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DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 09:50
Maybe, but if we just wanted to give him money outside the cap.

You probably can't do exactly what I suggested anyway, otherwise we'd offer BB £3.50 a week plus a £1m contract for "scouting" in NZ when he's done, but I'm sure you could do something.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 09:52
Quote:
DanWiley
I think the cap just adds to the natural pressure of not wanting to pay more for something than its worth.
If there weren't a cap do you think Bruce would want to pay Banners more just because he's been here a while? If so, I'd say an easy solution would have been to offer him two contracts now: one the one we did, the second one that comes into force at the end of the first an appoints him official daisy counter for the rec (non-playing).

I doubt that would get through the regulations otherwise everyone would pay extra for counting daisies!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 09:52
Quote:
DanWiley
I think the cap just adds to the natural pressure of not wanting to pay more for something than its worth.
If there weren't a cap do you think Bruce would want to pay Banners more just because he's been here a while? If so, I'd say an easy solution would have been to offer him two contracts now: one the one we did, the second one that comes into force at the end of the first an appoints him official daisy counter for the rec (non-playing).

Not sure what the second part means ...daisy counter? However, there can be no sentiment in this, Banners is an excellent stalwart of this club but Gloucester's offer was better and longer, if in 2 years time we had matched his offer and he had lost a yard of pace (he would be 33) I'm sure the board would be screaming for his cap to be used for a faster winger.

I don't think Banners would want to be retained or selected out of pity, he's not that sort of guy.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 09:53
Those posters who think its all fine and dandy that the club failed to hold on to him. need to get out more.
The rest of the Premiership is either thinking bonkers decision, or wishing that they had thrown their hat in the ring for his talent and team spirit. Bendy is the same generation as Banners at Bath all those years ago for those of you too young to remember. Don't think he has any regrets over moving to Clermont - European champions etc and very popular with their fabulous support. And where have Bath been over those years?

P.S. they need to change the ticket office automated answer, as there he is 'speaking directly' extolling the virtues of buying tickets for kids.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 10:19
Those posters who think its all fine and dandy that the club failed to hold on to him. need to get out more.

The club wanted to keep him, TB wanted to keep him, the fans wanted to keep him, TB wanted to keep him. Glos offered more than we felt we could pay. No need for the insults.

The rest of the Premiership is either thinking bonkers decision, or wishing that they had thrown their hat in the ring for his talent and team spirit.

Errr, an your evidence is? It was reported that Bristol wanted him. I haven't seen anything from Rob Baxter or Dai etc. so maybe you could point us to it?

Bendy is the same generation as Banners at Bath all those years ago for those of you too young to remember.

No need to be patronising Annie.

Don't think he has any regrets over moving to Clermont - European champions etc and very popular with their fabulous support. And where have Bath been over those years?

Quite right, he shouldn't have any regrets, he has been soaking up the french sun and playing for a fantastic team with a fantastic support.

P.S. they need to change the ticket office automated answer, as there he is 'speaking directly' extolling the virtues of buying tickets for kids.

He is a Bath Rugby employee until the end of the year and has said quite clearly that he wants to end on a high and he will give it his all. Do you think that kids should no longer watch him playing rugby? Seems a bit petty IMO.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 10:35
There is in no doubt in my mind that we are close to the cap. Meeting the Glawster offer would probably mean keeping Banas and sacrificing required players coming in within the cap. Remember existing AP players cannot be marquees. This balancing act is extremely difficult and to make accusations on the club that they should have done more without the full facts just shows complete naivety.

Banas had to think of his family first before the club and I am sure he would be the first to recognise that the Glaws offer meant it would jeopardise the club's recruiting capacity or even jeopardise one or two of his colleagues futures at the Club to make room for him.

Sorry to see him go and wish him and his family all the best and hope he stays in touch.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 10:39
Tigers made the mistake of treating Lewis Moody snd Dan Hipkiss really badly and it has shown that this had an effect on the relationship between the playing side and the management.

They clearly recognized this and made sure they did not make the same mistake with Tom Croft despite him being with his injuries being a prime candidate to be offloaded.

IMHO we made a huge error with Bendy and probably a bigger one with Banners. Like I said TB was very vocal in relation to wanting to keep Banners but this shows again a lack of unity between Playing side and management, couple this with no replacement or signings being announced is quite amateurish especially as they must have known the majority of BBW fans would be very upset - not even a caveat of a replacement signing being announced.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:00

P.S. they need to change the ticket office automated answer, as there he is 'speaking directly' extolling the virtues of buying tickets for kids.


Imagine the following scenario: Today Bath rugby deletes Banners from the voice mail:

This is a despicable act of depravity, a true BBW blood in the veins servant of the club, with talismanic qualities beyond reproach has been treated like a sack of $hit, I'm burning my season ticket forthwith!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:08
Did Tiggers really suffer as a result of Moody? I really can't see the case for Hipkiss either?

I don't think Bendy was an error as such, not an easily avoidable one at any rate. We had two top draw 15s, keeping them both happy was always going to be difficult. In losing one, who subsequently won player of the year (I think?), we kept one that went on to be a Lion. You could say we could have asked AW to play on the wing, but I don't think he'd have been happy with that.

I can't see how Banners is a bigger error. Losing Bendy when we did was a real shame, I'd be considerably less bothered if we lost him now. Moreover I really don't think Matt is in any danger of winning that award.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:17
I think Bendy was an error based on the fact that Mike Ford didnt like him/rate him.

Not sure about Banners, but BathMatt had it about right (Maybe BathMatt is Banners?)

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:27
(Sm111)

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:35
Quote:
Ali1969
Like I said TB was very vocal in relation to wanting to keep Banners but this shows again a lack of unity between Playing side and management, couple this with no replacement or signings being announced is quite amateurish especially as they must have known the majority of BBW fans would be very upset - not even a caveat of a replacement signing being announced.

TB in the Chron understanding why Banas decided to leave said this

Quote:
Weíre working hard to ensure we get the right balance in the squad, taking into account the various complexities of building the squad we want long-term, and we will make further announcements on recruitment when appropriate.

There a few still to sort out whose contracts end this season, no doubt now Banas has made his decision they have the ability to work out who they need and who will come in.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:41
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
Ali1969
Like I said TB was very vocal in relation to wanting to keep Banners but this shows again a lack of unity between Playing side and management, couple this with no replacement or signings being announced is quite amateurish especially as they must have known the majority of BBW fans would be very upset - not even a caveat of a replacement signing being announced.

TB in the Chron understanding why Banas decided to leave said this

Quote:
Weíre working hard to ensure we get the right balance in the squad, taking into account the various complexities of building the squad we want long-term, and we will make further announcements on recruitment when appropriate.

There a few still to sort out whose contracts end this season, no doubt now Banas has made his decision they have the ability to work out who they need and who will come in.

It's almost as if it's actually a lot more complex than 'one out, one in' as some have suggested.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 11:43 by Toast and Marmite.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:43
Quote:
BathMatt53
(Sm111)

Not denying it then, good luck with the knuckle draggers!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:46
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
BathMatt53
(Sm111)

Not denying it then, good luck with the knuckle draggers!

I definitely feel like I have played a game of rugby the morning after a Bath match but I think that could be due to falling over on the walk home and sleeping under a bench?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 11:52
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
BathMatt53
(Sm111)

Not denying it then, good luck with the knuckle draggers!

I definitely feel like I have played a game of rugby the morning after a Bath match but I think that could be due to falling over on the walk home and sleeping under a bench?

Tell us more Matt !!!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 12:16

 
BathHalfFull
BathHalfFull (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 14:03
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
BathHalfFull
Next time Bruce or Tarquin spin a load of guff about trying to instill a culture into Brand Bath I hope everybody reminds them of this moment. You can splash your cash around on the latest shiny big name (Moody, Beaver, Burgess) all you like but the one thing you can't buy is culture - that comes from within and is built for years through people like Banners. It is a sad sign of the way rugby is going and our club in particular is going under this ownership that our great wise leaders don't recognise that even putting sentiment to one side, it is worth investing in people like Banners who have lots to offer on the pitch and off it instead of some flashy new toy.

You realise that Moody signed 8 years ago? Have you been bottling this up all that time?

I assume that they weighed up the pro's and con's, made him an offer which they thought reflected his value at 31 years of age and it was gazumped by another team. None of us know what the state of the payroll is for the club so I'm not sure we should judge? For example would you prefer that we paid Banners more and then lost Watson somewhere else when his contract renews in 2019?

Sometimes in life (and business) two parties are just too far apart, but you assume that they didn't do everything that they can and, even worse, that they don't recognise the value of Banners to the team. I would counter that if anyone knew, it was them?

Thanks. Nice of you.

What is clear is that the club ballsed up negotiations. Yes of course there's a line you don't cross and there's a limit beyond which you don't pay and rightly so but as made clear in the article you just linked Bath botched their negotiations.

"Banners did not take well to being given a deadline in October by which to sign a non-negotiable deal and that was a factor in his decision."

There are issues stemming from his previous deal which he took in good faith that the club would do the right thing and they clearly had different ideas. Then the negotiating tactic they used clearly had the opposite effect to the one they'd have liked. Of course there are players in the past who have left for various reasons - Tindall for example demanded a ludicrous payrise and had been disruptive off the field for a fair time so when gloucester stumped up the silly money the club were right to let him go rather than overpay - but Banners is a different story - a player growing into a talisman who grounds the club in a culture (plus he's been one of our best/most consistent players over the last couple of tricky years). I've just seen bendy's tweet as well after someone mentioned it here and that is pretty revealing in itself.

In summary:
A) I'm gutted he's gone.
cool smiley It makes me not like the club I love as much as I did.
C) I'll get over it.
D) Good luck Banners - I hope you score a wonder try against us (with the match already safely won by us) and you give Brucie a deserved salute in celebration.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 14:17
Not sure if it was daft or arrogant of whoever is in charge of contract negotiations to expect Banners to sign for the same money. Not even an inflation rise? I certainly would have told them where to stick it, which I guess Banners did.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 14:28
Quote:
BathHalfFull

In summary:

A) I'm gutted he's gone.
C) I'll get over it.
D) Good luck Banners

Totally agree with this.

Chron report says the difference was £60k per year so not a small sum, particularly with the extra year thrown in.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 14:53
Quote:
BathMatt53
Chron report says the difference was £60k per year so not a small sum, particularly with the extra year thrown in.
Warning - back of an envelope maths coming up:

That extra £60k per year + an extra year; makes it sound that 30% extra for an extra year even more likely as the realistic case before the Chinese Whispers got started (some suggesting £30k extra, some suggesting double).
That theory would put Bath's offer at £200k; which sounds about right for an international player 5 years ago, or a squad starter currently. It also suggests that Bath offered £400k over 2 years, Glos offered £780k over 3 - dont blame him for taking that, and I don't blame Bath for not matching it.

The rest of the rumour about the non-negotiable offer and early deadlines sounds mean and mis-managed; but also sounds like I imagine common practice (hard-ball negotiating) to be in the business world.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 14:59 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 15:27
Quote:
Which Tyler

The rest of the rumour about the non-negotiable offer and early deadlines sounds mean and mis-managed; but also sounds like I imagine common practice (hard-ball negotiating) to be in the business world.

or do you want negotiating to go on for weeks and meanwhile all suitable replacements (or other ppositions to use the money) have been hoovered up by other teams. I have no problem with 'this is what we are offering -take it or leave it'. Would make buying a car or anything else so much easier and quicker. I'm not saying I think it always appropriate but if you want to speed things up it is a very good strategy.

Not wanting to swear but if the EU gave us a take it or leave it option, we could decide and move on one way or the other(after final parliamentary vote or second referendum) and get on with the other things in life. Would also mean Mr Davies etc. could sleep again.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 15:39
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
Which Tyler

The rest of the rumour about the non-negotiable offer and early deadlines sounds mean and mis-managed; but also sounds like I imagine common practice (hard-ball negotiating) to be in the business world.

or do you want negotiating to go on for weeks and meanwhile all suitable replacements (or other ppositions to use the money) have been hoovered up by other teams. I have no problem with 'this is what we are offering -take it or leave it'. Would make buying a car or anything else so much easier and quicker. I'm not saying I think it always appropriate but if you want to speed things up it is a very good strategy.

Not wanting to swear but if the EU gave us a take it or leave it option, we could decide and move on one way or the other(after final parliamentary vote or second referendum) and get on with the other things in life. Would also mean Mr Davies etc. could sleep again.
There's a time and a place; and a difference between individuals.
If I'm negotiating something, and one party opens with "take it or leave it" - then I'm almost always going to leave it, because that sort of thing @#$%& me right off. For Banahan, we know from 5 years ago that he places a great deal of importance on long-term stability, hence his negotiating hard for a 5 years contract 5 years ago.
Personally, if we're talking about an item with a price, then I expect to pay the price (or choise not to buy it); if it's a negotiation, then I expect the ability to negotiate.
Equally, I'm weird.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 15:49
Words polite enough for this board fail me on Bath Matt whoever he likes to think he is as defender of all things Bath Rugby Plc.

He definitely 'needs to get out more', as I have had texts from a Saints, a Quins, A Wasps, an Exeter main supporting friends - all making the same comments! For the poster who thinks she/he is Matt, ........................ I don't think so.

As I commented and was slapped down on another thread, the bottom line appears to be all that matters.

My comment that Banahan is still on the automated voicemail was to indicate that although he is not considered valuable enough to hang on to even bearing in mind his talent and years of service plus 'added value' to the club etc., he is still to be used to sell tickets. I rest my case.
Very glad to know that the future of the club apologists support on this messageboard is in the hands of such discerning and knowledgeable posters.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 16:03
Quote:
hemington

Not wanting to swear but if the EU gave us a take it or leave it option, we could decide and move on one way or the other(after final parliamentary vote or second referendum) and get on with the other things in life. Would also mean Mr Davies etc. could sleep again.

They pretty much are. It's Davis and co who in pursuit of the cake-and-eat-it Brexit we were promised keep begging for 'flexibility' and 'imagination'.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 16:06
All, purely as it's so divisive, would you mind keeping Brexit talk to that thread, even in metaphor.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 16:13
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Words polite enough for this board fail me...

Well why not refrain from posting and throwing ad hom attacks all over the place.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 16:20
I just donít think that itís all part of some Tarquin-led evil conspiracy to make Bath rubbish Annie, thatís where our views differ.

Itís annoying, but these things happen and life moves on for both Banners and the club.

Try to enjoy tonightís game, despite it being organised by Bath Plc.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 16:30
BathMatt I do not believe anyone thinks Tarquin is trying to bring Bath down, the problem is every time he is shown or personally when I have heard him speak he does not show the empathy or passion for rugby or the club. That is not a slur on him and it maybe the way he is and that cannot be helped, unfortunately and I Hope no-one takes this the wrong way but my experience of financiers and money men and women are that they unfortunately tend to be quite grey and have a lack of enthusiasm which often comes down to the field they work in - Cold hard currency.

Next to BC, Tarquin is the main man and unfortunately he is always going to be in the firing line.

When NB was in that position however seemed to have a personality which came across as a man who really was a fan not just of Bath Rugby but sport in general, I am sorry to say Tarquin does not!!!

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
12 January, 2018 22:06
Think its you that are paranoid.
Anyway, after tonights dire inconsistent performance are you also going to deny that there is something amiss with the team?



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 00:06
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Think its you that are paranoid.
Anyway, after tonights dire inconsistent performance are you also going to deny that there is something amiss with the team?

Well you were DESPERATE for us to do badly and you got your wish. Tarquins fault no doubt you must be very pleased.

 
Jeb01
Jeb01 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 00:59
Childish. Poor performance tonight. Banahan one of Bathís better performers. He still has two or three seasons at Premiership level. Pity Bath canít accommodate that.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 10:09
BathMatt I have the utmost respect for your views however that last post really has let you down. Look most BBW supporters are going to be disappointed and angry to lose what they consider Mr Bath.

I do not believe anyone is personally attacking Tarquin as a person, if they are without knowing him they should be embarrassed, however there is no denying he is responsible for the signing and re-signing of players and the day to day running of the club, therefore he is going to be responsible and to be fair whenever I have heard him speaking at meetings etc he has not helped himself.

At the start of the season if you asked anyone in rugby which player would be changing clubs Banners would not even figure, he optimizes Bath and losing someone like him can have a devastating effect on the team, club and definitely the supporters.

You cannot take last nights performance on its own, however couple it with our capitulation against Sale and Wasps and Exeter in the last 2 months is really concerning and shows without a shadow of a doubt all is not well in the camp at the moment and TB has not been a cheerful sole for some time.

I would not be surprised with a change of coaching team at the end of the season, it must be crippling for an All Black legend to see his side show such a lack of pride and passion. I hope he stays but he just seems to be tired and almost forced to say the corporate tripe every interview, about how he is proud and the boys are working great, and everything is hunky dory, blah blah blah, whilst his face tells a completely different story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/01/2018 10:12 by Ali1969.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 11:26
Quote:
Ali1969
I do not believe anyone is personally attacking Tarquin as a person, if they are without knowing him they should be embarrassed, however there is no denying he is responsible for the signing and re-signing of players and the day to day running of the club, therefore he is going to be responsible and to be fair whenever I have heard him speaking at meetings etc he has not helped himself.

+1

I'm guessing he's also partly responsible for appointing TB as head coach and that clearly hasn't worked either.

My main concern now is the retention of our top players such as Anthony Watson, is he really likely to want to stay beyond his current contract as he has little chance of winning trophies with Bath?



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 11:30
Sorry, Tarquin is the one responsible for player recruitment and retention, not say, a Director of Rugby?

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 11:48
The DOR will draw up a list of players they want to re-sign and feel they require but e money men are the ones who have the final say and deal with the negotiations.

Our DOR has made it very clear that he wanted Banners to stay, but the deal could not be struck as Dan Evans stated in the Chronicle it is such a shame their was no give or take or apparent willingness to meet half way.

Setting an ultimatum is never helpful in these cases.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 11:53
A Ben Kay article in The Times today discusses this topic and Banners move. It's a well written, thoughtful piece and his last sentence sums it up v well, "Loyalty, in most cases, is the preserve of fans, not players or coaches."...



Adopted players: 2017-18 T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 13:06
I've said this elsewhere but it applies here as well.

Swap Roko for Brew and we had out for at least a good chunk of the second half last night, what constitutes many peoples view of our best backline "You can't let Banners go, why isn't Freddie getting picked" etc. Bald truth is that backline was toothless and seriously outplayed by Scarlets so it needs to change. We aren't going to be able to do that unless we lose some players and bring in better. And that can't just mean getting rid of some cheap fillers like James Wilson (who'll be on peanuts) and signing a decent prospect as well as giving Banners a payrise that would probably have covered most of what Wilson gets paid.

Banners scored a great try last night - just. Had Brew been slightly luckier he'd have got the same trick down on the otherside. On the other hand, rightly or wrongly Banners has a reputation for being slow on the turn, which makes the sort of chip over that he scored from but also their wing scored against him a worthwhile thing to try. He's a lovely guy, who's given us great service, but he's not perfect and it remains possible in my mind that we may be able to do better for the available money given we already have two other big boshy wingers in Brew and Roko. I can also entirely understand that a team that doesn't have that option already and wants to add that to their squad might see more value than we do.

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 13:19
Quote:
WestonDave
I've said this elsewhere but it applies here as well.
Swap Roko for Brew and we had out for at least a good chunk of the second half last night, what constitutes many peoples view of our best backline "You can't let Banners go, why isn't Freddie getting picked" etc. Bald truth is that backline was toothless and seriously outplayed by Scarlets so it needs to change. We aren't going to be able to do that unless we lose some players and bring in better. And that can't just mean getting rid of some cheap fillers like James Wilson (who'll be on peanuts) and signing a decent prospect as well as giving Banners a payrise that would probably have covered most of what Wilson gets paid.
Banners scored a great try last night - just. Had Brew been slightly luckier he'd have got the same trick down on the otherside. On the other hand, rightly or wrongly Banners has a reputation for being slow on the turn, which makes the sort of chip over that he scored from but also their wing scored against him a worthwhile thing to try. He's a lovely guy, who's given us great service, but he's not perfect and it remains possible in my mind that we may be able to do better for the available money given we already have two other big boshy wingers in Brew and Roko. I can also entirely understand that a team that doesn't have that option already and wants to add that to their squad might see more value than we do.

+1. Excellently put!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 21:13
Very well written Westondave, much of which many of us agree with.

It is increasingly obvious on recent defeats, many of our squad are not up to top class, fast moving and thinking rugby and need to be replaced. That is not going to happen overnight, and probably would be too costly to buy in all new players so we need to develops some of our own and groom youngsters with potential.

It also means IMO to appoint a strong and influential on field captain who knows the game and had the courage to lead from the front and give stick and approbation when it is deserved. We truly have not had a decent on field captain since Andy Robinson or the great Jon Hall. Leadership is a valuable skill in itself, and how we have suffered by not finding a good one ourselves. IMO Garvey is not up to the task and he even struggles to get in the side if all our squad are available and fit. He is like a cart horse and has not produced anything of significance. Due to his lack of speed, his only position is second row but for that he needs to add muscle and bulk.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
13 January, 2018 22:18
I always thought Guy Mercer captained the side well.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 08:54
Quote:
Boldangrey
I always thought Guy Mercer captained the side well.

Do you mean as club captain, I dont think he was that on-field capatain very often.

On reflection I'm more pi$$ed off twith Banners leaving than I was initially

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 09:13
BOB,

You might have hit on something here, it's the continuing procession of powder puff captains:

Hooper, Mercer, and now Garvey (who needs muscle and bulk, the carthorse!)

Not to mention Ewels, tipped as a future captain

Hopefully Todd is reading this.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 09:19
Garveyís been one of our best and most consistent players for the last three or four seasons. Questioning his ability - captaincy skills or otherwise - is a new low, an insult to the player and the intelligent rugby chat that (occasionally) breaks out on these ere boards. Bore off.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 09:45
Don't like peeps blaming one player, and certainly not the Captain who always has a tricky role to play between mgt and the rest of his team mates.

Maybe just like anyone else he is having an out of form purple patch and a bit fed up at carrying out instructions with gameplans which don't seem to work!



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 11:23
Tarquin MacDonald appears to attract much more criticism than previous incumbents of his role simply because of his christian name, in my opinion.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 11:26
Never liked MacDonalds, myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2018 11:41 by Boldangrey.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 11:31
Quote:
@Hydor18
Tarquin MacDonald appears to attract much more criticism than previous incumbents of his role simply because of his christian name, in my opinion.

I think you have a point, for a short time i thought this was a joke along the lines of the prawn sandwich comments, then i realised it was his name

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 13:37
Quote:
@Hydor18
Tarquin MacDonald appears to attract much more criticism than previous incumbents of his role simply because of his christian name, in my opinion.

I think it's more the job he's doing and the way he comes across in season ticket holder events rather than his Christian name. Although that may not help.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 16:15
I'm not sure Woody gets your humour/sarcasm BnG, nevertheless keep at it, at the very least it amuses me!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 16:57
Quote:
shipwrecked
I'm not sure Woody gets your humour/sarcasm BnG, nevertheless keep at it, at the very least it amuses me!

If you mean on Mercer, you are right it went over my head BNG pointed this out

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 20:35
Quote:
shipwrecked
I'm not sure Woody gets your humour/sarcasm BnG, nevertheless keep at it, at the very least it amuses me!

(Sm157)

Cheers SW. Woody's on side!

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
16 January, 2018 22:38
Quote:
Bathovalballer
It also means IMO to appoint a strong and influential on field captain who knows the game and had the courage to lead from the front and give stick and approbation when it is deserved. We truly have not had a decent on field captain since Andy Robinson or the great Jon Hall. Leadership is a valuable skill in itself, and how we have suffered by not finding a good one ourselves. IMO Garvey is not up to the task and he even struggles to get in the side if all our squad are available and fit. He is like a cart horse and has not produced anything of significance. Due to his lack of speed, his only position is second row but for that he needs to add muscle and bulk.

Probably the stupidest thing you've posted in a long time. Ok, three days. The bit about Garvey is as ignorant as it is out of order.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
17 January, 2018 07:26
Also known as 'who is BoB going to blame given Ewels wasn't playing?'

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
17 January, 2018 08:29
Ewels seen casting spells over a simmering cauldron in the Sports Centre Car Park.


That must be the answer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/01/2018 08:30 by Boldangrey.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Banners to Glos
17 January, 2018 08:58
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Bathovalballer
It also means IMO to appoint a strong and influential on field captain who knows the game and had the courage to lead from the front and give stick and approbation when it is deserved. We truly have not had a decent on field captain since Andy Robinson or the great Jon Hall. Leadership is a valuable skill in itself, and how we have suffered by not finding a good one ourselves. IMO Garvey is not up to the task and he even struggles to get in the side if all our squad are available and fit. He is like a cart horse and has not produced anything of significance. Due to his lack of speed, his only position is second row but for that he needs to add muscle and bulk.

Probably the stupidest thing you've posted in a long time. Ok, three days. The bit about Garvey is as ignorant as it is out of order.

Quite simply too crowded a field to judge.

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