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Bath Bosch
BB (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:25
What cost us clearly was handling errors when under pressure and some pretty poor kicks from Burns. Scarlets just backed themselves and didn’t kick away possession.

We’ve got some unbelievably talented players but seem to loose concentration at key times either through panic or silly mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 22:27 by BB.

 
Rich.
Rich. (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:29
Quote:
Substitute
Well... We ending up having to try and out-Scarlet the Scarlets.
Which is strange because our backline should be able to play like that...

The main thing which allows Scarlets to do that is the attacking skill of their forwards. Very impressive team. We needed it to be chucking it down again. But they did the same away to Leinster and Munster at the end of last season so .........

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:31
Ball retention was as laughable as ever. Not ideal when you play the best counter-attacking team in Europe.

Totally schooled, there isn't one part of game to hang your hat on and be proud of. We offer nothing and are going nowhere.

Not suggesting getting rid of Blackadder, but I can't see him sticking around after his final year next season anyway. Edwards, Booth, Hooper... not good enough.

Fed up being outplayed at the Rec again and again, every single time.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:34
Quote:
ballsout
Ball retention was as laughable as ever. Not ideal when you play the best counter-attacking team in Europe.
Totally schooled, there isn't one part of game to hang your hat on and be proud of. We offer nothing and are going nowhere.

Not suggesting getting rid of Blackadder, but I can't see him sticking around after his final year next season anyway. Edwards, Booth, Hooper... not good enough.

Fed up being outplayed at the Rec again and again, every single time.

So.... what is the solution?

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:41
Think he still lives in Bath???? What's his job currently - apart from managing his property portfolio!



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
bathstigg
bathstigg (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:41
The tactics and strategy is the root problem we don’t play to our strengths and not having key players like Louw Faletau Atwood and Rocko has derailed our season.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:55
Mass changes will just lead to another year or so of building.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:57
Well folks what do we think of that? A game we should have won being at home outplayed by a side that simply ran on to the ball at pace and STRAIGHT, passes drawing a man and putting the outside man away. All the Scarletts showed what running and handling looked like, and wanted and could play at a pace we can only dream about. They competed at the rucks and mauls and usually out muscled us and got the ball away at speed.

Why do we not clear out rucks and compete?
Our ball handling and retention is some of the worst I have ever seen. We rarely take the ball on the run and some of our guys are just not good enough. They were found out by a good, fit and skillful side.

Mercer to be fair was one of the few who at least showed he could play at pace but butchered a try and gave away possession far too easily. I thought Underhill was excellent as was Stooke and Brew as usual. In Watson we have a diamond but can never work him into the open because our centre play and passing is so poor. Banners also showed he was not going to lie down without a fight unlike many others.

The rest should look at themselves long and hard and decide do they want to improve and how and when are they going to do anything about it.
Garvey was dreadful, and I watched him say and do nothing on the breaks in play, one stage he just stood on the wing watching yet another kick at our goal. When we stupidly substituted Stooke with him in the second row, our creaking scrum went backwards even faster.

Thomas also showed he is nowhere near top class, and Obono did ok against the excellent Lee.

Charteris should be pensioned off now. He contributed absolutely nothing.

Cook and Freddie tried hard but had slow ball to deal with and usually no support runners coming at pace.

JJ was also poor as was Tapuai who thought he could run through peoples legs, and lost the ball in contact.

A thoroughly depressing Bath display and the evening only enlivened by a side who can and are fit, fast and skillful enough to play proper rugby. In the end, their forwards were also bullying our pathetic players masquerading as forwards.

The one thing I know by going to the Rec at the moment, is that Bath haven't a prayer but at least I can witness how the game can and should be played.

For goodness sake Bath wake up and smell the coffee. Play the youngsters who might come good and dump the dross. We might take some hammerings (at our laughable fortress) but we might just learn and grow a side who want and can play and improve.

I spoke with some of the Scarlett fans who told me the best seats in the ground cost £220 per season, not the enormous amount we pay, and for what? Displays like that!

This game showed where we are and we are going to struggle to even get in the top 6 in the league, and forget any aspirations about playing and winning in Europe.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 22:58
If you ask me we should look very closely at the way we monitor the conditioning of our players. We've had two of the worst seasons imaginable on the injury front.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:03
Quote:
by
Mass changes will just lead to another year or so of building.

Better to build than go nowhere (at best) or backwards, which we presently are doing.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:04
“We knew what to expect and the performance was inexcusable. We played into their hands and, with qualification now a remote prospect, we have internal issues to address.”

Todd quoted in the grauniad. Hard to fault his analysis but I wonder what he is actually going to do.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
al Mossah
al Mossah (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:04
Let's at least admire Banner's try. That finish was unbelievable. We will miss him horribly next season, and I for one am seriously p*****d off that we are allowing him to leave.

Mercer tried too many off loads in the first half, but sorted it out for the 2nd, where he was very good.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:04
Scarletts had injury absences ss well. Thank god as the score would have been worse!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:10
We are inconsistent because our 9/10 partnership is so inconsistent, Cook was excellent last week but this week let Davis walk all over him!

Mercer and Underhill effectively wrote themselves out of 6N reckoning. Restarts were at last season levels.

Someone asked why we are going for Chudley (By perhaps) well for me he offers consistency, I also think that Fredy should get a run at 10 with RP out for a bit and 6N coming up.

But all in all Scarlets beat us up front, at halfback and the breakdown, they were very good. Good chance they will beat Toulon as well!

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:22
Quote:
joethefanatic
“We knew what to expect and the performance was inexcusable. We played into their hands and, with qualification now a remote prospect, we have internal issues to address.”
Todd quoted in the grauniad. Hard to fault his analysis but I wonder what he is actually going to do.

This alarms me, i wonder if he has lost the dressing room? I think he has lost me now. Can't remember the last time I came away from the Rec so fed up. A Scarlets fan shouting we effin 'ammered 'em in the bogs post match did not help. Fair play to them but what will TB do now? I'm losing faith tbh...



Adopted players: 2017-18 T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:22
Scarlets were very very good and Bath, as many times before this season, completely and utterly inept.

We must surely be close to the time where we ask ourselves whether another coach could get more from this set of players and whether another coach could communicate a coherent game plan to this set of players. I strongly suspect they could on both counts and it may be soon time for a change.

Pleasure to see this Scarlets team play despite the stuffing we got. Well played to them.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:30
Quote:
Clarkey3k
Can't remember the last time I came away from the Rec so fed up.

I can't remember the last time I walked away from the Rec impressed with how Bath played. Maybe Newcastle or Sale last season? A couple of individual bits of Roko magic to beat Sarries this year doesn't count.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 23:59 by ballsout.

 
hipster1676
hipster1676 (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:35
Shocking. So many topics- why was the previously superb Paul Grant only given 13 minutes? Underhill off the pace, not match fit.
Obano- totally committed but up against a top class tighthead
Dunn- poor guy plays 80 mins every week so must be shattered
Thomas- dreadful. Lahiff must start
Charteris- pension off
Stooke- gave his all
Garvey- ditto but does not show enough bite for a 6 and captain
Underhill- not fit
Zach- amazing for someone so young
Cook- worst performance I’ve seen from a Bath 9
Freddie- needs game time but will do us well
Taps- not his night and outplayed by opposite number
JJ- offered zero in attack. Jones will not have been impressed
Banners- will be sorely missed
Brew- at least he shows passion
Watson- wasted talent in a poorly coached back division

Wake up coaches, Bruce won’t put up with that dross for much longer

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
12 January, 2018 23:59
Tapuai's error count (Sm106)

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 00:15
W be certainly seen some cracking rugby at the Rec this season. Newcastle, Wasps, Glaws (in places), and Scarlets all very impressive. Must be something in the Bath turf that makes them play so well (Sm136)

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 00:16
Quins played well for 60 minutes too. And Benetton.

 
Mike van Vuuren
Mike van Vuuren (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 00:16
Sad, depressing, one week good, the next poor...as they say in Africa, ändiyazi" aka Ï don't know?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 00:47
[quote hipster1676]Shocking. So many topics- why was the previously superb Paul Grant only given 13 minutes? Underhill off the pace, not match fit.
Obano- totally committed but up against a top class tighthead
Dunn- poor guy plays 80 mins every week so must be shattered
Thomas- dreadful. Lahiff must start
Charteris- pension off
Stooke- gave his all
Garvey- ditto but does not show enough bite for a 6 and captain
Underhill- not fit
Zach- amazing for someone so young
Cook- worst performance I’ve seen from a Bath 9
Freddie- needs game time but will do us well
Taps- not his night and outplayed by opposite number
JJ- offered zero in attack. Jones will not have been impressed
Banners- will be sorely missed
Brew- at least he shows passion
Watson- wasted talent in a poorly coached back division

Wake up coaches, Bruce won’t put up with that dross for much longer[/quote)

Spot on. We should have started with the same team as last week with the exception of Banahan who we are going to miss massively. I don’t know who these wonder players are we are confident of signing for less money. Our centres were outplayed tonight & for an England starter JJ doesn’t do anything like enough in attack. For all Underhill’s endless tackling we achieved precious few turnovers & our error count & poor kicking was again a feature. Scarlets were really at the races from the start, really well drilled & focused whilst our players seemed dazed & unable to react, like the crowd.

 
Jeb01
Jeb01 (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 00:48
Same old Bath - soft underbelly. Need to toughen up but the same can be said for years now

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 01:57
Really we just need to be quicker witted. It became clear to all of us watching after about the 3rd minute how Scarlets were going to play and it was also clear that they were going to have "one of those nights" where everything just stuck. In those circumstances, you close the game down and wait for the storm to blow itself out. What you DON'T do is throw speculative off-loads, drop off tackles and kick aimlessly. The Scarlets were magnificent but our game management was absolutely abysmal.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
OldMarovian
OldMarovian (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 08:12
Quote:
shipwrecked
Mercer and Underhill effectively wrote themselves out of 6N reckoning.

You'd hope so but with Jones in charge and club form not mattering I won't be at all surprised to see Underhill feature in the 6 Nations.

Mercer a mix of good and bad but he looks to have serious potential. Watson is a joy to watch in attack and as long as we have two other good defenders in the back three he absolutely has to start for England.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 10:09
Quote:
joethefanatic
Really we just need to be quicker witted. It became clear to all of us watching after about the 3rd minute how Scarlets were going to play and it was also clear that they were going to have "one of those nights" where everything just stuck. In those circumstances, you close the game down and wait for the storm to blow itself out. What you DON'T do is throw speculative off-loads, drop off tackles and kick aimlessly. The Scarlets were magnificent but our game management was absolutely abysmal.
Game management. Spot on with those 2 words. Atwood was obviously both baffled and annoyed at h/t when he wondered why we were trying to play like them. I think the loss of RP early on was significant....we needed a cool head out there that would keep things simple and pin them back when required.


"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 10:19
[quote Toast and Marmite][quote joethefanatic] Atwood was obviously both baffled and annoyed at h/t when he wondered why we were trying to play like them. I think the loss of RP early on was significant....we needed a cool head out there that would keep things simple and pin them back when required.[/quote]

So we get back to the old criticism 'No plan B'.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 10:20
[quote Boldangrey][quote Toast and Marmite][quote joethefanatic] Atwood was obviously both baffled and annoyed at h/t when he wondered why we were trying to play like them. I think the loss of RP early on was significant....we needed a cool head out there that would keep things simple and pin them back when required.[/quote]

So we get back to the old criticism 'No plan B'.[/quote]Pretty sure that they weren't playing plan A tbh.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 10:25
"No plan B" is often trotted out. We don't play to any plan, that much is obvious.

 
ilovebathtime
ilovebathtime (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 10:54
I think a team that play with ambition and have the talent to do so, will almost always beat a team that play with little ambition regardless of the level of talent in the side. Time and again we ran out of numbers and were scrambling, which was inevitable. I think most teams ould have been in the same position. The problem was we weren't able to do the same because we play to a structure which is pretty easy to defend.

I think Attwood is wrong. We have to develop to play in the way that Scarlets do. We certainly on paper have the players to do so. Under Meehan and for a season under Ford we played that way and had a reasonable amount of success doing it. Every other season in recent memory has been at best inconsistent. Even if we lose at least it will be good to watch.

 
nick holder
nick holder (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 11:15
They were fantastic and you can see why they are pro 12 champs and leading their conference again this year. I am not sure why we thought that the 5th team in the prem, when there is only 1 outstanding team this year, could beat the pro 12 champs. Do we really think beating the 11th team in the prem after 2 dreadful performances before that was a change of fortune?
Unfortunately we just have to accept we are not very good and certainly not good enough to compete on Europe.
I still can't see a cohesive "style" and do wonder where it will all go once TB leaves once his 3 years are up. By now I would have hoped we would a clear view of how we play and how this can be developed by the next coach. Bit baffled really.
Hats off to scarlets they showed how the game can be played. Too many of our players just failed to make the step up from the prem to the next level.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 12:35
We were worse than poor in every department.

We were even outsung by the Scarlets choristers!
So you can even blame the ticket office for selling them tickets all together!

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 12:57
Left this alone overnight to avoid the swear filter having a meltdown.

2 things struck me out of last night.

1, give or take Cook vs Kahn and Roko for Brew, that toothless backline is what many people would call for as our first choice backs. Other than Freddie's chip over the top for Banners try (which Brew nearly got seconds earlier on the other side which stretched their defence away from Banners wing to be fair) and a few sharp runs from Watson we looked utterly lacking in threat from the backs. All we seem to do is head down and charge into the nearest defender, turn over the ball and then spend the next ten minutes trying to get it back. Its all well and good saying we have to keep Banners but we need to change something in that backline, and heresy as it might be to say it, we aren't going to improve by spending everything on the existing squad. Time to shift on some dead wood - Jeff Williams is another "untouchable" who hasn't actually delivered anything apart from being a nice bloke.

2. The style of rugby we seem to be aiming for, bosh, pick drive, bosh pick, pass bosh spill the ball is horrible to watch. Contrast that with Scarlets in a must win game trying to move the ball around and making all sorts of problems for us. If we're going to play ugly we better at least be winning because watching that and losing heavily is not what I'm interested in at £400 per season. We desperately need someone to replace Matson to coach some rugby into our players and with it the ability to make passes, catch and not kick everything away.

Grrr - not still been fuming this long after a match for years.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 13:17
Me too Weston Dave - it's taken me this long to even view the comments.

 
seatonian
seatonian (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 13:21
The last two home games should have taught the coaches a lesson. Have they learned? No. We have been taken to the cleaners by Wasps and Scarlets who have fast hard running backs. We have talented players who can perform at the required level. So why not? Answer is we have coaches who are nice guys but not good enough at this level. Toby Booth, Darren Edwards and Stuart Hooper are those in question. None of them have ever won anything of note and clearly do not know how to bring the best out of our players and particular the backs. I seem to remember that we have been building a team for a few years now but see not improvement. Tabs is being sorely missed. Banners was our best back last night and why we do not value him goodness only knows. He is worth a three year contract for his professionalism both on and off the pitch. Please Mr Craig sort this out. Bring in coaches before new players so we can see what our present guys can achieve. In addition why would any talented player want to come to a club who seem to be going nowhere and whose coaches would appear not to be able to bring the best out of them. Would not do their international aspirations any good. Had to get this off my chest!!!

 
VinceJ
VinceJ (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 14:01
Interesting interview with Todd in the Chron

Todd's interview

Three of his quotes:

“We’ve got to address some internal issues that we’ve got,” Blackadder said. “One of those is our inconsistency."

“We’re so inconsistent that it has to be mental and we have to address that. We’ve got to put a plan in place. We’ve got a sports psych coming on (board) but that’s not the excuse."

"When we were on the attack we threw silly offloads or got the ball ripped out of our arms, or we coughed the ball up at the breakdown and they capitalised on it.”

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
13 January, 2018 14:11
If we knew how they play, why did it take until the second half to tackle the man AND ball to stop their offloading game ripping us to shreds? If we can see it from the stands, surely the professionals on the pitch can see it and make the necessary changes on the fly? I think we miss a Borthers type leader, someone who’s playing week in week out, always communicating with the team and the Ref and a reader and reactor to what’s happening on the pitch right now.

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
14 January, 2018 18:28
Attendance 13,822.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why a game of this importance was not a sellout? Friday night?

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
14 January, 2018 18:36
Better than less than 8,300 at the Gardens........

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
14 January, 2018 22:47
Yep, but another Friday night game. And of course, they have been having a worse run of results than us - but now have had two wins at home. Its another Friday nighter when they visit us early next month - o joy!



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
terracehugger
terracehugger (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
14 January, 2018 23:28
Until we get quality at 9/10/12 we will go nowhere except down the league.
None of the current incumbents, and I mean none, have the skills needed to take the club forward. Journeymen at best, with most well passed their prime.
Also at the breakdown, why do we consistently commit 5 players against the 2 or 3 of the opposition? Dreadful coaching with the opposition always having 2 and 3 players free to either attack or defend.
Watched Racing v Munster. They would destroy us on present form, due to questionable coaching, no on field leadership and total lack of any game plan.
Heard a rumour today that we were interested in Twelvetrees! God help us!!!

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
15 January, 2018 10:08
Late to the thread, and we weren't great at all, but credit where credit's due, Scarlets were bloody fantastic on Friday night. I haven't seen a team attack like that at The Rec since Leinster a few seasons back. I also thought their defence was fantastic when we threw everything at them, trying to get back into the game.

They're Top 14 champs, outsiders for the competition according to some commentators, and delivered their best performance of the season (the best performance by anyone this season, according to the rugby writers) against our depleted team, shorn of so many of our stars.

I was disappointed by our performance, especially some of our individual play. I also thought that in hindsight we should've started Grant and Kahn. But we were unlucky to lose Rhys in minute 1 and we caught them on a very hot night.

We can now focus on the league, go all out for top 4 as the like of Attwood, Flouw, TF and Roko return to fitness. Onwards. And, on reflection, it was a joy to watch Scarlets play like that, even though at the time I hated the whole experience!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
15 January, 2018 15:31
I have to say that I am still reeling from the experience & not in a joyous way!

 
Barnoid
Barnoid (IP Logged)

Re: Bath v Scarlets
15 January, 2018 16:12
Full credit to their supporters as well; that was possibly the most vocal away support I've experienced at the Rec. Some of that may have been due to my proximity to it in the terrace, mind.

Furthermore, if anyone remains in any doubt, I believe we established over the course of the 80 minutes that Tadhg Byrne's current location is, in fact "everywhere" and that he hails from Kildare originally.

The more you know.

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