that's it, fr me a 9 should get 4-6 tries a season, I think Chudley offers that.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 17:40
...or Cook needs to run more. He used to.

Mind you if Will Homer has learned this year maybe he's the man to take us into the future?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 18:46
Is Cook playing to orders?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 18:51
He is a great running 9 so I would hope they havenít neutered that part of his game.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 19:09
Quote:
Boldangrey
Is Cook playing to orders?

Aren't 9's supposed to play it as they see it, of all the positions on the field scrum half shouldn't be the scripted one.

I hope he isn't playing to orders as its easy to counter a predictable attack, but you may be right.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 19:13
Quote:
shipwrecked

Ford lost that from his game and was worse for it in my view.

I recall Ford playing some pretty special rugby with Stringer and some pretty terrible rugby with Matawalu. He's not performing to his potential with Youngs.

I'd like a proper running threat from SH too but I think evidence suggests that other attributes are probably preferable - like the ability to make decisions quickly.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
04 January, 2018 19:20
Quote:
Boldangrey
Is Cook playing to orders?

He could be a little low on confidence? With recent poor form any of the squad can be forgiven for being a bit down.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 00:01
And with the crowd on their backs for every damn kick when weíre playing catch up. The kicking is in the game plan and seems to happpen more often than not when we are in our half. Whether itís executed effectively is a different matter.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 05:05
Quote:
Rawce
And with the crowd on their backs for every damn kick when weíre playing catch up. The kicking is in the game plan and seems to happpen more often than not when we are in our half. Whether itís executed effectively is a different matter.

I donít think thatís entire fair Rawce, the crowd were getting annoyed because Bath were taking 10 mins to get the ball back and within 2 phases aimlessly kicking it back without a decent chase for them to have another crack. In his chron interview TB said that he was getting equally annoyed so itís obviously not the plan to do that.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 13:41
It's been the same plan for all of TB's tenure. Box kick or 10 puts it deep when we are in our own half, the crowd groans whether we chase and collect it or not. They simply get more vocal the more we're chasing a game.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 14:02
I wonder if Kahn's fall-off of form, and his combination with RP, are amongst the reasons for some of our disappointing results this year.

Over the last couple of months, the only games Chris Cook has started have been the home win vs Toulon and the very narrow away loss. Kahn has started with RP for the losses to Wasps, Sale, Exeter and Glos.

And the last decent Aviva result was against Quins when Kahn started, but with Freddie.

My memory of Kahn last year was that i'd rarely seen a 9 who got the ball into the next receiver's hands so fast. Maybe Rhys doesn't want the ball quite as much as George always wanted it, and so Kahn finds himself slowed down - hence the default to those pointless box kicks?

I'd really like to see Freddy given a run of games now - I wouldn't mind betting JJ feels the same. Wouldn't he thrive on Freddy's riskily flat passes that could give him half an inch on his opposite man's outside shoulder?

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 14:05
To be fair I don't think anyone would argue against us kicking when in our half. I think the exacerbation of the crowd comes when it is either;
1) Too slowly organised and done so that the opposition are set and ready for it
2) Not a good kick
3) Not a good chase
4) Done so quickly after we have just got possession of the ball

It is odd that we have been kicking quite so much from 9 this season. I find that although a box kick is more easily gathered by your own side as they tend to not go as far, if they aren't you are just handing easy field position to your opponents.

Why not play a crossfield kick from 10 to our wingers or something if we are going to kick ball away with the aim of retrieving it instead or a chip and chase/grubber in the midfield where we could regather it for a small territorial gain.

Seems bizarre to me to box kick so much as it's predictable for the opposition. We just need more variety!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 14:10
Quote:
Optimist
I wonder if Kahn's fall-off of form, and his combination with RP, are amongst the reasons for some of our disappointing results this year.
Over the last couple of months, the only games Chris Cook has started have been the home win vs Toulon and the very narrow away loss. Kahn has started with RP for the losses to Wasps, Sale, Exeter and Glos.

And the last decent Aviva result was against Quins when Kahn started, but with Freddie.

My memory of Kahn last year was that i'd rarely seen a 9 who got the ball into the next receiver's hands so fast. Maybe Rhys doesn't want the ball quite as much as George always wanted it, and so Kahn finds himself slowed down - hence the default to those pointless box kicks?

I'd really like to see Freddy given a run of games now - I wouldn't mind betting JJ feels the same. Wouldn't he thrive on Freddy's riskily flat passes that could give him half an inch on his opposite man's outside shoulder?

I think that its the loss of Taulupe Faletau (internationals and now injury) and FLouw. Kahn / Cook and Freddie / Rhys have been getting slow (if any) ball and it has been putting them under massive pressure. Well as their back row replacements have played, that have been the point of difference for me, its a different Bath team with them there.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 14:11
More variety - but also more invention from 9s. With good communication, i think there are often opportunities for 9 to set up as if to box-kick, but to dink it into the acre of space between the back foot of the opposition ruck and their back 3.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 15:01
"To be fair I don't think anyone would argue against us kicking when in our half"

Brian Ashton might.

"It is odd that we have been kicking quite so much from 9 this season. I find that although a box kick is more easily gathered by your own side as they tend to not go as far, if they aren't you are just handing easy field position to your opponents. "

I'm not sure I agree. Passing to 10 then kicking gives us 10 metres anyway. A good box kick goes pretty much the distance a winger can run, which is useful if you want to put the catcher under pressure or even regather. Kicking from 10 the winger (chaser) has to be behind the kicker meaning not only the kick has to go further but so does the chaser, actually meaning a good kick doesn't go further anyway.

"Why not play a crossfield kick from 10 to our wingers or something if we are going to kick ball away with the aim of retrieving it instead or a chip and chase/grubber in the midfield where we could regather it for a small territorial gain. "

Not being nasty, but I disagree here as well. Wipers are pretty useful when implemented right. But keep in mind you are kicking away from your forwards (typically) to a fast back three in space. As a back three player that is a potential nightmare. My winger is chasing probably at least a centre as well. If they don't gather or at least disrupt the fielding player he can easily step around those chasers giving himself and his support 50 metres of field space with just the full back and blindside wing to cover, maybe the back row and 9 if you're lucky, but mostly they'll be trying to change direction fast, but they aren't going to thank you for it and they won't be able to do it all game.

"Seems bizarre to me to box kick so much as it's predictable for the opposition. We just need more variety!"

Variety is a good call. But actually a box kick is very hard to defend and actually quite easy to get right (we don't). If its falling on that blind side winger in time for the chaser to reach him, even if it is predictable, what can he do? If its really well timed the chaser can compete at least 50:50 for it, but having momentum the chaser potentially has the advantage. If we're a little late then he catches it and is hit by our chasers, into a ruck, we're going forward, they're ALL going back (apart from 15, but only if he's switched on). Happy days. Even if it does got wrong they are boxed into the corner with only one or two players behind them and our pack in front. To make something of it they have to go back and out which gives us loads of time.

It might be entirely predictable, but what can they do? Unfortunately we kick it too long or mistime the chase too often. Which seems a bit criminal for professionals, but I guess everything gets harder there.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 16:17
Any kicking tactic is easy to defend if you know it is coming, that is why BD is suggesting variety, variety in kicking and variety in option.

Kicking for me is the option when nothing else is left, i.e. you can't run a break or make an attacking pass.

If we are not chasing the kick, and we have one of the best kick chasers in the business in JJ, then it says to me that it is unexpected.

Opti pointed out it may be the RP/KF pairing that might not be firing, its possibly true and a KH/FB spell might well be better but I also think RP needs support outside him and RP/BT enhances RP's game because he has someone reliable to move it on to. In the past he had Jamie Roberts and Scott Williams outside him when he was playing his best rugby.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 17:41
It can't be that unexpected, we all know it's going to happen.

"Kicking for me is the option when nothing else is left"

I think this is fairly naive. If you don't offer a credible kicking attack then your opposition's job has just got much simpler. Even in the simple defensive patterns we used to play a reluctant kicking team frees up a number of extra bodies and allows you to commit to you defence with much more aggression.

How do you defend the box kick then if you think it's likely to come?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 19:04
Quote:
DanWiley
It can't be that unexpected, we all know it's going to happen.
"Kicking for me is the option when nothing else is left"

I think this is fairly naive. If you don't offer a credible kicking attack then your opposition's job has just got much simpler. Even in the simple defensive patterns we used to play a reluctant kicking team frees up a number of extra bodies and allows you to commit to you defence with much more aggression.

How do you defend the box kick then if you think it's likely to come?

The point was Dan, as mentioned at the start of the post is variety, a credible kicking attack has to have variety and a chase. A box kick with no chase is giving the ball away.

If the 10 is kicking he will kick for distance and position, that would be the basis of your kicking strategy.

The variant is the kick from 9, often blind with a perfect hang time and chase into the space between the 22 and 10 yard line if its an attacking kick.

As for how to defend a box kick, well first up is it "likely to come" or "inevitable" if its inevitable you drop your winger or ball handling forward back alongside your FB to catch and secure.

If they get it wrong, its free possession which is what we are doing at the moment.

But if instead of box kicking you give it to Faletau, Roko or Watson even in a little in space, then enjoy some exhilarating rugby. Box kicking is just one of a range of options, as I mentioned variety is what we need.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 19:27
"As for how to defend a box kick, well first up is it "likely to come" or "inevitable" if its inevitable you drop your winger or ball handling forward back alongside your FB to catch and secure. "

If it's a forward you've just take a key piece of your defence out of position and put him into a corner.

The blind side winger should be back there anyway, otherwise the kick is a gimmy. But even if he is he's fixed and going to get knocked backwards with only one player, the full back, able to join the resulting ruck without having to get onside.

If your full back is that far over you're creating space on the open side.

Doing what you suggest would put your defence out of shape. Which is why the box kick is so effective. Which is why we, and others, do it a lot.

I'm not suggesting is the only thing we should do, but it is a very difficult thing to defend even if you know it's coming, of day knowing it is coming helps very little.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 19:58
Very little point in creating space anywhere on the pitch if you have just given the ball to the opposition!

We are not conceding games because of our inability to defend box kicks, we give the ball to the opposition who often then go through the phases.

Whats the obsession about anyway?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Will Chudley
05 January, 2018 20:05
What obsession?

"Very little point in creating space anywhere on the pitch if you have just given the ball to the opposition! "

But you don't have to kick. Moreover you don't have to kick next time.


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