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by (IP Logged)

Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 14:37
Malco posted this on Facebook today - Hope you don't mind Malco but not everyone uses Facebook and I think its important that supporters read it.

Anyways seems to be a lot of unrest at the club and very enlightening with how some of the recent events could have unfolded.

Quote:
Malco
Iíve heard a few things from a trusted source associated with the club today that have left me feeling shocked. I have no reason to doubt they are true but obviously canít be 100 per cent, but it is a very reliable source who is close to several players. Apparently a number of players are very upset and angry about the way that contracts have been handled and certain players treated. What is really shocking though is that Iíve been told that Blackadder has played no part in choosing or contracting Broncan, Paz and Delmas. This has all been done at management level and Blackadder has had no input into these decisions whatsoever. He has also apparently asked to retain several of the players who are being released. The person has also said that the decisive factor in Matson leaving was that he was upset about what he perceived to be too much interference into on-field activities. By all accounts there is a problem with Hooper too. Players had thought they would be able to maintain their relationship with him as a peer, but he is now seen in some quarters as having gone over to the corporate side and no longer being trustworthy with personal matters. Apparently a number of senior players are angry enough to have been on the verge of speaking out about everything but are worried about the effect of it on their careers.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 14:49
Very troubling. If there really was a problem in house I would prefer it to come out simply so that there is a greater chance of it being dealt with. The last thing we want is to lose senior players because of problems which are simply swept under the rug.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 14:53
Itís brilliant isnít it. The moment I post anything on here myself I get scorn and abuse hurled at me from the small army of know-nothing angry cretins who have nothing but anger and hate to convey. So I post elsewhere and the next thing I know is that itís appearing here anyway without me. Ballsout will be turning up here in t-minus 30 seconds and counting to suggest I read it in the Daily Mail, Annie will accuse me of ďwilly wavingĒ, Dan will blame it on brexit and BBW will call me Tory @#$%&. Iíll then react by calling them rude things and Stuart will then appear saying that nothing has changed and itís typical of how everything is my fault in the first place.

Sod the lot of you.

 
MESSAGES->author
roywalker (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 14:58
I guess he did mind...

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 14:59
Quote:
malco
Itís brilliant isnít it. The moment I post anything on here myself I get scorn and abuse hurled at me from the small army of know-nothing angry cretins who have nothing but anger and hate to convey. So I post elsewhere and the next thing I know is that itís appearing here anyway without me. Ballsout will be turning up here in t-minus 30 seconds and counting to suggest I read it in the Daily Mail, Annie will accuse me of ďwilly wavingĒ, Dan will blame it on brexit and BBW will call me Tory @#$%&. Iíll then react by calling them rude things and Stuart will then appear saying that nothing has changed and itís typical of how everything is my fault in the first place.
Sod the lot of you.

You need help. Please ditch the victim card, it doesn't suit you.

The only one who spouts vile abuse towards others, is you. You do it very, very often. It's nasty stuff. If you can't deal with a bit of heated chat then I've no idea how you lasted one month in a forward pack, let alone however long you played (please don't enlighten me, I don't care).

Quote:
I get scorn and abuse hurled at me from the small army of know-nothing angry cretins who have nothing but anger and hate to convey.

http://i2.wp.com/www.votersopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Extreme-Irony.gif



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 24/01/2018 16:04 by ballsout.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 15:07
Oh look, the cretin-in-chief sprints in to prove my point. Not busy with anything today then? Thereís a surprise.

Go on, add something intelligent to the original post. People are waiting...and have been for several years now.


Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
malco
Itís brilliant isnít it. The moment I post anything on here myself I get scorn and abuse hurled at me from the small army of know-nothing angry cretins who have nothing but anger and hate to convey. So I post elsewhere and the next thing I know is that itís appearing here anyway without me. Ballsout will be turning up here in t-minus 30 seconds and counting to suggest I read it in the Daily Mail, Annie will accuse me of ďwilly wavingĒ, Dan will blame it on brexit and BBW will call me Tory @#$%&. Iíll then react by calling them rude things and Stuart will then appear saying that nothing has changed and itís typical of how everything is my fault in the first place.
Sod the lot of you.

You need help. Please ditch the victim card, it doesn't suit you.

The only one who spouts vile abuse towards others, is you. You do it very, very often. It's nasty stuff. If you can't deal with a bit of heated chat then I've no idea how you lasted one month in a forward pack, let alone whoever long you played (please don't enlighten me, I don't care)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 15:18
Malco, I presume you find this a very serious issue. If that's the case, I'd suggest you drop your current line because a thread on what I think is quite serious you've made it all about you and somehow started abusing people before the people you accuse have even posted.

I'm sure you don't want my advise, but seriously, don't post on this thread til you've calmed down. When you have calmed down, re-read your first post from the point of view of a third person and ask yourself if it is reasonable behaviour.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 15:29
I'm not entirely sure that the club have got this wrong (if this information is correct).

Reasoning is, it's been suggested that Ford controlled contracts previously and developed a very small squad of highly paid big names (as was his choice). When Ford left, we were in a horrible place where the depth just wasnt there to compete well. Removing the responsibility for contract talks from the DOR will allow the club's management to regain some level of control they may well feel is necessary (esp. After the alleged cap breaches during Ford's time). That is necessarily a bad thing.

What is, is Todd not having a say in who we bring in to the club. That seems off - I can't believe that is right. It would be very surprising.

Salmon



Adopted Player 18-19: Anthony Perenise
Adopted Player 17-18 & 16-17: Dave Attwood
Adopted Player 15-16: Matt Garvey



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/01/2018 15:50 by BathSalmon.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 15:31
In many ways I wish I had not read this article but I am not totally surprised by its content.

Not surprised to read about Hooper as I know an ex player who was definitely not a fan of him! If I recall correctly, he allegedly told George about his Dad going and look how that ended up.

As for Todd not being able to choose which players he wants and a coaching colleague is madness to me if true and will drive away the one guy we really need to keep to get some long term playing continuity and plans into place. Without it we will just be a side in development again.

If Todd isn't making the player decisions, who is? Is it just Tarquin filling a space in the squad with a name who comes within his bottom line and, with due respect, where does he get the name from? Who is in this Management team/group? I have a feeling Mr Hooper may have more input than we might think!

Matson's decision to go home for family reasons was obviously right and expected as anyone would. But I always thought it could be possible he returned as and when things were resolved, but if the above is true, explains why his departure appears permanent.

If this is true about player unrest, it might help explain our very patchy at best form on the field. There are times when players are not running support lines or getting involved in rucks and mauls as other sides do. Teams have built their games on supporting and running for each other where as we often appear to be a bunch of individuals.

This possible player unrest is no doubt part of the fall out from Banners going (as we appeared to be close on the money) and why we appear to struggle to attract new talent.

Also, I honestly believe the seemingly tight management control is due in part to the Mike Ford situation. Tarquin has been charged to ensure we do not have a situation ever again where the DOR/coach acts like a god doing what he likes, eg always playing his son, offering a player like Eastmond a huge salary, ignoring and upsetting other players, and therefore decisions are confined to a very select chosen few, who have little regard to the running of a rugby club, more to providing a tight financial control.

If all this is true, and certainly we all can see things on the field our obviously not right, it is a very sad but not totally unexpected situation which is not going to be resolved easily or overnight. I fear there is an element of truth in what Malco writes and certainly if trust has been lost, it is very serious indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/01/2018 17:32 by Bathovalballer.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 15:33
Management interference in on field matters, surely not!

No idea if Malco's original comment has any credibility, but it would explain our continued failure to progress.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:03
Quote:
malco
Oh look, the cretin-in-chief sprints in to prove my point.

Oh look, Malco can't seem to look into a mirror, as if to prove my (and everyone else's) point.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:10
I have also heard of serious unrest at the club, so this latest article comes at no surprise to me at all. Not good.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:12
I donít need to look in the mirror. I didnít post on here and I have no interest in wasting my time on you or any of the other witless cretins who infect this place and besmirch Bath Rugby. Sad for all the great supporters caught in it. My advice to all of you is get yourselves over to the Facebook page. Better conversation, no cowardly morons.

Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:14
(Sm22)

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:22
Totally confused now!

If Todd has little or no control over signings then the whole direction of Bath Club Rugby is aimless, doesn't matter what the plan is but anyone coming to the club has to buy into that plan.

If TM left because of interference what chance is there that TB will extend.

If TB can't retain the players he wants we are wasting all the training that has been put into these players and diluting the team ethos.

It begs the question who is signing players and on what basis?

As for Hooper who knows, its unrealistic to expect him to stay as 'one of the lads' but does this mean he now can't coach effectively?

Are we to believe this?

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:23
Quote:
malco
Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

So you post an article on a medium that is capable of being re-posted by anyone that reads it, and is, and then complain when someone re-posts it? Hardly the fault of the moderators.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:28
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
malco
Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

So you post an article on a medium that is capable of being re-posted by anyone that reads it, and is, and then complain when someone re-posts it? Hardly the fault of the moderators.

I post my content where I choose to. If you want to use my content at least ask me first. If somebody had asked me first I would normally have no problem. Based on how I get treated by members of the peanut gallery I am not happy to be taken for granted in this way and then made the target of more abuse.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:32
Quote:
malco
I donít need to look in the mirror. I didnít post on here and I have no interest in wasting my time on you or any of the other witless cretins who infect this place and besmirch Bath Rugby. Sad for all the great supporters caught in it. My advice to all of you is get yourselves over to the Facebook page. Better conversation, no cowardly morons.
Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

I know that you are annoyed, but will you please stop using the word 'cretin' Malco? Its really quite offensive given that it refers to congenital hypothyroidism all that comes with it?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 16:39
Quote:
malco
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
malco
Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

So you post an article on a medium that is capable of being re-posted by anyone that reads it, and is, and then complain when someone re-posts it? Hardly the fault of the moderators.

I post my content where I choose to. If you want to use my content at least ask me first. If somebody had asked me first I would normally have no problem. Based on how I get treated by members of the peanut gallery I am not happy to be taken for granted in this way and then made the target of more abuse.

But it's social media Malco that's the whole point!

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 17:04
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
malco
I donít need to look in the mirror. I didnít post on here and I have no interest in wasting my time on you or any of the other witless cretins who infect this place and besmirch Bath Rugby. Sad for all the great supporters caught in it. My advice to all of you is get yourselves over to the Facebook page. Better conversation, no cowardly morons.
Message to mods. If you want to use my content without checking with me then expect to be invoiced for it. Itís how I earn my living.

I know that you are annoyed, but will you please stop using the word 'cretin' Malco? Its really quite offensive given that it refers to congenital hypothyroidism all that comes with it?

Asking Malco to stop throwing vile abuse at other people is pointless, he can't help but be offensive, it's in his nature.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 17:06
Out of interest. Why does Tarquin get labelled with everything that is going wrong with our signings and contract talks, when clearly we have a "Head of Player Recruitment" - David Thompson on our staff?

Would that not suggest he is the key figure in all this and not Tarquin?

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 17:08
Well I am not on Facebook so happy to read the story, sorry if you have taken offence Malco, I understand your point of view.

Let's concentrate on the content and leave the squabbles out of it everyone.

I agree with most of BoBs post too, assuming the original content is accurate. However I do think this is easily fixed, we just need Todd to be involved in the recruitment again, quite simple and quick to do. Some apologies thrown in too.

I see this at work myself, managers who think they know best and fail to get a consensus before making a big decision.

It seems remarkable if this is true, don't wish to doubt Malco it just seems common sense that Todd states needs and the purse strings are pulled if we are in danger of over running the cap. Not rocket science.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 17:32
I agree that the DoR should be in almost full control when it comes to player recruitment and retention, I can see that someone, at some point, might have to say "sadly (maybe) we're not Toulon." To be honest, its a huge part of what a DoR does.

I don't buy that this has changed between Ford and Todd either. Mike seemed to want a smallish squad, we'd had a smallish squad for years, it wasn't a new thing. But surely that's something that's got to be discussed between the DoR and finance people. Frankly, it would be a good question to ask when considering new DoRs "What's you're take on squad size and balance?" You don't go " we didn't agree with the last guy's policy, therefore you can't have an opinion."

Other than the squad size, I don't think our recruitment and retention with Ford was that bad. Burgess, obviously, but I'm sure I read that WASN'T Ford's idea and that weirdness with Kyle. Other than that there wasn't much wrong with the quality or consistency of our squad during Ford's time. To take all his successors power away based on that seems wrong.

 
southgate
southgate (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 17:55
I have also heard of unrest( it came from a chiefs supporter).He also said Todd won't be hear next season.If all this is true then I'm getting very cheesed off with what is happening at the club.
I have been a season ticket holder for 11 yrs not long compared to some but long enough and I feel that this may be the beginning of the end for me as a season ticket holder and more dramatically the club in its present form.I hope I'm wrong on both accounts but I'm just fed up lurching from one crisis to another.
I won't be going this Saturday as to be honest i can think of better things to do .
I will email the club my thoughts but doubt I will get a reply.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 18:02
This story is highly disturbing.

It also seems credible, not only because Malco's sources have often proven accurate before, but also the evidence before our eyes on the pitch and what can be read between the lines in some Chronicle reports. I have also heard a few murmurings at matches from people with family contacts to the squad.

As for the mudslinging, please calm down everybody. Slagging each other off will not improve the club's situation.

Trading verbal blows also buries a lot of interesting or informative comment.

PG



P G Tips



Alex Davies: my adopted Player, 2018-19.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 18:25
A number of things havenít made sense - departures of players for no compelling reason, Tapuai, Autorac & several others, not being able to agree terms with a player who is rightly regarded as important to the club - Banahan, talk about Faletau not renewing, injuries on a ridiculously excessive level, failing to adequately complete the squad in the summer, Matson suddenly leaving & not being replaced, massive fluctuations in form from one match to the next etc.etc.etc. On the other hand, we are progressing with the stadium development & despite adverse comments Tarquin seems on top of his brief & they are having plenty of question & answer sessions with supporters. Todd, whilst unhappy with certain performances, seems fairly relaxed & positive. Also, thereís no reason why Bruce would want to jeopardise the future of the Club at such a time & he has a good record of running things. All very puzzling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/01/2018 18:27 by Bath Hammer.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 19:03
What the F. Why are we perennially so pathetically drama-ridden? If people are @#$%& in dark corners there is no hope; trust is the number one priority in any organisation, let alone an industry where you roll out for a fight every Saturday. Sort it out Bath.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 19:16
Any DOR worth his salt would surely walk out if he has no control of which players are signed and who is retained.

If the DOR really has no part to play in the squad makeup at Bath then we will never progress to be competitive.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 19:33
If itís true that players and coaches are being recruited without TBís involvement then that would be extremely serious.

But there seems to be some contradiction here. If Management are distant, as is claimed by comments about Hooper, how do players know what involvement TB has had in player recruitment? Has he told them? Seems unlikely that he would undermine his own authority by doing so.

Itís contract time, several players have not renewed or been offered a renewal - a level of @#$%&-offness is to be expected. But players donít necessarily know whatís going on at Management level.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 20:27
What are the chances the when Toddy doesn't renew his contract Hooper gets an elevated role?

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 22:17
Sad to read of more turmoil at Bath. But,it explains some of the issues and challenges that seem to crop up too regularly.

Was considering dropping my ST after many years primarily because of the Friday night games, but this adds grist to the mill, and has made my mind up all bar the shouting.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
24 January, 2018 23:41
Firstly, Bath Rugby is a business. Bizaarely though, we want to treat it like the NHS i.e. we doing badly, we need more money. If I was Bruce, having recruited a high reputation DoR and some very expensive players I'd be disappointed with the returns. I'd change my approach.

There will be a lot of players who will have benefited from the previous eras and I imagine they are resistant to any change in salary structure.

Add to that our poor performances and you've got the making of a frustrated squad and frustrated ownership. It's a cliche but it needs strong leadership - I don't think we have it anywhere in our structure. That worries me.

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 00:12
Is it just me or is anyone else wondering why someone would put out a post like the one quoted on Facebook? Are they hoping to achieve anything by it?

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 00:25
I find the above comment by Malco hard to believe as it would be extraordinarily stupid/odd.

However I am sure Malco is repeating comments in good faith

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 00:33
Plus the fact that it is tentatively supported by a couple of posts above. However, the original post does paint a peculiar picture of the club.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 01:42
Who is on this management committee for deciding player recruitment and retention and what are their roles or expertise?

If I was Bruce and about to spend millions on a new stadium and was aware of this situation, I believe I would be asking some very pointed questions, wanting some positive results and probably instigating another independent review of the club and its operation, as the first one doesn't appear to have resolved many of the ongoing situations.

I am truly perplexed and saddened to read such things of our club as I really thought the review report would form the foundation and basis for some overall improvements and we could really look forward to a brighter more positive future.The removal of a coach who lacked man management abilities and his replacement by TB who came with as good a cv as any, and a fresh pair of eyes with no preconceived ideas on the players was IMV a great step forward. However, things are still not equitable and much of those initial hopes appear in tatters although it is possible these recent events are still the effects of the findings of the first review.

I am truly saddened we appear to be still lurching from one crisis to another with no obvious end in sight and it is testing the resolve of many more long term supporters than me.

C'mon Bath wake up and Bruce please get a grip and quickly.

 
Devonport Boy
Devonport Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 07:57
And if I were Bruce Iíd be wondering why Iím continuing to provide millions of pounds to underwrite and develop the Club when an element of the supporter base is prepared on a regular basis to construct allegations of mismanagement on the flimsiest of grounds. Itís unworthy.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 08:33
Reflecting on this overnight and comparing it to my world.

In any situation where people have to "be let go" it causes upset and concern.......even if in their heart of hearts the concerned people know it is the right thing to do.

It is tough but if you are trying to improve the overall quality of the squad, AND STAY WITHIN THE SALARY CAP, then some people will have to leave.

I am certainly not saying that the recruitment team (whoever that is.......but I am incredulous if TB is not involved in that) will get everything right but if they if they are trying to do what I say above then one would expect them to get at least 75% right.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 09:19
"And if I were Bruce Iíd be wondering why Iím continuing to provide millions of pounds to underwrite and develop the Club when an element of the supporter base is prepared on a regular basis to construct allegations of mismanagement on the flimsiest of grounds. Itís unworthy."

If the cost of Bruce's millions is that we can't even speculate on whether things aren't right at the club then I'm not sure I want them. If that's the case, the club has then become his play thing and we're just the people who fund it because, actually, between tickets, The RFU, TV and other advertising its OUR millions that primarily fund the club.

I don't know if there's anything in this, I'd agree that the idea the DoR has -no- say is dubious. The club does seem to be be in a not entirely happy place, this isn't the only such rumour I've heard, we can see on the pitch we're less than the sum of our players and with the players that are coming in vs those going out, there's something to be discussed.

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 09:45
The suggestion is that Blackadder has had no say in the appointments of Broncan, Delmas and Paz. Not that he has no say in general. It seems clear that Blackadder tells the management what players he wants to keep, what players he wants to release, what players he wants to bring in and what general positions he wants to fill. The management team then negotiates the contracts. I think this is a sensible way to structure the business. The management knows what cap is available and how to make best use of it. Blackadder focuses on rugby. The worrying bit for me is if it is true that Blackadder has not been involved in bringing in Broncan, Delmas and Paz.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/01/2018 09:46 by malco.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 09:47
I join in the speculation like everyone else but we seem to be taking this post from a guy whose mind doesnít always seem to be in the right place rather at face value. Itís true that a couple of others have endorsed the view but that can always happen. As I said in my previous post a lot of unsatisfactory things have happened ibut some good things are also happening as well. Also, the Club is very willing to have QA sessions with supporters & keep us informed about injuries unlike the past. This doesnít mean everything is perfect but the doom & gloom scenario is hopefully an overstatement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 25/01/2018 09:49 by Bath Hammer.

 
EddieDillsworth
EddieDillsworth (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:01
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Who is on this management committee for deciding player recruitment and retention and what are their roles or expertise?

As Bath Salmon notes, David Thompson is listed on the website as being Head of Player Recruitment. He's been at the club since November 2012 and was a full-back with Saracens.

 
Tom Sutton
Tom Sutton (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:01
Quote:
Devonport Boy
And if I were Bruce Iíd be wondering why Iím continuing to provide millions of pounds to underwrite and develop the Club when an element of the supporter base is prepared on a regular basis to construct allegations of mismanagement on the flimsiest of grounds. Itís unworthy.

+1 Well said DB

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:03
Is Broncan definite as I seem to have missed the announcement?

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:23
Quote:
malco
The suggestion is that Blackadder has had no say in the appointments of Broncan, Delmas and Paz. Not that he has no say in general. It seems clear that Blackadder tells the management what players he wants to keep, what players he wants to release, what players he wants to bring in and what general positions he wants to fill. The management team then negotiates the contracts. I think this is a sensible way to structure the business. The management knows what cap is available and how to make best use of it. Blackadder focuses on rugby. The worrying bit for me is if it is true that Blackadder has not been involved in bringing in Broncan, Delmas and Paz.

Just guessing here but could it be that without TM to head up the coaching the club think Todd's time is best spent overseeing on the training ground rather than some of the more traditional DoR activities such as planning and recruitment. OK, I am clutching at straws. Haven't found one yet.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:39
Just as "team spirit is an illusion glimpsed in the aftermath of victory", as the saying goes, so discord is an exaggeration glimpsed in the aftermath of a loss.

There's not an organisation in the world - sports, business or other - that doesn't carry frustrations, malcontents, the aggrieved, the told-you-sos, the gossipers and the outcasts who want their resentments validated.

What I see is a Club that has improved the matchday experience immeasurably in the last 3-4 years; is forging ahead with probably the most difficult development project even the most experienced of their team has ever encountered - that could, conceivably make the Rec one of the world's most iconic sporting venues; that won 4/6 CC games; that is 2 points off the 3rd-placed Club and just 5 points ahead of 9th in the most brilliantly competitive premiership I've ever seen; has an opportunity to go into a semi-final after this weekend; is supplying plenty of players to England. What's not to like?

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:42
Quote:
Bath Hammer
I join in the speculation like everyone else but we seem to be taking this post from a guy whose mind doesnít always seem to be in the right place rather at face value.

What is that supposed to mean?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:44
I'd guess its a reference to the nature your posts in this thread, and others.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 10:50
Malco seems to be now rowing back furiously - this whole thing is now reduced to a "suggestion" and the level of being shocked is now down to a "worrying bit if it is true"

Anything tangible to back up some pretty serious allegations which as several posters above have indicated could be easily attributed to other very rational and normal explanations?

If not then leave the wild speculation to likes of the tabloids - just backs up my view of Facebook and reasons not to use it

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 11:09
To me this seems like someone telling all X and Y 's marriage is in trouble. It doesn't help X and Y and you would have to ask why are you telling me this? The old adage you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time applies equally to Bath. The question of who knew what about who and when will probably never be answered.
Oh and by the way there is a game on Saturday.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 11:13
Would you not expect the members of X and Y's family to discuss problems in their marriage? Should their kids not be interested? I really don't like the way people are separating the fans from the club like its none of our business. At the end of the day its ALL about us.

"Oh and by the way there is a game on Saturday."

Great, start a thread on it.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 11:51
Quote:
malco
The suggestion is that Blackadder has had no say in the appointments of Broncan, Delmas and Paz. Not that he has no say in general. It seems clear that Blackadder tells the management what players he wants to keep, what players he wants to release, what players he wants to bring in and what general positions he wants to fill. The management team then negotiates the contracts. I think this is a sensible way to structure the business. The management knows what cap is available and how to make best use of it. Blackadder focuses on rugby. The worrying bit for me is if it is true that Blackadder has not been involved in bringing in Broncan, Delmas and Paz.

What happened to "sod the lot of you" ?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 11:55
The entire point of a DoR as opposed to a Head Coach os to take managerial responsibility for playing matters - providing oversight of all aspects, from academy, through medical, Strength and Conditioning, and recruitment (with an input on contract negotiations, but probably not overseeight).
If Todd isn't doing this, then he's not a DoR, but "just" a head coach; and if he were brought in to be a head coach alongside Matson being another head coach, then whoever made that decision needs to be fired.
I strongly suspect that this simply isn't the case (not that I doubt Malco has heard this, but I doubt that the information is accurate). It may be that he's removed himself entirely from contract negotiations currently given my point below, and the risk of toxicity with individual players.



As for players being dissatisfied... We play in a salary capped league.
2 years ago we were employing 34 players within a £6.5M cap => average wage of £203k + 2 Marquees
At the beginning of thos season, we were employing 45* players within a £7M cap => average wage of £162k + 2 Marquees

So in an environment where salaries are reducing 20% across the board - how happy do we expect everyone to be? Do we really expect everyone to stay? To be happy with their offer? To be happy about how hard the club negotiate?
The figures above are, under the assumption that we spent up to (but not over) the cap both this year, and in 2015/16. Of course, there are also persistent rumours/accusations from elsewhere that we spent more in 2015-16 and/or that we have had our cap reduced in 2016-20 as punishment for the previous overspend. I happen not to believe those rumours, hence I've assumed that we've spent up to the cap.



* Not including the likes of GMercer, Andrews, Noguero-Paz, Vuna here for <1/2 the season; also discounting the 2 Max.s signed from Leeds on the assumption that they've got academy contracts currently.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 25/01/2018 12:01 by Which Tyler.

 
robhumperson
Humpo (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:00
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Who is on this management committee for deciding player recruitment and retention and what are their roles or expertise?

David Thompson, Bruce & Tarquin MacDonald as far as I'm aware, which played - apparently - a big role in Tabs deciding not to come back.

It's quite sad how consistently and frequently we make poor decisions as a club, or manage to @#$%& things up.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:02
For one I am sot surprised it has been obvious that there issues I have said that TB cuts a demoralized figure and he has made numerous statements in relation to retaining players who have been allowed to leave Banners being the most notable.

A few posters on here have reacted when I and others have insinuated that Tarquin and his money men were interfering and had the final say in relation to players - Malcos comments appear to bsck st up,

Perhaps the posters who were so quick to rebuts myself and others might want to comment.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:07
Quote:
Optimist
Just as "team spirit is an illusion glimpsed in the aftermath of victory", as the saying goes, so discord is an exaggeration glimpsed in the aftermath of a loss.
There's not an organisation in the world - sports, business or other - that doesn't carry frustrations, malcontents, the aggrieved, the told-you-sos, the gossipers and the outcasts who want their resentments validated.

What I see is a Club that has improved the matchday experience immeasurably in the last 3-4 years; is forging ahead with probably the most difficult development project even the most experienced of their team has ever encountered - that could, conceivably make the Rec one of the world's most iconic sporting venues; that won 4/6 CC games; that is 2 points off the 3rd-placed Club and just 5 points ahead of 9th in the most brilliantly competitive premiership I've ever seen; has an opportunity to go into a semi-final after this weekend; is supplying plenty of players to England. What's not to like?

+ 1 I think that during this transfer period there is also the uncertainty factor causing some of these rumours. Not forgetting a lot of fans were bitterly disappointed with the Banas decision. I know on Twitter that Banas' brother is quite open in his distaste of Bruce as a result.

I would be extremely surprised that TB has been told that these are the players and coach he has to work with and he hasn't had a say. If this was the case I am surprised he hasn't walked! Surely his contract must give him carte blanche in recommending players he needs to the money men.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:08
Okay I am possibly one of the younger people on here and despite reading for a long time have not been a long time contributor to posts so I suspect my comment will be ignored to a certain degree BUT with that said..

Please can we all stop slagging each other off on here with petty personal attacks and digs. We are use this or facebook and other mediums because we have a common interest in place which is the support of the same professional rugby outfit. People's sources can be excellent and things still not come true and vice versa with poor sources but things do come true. Everything in this sense then is speculation and we only really find out what the club wants us to when it is officially announced or rejected!

To this end I appreciate everything that is posted on here regardless of how true or not it may be as if nothing else it provides us with things to talk about and post opinions on - which as far as I am aware, was kind of the point of this site??



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight; 2018-19 Jonathan Joseph

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:23
I'm one of them Ali, but mostly pointing out that those who were letting rip specifically at Tarquin as the source of everything wrong with the club had (and still don't) have the evidence to back it up and it just seemed like blaming anyone whenever there's a sense of malaise (see those who blame 'immagruntz' for all societal ills yet the facts don't back it up).

Malco's FB post seems to imply that non-Todds are the ones making all of the decisions, but his subsequent non-rant posts have back tracked a little. My main point, as echoed above is that you can't have a DoR who isn't involved in player recruitment and retention otherwise they are not a DoR and I can't see anyone willing to play puppet in this regard - it is a fundamental part of being a DoR and one of the reasons we appointed Geech in an oversight role and Gary Gold - they were seen as the players' people who had the contacts and charisma for just this role.

That's not to say Tarquin (or Bruce) aren't involved, we do after all happen to be governed by a salary cap which I think half of the board are all to happy to ignore when it comes to fantasy signings and "chuck money at player X". Please remember the spotlight that was on us only 2 seasons ago, whether we were in breach or not, we must manage this ruthlessly or the consequences 'next' time would be very serious.

It may very well be the case that they are too involved - hence the claim of discontent. But, the perspective Malco gives is one from an unidentified source at the club. What if it was a relative of a player who has or will soon be leaving us despite wanting to stay? Their perspective is likely to be at a different end of a spectrum compared to say a relative of a player who's graduated to a senior contract or who has had a big pay rise for playing incredibly well the previous season.

Ultimately, I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between. It's quite feasible that the "money men" have too much influence beyond "here's your budget, spend as you wish", rumours of Bruce's hands on involvement in the running of his/our club have persisted since day one. But again, without much in the way of substantiation.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:25
There's nothing wrong with posting rumours or bits of insider info or even 'bloke down the pub said...'. Christ, what a message board for?

Does everything said here have to verifiable in court?

No wonder this place is dead at times......



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:25
Very well put Big Dog. I agree this is a forum for all points of view and opinions, and one should be able to express them and not be subject to personal attack and ridicule. Every one is different and sees things differently, which IMO makes this site such an interesting read.

Obviously some people like Malco have a better insight to the club through their network of contacts but most of us have some acquaintances who are 'in the know' and I for one are very pleased to hear what is being said. I am not saying the information is always gold plated but there is often an element of truth attached to it.

As a long term supporter I wish to encourage all those with such info to come forward and not be afraid of being ridiculed or insulted. Without such input the forum would not be worth much and prove deadly dull.

 
Sir Redneck
Sir Redneck (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 12:30
[quote gaz59]Malco seems to be now rowing back furiously - this whole thing is now reduced to a "suggestion" and the level of being shocked is now down to a "worrying bit if it is true"

Anything tangible to back up some pretty serious allegations which as several posters above have indicated could be easily attributed to other very rational and normal explanations?

If not then leave the wild speculation to likes of the tabloids - just backs up my view of Facebook and reasons not to use it

I'm a member of the Bath Rugby Supporters Facebook group, and to be honest, there's very little between 'here and there' regarding rumours and speculation. However IMVHO, there's way more bickering and personal insults on COML.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/01/2018 13:21 by Sir Redneck.

 
BathHalfFull
BathHalfFull (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 13:16
Well said Big Dog. As a long time but relatively infrequent poster on here I wish people would put their pitchforks down and give Malco a break. Yes he can sometimes react to provocation but i think most people would if they were being roundly attacked by a number of posters. I for one am glad for his input on here, even if it is rumours he's passing on, there is often merit to them. Plus with this one, everything points to it being more than a small number of disgruntled people. Oh and if Bruce gets upset by fans on a forum who are concerned about the way OUR club is run (we were here before him and will be here after him) then I hope he addresses the issue.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 13:42
Quote:
BathHalfFull
Well said Big Dog. As a long time but relatively infrequent poster on here I wish people would put their pitchforks down and give Malco a break. Yes he can sometimes react to provocation but i think most people would if they were being roundly attacked by a number of posters. I for one am glad for his input on here, even if it is rumours he's passing on, there is often merit to them. Plus with this one, everything points to it being more than a small number of disgruntled people. Oh and if Bruce gets upset by fans on a forum who are concerned about the way OUR club is run (we were here before him and will be here after him) then I hope he addresses the issue.

I think that some people need to read the thread again from the top - from the 'I hope that you don't mind but this is interesting' OP to the third mouth foaming, bile spewing post which contained language that has been completely unacceptable for decades.

 
Knipm
Knipm (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 13:46
I have to admit I had heard exactly that reason for TMís departure back when he left. The publicised family reasons had helped me to think/ hope it wasnít true but yes, seconded.

 
BathHalfFull
BathHalfFull (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 13:54
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
BathHalfFull
Well said Big Dog. As a long time but relatively infrequent poster on here I wish people would put their pitchforks down and give Malco a break. Yes he can sometimes react to provocation but i think most people would if they were being roundly attacked by a number of posters. I for one am glad for his input on here, even if it is rumours he's passing on, there is often merit to them. Plus with this one, everything points to it being more than a small number of disgruntled people. Oh and if Bruce gets upset by fans on a forum who are concerned about the way OUR club is run (we were here before him and will be here after him) then I hope he addresses the issue.

I think that some people need to read the thread again from the top - from the 'I hope that you don't mind but this is interesting' OP to the third mouth foaming, bile spewing post which contained language that has been completely unacceptable for decades.

I'm a particular fan of passive aggression so thanks for that. The baiting of Malco goes way back, well beyond this thread. I've genuinely no idea how long you've been coming to these pages so forgive me if you weren't aware of the history but it is to that which i was referring rather than one or a few recent threads that are the culmination of years of unpleasantness and sniping.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:00
Quote:
BathHalfFull
I've genuinely no idea how long you've been coming to these pages so forgive me if you weren't aware of the history but it is to that which i was referring rather than one or a few recent threads that are the culmination of years of unpleasantness and sniping.

Visiting for a while (not posting for that long because of the arguments) and I totally agree with the bickering / hatred angle but in this case it was a massive overreaction from a genuine post by By IMO.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:10
Sorry, post one of this thread appears to me pretty respectful of malco. Post two doesn't related to malco at all. Post 3 is malco coming on and pouring abuse at people who haven't even posted.

I can't see anyone who has got a pitch fork out for him, at worst there's some fairly mild ribbing by BO.

I haven't read much about malco on here since he last ironic tirade of abuse.

In what way are we not giving him a break?

 
malco
malco (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:11
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
BathHalfFull
I've genuinely no idea how long you've been coming to these pages so forgive me if you weren't aware of the history but it is to that which i was referring rather than one or a few recent threads that are the culmination of years of unpleasantness and sniping.

Visiting for a while (not posting for that long because of the arguments) and I totally agree with the bickering / hatred angle but in this case it was a massive overreaction from a genuine post by By IMO.

No it wasn't. I have chosen not to post on this website any more. Because there is nothing of any news value here and all the fun banter went when all the fun people were driven out by the unpleasant cabal who spend their tiny little live here.

But then I discover that stuff I choose to write elsewhere has been copied and posted here without anybody having the courtesy to even mention it to me, and I decide that rather than be abused in my absence, as has happened a lot over the last few months, I will take the initiative.

This website is dead. This thread proves the point. How many people have decided to debate the original post and how many to gleefully embark on their favourite @#$%& contest? I have no interest in being here. Facebook has a far higher standard of discussion and the people who post do so under their own names and are therefore polite and respectful to each other.

It's quite simple. If this website leaves me alone, I will leave this website alone. You are welcome to each other.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:30
Quote:
Optimist
Just as "team spirit is an illusion glimpsed in the aftermath of victory", as the saying goes, so discord is an exaggeration glimpsed in the aftermath of a loss.
There's not an organisation in the world - sports, business or other - that doesn't carry frustrations, malcontents, the aggrieved, the told-you-sos, the gossipers and the outcasts who want their resentments validated.

What I see is a Club that has improved the matchday experience immeasurably in the last 3-4 years; is forging ahead with probably the most difficult development project even the most experienced of their team has ever encountered - that could, conceivably make the Rec one of the world's most iconic sporting venues; that won 4/6 CC games; that is 2 points off the 3rd-placed Club and just 5 points ahead of 9th in the most brilliantly competitive premiership I've ever seen; has an opportunity to go into a semi-final after this weekend; is supplying plenty of players to England

By far and away the most intelligent contribution for a long time, thank you Opti

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:36
Quote:
DanWiley
Sorry, post one of this thread appears to me pretty respectful of malco. Post two doesn't related to malco at all. Post 3 is malco coming on and pouring abuse at people who haven't even posted.
I can't see anyone who has got a pitch fork out for him, at worst there's some fairly mild ribbing by BO.

I haven't read much about malco on here since he last ironic tirade of abuse.

In what way are we not giving him a break?

Yes Dan, the same thing happens every time:

Malco appears
Ballsout pokes him with a stick
Malco goes ballistic
Some people say that the treatment of malco is beyond the pale

Pause, (between 5 minutes and a year) repeat

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:43
"his thread proves the point. How many people have decided to debate the original post and how many to gleefully embark on their favourite @#$%& contest?"

I'd say about 2/3rds of this thread relates to the original post. I'd guess it would have been about 95% or higher had you not posted, or at least made your point in a reasonable way.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:45
I'd say this is a variation:

A quote from Malco appears
Malco goes ballistic
Ballsout pokes him with a stick
Malco goes ballistic
Malco goes ballistic
Malco goes ballistic

Some people say that the treatment of malco is beyond the pale

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Unhappiness within the club
25 January, 2018 14:48
OK, closing this thread. If people wish to open another thread discussing or speculating upon the happiness levels or otherwise of the club they're free to do so. If people wish to discuss the strengths and weaknesses or individuals sources, please take it to Private Message or another medium.

For future information - accepted netiquette of posting information from other sources is as follows:

1. Attribute source
2. Provide link
3. Quote selectively, not in full

In terms of abusing other posters, please don't do it - and this goes for everyone. The moderators have no desire to ban anyone. You're adults, we expect you to behave like adults and as so we'll continue to treat you as such.


This Thread has been closed
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